Trump is expected to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital and move the US embassy

[abi]

Israel gained political control of Jerusalem when the Jordanians abandon it. They already had effective control.

They took it in war which a war crime with no statute of limitations.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Israel gained political control of Jerusalem when the Jordanians abandon it. They already had effective control.

They took it in war which a war crime with no statute of limitations.

LOL!

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Trump is expected to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital and move the US embassy
※→ abi, et al,

Does this even answer any question?

Who does it harm if the US recognizes that the Knesset in located in Jerusalem?
Who does it hurt if the US recognizes that the Prime Minister's Office is in Jerusalem?
Who does it hurt if the US recognizes that the Ministry of foreign affairs is no Jerusalem?

The entire non-zionist world. Jerusalem is not even part of Israel. It never has been.

(COMMENT)

Of course Jerusalem was not part of Israel... Israel has only existed since 1948.

• The city of Jerusalem wasonce under the control of King David. Do we not recognize that King David, name sake for the City of David (later Jerusalem) became the capital of the United Kingdom of Israel.​

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_of_Israel
BUT, this ancient history only goes as evidence to the historic connection that the Allied Powers used in the goal of establishing a Jewish National Home.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[abi]

Of course Jerusalem was not part of Israel... Israel has only existed since 1948.

Thank-you.

Attention zionists: read the above.

• The city of Jerusalem wasonce under the control of King David. Do we not recognize that King David, name sake for the City of David (later Jerusalem) became the capital of the United Kingdom of Israel.
BUT, this ancient history

And some would call it biblical nonsense.

Edit: May I add that to my sig?

 

[Coyote]

RE: Trump is expected to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital and move the US embassy
※→ Coyote, et al,

Well, this is not equivalent to the reality; the Arab Palestinians have impaired relationship with reality.

The Palestinians were collectively punished by Israel for going outside the negotiation process and directly to the UN to gain recognition ( a recognition apparently denied them by many on this board who refer to them as just Arabs). Now Israel has gained Jerusalem OUTSIDE a negotiation process and are being supported for it.

(COMMENT)

Israel gained political control of Jerusalem when the Jordanians abandon it. They already had effective control.

What point is there to negotiations? What do the Palestinians have to gain and how can the US ever be considered a good faith broker again?

(COMMENT)

There has been a standing invitation to open talks between the Israelis and the Arab Palestinian quasi-Government since the Oslo Accord. The is especial true if the Arab Palestinians call it under the dispute resolutions process. That has been available for almost a quarter century. And the Quartet has been around for more than a decade. The United Nations (UN), the European Union (EU), the United States (US) and Russia. Under it Mandate, the Quartet principle mission was to help support statehood for the Palestinians, and support negotiations for regional peace. The Palestinian made it abundantly clear that all t wants is the money funneled n by the Donor Nations.

Oddly enough! The Quartet very often meets in Jerusalem where their offices are located.

What will happen to the Palestinians remaining in East Jerusalem? Will the defacto process of steadily pushing them out accelerate? The grossly uneven development between Jewish and non Jewish sectors? Jerusalem has long been a multi ethnic and multi cultural city important to multiple faiths.

(COMMENT)

The longer the Arab Palestinians resist the Peace Process, the more precarious their situation becomes.

The parties to any dispute, the continuance of which is likely to endanger the maintenance of
international peace and security, shall, first of all, seek a solution by negotiation, inquiry, mediation,
conciliation, arbitration, judicial settlement, resort to regional agencies or arrangements, or other
peaceful means of their own choice. (Article 33, Para 1, UN Charter)​

Time is on the side of the Israeli's.

Most Respectfully,
R

It sounds like the Palestinians would be better off going directly to the UN rather than negotiating with Israel which has not acted in good faith in regards to settlements or a two state solution under Netanyahu.

 

[Coyote]

actually, when I was in Jordan, they were very happy to have peace with Israel. they said it was great for tourism. given that most of Jordan's economy is a service economy, that is very good for them. I can't speak for anyone else, but my tour guide hated the pals... he said they were bad for business and try to take over everywhere they've ever lived.... and that's why Jordan doesn't want them and didn't want them when Transjordan was split up.

I'll also point out that Jordan has a 98% literacy rate which might be part of why they're more reasonable than some of their neighbors.

I have also been to Jordan. And like many poor Palestinians, they are happy to have peace, or want peace. Then we have the Palestinian leaders and King Abdullah who has lately been doing the opposite of what he needs to do out of fear of what the opposition in the country is about.

Both Egypt and Jordan are basically a double sword.

We signed a Peace treaty but they can't help themselves about following the Muslim Jihadist ideology.

Sooner than later, one can only hope.

if there are greater tensions now, one might also consider the far-right policies of Netanyahu which seemed to be at least half of the stressor.

Which policies are you speaking about?

you think Netanyahu isn't far right?

how about starting with settlements? that is designed to piss off everyone.

I simply asked which, out of the many policies you disagreed with.

Jews have every right to "settle" on their ancient homeland of Judea and Samaria.

You may have forgotten this part, but, Jews were living continuously on the land for over 3000 years, when in 1925 Jews were expelled from their ancient homeland of TransJordan to accommodate the Hashemite Arabs.

Then, in 1929, the Jews of Hebron were attacked and expelled from their ancient home, which had once been also the capital of Israel.

Then....in 1948....the same Hashemites who already took 78% of Jewish homeland, took all of Judea and Samaria and the JEWISH quarter of Jerusalem.
The Hashemites did not invade or expel occupants of any of the other three quarters. NO ONE asks why.

So, if according to the Oslo Accords, Jews were given the right to keep the areas where they were living (that would be 1993 - 95) in Judea and Samaria, expanding only within area C, then what is truly the issue with Jewish settlements, which did not exist in 1995 or before?

Please remember this:

Jihadist Muslims are naturally pissed off at Jews. It is what they learn from birth.
It drives them crazy that Jews got the better of them and are sovereign over ANY amount of land they once conquered.

As long as many continue to dismiss what Islam stands for, any and all conflicts with Muslims will continue.

His settlement policies.

 

[Coyote]

When will the temple be rebuilt in Jerusalem???

That is the goal of the Christian Zionists here in the USA and why they support making all of Jerusalem, east and west, Israel's, isn't it?

The temple has to rebuilt according to Pastor Hagee or the left behind fictional books.... in order for Christ to return... the antichrist has to have the balls to walk in to the Temple of God and proclaim himself to be god.....then Armageddon, the tribulation or great tribulation??? Oh and somewhere in that time period, there has to be an Israeli 7 year peace agreement....before Armageddon

So, is there plans to rebuild the Temple once Israel controls all turf??? Is that what this is really about, even for the Orthodox Jew and not just the Christian fundamentalists???

Inquiring minds want to know

I don’t think that is Israel’s goal beyond a handful of religious extremists.

 

[rylah]

Of course Jerusalem was not part of Israel... Israel has only existed since 1948.

Thank-you.

Attention zionists: read the above.

• The city of Jerusalem wasonce under the control of King David. Do we not recognize that King David, name sake for the City of David (later Jerusalem) became the capital of the United Kingdom of Israel.
BUT, this ancient history

And some would call it biblical nonsense.

Edit: May I add that to my sig?

Yes the Torah and other Jewish books are ok when attempting to discredit Israel.
But apparently it's "nonsense" when used to support Israel.

Ugly hypocrisy.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Trump is expected to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital and move the US embassy
※→ abi, et al,

Well, it wasn't exactly that way.

Israel gained political control of Jerusalem when the Jordanians abandon it. They already had effective control.

They took it in war which a war crime with no statute of limitations.

(COMMENT)

Who did the Israelis take Jerusalem from?

Once you answer this question simply --- the more clear the answer.

​

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Sixties Fan]

The Czech Republic and Hungary have broken ranks with the European Union on President Trump’s recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, the EuObserver reported this week. Czech president Milos Zeman on Thursday announced: “[Trump’s decision] makes me truly happy […] We may, sooner or later, follow the United States.”

Both countries refused to endorse the EU’s statement that was going to express “serious concern” on the part of the entire organization of states. As a result, the statement was issued only by the EU foreign affairs chief Federica Mogherini.

(full article online)

Czech Republic, Hungary, Consider Moving Embassies to Jerusalem | The Jewish Press - JewishPress.com | David Israel | 20 Kislev 5778 – December 8, 2017 | JewishPress.com

 

[Sixties Fan]

EXECUTIVE SUMMARY: The PA and Hamas are hopeful that unorganized Palestinian youth will mobilize against President Trump’s declaration acknowledging that Jerusalem is Israel’s capital. A groundswell from the streets would preclude the necessity for the two organizations to actively take the lead. However, the readers of al-Quds, the Palestinian silent majority, are loath to sacrifice their sons on behalf of the warring factions.

(full article online)

Reading Palestinian Responses to Trump’s Jerusalem Declaration

 

[P F Tinmore]

 

[Hollie]

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Trump is expected to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital and move the US embassy
※→ abi, et al,

Well, this is only part of the story.

Israel gained political control of Jerusalem when the Jordanians abandon it. They already had effective control.

They took it in war which a war crime with no statute of limitations.

(COMMENT)

Article 8 (War Crimes), Rome Statutes (RS), International Criminal Court (ICC) went into force in 2002. It is embryonic 21st Century Law, conceived in the latter part of the 20th Century, but no wholly endorsed until the early party of the 21 Century.

Article 24 RS ICC
Non-retroactivity ratione personae

1. No person shall be criminally responsible under this Statute for conduct prior to the
entry into force of the Statute.

2. In the event of a change in the law applicable to a given case prior to a final judgement,
the law more favourable to the person being investigated, prosecuted or convicted
shall apply.​

So, we must be talking about Article 49(6), Fourth Geneva Convention (GCIV)(Deportations, Transfers, Evacuations): [BTW: The GCIV is NOT a War Crime (Criminal Code), but is International Humanitarian Law (IHL)].

• The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies.​

Israel claimed Jerusalem as "eternal and undivided" (how ever that applies and what it means Israel annexed East Jerusalem in 1980. This annexation did not challenge Article 47, Fourth Geneva Convention (Inviolability of Rights)

ARTICLE 47 GCIV

Protected persons who are in occupied territory shall not be deprived, in any case or in any manner whatsoever, of the benefits of the present Convention by any change introduced, as the result of the occupation of a territory, into the institutions or government of the said territory, nor by any agreement concluded between the authorities of the occupied territories and the Occupying Power, nor by any annexation by the latter of the whole or part of the occupied territory.​

Article 47 does not actually prohibit annexation of Occupied Territory. It says that Annexation does not deprive the people (protected persons) under occupation the "benefits of the present Convention" (GCIV).

(THE END of OCCUPATION)

More to the application of Article 47, impacts the a methodology towards "How to End Occupation." Once any territory is Annexed by the Occupation Power, that action marks the End of that Occupation.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Sixties Fan]

The Secretary General of the Kuwaiti Democratic Forum, Bandar Al-Khairan, stressed the support of the Kuwaiti people to Palestine, and that Jerusalem is an Islamic Christian Arab city.

Spokeswoman Lulwa Mulla condemned the American decision, considered it null and void, and stressed that Jerusalem will remain a Muslim Arab Christian city.
When speaking in English, the Arab critics of Trump's move are careful to talk about the importance of Jerusalem to all three major monotheistic religions, and how Muslims and Jews lived in harmony in Palestine for centuries before Zionism, and other soothing liberal-sounding phrases.
But listen to them in Arabic and the idea that Jews have any connection or right to live in Jerusalem is simply not acceptable. It is an Islamic and Christian, and always Arab, city.

(full article online)

Speaking in Arabic, Arabs agree there is no place for Jews in Jerusalem ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News

 

[Sixties Fan]

The extraordinary UN debate over The US recognition of Jerusalem was indeed extraordinary. Never has this council been convened over the actions of one state recognizing the capital of another, something with is in every other example in history a pretty benign decision.

But some of the speeches made at the debate indicate that the UN is still schizophrenic as to the actual legal status of Jerusalem.

When it comes to the areas to the east of the Green Line, it is considered "occupied Palestinian territory."

But when it comes to the west of the same line, it is still not considered Israeli. In that case it is "corpus separatum" - a completely separate territory that was envisioned as an international city under UNGA 181, which was never implemented.

(full article online)

UNSC debate indicates that "west Jerusalem" is an international city, "east Jerusalem" is "Palestinian" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News

 

[Sixties Fan]

 

[Sixties Fan]

Islamic war cries heard as antisemitism runs free on the streets of London

 

[Sixties Fan]

 

[Sixties Fan]

What Jerusalem is is the capital of Israel, both as the ancestral Jewish homeland and the modern nation-state. When Richard Nixon became the first American president to visit the country in 1974, he attended his state dinner in Jerusalem. It’s where President Anwar Sadat of Egypt spoke when he decided to make peace in 1977. It’s what Congress decided as a matter of law in 1995. When Barack Obama paid his own presidential visit to Israel in 2013, he too spent most of his time in Jerusalem.

So why maintain the fiction that Jerusalem isn’t the capital?

The original argument, from 1947, was that Jerusalem ought to be under international jurisdiction, in recognition of its religious importance. But Jews were not allowed to visit the Western Wall during the 19 years when East Jerusalem was under Jordanian occupation. Yasir Arafat denied that Solomon’s Temple was even in Jerusalem, reflecting an increasingly common Palestinian denial of history.

Would Jews be allowed to visit Jewish sites, and would those sites be respected, if the city were redivided? Doubtful, considering Palestinian attacks on such sites, which is one of the reasons why it shouldn’t be.

The next argument is that any effort by Washington to recognize Jerusalem as Israel’s capital would set the proverbial Arab street on fire and perhaps lead to another intifada.

But this misapprehends the nature of the street, which has typically been a propaganda tool of Arab leaders to channel domestic discontent and manipulate foreign opinion. And it also misrepresents the nature of the last intifada, which was a meticulously preplanned event waiting for a convenient pretext (Ariel Sharon’s September 2000 walk on the Temple Mount) to look like a spontaneous one.

(full article online)

Opinion | Jerusalem Denial Complex