Trump is expected to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital and move the US embassy
- Thread starter Jroc
- Start date
The Palestinians were collectively punished by Israel for going outside the negotiation process and directly to the UN to gain recognition ( a recognition apparently denied them by many on this board who refer to them as just Arabs). Now Israel has gained Jerusalem OUTSIDE a negotiation process and are being supported for it.
What point is there to negotiations? What do the Palestinians have to gain and how can the US ever be considered a good faith broker again?
What will happen to the Palestinians remaining in East Jerusalem? Will the defacto process of steadily pushing them out accelerate? The grossly uneven development between Jewish and non Jewish sectors? Jerusalem has long been a multi ethnic and multi cultural city important to multiple faiths.
Sixties Fan
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There is an Accord called Oslo. Negotiations were to be started and some were. Unfortunately the Arabs cannot come to accepting Peace with Israel as Jordan and Egypt did.
Jordan and Egypt were in financial dire. So, they chose peace.
Never mind that their education system continues to cry for the death of Israel and Jews.
Are you discounting the Oslo Accords as the Palestinian leaders have?
Do you know what would happen to any Arab leader who will sign a peace treaty with Israel and put an end to the Arab-Israel conflict?
Do you think that Arafat did not know what would happen to him had he signed the Camp David Accord?
Do you think he had not already planned not to sign and start the Intifada with any excuse ?
Now, as the Jordanians kept the JEWISH quarter of Jerusalem to themselves for 19 years, as well as what is the most ancient Jewish land, Judea and Samaria, and they did not care to give even one duma to any other Arabs, much less start the process to create another Palestinian State for non Hashemite Arabs, and on top of THAT, non of the Arabs living in Gaza or Judea and Samaria cared to demand such a State from the Hashemites.......
Why in the world does one assume that any part of Jerusalem belongs to the Arabs (Palestinians or not)? Or Judea and Samaria?
Wasn't Arafat offered 95% of all of the "West Bank" with "East Jerusalem" as their capital?
Wasn't Abbas offered 98%, with the same capital?
Then why do you think either one rejected the offer?
Why did the Jews accept a State on only 20% or less of what was to be given to them by the Mandate for Palestine, but the Arabs cannot accept the 78%, plus Gaza, plus what two Israeli PMs offered them?
jillian
Princess
actually, when I was in Jordan, they were very happy to have peace with Israel. they said it was great for tourism. given that most of Jordan's economy is a service economy, that is very good for them. I can't speak for anyone else, but my tour guide hated the pals... he said they were bad for business and try to take over everywhere they've ever lived.... and that's why Jordan doesn't want them and didn't want them when Transjordan was split up.
I'll also point out that Jordan has a 98% literacy rate which might be part of why they're more reasonable than some of their neighbors.
Sixties Fan
Diamond Member
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I have also been to Jordan. And like many poor Palestinians, they are happy to have peace, or want peace. Then we have the Palestinian leaders and King Abdullah who has lately been doing the opposite of what he needs to do out of fear of what the opposition in the country is about.
Both Egypt and Jordan are basically a double sword.
We signed a Peace treaty but they can't help themselves about following the Muslim Jihadist ideology.
Sooner than later, one can only hope.
jillian
Princess
I have also been to Jordan. And like many poor Palestinians, they are happy to have peace, or want peace. Then we have the Palestinian leaders and King Abdullah who has lately been doing the opposite of what he needs to do out of fear of what the opposition in the country is about.
Both Egypt and Jordan are basically a double sword.
We signed a Peace treaty but they can't help themselves about following the Muslim Jihadist ideology.
Sooner than later, one can only hope.
if there are greater tensions now, one might also consider the far-right policies of Netanyahu which seemed to be at least half of the stressor.
Sixties Fan
Diamond Member
- Mar 6, 2017
- 73,419
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Which policies are you speaking about?I have also been to Jordan. And like many poor Palestinians, they are happy to have peace, or want peace. Then we have the Palestinian leaders and King Abdullah who has lately been doing the opposite of what he needs to do out of fear of what the opposition in the country is about.
Both Egypt and Jordan are basically a double sword.
We signed a Peace treaty but they can't help themselves about following the Muslim Jihadist ideology.
Sooner than later, one can only hope.
if there are greater tensions now, one might also consider the far-right policies of Netanyahu which seemed to be at least half of the stressor.
jillian
Princess
Which policies are you speaking about?I have also been to Jordan. And like many poor Palestinians, they are happy to have peace, or want peace. Then we have the Palestinian leaders and King Abdullah who has lately been doing the opposite of what he needs to do out of fear of what the opposition in the country is about.
Both Egypt and Jordan are basically a double sword.
We signed a Peace treaty but they can't help themselves about following the Muslim Jihadist ideology.
Sooner than later, one can only hope.
if there are greater tensions now, one might also consider the far-right policies of Netanyahu which seemed to be at least half of the stressor.
you think Netanyahu isn't far right?
how about starting with settlements? that is designed to piss off everyone.
Sixties Fan
Diamond Member
- Mar 6, 2017
- 73,419
- 12,717
- 2,290
I simply asked which, out of the many policies you disagreed with.Which policies are you speaking about?I have also been to Jordan. And like many poor Palestinians, they are happy to have peace, or want peace. Then we have the Palestinian leaders and King Abdullah who has lately been doing the opposite of what he needs to do out of fear of what the opposition in the country is about.
Both Egypt and Jordan are basically a double sword.
We signed a Peace treaty but they can't help themselves about following the Muslim Jihadist ideology.
Sooner than later, one can only hope.
if there are greater tensions now, one might also consider the far-right policies of Netanyahu which seemed to be at least half of the stressor.
you think Netanyahu isn't far right?
how about starting with settlements? that is designed to piss off everyone.
Jews have every right to "settle" on their ancient homeland of Judea and Samaria.
You may have forgotten this part, but, Jews were living continuously on the land for over 3000 years, when in 1925 Jews were expelled from their ancient homeland of TransJordan to accommodate the Hashemite Arabs.
Then, in 1929, the Jews of Hebron were attacked and expelled from their ancient home, which had once been also the capital of Israel.
Then....in 1948....the same Hashemites who already took 78% of Jewish homeland, took all of Judea and Samaria and the JEWISH quarter of Jerusalem.
The Hashemites did not invade or expel occupants of any of the other three quarters. NO ONE asks why.
So, if according to the Oslo Accords, Jews were given the right to keep the areas where they were living (that would be 1993 - 95) in Judea and Samaria, expanding only within area C, then what is truly the issue with Jewish settlements, which did not exist in 1995 or before?
Please remember this:
Jihadist Muslims are naturally pissed off at Jews. It is what they learn from birth.
It drives them crazy that Jews got the better of them and are sovereign over ANY amount of land they once conquered.
As long as many continue to dismiss what Islam stands for, any and all conflicts with Muslims will continue.
Toddsterpatriot
Diamond Member
Do you think that Arafat did not know what would happen to him had he signed the Camp David Accord?
His fellow Arabs would have fucked him up the ass? Errrr.....never mind.
I simply asked which, out of the many policies you disagreed with.Which policies are you speaking about?I have also been to Jordan. And like many poor Palestinians, they are happy to have peace, or want peace. Then we have the Palestinian leaders and King Abdullah who has lately been doing the opposite of what he needs to do out of fear of what the opposition in the country is about.
Both Egypt and Jordan are basically a double sword.
We signed a Peace treaty but they can't help themselves about following the Muslim Jihadist ideology.
Sooner than later, one can only hope.
if there are greater tensions now, one might also consider the far-right policies of Netanyahu which seemed to be at least half of the stressor.
you think Netanyahu isn't far right?
how about starting with settlements? that is designed to piss off everyone.
Jews have every right to "settle" on their ancient homeland of Judea and Samaria.
You may have forgotten this part, but, Jews were living continuously on the land for over 3000 years, when in 1925 Jews were expelled from their ancient homeland of TransJordan to accommodate the Hashemite Arabs.
Then, in 1929, the Jews of Hebron were attacked and expelled from their ancient home, which had once been also the capital of Israel.
Then....in 1948....the same Hashemites who already took 78% of Jewish homeland, took all of Judea and Samaria and the JEWISH quarter of Jerusalem.
The Hashemites did not invade or expel occupants of any of the other three quarters. NO ONE asks why.
So, if according to the Oslo Accords, Jews were given the right to keep the areas where they were living (that would be 1993 - 95) in Judea and Samaria, expanding only within area C, then what is truly the issue with Jewish settlements, which did not exist in 1995 or before?
Please remember this:
Jihadist Muslims are naturally pissed off at Jews. It is what they learn from birth.
It drives them crazy that Jews got the better of them and are sovereign over ANY amount of land they once conquered.
As long as many continue to dismiss what Islam stands for, any and all conflicts with Muslims will continue.
This post reminded me of an article that goes back to 2003. It deals with Arab-Moslem Death Cult “yutes” who put together a model of what paradise which awaits the suicide bomber/mass murder.
I’d suggest reading the entire article. It’s a bracing look at what derives from a death cult mentality that values death more than life.
Maof - Palestinian students recreate paradise to show what awaits "martyrs"
Palestinian students recreate paradise to show what awaits 'martyrs'
By Mohammed Daraghmeh
May 10, 2003
Plastic trees, goldfish swimming in a generator-powered fountain, posters of the dead on the wall: This is a model of the paradise Islamic militants say awaits those killed in fighting with Israel, including suicide bombers.
The display at the West Bank's largest university, An Najah, was assembled by supporters of the violent Hamas group who said they wanted to raise students' morale after 31 months of fighting with Israel.
The university – a hotbed of Palestinian nationalism and a Hamas stronghold – said it officially opposes bombings but didn't want to stifle the students' views.
Those wishing to enter the room housing paradise had to walk through a candlelit passage with 26 mock graves. Each "grave" contained a green shroud and a photo of one of 26 An Najah students killed in the conflict with Israel, including six suicide bombers.
Stairs from the open graves led down into the paradise section. A small generator pumped water through a fountain into a channel where goldfish swim. Brightly plumed green and yellowbirds chirped in cages suspended from plastic trees. The floor was strewn with soft sand and plastic flowers. Pictures of the bombers and quotes from the Quran, the Islamic holy book, covered the wall.
Paradise also was air-conditioned, a telling contrast to the sweltering summertime West Bank. Hundreds of students filed through the exhibit, some returning again and again. An Najah University would not permit the exhibition to be photographed.
Feeling sick to your stomach yet?
P F Tinmore
Diamond Member
- Dec 6, 2009
- 86,406
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- 1,815
Good question. The basic framework of the negotiations is for the Palestinians to negotiate away their inalienable rights.
The general consensus is to quit negotiating and push for your rights.
You therefore support the Israelis and their right to defend themselves from Islamic terrorists.
Are you are saying the Palestinians have no right to inhabit any part of Jerusalem despite an historical presence to the contrary?
What does this diversion have to do with Jerusalem?I simply asked which, out of the many policies you disagreed with.Which policies are you speaking about?I have also been to Jordan. And like many poor Palestinians, they are happy to have peace, or want peace. Then we have the Palestinian leaders and King Abdullah who has lately been doing the opposite of what he needs to do out of fear of what the opposition in the country is about.
Both Egypt and Jordan are basically a double sword.
We signed a Peace treaty but they can't help themselves about following the Muslim Jihadist ideology.
Sooner than later, one can only hope.
if there are greater tensions now, one might also consider the far-right policies of Netanyahu which seemed to be at least half of the stressor.
you think Netanyahu isn't far right?
how about starting with settlements? that is designed to piss off everyone.
Jews have every right to "settle" on their ancient homeland of Judea and Samaria.
You may have forgotten this part, but, Jews were living continuously on the land for over 3000 years, when in 1925 Jews were expelled from their ancient homeland of TransJordan to accommodate the Hashemite Arabs.
Then, in 1929, the Jews of Hebron were attacked and expelled from their ancient home, which had once been also the capital of Israel.
Then....in 1948....the same Hashemites who already took 78% of Jewish homeland, took all of Judea and Samaria and the JEWISH quarter of Jerusalem.
The Hashemites did not invade or expel occupants of any of the other three quarters. NO ONE asks why.
So, if according to the Oslo Accords, Jews were given the right to keep the areas where they were living (that would be 1993 - 95) in Judea and Samaria, expanding only within area C, then what is truly the issue with Jewish settlements, which did not exist in 1995 or before?
Please remember this:
Jihadist Muslims are naturally pissed off at Jews. It is what they learn from birth.
It drives them crazy that Jews got the better of them and are sovereign over ANY amount of land they once conquered.
As long as many continue to dismiss what Islam stands for, any and all conflicts with Muslims will continue.
This post reminded me of an article that goes back to 2003. It deals with Arab-Moslem Death Cult “yutes” who put together a model of what paradise which awaits the suicide bomber/mass murder.
I’d suggest reading the entire article. It’s a bracing look at what derives from a death cult mentality that values death more than life.
Maof - Palestinian students recreate paradise to show what awaits "martyrs"
Palestinian students recreate paradise to show what awaits 'martyrs'
By Mohammed Daraghmeh
May 10, 2003
Plastic trees, goldfish swimming in a generator-powered fountain, posters of the dead on the wall: This is a model of the paradise Islamic militants say awaits those killed in fighting with Israel, including suicide bombers.
The display at the West Bank's largest university, An Najah, was assembled by supporters of the violent Hamas group who said they wanted to raise students' morale after 31 months of fighting with Israel.
The university – a hotbed of Palestinian nationalism and a Hamas stronghold – said it officially opposes bombings but didn't want to stifle the students' views.
Those wishing to enter the room housing paradise had to walk through a candlelit passage with 26 mock graves. Each "grave" contained a green shroud and a photo of one of 26 An Najah students killed in the conflict with Israel, including six suicide bombers.
Stairs from the open graves led down into the paradise section. A small generator pumped water through a fountain into a channel where goldfish swim. Brightly plumed green and yellowbirds chirped in cages suspended from plastic trees. The floor was strewn with soft sand and plastic flowers. Pictures of the bombers and quotes from the Quran, the Islamic holy book, covered the wall.
Paradise also was air-conditioned, a telling contrast to the sweltering summertime West Bank. Hundreds of students filed through the exhibit, some returning again and again. An Najah University would not permit the exhibition to be photographed.
Feeling sick to your stomach yet?
They have a right to defend themselves.
RoccoR
Gold Member
RE: Trump is expected to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital and move the US embassy
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
Why?
(COMMENT)
Who does it harm if the US recognizes that the Knesset in located in Jerusalem?
Who does it hurt if the US recognizes that the Prime Minister's Office is in Jerusalem?
Who does it hurt if the US reconizes that the Ministry of foreign affairs is no Jerusalem?
To not recognize the reality would demonstrate a psychological denial, refusing to believe an uncomfortable truth.
All the pro-Palestinians have to do is pretend that the US did not recognize Jerusalem as the Capitol. After all, the pro-Palestinians pretend that there are no borders; yet complain that they are boxed-in.
Most Respectfully,
R
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
Why?
(COMMENT)
Who does it harm if the US recognizes that the Knesset in located in Jerusalem?
Who does it hurt if the US recognizes that the Prime Minister's Office is in Jerusalem?
Who does it hurt if the US reconizes that the Ministry of foreign affairs is no Jerusalem?
To not recognize the reality would demonstrate a psychological denial, refusing to believe an uncomfortable truth.
All the pro-Palestinians have to do is pretend that the US did not recognize Jerusalem as the Capitol. After all, the pro-Palestinians pretend that there are no borders; yet complain that they are boxed-in.
Most Respectfully,
R
When will the temple be rebuilt in Jerusalem???
That is the goal of the Christian Zionists here in the USA and why they support making all of Jerusalem, east and west, Israel's, isn't it?
The temple has to rebuilt according to Pastor Hagee or the left behind fictional books.... in order for Christ to return... the antichrist has to have the balls to walk in to the Temple of God and proclaim himself to be god.....then Armageddon, the tribulation or great tribulation??? Oh and somewhere in that time period, there has to be an Israeli 7 year peace agreement....before Armageddon
So, is there plans to rebuild the Temple once Israel controls all turf??? Is that what this is really about, even for the Orthodox Jew and not just the Christian fundamentalists???
Inquiring minds want to know
That is the goal of the Christian Zionists here in the USA and why they support making all of Jerusalem, east and west, Israel's, isn't it?
The temple has to rebuilt according to Pastor Hagee or the left behind fictional books.... in order for Christ to return... the antichrist has to have the balls to walk in to the Temple of God and proclaim himself to be god.....then Armageddon, the tribulation or great tribulation??? Oh and somewhere in that time period, there has to be an Israeli 7 year peace agreement....before Armageddon
So, is there plans to rebuild the Temple once Israel controls all turf??? Is that what this is really about, even for the Orthodox Jew and not just the Christian fundamentalists???
Inquiring minds want to know
RoccoR
Gold Member
RE: Trump is expected to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital and move the US embassy
※→ Coyote, et al,
Well, this is not equivalent to the reality; the Arab Palestinians have impaired relationship with reality.
Israel gained political control of Jerusalem when the Jordanians abandon it. They already had effective control.
There has been a standing invitation to open talks between the Israelis and the Arab Palestinian quasi-Government since the Oslo Accord. The is especial true if the Arab Palestinians call it under the dispute resolutions process. That has been available for almost a quarter century. And the Quartet has been around for more than a decade. The United Nations (UN), the European Union (EU), the United States (US) and Russia. Under it Mandate, the Quartet principle mission was to help support statehood for the Palestinians, and support negotiations for regional peace. The Palestinian made it abundantly clear that all t wants is the money funneled n by the Donor Nations.
Oddly enough! The Quartet very often meets in Jerusalem where their offices are located.
The longer the Arab Palestinians resist the Peace Process, the more precarious their situation becomes.
Time is on the side of the Israeli's.
Most Respectfully,
R
※→ Coyote, et al,
Well, this is not equivalent to the reality; the Arab Palestinians have impaired relationship with reality.
(COMMENT)
Israel gained political control of Jerusalem when the Jordanians abandon it. They already had effective control.
(COMMENT)
There has been a standing invitation to open talks between the Israelis and the Arab Palestinian quasi-Government since the Oslo Accord. The is especial true if the Arab Palestinians call it under the dispute resolutions process. That has been available for almost a quarter century. And the Quartet has been around for more than a decade. The United Nations (UN), the European Union (EU), the United States (US) and Russia. Under it Mandate, the Quartet principle mission was to help support statehood for the Palestinians, and support negotiations for regional peace. The Palestinian made it abundantly clear that all t wants is the money funneled n by the Donor Nations.
Oddly enough! The Quartet very often meets in Jerusalem where their offices are located.
(COMMENT)
The longer the Arab Palestinians resist the Peace Process, the more precarious their situation becomes.
The parties to any dispute, the continuance of which is likely to endanger the maintenance of
international peace and security, shall, first of all, seek a solution by negotiation, inquiry, mediation,
conciliation, arbitration, judicial settlement, resort to regional agencies or arrangements, or other
peaceful means of their own choice. (Article 33, Para 1, UN Charter)
international peace and security, shall, first of all, seek a solution by negotiation, inquiry, mediation,
conciliation, arbitration, judicial settlement, resort to regional agencies or arrangements, or other
peaceful means of their own choice. (Article 33, Para 1, UN Charter)
Time is on the side of the Israeli's.
Most Respectfully,
R
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