Trump Imitates Chinese Communist Party

[struth]

Sen. Rand Paul (Ky.), a libertarian-minded Republican, criticized the Trump administration’s push to acquire a stake in U.S. chipmaker Intel, suggesting the move would be a “step toward socialism.”

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/5462706-rand-paul-intel-socialism/#:~:text=by%20Sarah%20Fortinsky%20%2D%2008/20,told%20CNBC's%20%E2%80%9CSquawk%20Box.%E2%80%9D

Just curious what the full ownership by USA government of the following is not also "steps toward socialism"?
Examples of Government-Owned or Sponsored Entities:

• Amtrak: A quasi-public corporation that provides passenger rail service.
  
  
• U.S. Postal Service: An independent establishment of the executive branch of the U.S. government.
  
  
• Federal Prison Industries (UNICOR): A government corporation that provides goods and services to federal agencies.
  
  
• Commodity Credit Corporation (CCC): A government corporation that supports U.S. agriculture.
  
  
• Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC): A government agency that insures deposits in U.S. banks.
  
  
• Fannie Mae (Federal National Mortgage Association): A government-sponsored enterprise that buys mortgages from lenders and packages them into securities.
  
  
• Freddie Mac (Federal Home Loan Mortgage Corporation): Another GSE that functions similarly to Fannie Mae in the mortgage market.
  
  
• Ginnie Mae (Government National Mortgage Association): A government-owned corporation within the Department of Housing and Urban Development that guarantees mortgage-backed securities.
  
  
• Tennessee Valley Authority (TVA): A federally owned corporation that provides electricity and other services in the Tennessee Valley.

No it's not, part ownership and control are too different things.

This is actually a brilliant move by Trump to ensure that the American people get a return for their bailout. After the Obama auto bailouts, and the bank bailouts....this should be the model moving forward...no more just taking a massive risk and hoping we don't lose, this gives the tax payers a return.

 

[kyzr]

What's not credible is reciting media narrative twaddle and slogans as though it's what actually happened.
"The impending second depression" was as cooked up a scare story as Goebbels warming is...And you've fallen for it to this very day.
You do realize that none of that bad paper was wrung out of the system, and was transferred to the Fed, right?

What part of "TARP Loans" were repaid by the banks don't you understand?

Only about $580m out of $700b of TARP loans need to be repaid, with interest.

Bailout Tracker

ProPublica is still tracking where every dollar of taxpayer money from the 2008 bailout of the financial system has gone. See for yourself.

projects.propublica.org

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

it was either that or have the economy collapse overnight due to a complete lack of credit.

According to who? The politicians who conned you into using your tax dollars to bail out hedge funds?

 

[candycorn]

Haven’t read a word of this thread but here is what is happening (I bet).

Those who supported Trump are (for the most part) suddenly fine with the government taking ownership stakes in corporations. Gone are the heady days of the GM boycotts....lol

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Sen. Rand Paul (Ky.), a libertarian-minded Republican, criticized the Trump administration’s push to acquire a stake in U.S. chipmaker Intel, suggesting the move would be a “step toward socialism.”

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/5462706-rand-paul-intel-socialism/#:~:text=by%20Sarah%20Fortinsky%20%2D%2008/20,told%20CNBC's%20%E2%80%9CSquawk%20Box.%E2%80%9D

Just curious what the full ownership by USA government of the following is not also "steps toward socialism"?
Examples of Government-Owned or Sponsored Entities:

• Amtrak: A quasi-public corporation that provides passenger rail service.
  
  
• U.S. Postal Service: An independent establishment of the executive branch of the U.S. government.
  
  
• Federal Prison Industries (UNICOR): A government corporation that provides goods and services to federal agencies.
  
  
• Commodity Credit Corporation (CCC): A government corporation that supports U.S. agriculture.
  
  
• Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC): A government agency that insures deposits in U.S. banks.
  
  
• Fannie Mae (Federal National Mortgage Association): A government-sponsored enterprise that buys mortgages from lenders and packages them into securities.
  
  
• Freddie Mac (Federal Home Loan Mortgage Corporation): Another GSE that functions similarly to Fannie Mae in the mortgage market.
  
  
• Ginnie Mae (Government National Mortgage Association): A government-owned corporation within the Department of Housing and Urban Development that guarantees mortgage-backed securities.
  
  
• Tennessee Valley Authority (TVA): A federally owned corporation that provides electricity and other services in the Tennessee Valley.

 

[kyzr]

Haven’t read a word of this thread but here is what is happening (I bet).
Those who supported Trump are (for the most part) suddenly fine with the government taking ownership stakes in corporations. Gone are the heady days of the GM boycotts....lol

So are you for just giving taxpayer money to corporations and getting nothing in return?

Which U.S. Companies Receive the Most Government Subsidies?

Government subsidies are nearing tens of billions for some companies. Here’s the ones which got the most taxpayer support.

www.visualcapitalist.com

 

[martybegan]

According to who? The politicians who conned you into using your tax dollars to bail out hedge funds?

According to the information I had at the time, and what I have seen the past decade or so after.

 

[Oddball]

What part of "TARP Loans" were repaid by the banks don't you understand?

Only about $580m out of $700b of TARP loans need to be repaid, with interest.

Bailout Tracker

ProPublica is still tracking where every dollar of taxpayer money from the 2008 bailout of the financial system has gone. See for yourself.

projects.propublica.org

What part of THEY WERE NEVER NEEDED don't YOU understand?

Best just to go along with what your betters have drilled into your head, and have no skepticism or independent thought.

 

[Oddball]

According to the information I had at the time, and what I have seen the past decade or so after.

The "information you had at the time" was pimped by jackasses like Paul Krugman and Jim Cramer, who are such nearly perfect reverse barometers that there are internet groups who specialize in investing against what they say, and getting rich doing it.

 

[martybegan]

The "information you had at the time" was pimped by jackasses like Paul Krugman and Jim Cramer, who are such nearly perfect reverse barometers that there are internet groups who specialize in investing against what they say, and getting rich doing it.

I actually don't remember them during the crisis, as it seemed to be moving faster than you could get to morons like them for opinions on things.

I do remember being at a Lehman "going away" party held at a bar in the city.

 

[kyzr]

What part of THEY WERE NEVER NEEDED don't YOU understand?
Best just to go along with what your betters have drilled into your head, and have no skepticism or independent thought.

What part of "you are wrong" don't you understand?
Letting $700b of bank assets vaporize would have led to a depression.
Loaning $700b to banks to reorganize their balance sheets saved $700b of American's investments.
I agree with TARP as a necessary evil, only happening because of the horrible Clinton "Community Reinvestment Act"

 

[postman]

Sen. Rand Paul (Ky.), a libertarian-minded Republican, criticized the Trump administration’s push to acquire a stake in U.S. chipmaker Intel, suggesting the move would be a “step toward socialism.”

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/5462706-rand-paul-intel-socialism/#:~:text=by%20Sarah%20Fortinsky%20%2D%2008/20,told%20CNBC's%20%E2%80%9CSquawk%20Box.%E2%80%9D

Just curious what the full ownership by USA government of the following is not also "steps toward socialism"?
Examples of Government-Owned or Sponsored Entities:

• Amtrak: A quasi-public corporation that provides passenger rail service.
  
  
• U.S. Postal Service: An independent establishment of the executive branch of the U.S. government.
  
  
• Federal Prison Industries (UNICOR): A government corporation that provides goods and services to federal agencies.
  
  
• Commodity Credit Corporation (CCC): A government corporation that supports U.S. agriculture.
  
  
• Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC): A government agency that insures deposits in U.S. banks.
  
  
• Fannie Mae (Federal National Mortgage Association): A government-sponsored enterprise that buys mortgages from lenders and packages them into securities.
  
  
• Freddie Mac (Federal Home Loan Mortgage Corporation): Another GSE that functions similarly to Fannie Mae in the mortgage market.
  
  
• Ginnie Mae (Government National Mortgage Association): A government-owned corporation within the Department of Housing and Urban Development that guarantees mortgage-backed securities.
  
  
• Tennessee Valley Authority (TVA): A federally owned corporation that provides electricity and other services in the Tennessee Valley.

Up until Intel, the government agencies were providers of "public" services, that private industry either couldn't or didn't want to provide.

Intel in the first "for profit" company that is part of the industrial "means of production"

 

[candycorn]

So are you for just giving taxpayer money to corporations and getting nothing in return?

Which U.S. Companies Receive the Most Government Subsidies?

Government subsidies are nearing tens of billions for some companies. Here’s the ones which got the most taxpayer support.

www.visualcapitalist.com

View attachment 1154093

Not sure if you know this or not but a lot of those companies you mentioned hire a lot of Americans...who pay taxes through payroll deductions and income taxes in addition every April.
It doesn’t sound like we’re getting “nothing” from those subsidies but I’m sure you’ll now tell us. I’m sure it will be hilarious so let’s hear it.

 

[kyzr]

Not sure if you know this or not but a lot of those companies you mentioned hire a lot of Americans...who pay taxes through payroll deductions and income taxes in addition every April.
It doesn’t sound like we’re getting “nothing” from those subsidies but I’m sure you’ll now tell us. I’m sure it will be hilarious so let’s hear it.

Call me a greedy taxpayer. Or, call me an opponent of corporate welfare.
Either way, if taxpayers give cash to corporations to keep them in business, I strongly believe that taxpayers should get stock, which may eventually go to zero anyway, but at least its value for the taxpayer cash. An "investment" as opposed to a "gift".

 

[candycorn]

Call me a greedy taxpayer. Or, call me an opponent of corporate welfare.
Either way, if taxpayers give cash to corporations to keep them in business, I strongly believe that taxpayers should get stock, which may eventually go to zero anyway, but at least its value for the taxpayer cash. An "investment" as opposed to a "gift".

lol....

And of course you’d be all in favor of taxpayers getting a good ROI right?

So when a company in which we now own stock wants to pollute the environment, violate labor laws, screw their competition who are not partly owned by the government..you’re be all for that right?

This is just one reason why government ownership of corporations is a bad idea. Its pretty obvious but somehow, I’m 100% sure you won’t understand that concept.

 

[kyzr]

lol....And of course you’d be all in favor of taxpayers getting a good ROI right?
So when a company in which we now own stock wants to pollute the environment, violate labor laws, screw their competition who are not partly owned by the government..you’re be all for that right?
This is just one reason why government ownership of corporations is a bad idea. Its pretty obvious but somehow, I’m 100% sure you won’t understand that concept.

Lets start the conversation at the correct beginning.
1. We taxpayers are giving $100b or so a year to corporations for the last decade or so, see post #73 for a list
2. Right now that corporate welfare is a gift, to investors and company employees
3. I'm not judging the rationale' for the corporate welfare, as you argue for environment, or labor laws, or the effect on their competition. That is NOT the discussion I am having, i.e. is the subsidy deserved or justified.
4. As a taxpayer, my only argument is that for any subsidy, taxpayers deserve compensation, i.e. stock for the cash.

 

[Foxfyre]

Sen. Rand Paul (Ky.), a libertarian-minded Republican, criticized the Trump administration’s push to acquire a stake in U.S. chipmaker Intel, suggesting the move would be a “step toward socialism.”

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/5462706-rand-paul-intel-socialism/#:~:text=by%20Sarah%20Fortinsky%20%2D%2008/20,told%20CNBC's%20%E2%80%9CSquawk%20Box.%E2%80%9D

Just curious what the full ownership by USA government of the following is not also "steps toward socialism"?
Examples of Government-Owned or Sponsored Entities:

• Amtrak: A quasi-public corporation that provides passenger rail service.
  
  
• U.S. Postal Service: An independent establishment of the executive branch of the U.S. government.
  
  
• Federal Prison Industries (UNICOR): A government corporation that provides goods and services to federal agencies.
  
  
• Commodity Credit Corporation (CCC): A government corporation that supports U.S. agriculture.
  
  
• Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC): A government agency that insures deposits in U.S. banks.
  
  
• Fannie Mae (Federal National Mortgage Association): A government-sponsored enterprise that buys mortgages from lenders and packages them into securities.
  
  
• Freddie Mac (Federal Home Loan Mortgage Corporation): Another GSE that functions similarly to Fannie Mae in the mortgage market.
  
  
• Ginnie Mae (Government National Mortgage Association): A government-owned corporation within the Department of Housing and Urban Development that guarantees mortgage-backed securities.
  
  
• Tennessee Valley Authority (TVA): A federally owned corporation that provides electricity and other services in the Tennessee Valley.

The current Administration is not the least bit--not the teensiest bit--socialist minded. What they did with Intel was cut a deal so that the microchip industry would be wrested out of control of China and returned to the USA. Included in the deal was Intel shelving their intentions to greatly increase their production in Chine. Is is a huge national security benefit for us.

It was not a step toward socialism.

It was a huge step away from Communist control however.

 

[candycorn]

Lets start the conversation at the correct beginning.
1. We taxpayers are giving $100b or so a year to corporations for the last decade or so, see post #73 for a list
2. Right now that corporate welfare is a gift, to investors and company employees
3. I'm not judging the rationale' for the corporate welfare, as you argue for environment, or labor laws, or the effect on their competition. That is NOT the discussion I am having, i.e. is the subsidy deserved or justified.
4. As a taxpayer, my only argument is that for any subsidy, taxpayers deserve compensation, i.e. stock for the cash.

I’m not sure what is more bizarre.

Your ignoring the influence that will certainly follow the buy-in. As corporations operate, the stockholders (aka the Board) usually dictates the path of the company. You’re setting up either a incestuous relationship between the government and the corporation or, at worse, a bizarre scenario by which the government may end up suing a company whom which it is part owner.

And even if what I wrote in this post (and the previous one) were not true and all too obvious...it is still a stupid idea.

 

[kyzr]

I’m not sure what is more bizarre. Your ignoring the influence that will certainly follow the buy-in. As corporations operate, the stockholders (aka the Board) usually dictates the path of the company. You’re setting up either a incestuous relationship between the government and the corporation or, at worse, a bizarre scenario by which the government may end up suing a company whom which it is part owner.

The Intel stake has no government influence. No board seat, no influence period. Its just getting stock for the subsidy. Instead of getting nothing.

And even if what I wrote in this post (and the previous one) were not true and all too obvious...it is still a stupid idea.

Not sure if you are opposed to all subsidies, or getting stock for the subsidies? Since this thread is about the stake in Intel and if that could lead to socialism, I tend to say no. I want to stress that ALL subsidies need to be given only if justified. But if that subsidy is given, I want stock for the investment to protect taxpayers.

 

[Oddball]

I actually don't remember them during the crisis, as it seemed to be moving faster than you could get to morons like them for opinions on things.

I do remember being at a Lehman "going away" party held at a bar in the city.

Whether you remember listening to them or not, that was the bandwagon they rode and the one you're on.

The "ECONOMIC COLLAPSE!" narrative was meant to get the hoi polloy to nod and go along with bailing out bad actors on Wall Street....And apparently you took the bait.