Trump: I Have Investigators in Hawaii...'They Cannot Believe What They're Finding'

[bigrebnc1775]

I love how CON$ have anointed themselves to speak for all people of all colors and nationalities.

LINGUISTICS AND AFRICA | Black or African | Sub-Saharan Africa | Feminism | Pre-Colonial

Black is a construction which articulates a recent social-political reality of people of color (pigmented people).​

Black is not a racial family, an ethnic group or a super-ethnic group. Political blackness is thus not an identity but moreover a social-political consequence of a world which after colonialism and slavery existed in those color terms.

"white" depends for its stability on its negation, "black." Neither exists without the other, and both come into being at the moment of imperial conquest. - Franz Fanon

Africans have gone from Negro (Spanish for Black) to Black (English for Negro) what has changed? Only the language. An identity is generally geographical and ties the people to their native environment or their core doctrine (Jews of Judaism, Muslims of Islam, Chinese of China).

African and black are not interchangeable just as Dark continent and Africa are not. Self-determination allows a people to re-examine definitions and sculpt them to their reality. Black, like Negro is facing linguistic extinction, especially in academic circles, due to its poor foundation in speaking about the oldest and most diverse people on the planet. Notice today only two races go by color labels; The race with the most oppression and the ones inflicting that oppression. "I am black and proud" is a song, nothing else. It is the rhetoric necessary at the time to lift us up. It has run its course and has expired.

"Black tells you how you look without telling you who you are. A more proper word for our people, African, relates us to land, history and culture."

- John Henrik Clarke

BLACK AND THE 60's

Indians are from India , Chinese from China . There is no country called Blackia or Blackistan and a people must respectfully be tied to geography as skin color is not the primary definitive identifier.. Hence, the ancestry-nationality model is more respectful and accurate: African-American, African-British, African-Arabian, African-Brazilian, and African-Caribbean. And if Black people has some validity as a political term it can not be limited in its application to people of African decent. Nostalgia is not an accurate place for African linguistic self-determination, and blackness is blatantly a cultural inheritance of oppressed people. The pattern of acceptance of a black identity globally walks hand in hand with European cultural oppression.
Black pride is reactionary pride, necessary then, Irrelevant now. As we blossom into a greater historical and cultural awareness of a Motherland a detachment with fictional attachments to slave names must be challenged, and we must end the romance with things that are a disservice to our identity today.

It is worth noting parts of African that are culturally intact such as in Ethiopia, Mali, Somalia, Nigeria and Niger have absolutely no fondness or linguistic presence of a "black identity."

Don't bring that shit back in here

1997
Revisions to the Standards for the Classification of Federal Data on Race and Ethnicity

5. Comments on Recommendations for Terminology

Comments on terminology largely supported the Interagency Committee's recommendations to retain the term "American Indian," to change "Hawaiian" to "Native Hawaiian," and to change "Black" to "Black or African American." There were a few requests to include "Latino" in the category name for the Hispanic population.

Revisions to the Standards for the Classification of Federal Data on Race and Ethnicity | The White House
From the New York Times
'African-American' Becomes a Term for Debate


"I've had to check several different boxes in my lifetime," said Donna Brazile, 44, Al Gore's campaign manager in the 2000 presidential race. "In my birth certificate I'm identified as a Negro. Then I was black. Now I readily check African-American. I have a group of friends and we call ourselves the colored girls sometimes, to remind ourselves that we ain't too far from that, either."

The term African-American has crept steadily into the nation's vocabulary since 1988, when the Rev. Jesse Jackson held a news conference to urge Americans to use it to refer to blacks.

"It puts us in our proper historical context," Mr. Jackson said then, adding in a recent interview that he still favored the term. "Every ethnic group in this country has a reference to some land base, some historical cultural base. African-Americans have hit that level of cultural maturity."

Since 1989, the number of blacks using the term has steadily increased, polls show. In a survey that year conducted by ABC and The Washington Post, 66 percent said they preferred the term black, 22 preferred African-American, 10 percent liked both terms and 2 percent had no opinion.

In 2000, the Census Bureau for the first time allowed respondents to check a box that carried the heading African-American next to the term black. In 2003, a poll by the same news organizations found that 48 percent of blacks preferred the term African-American, 35 percent favored black and 17 percent liked both terms.

'African-American' Becomes a Term for Debate

You're talking about American terminology...there's a bigger world out there beyond America and not everyone in it conforms to the American bureaucratic handbook.
Obama senior wasn't American, I'm sure he ever gave a toss what the US government decided what he should be called.

As an aside, I did a wee bit of research;
here's a quote from an American novelist, Harriet Beecher Stowe, who lived and died in the 19th century


In 1862 Congress resolved, in support of Abraham Lincoln's program for black emancipation and resettlement;

The Great Emancipator Abraham Lincoln and the Issue of Race

Agendas from the Senate

8th Congress, October 17, 1803 - March 3, 1805
Senate, 2nd Session
Quakers, a petition from the people called, relating to the African race, received and read by the yeas and nays

American Slavery, Congressional Records

Lincoln again on black emancipation

This suggestion of the possible redemption of the African race and the African continent was made twenty five years ago. Every succeeding year has added to the hope of its realization. May it indeed by realized!

Colonization - Abraham Lincoln

The question I suppose is...are you suggesting that Lincoln had no idea what he was talking about?

You're talking about American terminology...there's a bigger world out there beyond America and not everyone in it conforms to the American bureaucratic handbook.
Obama senior wasn't American, I'm sure he ever gave a toss what the US government decided what he should be called.

However, we are talking about an American issue dealing with 1960's American racial identifier words, on American documents.

As an aside, I did a wee bit of research;
here's a quote from an American novelist, Harriet Beecher Stowe, who lived and died in the 19th century

You did, thats lovely Here you go Abraham Lincoln on the same subject

There is a natural disgust in the minds of nearly all white people to the idea of indiscriminate amalgamation of the white and black races ... A separation of the races is the only perfect preventive of amalgamation, but as an immediate separation is impossible, the next best thing is to keep them apart where they are not already together. If white and black people never get together in Kansas, they will never mix blood in Kansas.

I have a question for you is American a race?

Between late August and mid-October, 1858, Lincoln and Douglas travelled together around the state to confront each other in seven historic debates. On August 21, before a crowd of 10,000 at Ottawa, Lincoln declared:

I have no purpose directly or indirectly to interfere with the institution of slavery in the states where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so.

He continued:

I have no purpose to introduce political and social equality between the white and black races. There is physical difference between the two which, in my judgment, will probably forever forbid their living together upon the footing of perfect equality, and inasmuch as it becomes a necessity that there must be a difference, I, as well as Judge Douglas, am in favor of the race to which I belong having the superior position.


Many people accepted the rumors spread by Douglas supporters that Lincoln favored social equality of the races. Before the start of the September 18 debate at Charleston, Illinois, an elderly man approached Lincoln in a hotel and asked him if the stories were true. Recounting the encounter later before a crowd of 15,000, Lincoln declared:

I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races; I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people.

He continued:

I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I, as much as any other man, am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race.

The Great Emancipator Abraham Lincoln and the Issue of Race

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Probably a parent. That's what happened with both my children. While the wife was busy squeezing out both the munchkins, I filled out the paperwork. The hospital took that paperwork and from it completed the hospital certification that was then sent to the government to generate their official birth certificate.



One more time what you want to be does not mean that your desires are reality.

It would be perfectly natural for someone from Africa referring to themselves as "African".



>>>>

You did not Identify the race the hospital did.
The only thing you filled out was names and your personal information and your wifes. And what you filled out they made sure it was correct.

Oh bullshit. The hospital would have had no idea what to put down. They wouldn't know whether to put White (Caucasian) or if I could claim a Hispanic derivative, or if I had Native American blood. (And no you can't tell just by looking at people.)

Actually I filled out the paperwork and it included race/ethnicity information, that is what is on the birth certificate.

What do you think the government conducts investigations as to race/ethnicity of it's patients? Do they use the local police, FBI or to they hire private investigators?

It would be perfectly natural for someone from Africa referring to themselves as "African".

Not in the 60's How can anyone identify with a word with they do not know there is a word. They would use the word that was normal for that period of time. Black and Negro

You don't think that an African in the 1960's would know the word "African".

Give me a break.


>>>>

You don't think that an African in the 1960's would know the word "African".

No he would not use that word if that word was not used as a racial identifer, and in the
60's it was not.

Oh bullshit. The hospital would have had no idea what to put down. They wouldn't know whether to put White (Caucasian) or if I could claim a Hispanic derivative, or if I had Native American blood. (And no you can't tell just by looking at people.)

If you were black do you think they would allow you to place yourself as white? or visa versa

 

[idb]

So...not only are you saying that Lincoln didn't know what he was talking about, you're using the opportunity to impugn his name by posting irrelevant quotes suggesting that he is a racist!

 

[idb]

And to answer your question, I would suggest that the indigenous Americans would say that "yes, American is a race".

 

[WorldWatcher]

You did not Identify the race the hospital did.
The only thing you filled out was names and your personal information and your wifes. And what you filled out they made sure it was correct.

Oh bullshit. The hospital would have had no idea what to put down. They wouldn't know whether to put White (Caucasian) or if I could claim a Hispanic derivative, or if I had Native American blood. (And no you can't tell just by looking at people.)

Actually I filled out the paperwork and it included race/ethnicity information, that is what is on the birth certificate.

What do you think the government conducts investigations as to race/ethnicity of it's patients? Do they use the local police, FBI or to they hire private investigators?





You don't think that an African in the 1960's would know the word "African".

Give me a break.


>>>>

You don't think that an African in the 1960's would know the word "African".

No he would not use that word if that word was not used as a racial identifer, and in the
60's it was not.

Someone from Africa and not familiar with American racial identifiers, actually it makes perfect sense in the 1960's.

Oh bullshit. The hospital would have had no idea what to put down. They wouldn't know whether to put White (Caucasian) or if I could claim a Hispanic derivative, or if I had Native American blood. (And no you can't tell just by looking at people.)

If you were black do you think they would allow you to place yourself as white? or visa versa

The person taking the hospital forms and then typing up medical records and hospital birth records - that are the sent to the government to create the official birth certificate - will never have even seen the person that filled out the forms.

Yes they would. Racial identifiers are SELF identification and when that information is provided by the individual it is completely up to them to SELF identify. If a fair skinned Irish redhead walks into our office to be hired and fills out her paperwork and lists black as her race, then that's what goes into the system. We do not have the authority to override a self identification.

That's her choice and we follow the self identification.

Our HR Specialists, the ones who do the data entry on computers now, mostly likely have never seen the person face to face. Staffing hires people and gets the paperwork filled out then passes it over to a different section for in-processing.


>>>>

 

[idb]

Also, as I said earlier, anyone from Kenya at that time was likely to be highly politicised and identify strongly as an African.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Also, as I said earlier, anyone from Kenya at that time was likely to be highly politicised and identify strongly as an African.

Sure but African is not a race. Is American a race?

 

[idb]

Also, as I said earlier, anyone from Kenya at that time was likely to be highly politicised and identify strongly as an African.

Sure but African is not a race. Is American a race?

Yep, they've been there for tens of thousands of years.

 

[paperview]

Is Hawaiian a race?

Is Japanese a race?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

So...not only are you saying that Lincoln didn't know what he was talking about, you're using the opportunity to impugn his name by posting irrelevant quotes suggesting that he is a racist!

OMG You used comments from Lincoln, and I did too. It wasn't an attack on him but it was to counter your comment that he used the word African race, which makes it relevant.
That like saying the American race.

 

[idb]

There's also the space race, aliens and all that - in fact, maybe that's what Mr Trump is, what with all the probing he's doing...
After all, his birth certificate was found to be fake.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

And to answer your question, I would suggest that the indigenous Americans would say that "yes, American is a race".

Here in America they're called American Indians then it changed to Native American, it's just word used of the time and how people have been indoctrinated to think, just as it was in the 60's with the term Black or Negro identifer for of the black race.

 

[paperview]

So...not only are you saying that Lincoln didn't know what he was talking about, you're using the opportunity to impugn his name by posting irrelevant quotes suggesting that he is a racist!

OMG You used comments from Lincoln, and I did too. It wasn't an attack on him but it was to counter your comment that he used the word African race, which makes it relevant.
That like saying the American race.

Oh look:

“Certificate of Live Birth” from Hawaii dated 1973:

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bryajw/HardestyPhotos/Keala%20Hardesty%20birth%20certificate.jpg

Before computerization, so it is hand typed.

The actual birth was in 1907. Notice here, it is an abstract of the “vault certificate.”

It lacks the same information as Obama’s COLB (i.e. hospital, doctor’s name, etc. )

Yet is is a CERTIFICATE rather than a CERTIFICATION of live birth, demonstrating that the words (as understood by the Hawaiian DoH) are identical in meaning.

Father’s race: “American.”
“American” is no more or less a “race” than “African.”

And hoobeedoobies, there it is on an Hawaiian birth certificate!

 

[paperview]

And just to top it off, this is how Kenyans reported their race in their own country in the 1960s:

Race.- Write European, Arab, Somali, or African, etc. Asians must write Indian or Pakistan.
​

Proof: Instructions for the 1962 Population Census of Kenya

Now, do you really think it's so wild a Kenyan would have identified himself as African?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Is Hawaiian a race?

Is Japanese a race?

No Japanese is not a race they are called oriental or Asian

 

[paperview]

Is Hawaiian a race?

Is Japanese a race?

No Japanese is not a race they are called oriental or Asian

The race listed is what is stated by the parent or parents. You will also find Japanese listed under "race" on many Hawaiian BC's. Agreed. Japanese is not a race, but there it is.

And spend some moments thinking about this: If this was a forgery, as some purport, don't you think the alleged forgers would be smart enough to not put that there, waving red flags for the red meat crowd?

It's a true copy of what is on his long form, which apparently lists his father's race as "African." That's what you need to know.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

And just to top it off, this is how Kenyans reported their race in their own country in the 1960s:

Race.- Write European, Arab, Somali, or African, etc. Asians must write Indian or Pakistan.
​

Proof: Instructions for the 1962 Population Census of Kenya

Now, do you really think it's so wild a Kenyan would have identified himself as African?

Are you saying there were no whites in Kenya in the 60's? Or blacks in Eroupe wo also lived in Kenya?

 

[idb]

So...not only are you saying that Lincoln didn't know what he was talking about, you're using the opportunity to impugn his name by posting irrelevant quotes suggesting that he is a racist!

OMG You used comments from Lincoln, and I did too. It wasn't an attack on him but it was to counter your comment that he used the word African race, which makes it relevant.
That like saying the American race.

But he said it nevertheless, I was right.

It shows that African has been considered a race for over 200 years.
Mr Obama was an educated man and he would have known this and you must now concede that there is a direct line from Abraham Lincoln to Barack Obama's birth certificate...good lord, it should be in the National Archives with the Constitution!
Maybe it is, maybe that's why they can't find it in Hawaii.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Is Hawaiian a race?

Is Japanese a race?

No Japanese is not a race they are called oriental or Asian

The race listed is what is stated by the parent or parents. You will also find Japanese listed under "race" on many Hawaiian BC's. Agreed. Japanese is not a race, but there it is.

And spend some moments thinking about this: If this was a forgery, as some purport, don't you think the alleged forgers would be smart enough to not put that there, waving red flags for the red meat crowd?

It's a true copy of what is on his long form, which apparently lists his father's race as "African." That's what you need to know.

The term African would not have been used in the 60's to identify Race in America, the tem is used now the obama BC that has a date stamp of 07 would show African as a race, because it's a term used now.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

So...not only are you saying that Lincoln didn't know what he was talking about, you're using the opportunity to impugn his name by posting irrelevant quotes suggesting that he is a racist!

OMG You used comments from Lincoln, and I did too. It wasn't an attack on him but it was to counter your comment that he used the word African race, which makes it relevant.
That like saying the American race.

But he said it nevertheless, I was right.

It shows that African has been considered a race for over 200 years.
Mr Obama was an educated man and he would have known this and you must now concede that there is a direct line from Abraham Lincoln to Barack Obama's birth certificate...good lord, it should be in the National Archives with the Constitution!
Maybe it is, maybe that's why they can't find it in Hawaii.

He also called them the black race, or negros.