Trump and the National debt..

[pinqy]

unemployment is 5%... how much more can he lower it ?

For one, he can report the ACTUAL unemployment number, that factors in the number of Americans no longer in the Labor Force, a number Obama avoids because it makes his Unemployment numbers go up - reflecting what they really are..

What makes that the "actual" number when no one in the history of ever has used it as an official number? Why on earth would you want to classify someone not trying to work as unemployed?

 

[Siete]

unemployment is 5%... how much more can he lower it ?

For one, he can report the ACTUAL unemployment number, that factors in the number of Americans no longer in the Labor Force, a number Obama avoids because it makes his Unemployment numbers go up - reflecting what they really are..

What makes that the "actual" number when no one in the history of ever has used it as an official number? Why on earth would you want to classify someone not trying to work as unemployed?

out of the work force and unemployed are the exact same thing to simple minds ... complex thought esapes them

 

[elektra]

Who Knows what Trump will do? Trump did offer to spend more than Obama on Ethanol.

 

[easyt65]

out of the work force and unemployed are the exact same thing to simple minds ... complex thought esapes them

I am sure it must, but intelligent people know that NOT taking into account the millions of able-bodied out of work citizens who have left the work force gives a false Unemployment record, making the Unemployment stat look better than it truly is. It's what scam artist politicians do to make themselves and their administration look better.

 

[the_human_being]

Your tax dollars at work:

 

[Siete]

out of the work force and unemployed are the exact same thing to simple minds ... complex thought esapes them

I am sure it must, but intelligent people know that NOT taking into account the millions of able-bodied out of work citizens who have left the work force gives a false Unemployment record, making the Unemployment stat look better than it truly is. It's what scam artist politicians do to make themselves and their administration look better.

the people who retire can only hope they are able bodied for years to come ...

 

[g5000]

Oh, dude! Trump is totally gonna take care of the national debt! I mean Chapter 11 reorganization! He's a total pro at that stuff!

Chapter 11 is his favorite book of the bible!

 

[pinqy]

out of the work force and unemployed are the exact same thing to simple minds ... complex thought esapes them

I am sure it must, but intelligent people know that NOT taking into account the millions of able-bodied out of work citizens who have left the work force gives a false Unemployment record, making the Unemployment stat look better than it truly is. .

Actually, adding into the labor force people not participating in the labor market makes the unemployment rate look worse than it really is.

Someone who doesn't do anything to get a job will not get a job. That's pretty obvious. So if 90 million people don't apply for jobs and don't get jobs, what does that tell us about how hard or easy it is to get a job? The answer, of course, is "nothing." So why do you want to include them when they add no useful information?

 

[Indeependent]

Unemployment is 4,9%! Oh, yeah, YOU try living on $10.00/hour.

That's a non sequitur. What does whether or not someone can live on $10.00/hour (average wages for private sector production and nonsupervisory employees is $21.33, btw) have to do with the unemployment rate?

Artificially inundating the work force to significantly lower wages has everything to do with it.
What happens when someone with an advanced degree is reduced to stacking supermarket shelves?
Conservatives have orgasms.

 

[pinqy]

Unemployment is 4,9%! Oh, yeah, YOU try living on $10.00/hour.

That's a non sequitur. What does whether or not someone can live on $10.00/hour (average wages for private sector production and nonsupervisory employees is $21.33, btw) have to do with the unemployment rate?

Artificially inundating the work force to significantly lower wages has everything to do with it.

What is your evidence that has happened?

What happens when someone with an advanced degree is reduced to stacking supermarket shelves?

He has a job and earns a paycheck.

Three people work at the same job stacking the shelves for $10.00. One is a student who has his Masters and is working on his Phd. and the money is all he needs for expenses. One has a Masters degree in accounting, but after his prison term for embezzlement, the grocery store is the best he can do. And the third has a Masters degree in fine arts. So....is there a problem in the labor market that these three are "reduced" to stacking shelves?

My point is that what you're talking about is way to subjective to be measured in any meaningful way.

 

[Indeependent]

Unemployment is 4,9%! Oh, yeah, YOU try living on $10.00/hour.

That's a non sequitur. What does whether or not someone can live on $10.00/hour (average wages for private sector production and nonsupervisory employees is $21.33, btw) have to do with the unemployment rate?

Artificially inundating the work force to significantly lower wages has everything to do with it.

What is your evidence that has happened?

What happens when someone with an advanced degree is reduced to stacking supermarket shelves?

He has a job and earns a paycheck.

Three people work at the same job stacking the shelves for $10.00. One is a student who has his Masters and is working on his Phd. and the money is all he needs for expenses. One has a Masters degree in accounting, but after his prison term for embezzlement, the grocery store is the best he can do. And the third has a Masters degree in fine arts. So....is there a problem in the labor market that these three are "reduced" to stacking shelves?

My point is that what you're talking about is way to subjective to be measured in any meaningful way.

Over 3,000,000 Business Visas have replaced Americans with advanced degrees and you still group everyone into one big ink blot.
You better enjoy your Portfilio before Trump becomes President.

 

[easyt65]

Actually, adding into the labor force people not participating in the labor market makes the unemployment rate look worse than it really is.

Someone who doesn't do anything to get a job will not get a job. That's pretty obvious. So if 90 million people don't apply for jobs and don't get jobs, what does that tell us about how hard or easy it is to get a job? The answer, of course, is "nothing." So why do you want to include them when they add no useful information?

You seem to be saying everyone who is out of the labor force are losers who can not / will not make any effort to contribute and therefore should not be counted as part of the unemployment number.

Nice justification...

 

[pinqy]

Unemployment is 4,9%! Oh, yeah, YOU try living on $10.00/hour.

That's a non sequitur. What does whether or not someone can live on $10.00/hour (average wages for private sector production and nonsupervisory employees is $21.33, btw) have to do with the unemployment rate?

Artificially inundating the work force to significantly lower wages has everything to do with it.

What is your evidence that has happened?

What happens when someone with an advanced degree is reduced to stacking supermarket shelves?

He has a job and earns a paycheck.

Three people work at the same job stacking the shelves for $10.00. One is a student who has his Masters and is working on his Phd. and the money is all he needs for expenses. One has a Masters degree in accounting, but after his prison term for embezzlement, the grocery store is the best he can do. And the third has a Masters degree in fine arts. So....is there a problem in the labor market that these three are "reduced" to stacking shelves?

My point is that what you're talking about is way to subjective to be measured in any meaningful way.

Over 3,000,000 Business Visas have replaced Americans with advanced degrees and you still group everyone into one big ink blot.
.

How do you suggest seperating them out in any meaningful way? I'm all ears for a way to measure that kind of underemployment...no one has ever figured out how to do it.

 

[pinqy]

Actually, adding into the labor force people not participating in the labor market makes the unemployment rate look worse than it really is.

Someone who doesn't do anything to get a job will not get a job. That's pretty obvious. So if 90 million people don't apply for jobs and don't get jobs, what does that tell us about how hard or easy it is to get a job? The answer, of course, is "nothing." So why do you want to include them when they add no useful information?

You seem to be saying everyone who is out of the labor force are losers who can not / will not make any effort to contribute and therefore should not be counted as part of the unemployment number.
..

That's a radical interpretation of the text. I'm not making any moral judgement. I am saying that those not in the labor force are not in the labor force and are not participating in the labor market and cannot be hired until/unless they do something to get a job. Most don't want/need a job or can't work. We're talking retirees, disabled, students, stay home spouses, independently wealthy etc. Hell, if I win the Powerball tonight, you can bet your ass I'm leaving the labor force.

Why do you think someone who is not trying to work tells us anything about the labor market?
Let me be clear...I am NOT saying people not in the labor force "can not / will not make any effort to contribute" (I have no idea). I am saying that for the particular month they are not in the labor force they are not participating in the labor market. "Contribute?" No idea..there many ways to contribute to society or the economy without a job.

 

[easyt65]

That's a radical interpretation of the text. I'm not making any moral judgment. I am saying that those not in the labor force are not in the labor force and are not participating in the labor market and cannot be hired until/unless they do something to get a job. Most don't want/need a job or can't work. We're talking retirees, disabled, students, stay home spouses, independently wealthy etc. Hell, if I win the Powerball tonight, you can bet your ass I'm leaving the labor force.

Why do you think someone who is not trying to work tells us anything about the labor market?

"...cannot be hired until/unless they do something to get a job."
Again, a massive across-the-spectrum overreach. There are people out of the labor force who DO want a job, who can NOT find a job because there aren't jobs to be had. We have college graduates who can't find work, after being saddled with all that debt just to train for jobs that aren't there to be had.

Claiming everyone not in the labor force is lazy and does not want a job OR is an elderly person, disabled, stay at home spouses or independently wealthy....yeah we can pick every case that would prevent someone from working to justify not using the number of able-bodied Americans who are doing something, who can't find work, etc. I am just saying a very broad brush is being used to justify not using the out-of-the-labor-force numbers.

 

[Siete]

last time I checked millions of retiring baby boomers don't want a job, that's why they RETIRED.

get it? R-E-T-I-R-E-D = OUT OF THE WORK FORCE.

 

[easyt65]

last time I checked millions of retiring baby boomers don't want a job, that's why they RETIRED.

get it? R-E-T-I-R-E-D = OUT OF THE WORK FORCE.

Thank you for proving you have no clue regarding what you are talking about. Not every one not in the labor force is retired.

 

[pinqy]

That's a radical interpretation of the text. I'm not making any moral judgment. I am saying that those not in the labor force are not in the labor force and are not participating in the labor market and cannot be hired until/unless they do something to get a job. Most don't want/need a job or can't work. We're talking retirees, disabled, students, stay home spouses, independently wealthy etc. Hell, if I win the Powerball tonight, you can bet your ass I'm leaving the labor force.

Why do you think someone who is not trying to work tells us anything about the labor market?

"...cannot be hired until/unless they do something to get a job."
Again, a massive across-the-spectrum overreach.

How do you think someone who is not trying to work can be hired? How does that work?

There are people out of the labor force who DO want a job, who can NOT find a job because there aren't jobs to be had.

But you;re not talking about them. You're talking about people who aren't even trying to find a job. You don't see any difference at all between trying to find a job and failing, and not finding a job because you're not looking?

We have college graduates who can't find work, after being saddled with all that debt just to train for jobs that aren't there to be had.

How many? The UE rate for those age 16-24 with a Bachelor's or higher is 5.2% Age 25 and older, it's 2.6%

Claiming everyone not in the labor force is lazy and does not want a job OR is an elderly person, disabled, stay at home spouses or independently wealthy....yeah we can pick every case that would prevent someone from working to justify not using the number of able-bodied Americans who are doing something, who can't find work, etc. I am just saying a very broad brush is being used to justify not using the out-of-the-labor-force numbers.

I said nothing about being lazy...please don't put words in my mouth...it's dishonest. The majority of those not in the labor force, 93.6%, say they do not want a job. So why do you want to include them as unemployed?

You still haven't presented your case...what is the point of including people who CANNOT be hired because they are not trying to work (regardless of reason) as unemployed? You keep saying they cannot find work, but how could they? That someone who isn't trying to work can't get a job doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the labor market.

 

[Siete]

last time I checked millions of retiring baby boomers don't want a job, that's why they RETIRED.

get it? R-E-T-I-R-E-D = OUT OF THE WORK FORCE.

Thank you for proving you have no clue regarding what you are talking about. Not every one not in the labor force is retired.

no, thank you.

The thread topic is debt policy.

 

[easyt65]

Although the country's U-3 unemployment rate, as it's officially known, currently sits at 5.5 percent (which is considered to be a historically low percentage), that number only accounts for a small subset of Americans – those without jobs who have actively looked for work in the last four weeks.

But the monthly releases don't do justice to stories like Webb's. Months into her recovery, Webb wasn't counted as unemployed. She wasn't counted in the workforce at all. The Labor Department estimates 93 million people lived in the U.S. in May and were not counted as members of the labor force. Some of this group are retired, some are physically unable to work and some have just thrown in the towel on trying to land a job.

Discouraged workers are considered to be among those not included in the labor force. These are the unemployed individuals who have actively looked for a job at some point in the last 12 months but who aren't currently looking "because they believe there are no jobs available or there are none for which they would qualify," according to the Labor Department.

Discouraged workers are a subdivision of "marginally attached workers," who have looked for work at some point in the past year but hadn't in the last four weeks. Of the 1.8 million marginally attached workers in the U.S.


-- In September, 1.9 million persons were marginally attached to the labor force, down by 305,000 from a year earlier. (The data are not seasonally adjusted.) These individuals were not in the labor force, wanted and were available for work, and had looked for a job some time in the prior 12 months. They were not counted as unemployed because they had not searched for work in the 4 weeks preceding the survey.

-- The number of persons employed part time for economic reasons (involuntary part-time workers) declined by 447,000 to 6.0 million in September. These individuals, who would have preferred full-time employment, were working part time because their hours had been cut back or because they were unable to find a full-time job.
Who does the government count as 'employed'?count-employed/