Trudeau walks out of NAFTA negotiations

Dragonlady

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Trudeau says NAFTA negotiations stalled after Pence demanded sunset clause

Does this idiot not realize Canada and Mexico are in NO WIN SITUATIONS here? If they fail to renegotiate NAFTA then we just pull out and laugh as Mexico and Canada come screaming back for deals! Then we do 1 on 1 deals with them each! We hold ALL the cards!

I just wish Canada, Trudeau and Goodale had listened to me and my pleads to them. Yes, I have a personal anger for how I was treated when I blew the whistle, but I genuinely cared for my country and the former government, and now it seems, this government, has spit in my face in a way only East Germany could replicate with such fervor.

You all might recall I suggested Trump should look at bilateral deals, get rid of NAFTA, it would be FAR better for America, not even close when you have Trump and his far better negotiating team dealing from a position of leverage in a 1:1 situation rather than just elevating Canada to a higher position in the negotiations with a cheap labor economy called Mexico.

Well, I was stating this based on Trumps wise decision to avoid The Paris Accord. He wisely doesn't like mulilateral deals, and the reason is simple, America is still the gold standard. How much does America have to give away in a multi nation situation? Far more than it could ever gain.

So today, what does Trump suggest in a scrum with the media? That he prefers bilateral deals. His reasoning was just as sound, Canada and Mexico are different economies. He is signalling without playing games, that America should expect him to walk away from NAFTA, and the end result will be a big win for America, I guarantee it.

I really wanted Trudeau to NOT be like Harper. I reached out to him and Ralph Goodale. I pleaded with them to tell their fascist sob's to let me be and pursue my career and life in peace, I warned them, as I did Harper, if they didn't, I wouldn't hesitate to share what I knew. Well, without details, those who need to know, now know. I'm not some super spy, just a regular guy. One characteristic I have is what I call the Samurai Spirit. I will go to the end of the earth on principle. If I didn't, I'd feel I'm destroying my own soul, letting down God.

Bottom line. Trump isn't the guy you want to try and get one over on. As Lighthizer said (paraphrase), "Canada has been accustomed to a one sided deal so they are resistant to changes that we need". He is basically shouting to them publicly, "look, you know and I know that you've screwed us pretty good for 25 years. Ok. Good for you. However, this must and WILL now change. If not, NAFTA will be gone".

I know from listening to people that his base HATES NAFTA. With good reason. Since he can't build the wall before the mid terms, he can do the very next best thing, he can give the 6 month notice on NAFTA. Really, what votes would he lose? The same he won't win anyways, California and New York. Getting rid of NAFTA is a massive winner for him.

Sadly, in my experiences, Americans are FAR more curious and willing to be informed than State patsies in a Constitutional Monarchy. Canada has tunnel vision and they are arrogant, it's been their experience that they can be arrogant, run their PR campaigns with help from the global socialists and all will be fine. A function of a centralized system of government that rules and doesn't govern.

God Bless America! Get 'er done Trump!
What a load of unmitigated bullshit. You haven’t the vaguest clue about the Canadian economy or trade with the US. No wonder the government departments all treat you like a loon. You’ve given them good reason to believe you’re unhinged.
 

KeiserC

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The History Of Economic Sanctions - History Video! - DickMorris.com

Kind of like 101 for all you self proclaimed experts out there... (either you are in a position of leverage or your not), Just because being economically raped has become the status quo (for the US) doesn't mean that asking for some 'metaphorical' foreplay and dinner is an egregious affront to the various rapists who are now being asked to chip in on the dinner bill. Sure all the rapists will throw a tantrum at any change in their old hat 'behavior'...

Look at the trade deficits we have with the various "partners" around the globe... Germany a wealthy, propped up country doesn't contribute toward their defense as they are 'required' to do. Their fine automobiles represent some 90 % of the luxury automotive market in the US with 2ish % tariffs on our end compared to 10ish % on their end.
 
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Dragonlady

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The History Of Economic Sanctions - History Video! - DickMorris.com

Kind of like 101 for all you self proclaimed experts out there... (either you are in a position of leverage or your not), Just because being economically raped has become the status quo (for the US) doesn't mean that asking for some 'metaphorical' foreplay and dinner is an egregious affront to the various rapists who are now being asked to chip in on the dinner bill. Sure all the rapists will throw a tantrum at any change in their old hat 'behavior'...

Look at the trade deficits we have with the various "partners" around the globe... Germany a wealthy, propped up country doesn't contribute toward their defense as they are 'required' to do. Their fine automobiles represent some 90 % of the luxury automotive market in the US with 2ish % tariffs on our end compared to 10ish % on their end.
The whole point of NATO was to keep Germany from re-arming and starting WWIII. Now Germany is being castigated for not having an army.

For over 100 years, the Allies have tried to keep Germany weak and dependent on others for their defence. After WWI, Germany was economically punished for starting the war. The anger of the German people lead to Hitler’s rise and WWII.

After WWII, the West helped Germany rebuild. No reparations, no punishment and no weapons. Now the US wants Germany to rearm. Madness.
 

KeiserC

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Hmm... my history is a little hazy here. My Grandparents are early 90's and my grandfather served in Germany at the tail end of WWII and he was teens to 20 something yo when he served. I must be really bad at math. Perhaps they are really more like mid 120 yo... lol ...1939 - 45

No one is castigating Germany for not having a "military" just pointing out that they are supposed to chip in for their national defense (the US primarily) & they don't to the extent they are required.

Germany aint gonna be getting a military any time soon btw.

We're not really discussing WWII conditions of surrender and rebuilding either here other than to briefly mention factors from the past and their bearing on current trade negotiations.
 

Erinwltr

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SavannahMann

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The History Of Economic Sanctions - History Video! - DickMorris.com

Kind of like 101 for all you self proclaimed experts out there... (either you are in a position of leverage or your not), Just because being economically raped has become the status quo (for the US) doesn't mean that asking for some 'metaphorical' foreplay and dinner is an egregious affront to the various rapists who are now being asked to chip in on the dinner bill. Sure all the rapists will throw a tantrum at any change in their old hat 'behavior'...

Look at the trade deficits we have with the various "partners" around the globe... Germany a wealthy, propped up country doesn't contribute toward their defense as they are 'required' to do. Their fine automobiles represent some 90 % of the luxury automotive market in the US with 2ish % tariffs on our end compared to 10ish % on their end.
The whole point of NATO was to keep Germany from re-arming and starting WWIII. Now Germany is being castigated for not having an army.

For over 100 years, the Allies have tried to keep Germany weak and dependent on others for their defence. After WWI, Germany was economically punished for starting the war. The anger of the German people lead to Hitler’s rise and WWII.

After WWII, the West helped Germany rebuild. No reparations, no punishment and no weapons. Now the US wants Germany to rearm. Madness.
The purpose of NATO was defense against the Soviet Union. NATO - Wikipedia

The Treaty of Brussels was a mutual defence treaty against the Soviet threat at the start of the Cold War. It was signed on 17 March 1948 by Belgium, the Netherlands, Luxembourg, France, and the United Kingdom. It was the precursor to NATO. The Soviet threat became immediate with the Berlin Blockade in 1948, leading to the creation of a joint defence organization in September 1948.[13] However, the parties were too weak militarily to counter the military power of the USSR. In addition, the 1948 Czechoslovak coup d'état by the Communists had overthrown a democratic government and British Foreign Minister Ernest Bevin reiterated that the best way to prevent another Czechoslovakia was to evolve a joint Western military strategy. He got a receptive hearing in the United States, especially considering American anxiety over Italy (and the Italian Communist Party).[14]
 

longknife

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We're going off topic folks. This thread is NOT about NATO.
 

frigidweirdo

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Trudeau says NAFTA negotiations stalled after Pence demanded sunset clause

Does this idiot not realize Canada and Mexico are in NO WIN SITUATIONS here? If they fail to renegotiate NAFTA then we just pull out and laugh as Mexico and Canada come screaming back for deals! Then we do 1 on 1 deals with them each! We hold ALL the cards!
Maybe. The problem is this isn't just about trade deals.

There's more stuff. Like having allies.

The US used to keep allies happy, and get rich out of it, so that it'd have a force to dominate the world.

China is RISING quickly, and the US is telling it's allies to fuck off even quicker.
 

eagle1462010

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Canada GDP | 1960-2018 | Data | Chart | Calendar | Forecast | News

We import more that twice Canada's GDP....................

Yeah...........they have so much leverage..................We need their oil for now........but with Oil production surging..............It's starting to Sting their asses.................

They are in no position to be tough on us.............We can produce almost anything we need in the United States.......Short term hurt versus long term gain..............and the world knows it...............

They are just pissed that we aren't letting them get away with the NAFTA and WTO BS anymore.

Cry me a River................Put the Hammer down Trump..............
 

longknife

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I think we should stop a moment and ask just what this "sunset clause" means.

Does it mean the treaty is over in 5 years? Or does is just mean that all sides come back to the bargaining table in 5 years?

A huge difference.
 

eagle1462010

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I think we should stop a moment and ask just what this "sunset clause" means.

Does it mean the treaty is over in 5 years? Or does is just mean that all sides come back to the bargaining table in 5 years?

A huge difference.
I believe it means they will hold to the negotiated solutions on Trade for x amount of years........at which point..........time to go to the table again.................
 

Taz

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Trudeau says NAFTA negotiations stalled after Pence demanded sunset clause

Does this idiot not realize Canada and Mexico are in NO WIN SITUATIONS here? If they fail to renegotiate NAFTA then we just pull out and laugh as Mexico and Canada come screaming back for deals! Then we do 1 on 1 deals with them each! We hold ALL the cards!
Canada would be better off with a separate deal anyways. But really, the only thing that's going to happen is that prices will rise for everyone, us, Canada, Mehico, Europe... It's the little guys getting burned by the rich once again. Welcome to Trump's America, it's what you voted for.
 

eagle1462010

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Trudeau says NAFTA negotiations stalled after Pence demanded sunset clause

Does this idiot not realize Canada and Mexico are in NO WIN SITUATIONS here? If they fail to renegotiate NAFTA then we just pull out and laugh as Mexico and Canada come screaming back for deals! Then we do 1 on 1 deals with them each! We hold ALL the cards!
Canada would be better off with a separate deal anyways. But really, the only thing that's going to happen is that prices will rise for everyone, us, Canada, Mehico, Europe... It's the little guys getting burned by the rich once again. Welcome to Trump's America, it's what you voted for.
Yeah............we are all going to die because our Gov't is standing up and negotiating deals for Fair Trade instead of allowing them to fuck us over.........................

You do this .................we will do that.............it's called negotiating............if they walk out with their fucking panties in a wad............we'll make it ourself............or find another supplier..................

Wah...............If Canada stops sending a Product we are all gonna die................Got news for you........This is a big dang world..........................And we can buy from someone else.....................

Guess you don't see that now do you...............

Most of the fight is over steel and aluminum...............and it isn't that big of a deal.
 

Taz

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Trudeau says NAFTA negotiations stalled after Pence demanded sunset clause

Does this idiot not realize Canada and Mexico are in NO WIN SITUATIONS here? If they fail to renegotiate NAFTA then we just pull out and laugh as Mexico and Canada come screaming back for deals! Then we do 1 on 1 deals with them each! We hold ALL the cards!
Canada would be better off with a separate deal anyways. But really, the only thing that's going to happen is that prices will rise for everyone, us, Canada, Mehico, Europe... It's the little guys getting burned by the rich once again. Welcome to Trump's America, it's what you voted for.
Yeah............we are all going to die because our Gov't is standing up and negotiating deals for Fair Trade instead of allowing them to fuck us over.........................

You do this .................we will do that.............it's called negotiating............if they walk out with their fucking panties in a wad............we'll make it ourself............or find another supplier..................

Wah...............If Canada stops sending a Product we are all gonna die................Got news for you........This is a big dang world..........................And we can buy from someone else.....................

Guess you don't see that now do you...............

Most of the fight is over steel and aluminum...............and it isn't that big of a deal.
You just don't understand what's going on. Trump will make steel more expensive by cutting off foreign sources and then Americans sources will be more expensive, as will any imports with duties. When they go build your next car, the steel they use will be more expensive, and who do you think is going to pay for that? You.
 

eagle1462010

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Trudeau says NAFTA negotiations stalled after Pence demanded sunset clause

Does this idiot not realize Canada and Mexico are in NO WIN SITUATIONS here? If they fail to renegotiate NAFTA then we just pull out and laugh as Mexico and Canada come screaming back for deals! Then we do 1 on 1 deals with them each! We hold ALL the cards!
Canada would be better off with a separate deal anyways. But really, the only thing that's going to happen is that prices will rise for everyone, us, Canada, Mehico, Europe... It's the little guys getting burned by the rich once again. Welcome to Trump's America, it's what you voted for.
Yeah............we are all going to die because our Gov't is standing up and negotiating deals for Fair Trade instead of allowing them to fuck us over.........................

You do this .................we will do that.............it's called negotiating............if they walk out with their fucking panties in a wad............we'll make it ourself............or find another supplier..................

Wah...............If Canada stops sending a Product we are all gonna die................Got news for you........This is a big dang world..........................And we can buy from someone else.....................

Guess you don't see that now do you...............

Most of the fight is over steel and aluminum...............and it isn't that big of a deal.
You just don't understand what's going on. Trump will make steel more expensive by cutting off foreign sources and then Americans sources will be more expensive, as will any imports with duties. When they go build your next car, the steel they use will be more expensive, and who do you think is going to pay for that? You.
You just don't understand that when we import all our goods that American Jobs and industry are lost................And that it screws the people who need a decent paycheck to buy the goods corps who have left the reservation produce in 3rd world shit holes.

And you ignore that these countries bitching already use protectionism against us.................If it's so bad then why the hell are they blocking our products..................hmmmm............

Should we stand aside and allow China to over produce...........subsidize products............steal intellectual property and get away with it.................Destroy our means of production..............

Face it.........the only thing people like you care about are your Stock values...........trade it 10000 times a day and make a killing..............speculate your asses off and screw everyone............Self Regulation of the too big to fail ones was such a great idea........screwed the entire countries in a few years............

For over 200 years we didn't have Free Trade.......it worked until people like you said it was broken.
 

Taz

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Trudeau says NAFTA negotiations stalled after Pence demanded sunset clause

Does this idiot not realize Canada and Mexico are in NO WIN SITUATIONS here? If they fail to renegotiate NAFTA then we just pull out and laugh as Mexico and Canada come screaming back for deals! Then we do 1 on 1 deals with them each! We hold ALL the cards!
Canada would be better off with a separate deal anyways. But really, the only thing that's going to happen is that prices will rise for everyone, us, Canada, Mehico, Europe... It's the little guys getting burned by the rich once again. Welcome to Trump's America, it's what you voted for.
Yeah............we are all going to die because our Gov't is standing up and negotiating deals for Fair Trade instead of allowing them to fuck us over.........................

You do this .................we will do that.............it's called negotiating............if they walk out with their fucking panties in a wad............we'll make it ourself............or find another supplier..................

Wah...............If Canada stops sending a Product we are all gonna die................Got news for you........This is a big dang world..........................And we can buy from someone else.....................

Guess you don't see that now do you...............

Most of the fight is over steel and aluminum...............and it isn't that big of a deal.
You just don't understand what's going on. Trump will make steel more expensive by cutting off foreign sources and then Americans sources will be more expensive, as will any imports with duties. When they go build your next car, the steel they use will be more expensive, and who do you think is going to pay for that? You.
You just don't understand that when we import all our goods that American Jobs and industry are lost................And that it screws the people who need a decent paycheck to buy the goods corps who have left the reservation produce in 3rd world shit holes.

And you ignore that these countries bitching already use protectionism against us.................If it's so bad then why the hell are they blocking our products..................hmmmm............

Should we stand aside and allow China to over produce...........subsidize products............steal intellectual property and get away with it.................Destroy our means of production..............

Face it.........the only thing people like you care about are your Stock values...........trade it 10000 times a day and make a killing..............speculate your asses off and screw everyone............Self Regulation of the too big to fail ones was such a great idea........screwed the entire countries in a few years............

For over 200 years we didn't have Free Trade.......it worked until people like you said it was broken.
So when you bring your jobs back, everything will be more expensive, that's why the jobs were lost in the first place, we couldn't compete in certain sectors as well as we do in others. If you're ok about paying a good amount more for steel and other things, then you're happy. But Harleys got caught up in this so now they cost more in Europe, and that will cost jobs here in the US. So it works both ways.
 

eagle1462010

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Trudeau says NAFTA negotiations stalled after Pence demanded sunset clause

Does this idiot not realize Canada and Mexico are in NO WIN SITUATIONS here? If they fail to renegotiate NAFTA then we just pull out and laugh as Mexico and Canada come screaming back for deals! Then we do 1 on 1 deals with them each! We hold ALL the cards!
Canada would be better off with a separate deal anyways. But really, the only thing that's going to happen is that prices will rise for everyone, us, Canada, Mehico, Europe... It's the little guys getting burned by the rich once again. Welcome to Trump's America, it's what you voted for.
Yeah............we are all going to die because our Gov't is standing up and negotiating deals for Fair Trade instead of allowing them to fuck us over.........................

You do this .................we will do that.............it's called negotiating............if they walk out with their fucking panties in a wad............we'll make it ourself............or find another supplier..................

Wah...............If Canada stops sending a Product we are all gonna die................Got news for you........This is a big dang world..........................And we can buy from someone else.....................

Guess you don't see that now do you...............

Most of the fight is over steel and aluminum...............and it isn't that big of a deal.
You just don't understand what's going on. Trump will make steel more expensive by cutting off foreign sources and then Americans sources will be more expensive, as will any imports with duties. When they go build your next car, the steel they use will be more expensive, and who do you think is going to pay for that? You.
You just don't understand that when we import all our goods that American Jobs and industry are lost................And that it screws the people who need a decent paycheck to buy the goods corps who have left the reservation produce in 3rd world shit holes.

And you ignore that these countries bitching already use protectionism against us.................If it's so bad then why the hell are they blocking our products..................hmmmm............

Should we stand aside and allow China to over produce...........subsidize products............steal intellectual property and get away with it.................Destroy our means of production..............

Face it.........the only thing people like you care about are your Stock values...........trade it 10000 times a day and make a killing..............speculate your asses off and screw everyone............Self Regulation of the too big to fail ones was such a great idea........screwed the entire countries in a few years............

For over 200 years we didn't have Free Trade.......it worked until people like you said it was broken.
So when you bring your jobs back, everything will be more expensive, that's why the jobs were lost in the first place, we couldn't compete in certain sectors as well as we do in others. If you're ok about paying a good amount more for steel and other things, then you're happy. But Harleys got caught up in this so now they cost more in Europe, and that will cost jobs here in the US. So it works both ways.
Of course it does...............that's why you negotiate.............

How long did China and Japan ban our beef products into their countries..............And they just allowed their sales there now....................

They ban our products............and then expect free trade back...........Yeah........it works both ways and our policies have made it a ONE WAY STREET for them................But you only champion them.........and their unfair Trade practices.........and expect the WTO FOREIGN courts to decide what is best for the United States..............who have ruled in favor of the countries screwing us...............

Some choose to force them to FAIR TRADE............others don't care if our industries die as long as they make a buck on the speculative markets............

Trump is negotiating............for better deals like before these BS agreements where we must go to Foreign court to decide what is best for us................Something that we should have never done.

The Globalist Wet Dream..........of cheap labor and huge profits at the cost of our jobs in the United States.............

Someone is finally swinging back..........and forcing negotiation.............and we have a hell of a lot of leverage at 3.8 Trillion a year in imports.
 

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