Treason At Pearl Harbor.

[RetiredGySgt]

Next, he will yell us Japan tried to surrender before the atomic bombs were dropped.

 

[goodluck]

Next, he will yell us Japan tried to surrender before the atomic bombs were dropped.

Not even close. And don't worry about what I will say next. Concentrate on what I said here. And the fact is that FDR knew the Japanese were going to attack Pearl Harbor. The only thing he did about it was make sure our two most valuable ships, our aircraft carriers, were out to sea at the time.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Not even close. And don't worry about what I will say next. Concentrate on what I said here. And the fact is that FDR knew the Japanese were going to attack Pearl Harbor. The only thing he did about it was make sure our two most valuable ships, our aircraft carriers, were out to sea at the time.

At the time of the Pearl Harbor attack no one in the US thought Carriers were a decisive arm of the Navy, they still thought Battleships were Queen of the seas. As did the Japanese that's why they sank them.

 

[goodluck]

At the time of the Pearl Harbor attack no one in the US thought Carriers were a decisive arm of the Navy, they still thought Battleships were Queen of the seas. As did the Japanese that's why they sank them.

You are hallucinating. Everybody back then new the value of aircraft carriers over battle ships. Which the Japanese proved beyond doubt in their attack on Pearl Harbor. Maybe you should give this website a look.



The National Interest
nationalinterest.org › blog › the-buzz › 1921-controversial-us-military-experiment-sunk-the-era-the-18736

In 1921, a Controversial U.S. Military Experiment 'Sunk' the Era of the Battleship | The National Interest

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Learn real history not your made up shit

 

[goodluck]

Learn real history not your made up shit

Do me a favor and just stop replying to me. I have better things to do than to talk to stupid people.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Do me a favor and just stop replying to me. I have better things to do than to talk to stupid people.

the stupid one is you.

 

[mikegriffith1]

The big problem with history written by the victors is that everything else, such as the truth, becomes a "conspiracy theory." But the truth of the matter is that FDR knew well in advance when the Japanese were going to attack Pearl Harbor. Making all of the servicemen who died in the attack suckers. If I were a ghost of any of those killed there, I wouldn't have the least interest in any "honor" you may pay me and the others who died. I would be more interested in JUSTICE! Such as by having the real story come out. I will show you a number of websites that show that FDR knew well in advance what the Japanese were planning on doing and when. The first two bring up what cryptographers themselves had to say. This first one is from a letter written by somebody named Lietwiler to Parke. The really telling part of it is it speaking of the Japanese naval code. It says, "By November 16, 1941 (Manila time) Lietweiler informed Parke that he was "reading enough current traffic to keep two translators very busy." Here is the website.

Pearl Harbor Document: Letter from Leitweiler to Parke | Robert B. Stinnett

Pearl Harbor Document: Letter from Leitweiler to Parke: The...​

Obviously, it was in FDR's best interest to keep this information as secret as possible. And it is still being kept secret. For any cryptographers back then, it was in their best interest to shut up about the matter. In this next website it speaks of another cryptographer named William Friedman. Though what he had to say came from what his wife had to say on the matter. Probably after his death. I would assume it is what happened when they both heard about the 'surprise" attack on Pearl Harbor. He paced back and forth in their home and muttered to himself repeatedly, "But they knew, they knew, they knew." Here is the website that speaks of it and other matters.


https://covertactionmagazine.com/20...dence-demonstrating-government-foreknowledge/

Eighty Years of Lies: President... - CovertAction Magazine​

This next website posts a quote that was stated by an army board of inquiry in 1944. It says, "...everything that the Japanese were planning to do was known to the United States..." Here is the website.

Pearl Harbor - Mother of All Conspiracies

Pearl Harbor - Mother of All Conspiracies​

Here is another website for you on the matter.

https://thefreethoughtproject.com/the-state/pearl-harbor-81st-anniversary

81 Years After Pearl Harbor, We... - The Free Thought Project​

Pearl Harbor Document: Letter from Leitweiler to Parke | Robert B. Stinnett

Yes, there is quite a bit of evidence that FDR knew the Japanese were going to attack Pearl Harbor.

Have you heard of the Hoover-Ladd memos? They were released in 1979, but no one read them until Tom Kimmel, Admiral Kimmel's grandson, came across them and then started writing about them. The Hoover-Ladd memos proves that Army intelligence knew about the impending attack several days before it occurred. I discuss this in my 2021 book The Real Infamy of Pearl Harbor.

FDR and his accomplices in the cabinet and the War Department believed that the Japanese would do minimal damage to Pearl Harbor, because they believed the Japanese were poor fighters. They figured that the minimal damage would be an acceptable price to pay to get the American public enraged so that FDR could get the U.S. involved in the war.

One of the reasons that Secretary of the Navy Frank Knox decided to tell a close friend, Admiral Tolley, about FDR's foreknowledge was that he was so shocked by the extensive damage that the Japanese inflicted and because he was angry that someone had blocked the delivery of the warning he sent to Kimmel late on December 6. Admiral Tolley later revealed Knox's disclosure.

 

[DudleySmith]

lol

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

This above is ingenious, but the conclusion is false. The attack was a fault of the high command but not deliberate.

On the side: Your imagination is very, very ripe. Get in touch with Harry Turtle dove and see if you can sell him some script ideas.

 

[whitehall]

The media writes the history books and the media was actually a part of the FDR administration when FDR threw out the 1st and 5th Amendments. A logical theory is that FDR and his cabinet were afflicted with a racial bias and as such they thought a couple of bullets fired by the Japanese at a Battleship might convince Americans to get into the real war in Europe. The administration tragically misjudged the Japanese but they had the media to cover their tracks.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

There was no plot to encourage the Japanese to attack.

The US economically attacked Japan after it seized French Indo-China in 1940, and the Japanese thought they had to go to war.

 

[mikegriffith1]

There was no plot to encourage the Japanese to attack.

You clearly have done little reading on this subject.

The US economically attacked Japan after it seized French Indo-China in 1940, and the Japanese thought they had to go to war.

That is a superficial, public-school-textbook version of what happened.

RetiredGySgt said:
Next, he will yell us Japan tried to surrender before the atomic bombs were dropped.

Oh my goodness. The fact that Japan's civilian leadership, along with some sensible military leaders, were trying to surrender weeks before we nuked Hiroshima has been profusely documented. We have also known for years that Truman was aware weeks before Hiroshima that the emperor wanted to surrender and that he was hoping the Soviets would help Japan negotiate the surrender terms with the U.S.

Yet, Truman stubbornly and immorally refused to even give Japan private assurance that the emperor would not be deposed in a surrender, even though he knew this was the only real concern among the Japanese about a surrender.

Even Gen. MacArthur said after the war that if Truman had simply given the Japanese private assurance that the emperor would not be deposed, the war could have been ended without using nukes. Many other senior American military officers, including Eisenhower, said that we did not need to nuke Japan to end the war on satisfactory terms.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

You clearly have done little reading on this subject.



That is a superficial, public-school-textbook version of what happened.



Oh my goodness. The fact that Japan's civilian leadership, along with some sensible military leaders, were trying to surrender weeks before we nuked Hiroshima has been profusely documented. We have also known for years that Truman was aware weeks before Hiroshima that the emperor wanted to surrender and that he was hoping the Soviets would help Japan negotiate the surrender terms with the U.S.

Yet, Truman stubbornly and immorally refused to even give Japan private assurance that the emperor would not be deposed in a surrender, even though he knew this was the only real concern among the Japanese about a surrender.

Even Gen. MacArthur said after the war that if Truman had simply given the Japanese private assurance that the emperor would not be deposed, the war could have been ended without using nukes. Many other senior American military officers, including Eisenhower, said that we did not need to nuke Japan to end the war on satisfactory terms.

and yet the actual government of Japan did not surrender even after 2 atomic bombs were dropped. And then the Military staged a Coup to stop the surrender.

 

[mikegriffith1]

and yet the actual government of Japan did not surrender even after 2 atomic bombs were dropped. And then the Military staged a Coup to stop the surrender.

This is just pitiful distortion and omission. Most of "the actual government of Japan" wanted to surrender weeks before Hiroshima, and Truman knew it--but instead of acting to end the war without further bloodshed, he did everything possible to sabotage the moderates and to strengthen the hand of the Japanese militarists who were opposed to surrender.

A small faction of the military staged a coup, and their coup failed because most of the military rejected it, including General Anami and Admiral Suzuki.

And Japanese records make it clear that it was the Soviet invasion that caused Japan to surrender, not the nukes.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

This is just pitiful distortion and omission. Most of "the actual government of Japan" wanted to surrender weeks before Hiroshima, and Truman knew it--but instead of acting to end the war without further bloodshed, he did everything possible to sabotage the moderates and to strengthen the hand of the Japanese militarists who were opposed to surrender.

A small faction of the military staged a coup, and their coup failed because most of the military rejected it, including General Anami and Admiral Suzuki.

And Japanese records make it clear that it was the Soviet invasion that caused Japan to surrender, not the nukes.

No, it does not the Soviets couldn't even reach Japan for months. I have the source documents on the atomic bombs linked and saved, it is clear that the actual 6 men that ruled Japan did not want to surrender. It took the intervention of the emperor to surrender and that was after 2 bombs and after both the Government 6 voted not to surrender. Pedal your revisionist garbage somewhere else.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Mike Griffin thinks he is an historian, when in fact he is a conspiracy enthusiast.

 

[goodluck]

the stupid one is you.

I posted a link that talked of REAL history. Also, Japanese planes from aircraft carriers sure did a number on our battle ships in Pearl Harbor. Didn't they. So without a doubt, you are the one being stupid in that regard. Battleships might be good for shelling land positions. But when it comes to projecting power over a distance, they can't compare to aircraft carriers.

 

[mikegriffith1]

No, it does not the Soviets couldn't even reach Japan for months. I have the source documents on the atomic bombs linked and saved, it is clear that the actual 6 men that ruled Japan did not want to surrender. It took the intervention of the emperor to surrender and that was after 2 bombs and after both the Government 6 voted not to surrender. Pedal your revisionist garbage somewhere else.

You're the one peddling revisionist garbage, and unbelievable ignorance. Were MacArthur and Eisenhower "revisionists"? No, Truman and his cronies were the revisionists, and it is sad to see a veteran defending that bunch.

The Soviets couldn't reach Japan "for months"??? Gosh, you must be kidding. What a surreal, erroneous, and ignorant statement.

Yes, yikes, it took the intervention of the emperor to bring about surrender--because Truman refused to say whether or not the emperor would be deposed in a surrender! The militarists played that card over and over again, thanks to Truman. The whole point is that most or all of the militarists would have been stymied if Truman had guaranteed that the emperor would not be deposed in a surrender. If nothing else, their influence would have been greatly weakened if this assurance had been given.

This point is worth repeating: The emperor himself initiated the approach to the Soviets about negotiating a surrender weeks before Hiroshima, and Truman knew it.

Your collection of source documents must be incomplete or doctored, or you are misrepresenting their content, or a mix of all three. As many scholars have established, the source documents make it crystal clear that the Soviet invasion of Manchuria caused Japan to surrender, not the atomic bombs. I'm guessing you know nothing about a major study commissioned by Columbia University that found that the nuking of Japan was not the reason Japan surrendered.

The study was commissioned by the Weatherhead East Asian Institute at Columbia University and was done by Dr. Yukiko Koshiro. She gained unprecedented access to Japanese archives to examine Japan’s relations with the Soviet Union and continental Asia before and during WWII. During her research, she uncovered clear evidence that the Soviet Union’s entry into the war was, by far, the main reason that Japan surrendered, and that the atomic bombings played no more than a minor role in the surrender decision and, even then, only among the moderates, who were already looking for any excuse to end the war. In her highly acclaimed book, Imperial Eclipse: Japan's Strategic Thinking about Continental Asia before August 1945 (Cornell University Press, 2013), Dr. Koshiro includes an entire chapter on Japan’s surrender.

Dr. Koshiro’s publisher, Cornell University Press, discusses the access that she was able to obtain:

Through unprecedented archival research, Koshiro has located documents and reports expunged from the files of the Japanese Cabinet, ministries of Foreign Affairs and War, and Imperial Headquarters, allowing her to reconstruct Japan’s official thinking about its plans for continental Asia. She brings to light new information on the assumptions and resulting plans that Japan’s leaders made as military defeat became increasingly certain.

Here are some excerpts from Dr. Koshiro’s chapter on Japan’s surrender:

Official Japanese documents, both military and diplomatic, hardly portray the atomic bombs as a force that compelled Japan’s surrender. . . .

Even at that very moment [one day after Hiroshima], Togo was pressing Ambassador Sato to discuss the special peace mission with Molotov. Togo’s actions did not indicate any urgency to surrender immediately. The atomic bomb itself did not precipitate a Japanese decision to surrender. News of the Soviet attack, in contrast, served as the catalyst for the Supreme Council for the Direction of the War to form within thirty hours a consensus to surrender and to accept the Potsdam Proclamation.

The final log of the top secret war journal, which was resumed on August 9 by Lieutenant Colonel Takeshita Masahiko of the Military Affairs Section, Ministry of War, depicted the Soviet declaration of war against Japan as the decisive reason for an emergency meeting of the Supreme Council for the Direction of the War.

Thus approximately twelve hours after the Soviet declaration of war against Japan, the Japanese government was already discussing acceptance of the Potsdam Proclamation. At 11:30 a.m., news of the second atomic bomb reached the Supreme Council for the Direction of the War. The news of Nagasaki had little impact on the substance of the discussion of the day, which had already been defined by the Soviet declaration of war.

Around 4:00 a.m., August 10, Togo returned to the Foreign Ministry to draft a text of surrender to telegraph to Ministers Shunichi Kase in Switzerland and Suemasa Okamoto in Sweden. Between 6:45 a.m. and 10:15 a.m., five telegrams were dispatched containing Japan’s decision to accept the Potsdam Proclamation, including the interpretation that the “said Declaration does not comprise any demand which prejudices the prerogatives of His Majesty as a sovereign ruler.” Togo in these communications never mentioned the two atomic bombs as the reason for Japan’s decision to accept the Potsdam Proclamation. MAGIC intercepts of Japanese cables also showed that the atomic bomb was neither mentioned in the Japanese Army General message to Japan’s military attaches in Sweden, Switzerland, and Portugal, nor cited as a reason for the surrender. The first telegram Togo sent to Kase in Switzerland and Okamoto in Sweden at 6:45 a.m. on August 10 simply mentioned Japan’s readiness to accept the Potsdam Proclamation. The second telegram sent to both at 7:15 a.m. specifically mentioned that the failure to bring peace via the Soviet government precipitated the Japanese decision.

The top secret war journal did not mention the second atomic bomb at all in the entry for August 9. From then until August 15, there were only two instances in the top secret war journal on the atomic bomb. (Imperial Eclipse, pp. 236-241, emphasis added)

 

[goodluck]

Yes, there is quite a bit of evidence that FDR knew the Japanese were going to attack Pearl Harbor.

Have you heard of the Hoover-Ladd memos? They were released in 1979, but no one read them until Tom Kimmel, Admiral Kimmel's grandson, came across them and then started writing about them. The Hoover-Ladd memos proves that Army intelligence knew about the impending attack several days before it occurred. I discuss this in my 2021 book The Real Infamy of Pearl Harbor.

FDR and his accomplices in the cabinet and the War Department believed that the Japanese would do minimal damage to Pearl Harbor, because they believed the Japanese were poor fighters. They figured that the minimal damage would be an acceptable price to pay to get the American public enraged so that FDR could get the U.S. involved in the war.

One of the reasons that Secretary of the Navy Frank Knox decided to tell a close friend, Admiral Tolley, about FDR's foreknowledge was that he was so shocked by the extensive damage that the Japanese inflicted and because he was angry that someone had blocked the delivery of the warning he sent to Kimmel late on December 6. Admiral Tolley later revealed Knox's disclosure.

I just looked up the Hoover - Ladd memos. If they didn't share their information with the military, what good was it. But that aside, the government already knew when and where the Japanese were going to attack. Because the Japanese naval code had been solved at least a couple weeks before hand. Even then, the Japanese task force didn't maintain radio silence. By triangulation, we could tell exactly where it was and where it was heading. Just by that alone, the U.S. should have figured out what was going to happen.

Next, I'm not buying the story that those who knew the Japanese were going to attack didn't count on the amount of damage they would be able to do. After all, what if it was an equal number of our own aircraft dropping bombs or releasing torpedoes at what would basically be sitting ducks. Even the battleships. Any idiot would realize that they would be able to do significant damage. Which is what the Japanese planes did.

As for Tom Kimmel, I applaud his efforts to remove the tarnished image of Admiral Kimmel. I of course believe that he was kept in the dark in the whole matter to achieve the "surprise" attack FDR wanted so badly. Though there is something on the whole matter I would like to know. Our two aircraft carriers were out to sea at the time of the attack. I would like to know who ordered them to be out to sea at the time. The timing of it just seems a little too fortuitous.