Treason At Pearl Harbor.

[0311]

No it wasn't.

In the American Press it seldom front page news. We both know how most of White America felt about China at the time.

 

[Unkotare]

The Japanese Invasion of Manchuria was largely ignore by the U.S. Press. ...

 

[0311]

View attachment 984920

View attachment 984921

Only two headlines. WOW

 

[Unkotare]

There's something about history that makes people want to believe they have special possession of what was/is common knowledge. No harm in it, I suppose.

 

[DudleySmith]

When judging 20th-century Imperial Japan, one must understand that there were two main factions: the militarists and the non-militarists. Many of the militarists were as bad as the worst Stalinists and Nazis. Some of the militarists, such as Anami and Ishiwara, though bad, opposed violence against the government and occasionally sought to reign in the more radical militarists.

Virtually all of the non-militarists wanted to end the war in China on fair terms and wanted peace with the U.S. There was a range of moderation among the non-militarists, just as there was a range of militarism among the militarists. But nearly all non-militarists thought the war in China was a mistake, were willing to withdraw Japanese troops from virtually all of China (except for a temporary and small buffer zone between China and Japan's Manchurian state, Manchukuo), wanted to extend full citizenship to Korean subjects, and wanted good relations with the U.S.

The non-militarists probably constituted at least 75% of the population, but the militarists largely controlled the military and could usually intimidate or threaten the government into going along with their plans and policies.

Both the militarists and the non-militarists were fiercely anti-communist and pro-capitalist.

FDR and his ilk acted as though the militarists were Japan and represented all Japanese. They endorsed the erroneous view that nearly all Japanese were militarists. We see these same attitudes expressed in this thread.

Even some of the militarists did not want war with the U.S. As mentioned, virtually all of the non-militarists, including the emperor and most of the civilian members of the cabinet, did not want war with the U.S. This is why Konoye proposed very reasonable peace terms to FDR (and, surprisingly enough, Tojo did not weaken or withdraw any of those terms when he became prime minister).

Our ambassador to Japan, Joseph Grew, warned FDR and Cordell Hull (SecState) that Konoye was offering the best peace terms he dared to offer, and that he risked assassination if he offered better terms. By any objective standard, Konoye's terms were reasonable and could have led to the end of the war in China and could have avoided Pearl Harbor. But FDR ignored Grew's sound advice and spurned all of Japan's peace offers, which enabled the militarists to get approval to attack Pearl Harbor.

Most of Japan's leaders did not want war with the U.S., and the vast majority of the Japanese people agreed with them. But FDR, determined to drag America into WWII, played right into the hands of the militarists and sabotaged the non-militarists by imposing draconian sanctions on Japan and rejecting all of Japan's peace offers. It is a matter of historical fact that FDR viewed provoking Japan to war as the best means to get the U.S. into WWII.

A big pile of apologist rubbish, trying to paint Japs as hapless victims of a small minority. lol fail.

 

[Stryder50]

Great. Another chance to show you how stupid you are. I have a link for you. In the document, look up 8 paragraphs from the bottom. You will see this statement. "Up to the morning of December 7, 1941, everything the Japanese were planning to do was known to the United States...."

"Up to the morning of December 7, 1941, everything that the Japanese were planning to do was known to the United States…." -- Top Secret Report of Army Pearl Harbor Board (October 20, 1944)

I don't have time to go through all this thread, especially after this post (which has been cited in another thread), but the paragraphs before and after the "8th" dispute there being precise information of date, time, and place.
....

"There, therefore, can be no question that between the dates of December
4 and December 6 the imminence of war on the following Saturday and
Sunday, December 6 and 7 was [16] clear-cut and definite. (P. 15)"

The evidence does not seem to justify any such conclusion. There was not
received between the dates of 4 December and 6 December any information
which indicated that war would take place on Saturday or Sunday, 6 and 7
December. It is true that on the night of 6 December the War Department
received the intercepted text of thirteen parts of the fourteen-part
reply of the Japanese Government to the proposal of the United States,
but this at most suggested a possible breach of diplomatic relations at
some time in the near future, which may or may not have been followed by
war. The only other information that was received between 4 and 6
December of significance, in addition to what had already been
transmitted to General Short, was information received on 4 December
that certain Japanese diplomatic and consular posts had been instructed
to destroy certain codes. As I have heretofore pointed out, this
information was fully available to General Short from his own sources in
Hawaii. The intercept which indicated that the Japanese reply was to be
delivered at 1:00 p. m., Washington Time on 7 December was, as
heretofore pointed out, not received until the morning of 7 December and
it itself was not a "clear-cut and definite" indication that war would
occur at that time. The Board further found:

"Up to the morning of December 7, 1941, everything that the Japanese
were planning to do was known to the United States except the final
message instructing the Japanese Embassy to present the 14th part
together with the preceding 13 parts of the long message at one o'clock
on December 7, or the very hour and minute when bombs were falling on
Pearl Harbor. (P. 18)"

This statement is ambiguous but if it implies that it was known that the
Japanese were going to attack Pearl Harbor on 7 December 1941, this is
not the fact. There is no justification in the evidence for such a
statement.
​

 

[toobfreak]

But the truth of the matter is that FDR knew well in advance when the Japanese were going to attack Pearl Harbor. Making all of the servicemen who died in the attack suckers.

Hey sucker, my uncle died aboard the Arizona and he was no sucker. His body still lies as the bottom of Pearl Harbor. Pearl Harbor largely happened because the Navy arrogantly believed no one would try to attack us so far into our own defenses and not just Guam or some such other place. Also because we wrongly believed the Japanese were negotiating for peace. Thirdly because our defenses were unusually low that day.

So much so that when the radar of the approaching Japanese fleet was spotted, they ignored it thinking it must be own own ships deployed to the north.

 

[gipper]

The big problem with history written by the victors is that everything else, such as the truth, becomes a "conspiracy theory." But the truth of the matter is that FDR knew well in advance when the Japanese were going to attack Pearl Harbor. Making all of the servicemen who died in the attack suckers. If I were a ghost of any of those killed there, I wouldn't have the least interest in any "honor" you may pay me and the others who died. I would be more interested in JUSTICE! Such as by having the real story come out. I will show you a number of websites that show that FDR knew well in advance what the Japanese were planning on doing and when. The first two bring up what cryptographers themselves had to say. This first one is from a letter written by somebody named Lietwiler to Parke. The really telling part of it is it speaking of the Japanese naval code. It says, "By November 16, 1941 (Manila time) Lietweiler informed Parke that he was "reading enough current traffic to keep two translators very busy." Here is the website.

Pearl Harbor Document: Letter from Leitweiler to Parke: News Article – Independent Institute

Pearl Harbor Document: Letter from Leitweiler to Parke: The...​

Obviously, it was in FDR's best interest to keep this information as secret as possible. And it is still being kept secret. For any cryptographers back then, it was in their best interest to shut up about the matter. In this next website it speaks of another cryptographer named William Friedman. Though what he had to say came from what his wife had to say on the matter. Probably after his death. I would assume it is what happened when they both heard about the 'surprise" attack on Pearl Harbor. He paced back and forth in their home and muttered to himself repeatedly, "But they knew, they knew, they knew." Here is the website that speaks of it and other matters.


Eighty Years of Lies: President Franklin Roosevelt Told Public Pearl Harbor Was A Surprise Attack—However There Is Considerable Evidence Demonstrating Government Foreknowledge - CovertAction Magazine

Eighty Years of Lies: President... - CovertAction Magazine​

This next website posts a quote that was stated by an army board of inquiry in 1944. It says, "...everything that the Japanese were planning to do was known to the United States..." Here is the website.

Pearl Harbor - Mother of All Conspiracies

Pearl Harbor - Mother of All Conspiracies​

Here is another website for you on the matter.

https://thefreethoughtproject.com/the-state/pearl-harbor-81st-anniversary

81 Years After Pearl Harbor, We... - The Free Thought Project​

Pearl Harbor Document: Letter from Leitweiler to Parke: News Article – Independent Institute​

There is too much circumstantial evidence against FDR to believe he didn’t know what was coming.

Just a few facts:
1. FDR demanded the US Navy Pacific fleet be moved to Pearl Harbor. When the commander of the Pacific Fleet said no, FDR fired him and got a flunky in to get it done. It was clear the fleet couldn’t be protected at Pearl Harbor.
2. The carriers were moved out just prior to the attack, to deliver planes to Midway Island and Wake Island. Leaving behind mostly antiquated WWI battleships of little consequence.
3. “Vacant Sea” orders issued by four star admiral Ingersoll which cleared the ocean of shipping for the Japanese fleet to descend on Pearl. The good admiral also directed Kimmel to stop ship patrols into the area where the Japanese fleet approached.
4. The Japanese military communication codes were broken by the US PRIOR to the attack on Pearl Harbor. The US knew all along were the Japanese fleet was and what it’s intended target was.
5. FDR placed extreme harsh economic sanctions on Japan prior to the attack. Essentially depriving Japan of oil. Thus forcing their hand.
6. FDR’s favorite battleship the Indianapolis receives orders to ship out immediately. It leaves Pearl with half its crew ashore on leave, just prior to Japan’s attack.
7. Discussions were made by FDR and top administration officials to position Japan to attack. They knew Japan had a history of surprise attacks.
8. FDR desperately wanted war to help the UK and USSR. War is the health of the state…FDR loves a healthy state.

Who benefits?

FDR had been desperately trying to get Germany to sink US shipping, without success. Trying Wilson’s playbook…remember the Lusitania. He was actively supplying the UK with all sorts of armaments, without informing Congress. He told the American people repeatedly in the 1940 campaign their boys weren’t going to war. Of course that was a lie. The country was adamant about not getting into another terrible war.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

There is too much circumstantial evidence against FDR to believe he didn’t know what was coming.

Just a few facts:
1. FDR demanded the US Navy Pacific fleet be moved to Pearl Harbor. When the commander of the Pacific Fleet said no, FDR fired him and got a flunky in to get it done. It was clear the fleet couldn’t be protected at Pearl Harbor.
2. The carriers were moved out just prior to the attack, to deliver planes to Midway Island and Wake Island. Leaving behind mostly antiquated WWI battleships of little consequence.
3. “Vacant Sea” orders issued by four star admiral Ingersoll which cleared the ocean of shipping for the Japanese fleet to descend on Pearl. The good admiral also directed Kimmel to stop ship patrols into the area where the Japanese fleet approached.
4. The Japanese military communication codes were broken by the US PRIOR to the attack on Pearl Harbor. The US knew all along were the Japanese fleet was and what it’s intended target was.
5. FDR placed extreme harsh economic sanctions on Japan prior to the attack. Essentially depriving Japan of oil. Thus forcing their hand.
6. FDR’s favorite battleship the Indianapolis receives orders to ship out immediately. It leaves Pearl with half its crew ashore on leave, just prior to Japan’s attack.
7. Discussions were made by FDR and top administration officials to position Japan to attack. They knew Japan had a history of surprise attacks.
8. FDR desperately wanted war to help the UK and USSR. War is the health of the state…FDR loves a healthy state.

Who benefits?

FDR had been desperately trying to get Germany to sink US shipping, without success. Trying Wilson’s playbook…remember the Lusitania. He was actively supplying the UK with all sorts of armaments, without informing Congress. He told the American people repeatedly in the 1940 campaign their boys weren’t going to war. Of course that was a lie. The country was adamant about not getting into another terrible war.

sure thing retard. Debunked garbage in garbage out.

 

[gipper]

sure thing retard. Debunked garbage in garbage out.

Your beloved FDR set up events and knew it was coming, but refused to warn. FACT!!!

Accept it you dumb grunt. Man up boy. It’s time to realize your unconditional love of the state, is dumb as ****. Be a man for once!!!

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Your beloved FDR set up events and knew it was coming, but refused to warn. FACT!!!

Accept it you dumb grunt. Man up boy. It’s time to realize your unconditional love of the state, is dumb as ****. Be a man for once!!!

I don't like FDR he was a sick old man that sold us out to Stalin, but he didn't lie us into war you reject.

 

[gipper]

I don't like FDR he was a sick old man that sold us out to Stalin, but he didn't lie us into war you reject.

Yet you’ve done no research. Probably haven’t read a book in decades. You’ve learned nothing since 4th grade government school.

Hence your opinion is of no valve. You know nothing.

As old as you are, one would think you’d know the truth about government and politicians.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Yet you’ve done no research. Probably haven’t read a book in decades. You’ve learned nothing since 4th grade government school.

Hence your opinion is of no valve. You know nothing.

As old as you are, one would think you’d know the truth about government and politicians.

retard I am a history buff I have read all kind of stuff on WW2 unlike you I don't buy into conspiracy stuff dreamed up years later in hindsight. I don't believe the atomic bombs were wrong either dumb ass we were facing an aggressive enemy that didn't surrender.

 

[Unkotare]

Yet you’ve done no research. Probably haven’t read a book in decades. You’ve learned nothing since 4th grade government school.

Hence your opinion is of no valve. You know nothing.

As old as you are, one would think you’d know the truth about government and politicians.

You are NOT an anarchist. Stop pretending.

 

[gipper]

You are NOT an anarchist. Stop pretending.

You continue to make assertions without ever providing proof. Why?

You are like a child screaming for no reason.

 

[gipper]

retard I am a history buff I have read all kind of stuff on WW2 unlike you I don't buy into conspiracy stuff dreamed up years later in hindsight. I don't believe the atomic bombs were wrong either dumb ass we were facing an aggressive enemy that didn't surrender.

You know history promoted by court historians, which are myths promoted by the state.

Man up son!

 

[Unkotare]

You continue to make assertions without ever providing proof. Why?

You are like a child screaming for no reason.

You live in the US, don't you?

 

[Soupnazi630]

There is too much circumstantial evidence against FDR to believe he didn’t know what was coming.

Just a few facts:
1. FDR demanded the US Navy Pacific fleet be moved to Pearl Harbor. When the commander of the Pacific Fleet said no, FDR fired him and got a flunky in to get it done. It was clear the fleet couldn’t be protected at Pearl Harbor.
2. The carriers were moved out just prior to the attack, to deliver planes to Midway Island and Wake Island. Leaving behind mostly antiquated WWI battleships of little consequence.
3. “Vacant Sea” orders issued by four star admiral Ingersoll which cleared the ocean of shipping for the Japanese fleet to descend on Pearl. The good admiral also directed Kimmel to stop ship patrols into the area where the Japanese fleet approached.
4. The Japanese military communication codes were broken by the US PRIOR to the attack on Pearl Harbor. The US knew all along were the Japanese fleet was and what it’s intended target was.
5. FDR placed extreme harsh economic sanctions on Japan prior to the attack. Essentially depriving Japan of oil. Thus forcing their hand.
6. FDR’s favorite battleship the Indianapolis receives orders to ship out immediately. It leaves Pearl with half its crew ashore on leave, just prior to Japan’s attack.
7. Discussions were made by FDR and top administration officials to position Japan to attack. They knew Japan had a history of surprise attacks.
8. FDR desperately wanted war to help the UK and USSR. War is the health of the state…FDR loves a healthy state.

Who benefits?

FDR had been desperately trying to get Germany to sink US shipping, without success. Trying Wilson’s playbook…remember the Lusitania. He was actively supplying the UK with all sorts of armaments, without informing Congress. He told the American people repeatedly in the 1940 campaign their boys weren’t going to war. Of course that was a lie. The country was adamant about not getting into another terrible war.

None of that is true dumbass

1. The fleet was moved to pearl in 1940 before the japanese even thought of attacking.

2. The carriers were actually on a normal scheduled trainiing exercise which is not suspicious.

3. Ingersoll gave no such order BOY

4. the US only broke a few codes before pearl Harbor and they werre diplomatic codes not military

5. The sanctions were justified and legitimate.

6. The USS Indienapolis was not a Battleship it was a cruiser and was not ordered anywhere by FDR

7. Discussions of other countries intentions are normal and not evidence of jackshit.

AS ALWAYS you are a childish and weak liar which cannot do any research worth a damn

Your claims are all bullshit and proven lies

 

[gipper]

You live in the US, don't you?

So?

 

[AZrailwhale]

Hey sucker, my uncle died aboard the Arizona and he was no sucker. His body still lies as the bottom of Pearl Harbor. Pearl Harbor largely happened because the Navy arrogantly believed no one would try to attack us so far into our own defenses and not just Guam or some such other place. Also because we wrongly believed the Japanese were negotiating for peace. Thirdly because our defenses were unusually low that day.

So much so that when the radar of the approaching Japanese fleet was spotted, they ignored it thinking it must be own own ships deployed to the north.

Youve got a lot of things wrong. The USN believed (correctly) that the IJN lacked the tankers to support an attack so far from Japan. The IJN had to impress nearly every fast civilian tanker to support the Pearl Harbor attack. Losing them would have crippled the Japanese economy for the rest of the much shorter war. The Japanese took insane risks in December of 1941 and early 1942 to grab as much territory as possible.

As for the radar, the American radar never spotted the Japanese fleet, it was hundreds of miles away, it spotted the incoming Japanese aircraft and the duty officer, an Army lieutenant made the mistake of assuming the aircraft were the inbound B-17s coming from the mainland despite the bearing and numbers being wrong. Radar was brand new, and the lieutenant probably knew nothing about it. Even if he had raised an alarm, it wouldn't have made much difference since none of the Army or navy aircraft were fueled or armed and the pilots were scattered to the four winds with it being a weekend with the services operating at peacetime five or six-day weeks. MAYBE some ordnance officers could have been found in time to unlock the ready ammo bunkers to the AA and aircraft guns could have been armed, but even that was unlikely. The ready ammo bunkers for the AA guns were usually "unlocked" with sledgehammers during the attack and only a handful of fighters were ammoed up and flown. (I believe two P-40s and two P-36s)