Traditional Values Defined

[LuvRPgrl]

But that is the answer to the question you keep screaming about.

Nope, your contention is that there was no basis for religion from the very begining. Guess what, the 14th amendment didnt exist then.

 

[Nightwish]

What became obvious to me over years of making my own mistakes, is that the more you live outside of these values, the more damage you do to yourself and to others. So much regret, heartache and damage to your health and well-being results when you discard these values and live for immediate gratification. Many people resent hearing this, because they perceive it as an indictment of their lifestyle. So, they learn the hard way.

I haven't read this entire thread (too many posts, and I'm too impatient to read every one), so forgive me if I'm repeating anyone else's point or question. As to the point you raised in the quoted section above, do you suppose this regret and damage is because of something inherent in those values that confers happiness, health and contentment, or might it be that much of the damage and strife is the result of social pressures that arise from living an alternate lifestyle in a society that embraces these traditional values? In other words, if someone who suffered all this regret and damage from living outside our core traditional values engaged in their particular lifestyle in a society where that lifestyle was the norm, would they suffer the same regrets, harm or damage?

 

[Emmett]

Killing is killing! The executioner is a killer!

Argument: How do you then deter people from commiting murder?

Well, it goes like this:
0400 - Get up or get your ass beat until you do get up out of the rack (not bed)
0405 - Eat your piece of toast, drink your water!
0408 - Depart the dorm area of the prison en route to your work area busting rocks into sand with a 25 pound sledgehammer.
1145 - Take a 15 minute break to wipe the slim and mucus off your hands. Eat your piece of sun dried taost, drink your water.
1200 - Begin busting rocks again
( In the event you should at any time refuse to bust the rocks you are beaten until you resume)
1700 - Take a 30 minute brake for dinner. Eat your bologna sandwich, drink your 4 oz serving of Gatorade.
1730 - Begin busting rocks again.
2000 - Stop! Go back to the dorm area for hose down!
2020 - Get hosed down to clean the stinch off your body
2030 - Go to bed!!!!NOW!!!!!! No talking ever, that's ever again. NO VISITORS! NO PRIVLEDGES! Only a hopeless history of repeating this effort every day until you die on your own.

This is how you deter murder.

 

[Abbey Normal]

I haven't read this entire thread (too many posts, and I'm too impatient to read every one), so forgive me if I'm repeating anyone else's point or question. As to the point you raised in the quoted section above, do you suppose this regret and damage is because of something inherent in those values that confers happiness, health and contentment, or might it be that much of the damage and strife is the result of social pressures that arise from living an alternate lifestyle in a society that embraces these traditional values? In other words, if someone who suffered all this regret and damage from living outside our core traditional values engaged in their particular lifestyle in a society where that lifestyle was the norm, would they suffer the same regrets, harm or damage?

Yes.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

I haven't read this entire thread (too many posts, and I'm too impatient to read every one), so forgive me if I'm repeating anyone else's point or question. As to the point you raised in the quoted section above, do you suppose this regret and damage is because of something inherent in those values that confers happiness, health and contentment, or might it be that much of the damage and strife is the result of social pressures that arise from living an alternate lifestyle in a society that embraces these traditional values? In other words, if someone who suffered all this regret and damage from living outside our core traditional values engaged in their particular lifestyle in a society where that lifestyle was the norm, would they suffer the same regrets, harm or damage?

The damage is from a meaningless, futureless, childless, hedonistic existence.

 

[Bullypulpit]

I'm pretty sure that "how" was supposed to read "who" and Manu was actually saying that one doesn't need to be religious to be moral and that being religious doesn't automatically make someone moral.

I understood that mis-spelling. His following thoughts negate that sentiment.

 

[Bullypulpit]

The founding fathers had a revolution to break the bound with
a. King George
b. King George
c. King George
d. All of the above.

The writings of virtually all of these men described the govt as being based in christianity, and dependent on ALMIGHTY GOD for it to exist. Those are STONE COLD FACTS. More than three of the ten commandments are laws.

No dear, they are merely your opinion. The facts state otherwise.

 

[007]

The bottom line to all this discussion is that values steeped in religon are a good guideline for anyone to live by, even if you're an athiest.

If you believe values to live by are worthless, or personally imposing beyond the norm, then you're probably also an inmate somewhere in some prison, and live for the day anarchy reins.

 

[manu1959]

attention all atheists,

what values do you live by?

what is your guiding principal?

with respect to:

friends? family? stangers? enemies? etc....

what do you look to to help you decide right form wrong?

what are you atheist "10 commandments" if you will?

 

[MissileMan]

attention all atheists,

what values do you live by?

what is your guiding principal?

with respect to:

friends? family? stangers? enemies? etc....

what do you look to to help you decide right form wrong?

what are you atheist "10 commandments" if you will?

I live within U.S. law and follow the "golden rule".

 

[manu1959]

No dear, they are merely your opinion. The facts state otherwise.

Please list which facts directly contridict each of his proclaimed facts?

Did the founding fathers not have a revolution to break the bond with
King George?

Did the founding fathers not write papers about govt as being based in christianity?

dID THE NOT PROCLAIM dependence on ALMIGHTY GOD for the govt existence and creation?

Are at least three of the ten commandments not us laws?

Does not the declaration of indipendence written by our founding fathers not reference man's rights given to him by god?

damn i must have missed the US history class you took.

 

[007]

I live within U.S. law and follow the "golden rule".

He didn't ask you about laws. He asked you about "values". Can you answer him or not?

 

[007]

damn i must have missed the US history class you took.

You're assuming he had one...

 

[MissileMan]

He didn't ask you about laws. He asked you about "values". Can you answer him or not?

My answer is more than adequate.

 

[Nightwish]

I'm not the one whom you were addressing, but I'll add my opinion to your questions, if you don't mind.

Did the founding fathers not have a revolution to break the bond with King George?

Yes.

Did the founding fathers not write papers about govt as being based in christianity?

I'm not sure. I know that they wrote numerous references to God, and to a belief and trust in God, and that many of them wrote from a Deisitic perspective. However, the Deism they espoused was considered heretical by most of the Christian world. As a matter of fact, in the Treaty of Tripoli, John Adams had this to say: "The United States is not a Christian nation any more than it is a Jewish or a Mohammedan nation." Now, what that means has long been a hot topic.

dID THE NOT PROCLAIM dependence on ALMIGHTY GOD for the govt existence and creation?

God, yes. Christian doctrine, no. Belief in God does not begin and end with Christians.

Are at least three of the ten commandments not us laws?

They are laws because enough of society believed they should be. Those Commandments that are also laws are pretty universal common sense. They existed almost universally, across numerous cultures, before the 10 Commandments were ever scribed. Our laws are meant to reflect the values and ideals and beliefs of our society. What underlying reasons given segments of our society have for sharing common values is irrelevant. It doesn't matter if a Christian thinks murder is wrong because of the 10 CC's, or that an atheist believes it is wrong because it threatens the stability of society. It matters only that both are voters, both are Americans, and both believe (for their own reasons) that murder should be outlawed, and that enough other members of society agree with them to create a majority or to wield enough influence to sway the legislature.

Does not the declaration of indipendence written by our founding fathers not reference man's rights given to him by god?

God, yes. The Bible, no. Christian doctrine, no.

 

[007]

My answer is more than adequate.

Only to you it is. To me you didn't answer squat. I still have no idea what "values" you have.

So I guess I'll just formulate my own opinions as to why you either can't or won't answer specifically.

 

[manu1959]

I live within U.S. law and follow the "golden rule".

define the golden rule in your own words

so you live by 9 of the 10 comandments then?

 

[manu1959]

God, yes. The Bible, no. Christian doctrine, no.

when the founding fathers refered to go or the creator which reiligion did the all practice and wich tome did they use for spititual guidance?

 

[MissileMan]

define the golden rule in your own words

so you live by 9 of the 10 comandments then?

I'm quite sure it's the same "Golden Rule" you are familiar with and I'm also pretty sure the "Golden Rule" isn't one of the 10 Commandments.

 

[Nightwish]

when the founding fathers refered to go or the creator which reiligion did the all practice and wich tome did they use for spititual guidance?

Some of them practiced Christianity, most of them practiced Deism. That's different. They used the Bible, but also conceded that it was not inerrant or the divine dictation of God. They cared a great deal for the spirituality, but very little for the doctrines based upon it. What you're forgetting is that most of the Bible was written by Jews, not Christians. Some of the FF's did refer to Jesus on occasion, but almost exclusively to his teachings about life, tolerance and interaction, but seemed to care little for most of the mythology surrounding him.