Torture, or whatever you want to call it, "justified" by majority

[bodecea]

That's the typical demand (usually posted in the form of a "ticking time bomb" and it is an unanswerable question because in real life (not hypothetical scenarios) - it isn't that clear cut at all.

It's been shown that torture isn't usually necessary to gain good information (Secret WWII camp interrogators say torture wasn t needed - CBS News nor does torture gain useful or accurate information. So if I choose to employ torture on an individual who might (or might not) have knowledge that could help save those children I *might* get useful information but - more likely, given what we've found about torture - I *might not*. In that case - valuable time and resources could be lost chasing a phantom and the children could end up dead anyway.

No I would not since there are other means at my disposal.

Stop tap-dancing: yes or no.

...if you could save the 80-90 children slaughtered by the savages, would you have acquiesced to the enhanced interrogations?

Sure we would. Let's just not pretend that it isn't torture. Let's just not pretend that we as a country are any better than them.

1. None of the methods used rise to the level of 'torture.'

2. "The Constitution is not a suicide pact"

3. For comparison....this is torture:
From “Magnifico: The Brilliant Life and Violent Times of Lorenzo De Medici,” by Miles Unger, p. 227-228.

"An incident recorded by the diarist Luca Landucci vividly illustrated the dangers awaiting those who threatened bodily harm to the leading citizens of the regime:

27th September [1481]. A certain hermit came to the house of Lorenzo de’ Medici at the Poggio a Caiano; and the servants declared that he intended to murder Lorenzo, so they took him and sent him to the Bargello, and he was put to the rack.

15th October. This hermit died at Santa Maria Novella, having been tortured in various ways. It was said that they skinned the soles of his feet, and then burnt them by holding them in the fire till the fat dripped off them; after which they set him upright and made him walk across the hall; and these things caused his death. Opinions were divided as to whether he were guilty or innocent."

You're in denial. Of course we torture. Meh. So what. Don't pretend we don't and move on.

I see you've memorized the bumper-sticker of the America-haters.

Nope....I'm just not into self-delusion like you are. We torture. So what? They probably deserve it.

 

[ClosedCaption]

This is a fun topic because liberal posters amuse the heck out of me, with there non replies to abortion, drone killings and out right assassinations , yet they are so upset about torture and they are still alive.

Liberals hate torture

But don't mind killing

Strange

I knew this was going to be fun. They're tripping over each other vying who can be the most self-righteous hypocrite.

I didnt write that shit head

 

[bodecea]

And boy is he right along with the other idiots who view waterboarding, sleep deprivation and standing for hours as torture.

Obviously real torture would turn them into crying idiots.

You left out standing for hours on broken bones...minor details. Some of the guys died. Oops. Some weren't guilty of anything. Too bad.

Every one of the 10 authorized enhanced techniques have been freely accepted by ordinary Americans in their daily life.....as you suggest.

Please explain how being forced to stand on broken bones in stress positions is "freely accepted by ordinary Americans in their daily life".

Please explain how someone with their head removed will ever be the same again??

Please explain how that comment has to do with torturing someone who may or may not have done anything, by making them stand on broken bones?

In case you didn't realize it - dead is dead. With or without a head.

May or may not have done something??

WOW guess being on a battlefield trying to kill US troops is a nothing in your eyes??

Oh and there are no "Innocent" Muslims. The "innocent" Muslims do nothing to rein in the jihadist among them so one has to assume they agree with and condone what the jihadists do in Allah's name.

Oh and they were the "innocent" Muslims cheering on 9-11.

There are No "innocent" Muslims and I could care if they stand on broken bones, get waterboarded or are kept from sleeping.

They get a better deal than the 3,000 dead did on 9-11.

Meh. Let's just admit that torture is in our playbook and move on.

"If you thought the Senate’s ‘torture report’ was shocking, imagine the prospect of the Obama administration releasing hundreds, maybe thousands of photographs depicting detainee abuse.

"The Obama administration is withholding hundreds, perhaps even thousands of photographs showing the U.S. government’s brutal treatment of detainees, meaning that revelations about detainee abuse could well continue, possibly compounding the outrage generated by the Senate 'torture report' now in the public eye."
Stay tuned.
The Detainee Abuse Photos Obama Didn t Want You To See - The Daily Beast

Anyone who thinks we don't torture is fooling themselves. We do....let's just admit that we do....and that we will continue to find reasons to justify doing it and move on.

If it makes you feel better, then OK

I feel better that some barbarian gets roughed up a bit to protect my children from being cut in half cuz they won't give into these creeps.

There, now we both feel better.

Actually, it's not a question of feeling better....it's about admitting reality and not really caring what happens to those being tortured.

Call it whatever the hell you want to call it.

I CALL IT DOING WHATEVER IT TAKES TO PROTECT OUR FUTURE.

Most people understand that "a word" never saved a single life in war.

I admire my fellow Americans who take the steps required to keep my children safe, and I abhor those that question their deeds.

Ok....so we torture in order to do whatever it takes to "protect our future." It is what it is. Let's not pretend anymore.

 

[Ame®icano]

I don't consider waterboarding, being made to stand for hours, sleep deprivation or any of that other "torture" to be torture.

Pulling out fingernails, hooking someone balls up to a battery, beating them with barbed wire and enduring what McCain endured in Vietnam now thats torture.

I think most of you who are against the use of EIT's are a bunch of idiots.

I suppose you think we should just ask nicely and hope the prisoners decide to tell us what we want to know so we can save American lives?

Sure glad I don't have to depend on you idiots to protect me cause baby would I be out of luck as would all of America.

I would add that reading liberal posts here is a torture.

In Sweden and Australia prison cells are being painted in pink. Now, that's a torture.

 

[BullKurtz]

The democrat STAFFERS who prepared that pile of crap don't grasp the meaning of what the program is about. To say enhanced interrogation got no results just shows their stupidity. When a guy is being waterboarded, he's not giving up anything....he's trying to get a breath of air. He gives up the information rather than face the next session....good cop, real bad cop stuff. Feinstein has a personal beef with the CIA...this was nothing but political revenge for her and the party that just got smoked in the midterms. Only people who will believe what's in it enjoy seeing the USA take a kick in the chimes....shameful what the left has turned into.

 

[Pop23]

You left out standing for hours on broken bones...minor details. Some of the guys died. Oops. Some weren't guilty of anything. Too bad.

Please explain how being forced to stand on broken bones in stress positions is "freely accepted by ordinary Americans in their daily life".

Please explain how someone with their head removed will ever be the same again??

Please explain how that comment has to do with torturing someone who may or may not have done anything, by making them stand on broken bones?

In case you didn't realize it - dead is dead. With or without a head.

May or may not have done something??

WOW guess being on a battlefield trying to kill US troops is a nothing in your eyes??

Oh and there are no "Innocent" Muslims. The "innocent" Muslims do nothing to rein in the jihadist among them so one has to assume they agree with and condone what the jihadists do in Allah's name.

Oh and they were the "innocent" Muslims cheering on 9-11.

There are No "innocent" Muslims and I could care if they stand on broken bones, get waterboarded or are kept from sleeping.

They get a better deal than the 3,000 dead did on 9-11.

"If you thought the Senate’s ‘torture report’ was shocking, imagine the prospect of the Obama administration releasing hundreds, maybe thousands of photographs depicting detainee abuse.

"The Obama administration is withholding hundreds, perhaps even thousands of photographs showing the U.S. government’s brutal treatment of detainees, meaning that revelations about detainee abuse could well continue, possibly compounding the outrage generated by the Senate 'torture report' now in the public eye."
Stay tuned.
The Detainee Abuse Photos Obama Didn t Want You To See - The Daily Beast

Anyone who thinks we don't torture is fooling themselves. We do....let's just admit that we do....and that we will continue to find reasons to justify doing it and move on.

If it makes you feel better, then OK

I feel better that some barbarian gets roughed up a bit to protect my children from being cut in half cuz they won't give into these creeps.

There, now we both feel better.

Actually, it's not a question of feeling better....it's about admitting reality and not really caring what happens to those being tortured.

Call it whatever the hell you want to call it.

I CALL IT DOING WHATEVER IT TAKES TO PROTECT OUR FUTURE.

Most people understand that "a word" never saved a single life in war.

I admire my fellow Americans who take the steps required to keep my children safe, and I abhor those that question their deeds.

How far are you willing to go in "DOING WHATEVER IT TAKES TO PROTECT OUR FUTURE"?

Ask the parents of the children of the man seen jumping from the World Trade Center. Ask the parents of the 4 young children who WERE CUT IN HALF THEN DECAPITATED, because they refused to betray their faith, ask the parents of the soldiers and civilians beheaded.

I can go on and on.

Please understand, I understand why these treaties were done. So UNIFORMED soldiers were treated in a certain way. These are not THEM. The only pity they deserve is knowing they will burn in hell for eternity. They will wish that the eternity of pain could be traded for a few hours of having water splashed on their worthless faces.

Have I expressed my feelings clear enough ?

 

[rightwinger]

That's the typical demand (usually posted in the form of a "ticking time bomb" and it is an unanswerable question because in real life (not hypothetical scenarios) - it isn't that clear cut at all.

It's been shown that torture isn't usually necessary to gain good information (Secret WWII camp interrogators say torture wasn t needed - CBS News nor does torture gain useful or accurate information. So if I choose to employ torture on an individual who might (or might not) have knowledge that could help save those children I *might* get useful information but - more likely, given what we've found about torture - I *might not*. In that case - valuable time and resources could be lost chasing a phantom and the children could end up dead anyway.

No I would not since there are other means at my disposal.

Stop tap-dancing: yes or no.

...if you could save the 80-90 children slaughtered by the savages, would you have acquiesced to the enhanced interrogations?

Sure we would. Let's just not pretend that it isn't torture. Let's just not pretend that we as a country are any better than them.

1. None of the methods used rise to the level of 'torture.'

2. "The Constitution is not a suicide pact"

3. For comparison....this is torture:
From “Magnifico: The Brilliant Life and Violent Times of Lorenzo De Medici,” by Miles Unger, p. 227-228.

"An incident recorded by the diarist Luca Landucci vividly illustrated the dangers awaiting those who threatened bodily harm to the leading citizens of the regime:

27th September [1481]. A certain hermit came to the house of Lorenzo de’ Medici at the Poggio a Caiano; and the servants declared that he intended to murder Lorenzo, so they took him and sent him to the Bargello, and he was put to the rack.

15th October. This hermit died at Santa Maria Novella, having been tortured in various ways. It was said that they skinned the soles of his feet, and then burnt them by holding them in the fire till the fat dripped off them; after which they set him upright and made him walk across the hall; and these things caused his death. Opinions were divided as to whether he were guilty or innocent."

You're in denial. Of course we torture. Meh. So what. Don't pretend we don't and move on.

I see you've memorized the bumper-sticker of the America-haters.

People who embrace torture hate America

 

[High_Gravity]

Car battery and jumper cables? someones car broke down?

Ya' wanna make somphin' of it, big boy?????

 

[Coyote]

Please explain how someone with their head removed will ever be the same again??

Please explain how that comment has to do with torturing someone who may or may not have done anything, by making them stand on broken bones?

In case you didn't realize it - dead is dead. With or without a head.

May or may not have done something??

WOW guess being on a battlefield trying to kill US troops is a nothing in your eyes??

Oh and there are no "Innocent" Muslims. The "innocent" Muslims do nothing to rein in the jihadist among them so one has to assume they agree with and condone what the jihadists do in Allah's name.

Oh and they were the "innocent" Muslims cheering on 9-11.

There are No "innocent" Muslims and I could care if they stand on broken bones, get waterboarded or are kept from sleeping.

They get a better deal than the 3,000 dead did on 9-11.

Anyone who thinks we don't torture is fooling themselves. We do....let's just admit that we do....and that we will continue to find reasons to justify doing it and move on.

If it makes you feel better, then OK

I feel better that some barbarian gets roughed up a bit to protect my children from being cut in half cuz they won't give into these creeps.

There, now we both feel better.

Actually, it's not a question of feeling better....it's about admitting reality and not really caring what happens to those being tortured.

Call it whatever the hell you want to call it.

I CALL IT DOING WHATEVER IT TAKES TO PROTECT OUR FUTURE.

Most people understand that "a word" never saved a single life in war.

I admire my fellow Americans who take the steps required to keep my children safe, and I abhor those that question their deeds.

How far are you willing to go in "DOING WHATEVER IT TAKES TO PROTECT OUR FUTURE"?

Don't be fooled - this isn't about protecting "our future." THAT would include honoring and sacrificing to preserve the ideals and principles that make America a beacon to the world.

This is all about protecting the hide of bedwetters who shit on the sacrifices that others have made to protect American values in order to create an illusion of security for themselves and their own quivering asses.

It's a fine line when one of the things we value is a free and open society - how far are people really willing to go, and sacrifice those freedoms, in order to have "security"?

Most of the time - like the internment of the Japanese, people are perfectly willing to sacrifice the rights and freedoms of "others" - as long as it's not their own. Same with torture - it doesn't matter that information can be gained another way, or that the people being tortured may or may not have done anything wrong - they aren't "us" so we're willing to sacrifice them thinking it will make us safer because we're afraid.

There's been a huge upsurge in school shootings and random gun violence - should the rights of gun owners be sacrificed for public safety?

 

[bodecea]

Stop tap-dancing: yes or no.

...if you could save the 80-90 children slaughtered by the savages, would you have acquiesced to the enhanced interrogations?

Sure we would. Let's just not pretend that it isn't torture. Let's just not pretend that we as a country are any better than them.

1. None of the methods used rise to the level of 'torture.'

2. "The Constitution is not a suicide pact"

3. For comparison....this is torture:
From “Magnifico: The Brilliant Life and Violent Times of Lorenzo De Medici,” by Miles Unger, p. 227-228.

"An incident recorded by the diarist Luca Landucci vividly illustrated the dangers awaiting those who threatened bodily harm to the leading citizens of the regime:

27th September [1481]. A certain hermit came to the house of Lorenzo de’ Medici at the Poggio a Caiano; and the servants declared that he intended to murder Lorenzo, so they took him and sent him to the Bargello, and he was put to the rack.

15th October. This hermit died at Santa Maria Novella, having been tortured in various ways. It was said that they skinned the soles of his feet, and then burnt them by holding them in the fire till the fat dripped off them; after which they set him upright and made him walk across the hall; and these things caused his death. Opinions were divided as to whether he were guilty or innocent."

You're in denial. Of course we torture. Meh. So what. Don't pretend we don't and move on.

I see you've memorized the bumper-sticker of the America-haters.

People who embrace torture hate America

No, not anymore. It's part of us now.

 

[nodoginnafight]

This is a fun topic because liberal posters amuse the heck out of me, with there non replies to abortion, drone killings and out right assassinations , yet they are so upset about torture and they are still alive.

Liberals hate torture

But don't mind killing

Strange

I knew this was going to be fun. They're tripping over each other vying who can be the most self-righteous hypocrite.

I didnt write that shit head

Falsifying quotes is a MAJOR thing. I suggest reporting it.

 

[Pop23]

Stop tap-dancing: yes or no.

...if you could save the 80-90 children slaughtered by the savages, would you have acquiesced to the enhanced interrogations?

Sure we would. Let's just not pretend that it isn't torture. Let's just not pretend that we as a country are any better than them.

1. None of the methods used rise to the level of 'torture.'

2. "The Constitution is not a suicide pact"

3. For comparison....this is torture:
From “Magnifico: The Brilliant Life and Violent Times of Lorenzo De Medici,” by Miles Unger, p. 227-228.

"An incident recorded by the diarist Luca Landucci vividly illustrated the dangers awaiting those who threatened bodily harm to the leading citizens of the regime:

27th September [1481]. A certain hermit came to the house of Lorenzo de’ Medici at the Poggio a Caiano; and the servants declared that he intended to murder Lorenzo, so they took him and sent him to the Bargello, and he was put to the rack.

15th October. This hermit died at Santa Maria Novella, having been tortured in various ways. It was said that they skinned the soles of his feet, and then burnt them by holding them in the fire till the fat dripped off them; after which they set him upright and made him walk across the hall; and these things caused his death. Opinions were divided as to whether he were guilty or innocent."

You're in denial. Of course we torture. Meh. So what. Don't pretend we don't and move on.

I see you've memorized the bumper-sticker of the America-haters.

People who embrace torture hate America

And people willing to falsify a radon test is what?

Saintly ?

Give me a freaking break with you moral outrage.

 

[BullKurtz]

People who embrace torture hate America

Don't let the door hit ya in the ass on your way to Cuba, Benedict.

 

[Coyote]

I guess if liberals kill them outright nothing to talk about?

Sure. Start a topic on it.

However...I'm not seeing this as a liberal/conservative issue.

If you actually read the article you would have found that conservatives and moderates, even Democrats, found the interrogations justified while liberals did not.

My comment was directed not at what was found in the article (which I read) but rather at the fact that I don't think torture itself is or should be a left/right issue. Maybe it is, but I would think it should bother people on both sides of the ideological divide. Fear certainly allows us to justify a lot of things that later we deeply regret and were found to be unnecessary and served no useful purpose - for example the internment of the Japanese-Americans.

While many regret the internment of Japanese-Americans, most do not seem to be sorry for the interrogation techniques used on people like KSM. This is the guy's testimony, "I decapitated with my blessed right hand the head of the American Jew,"

Sorry, your equivalency is BS.

Many regret it NOW - years after the fact. How long did it take to even grant the reparations? "Regret" is easy, long after the deed when rationality takes over isn't it? And there are still people who justify it even now.

KSM was only one person. Many of those tortured were of dubious value who may or may not have done anything worth torturing. And even then - no useful informatioin was gained. So what's the real purpose of the torture? Punative?

 

[nodoginnafight]

Let's preserve America for people who love America and appreciate the ideals and values that make us great.

 

[Coyote]

I don't consider waterboarding, being made to stand for hours, sleep deprivation or any of that other "torture" to be torture.

Pulling out fingernails, hooking someone balls up to a battery, beating them with barbed wire and enduring what McCain endured in Vietnam now thats torture.

I think most of you who are against the use of EIT's are a bunch of idiots.

I suppose you think we should just ask nicely and hope the prisoners decide to tell us what we want to know so we can save American lives?

Sure glad I don't have to depend on you idiots to protect me cause baby would I be out of luck as would all of America.

I would add that reading liberal posts here is a torture.

In Sweden and Australia prison cells are being painted in pink. Now, that's a torture.

Then don't. No one is forcing you to.

 

[Pop23]

Please explain how that comment has to do with torturing someone who may or may not have done anything, by making them stand on broken bones?

In case you didn't realize it - dead is dead. With or without a head.

May or may not have done something??

WOW guess being on a battlefield trying to kill US troops is a nothing in your eyes??

Oh and there are no "Innocent" Muslims. The "innocent" Muslims do nothing to rein in the jihadist among them so one has to assume they agree with and condone what the jihadists do in Allah's name.

Oh and they were the "innocent" Muslims cheering on 9-11.

There are No "innocent" Muslims and I could care if they stand on broken bones, get waterboarded or are kept from sleeping.

They get a better deal than the 3,000 dead did on 9-11.

If it makes you feel better, then OK

I feel better that some barbarian gets roughed up a bit to protect my children from being cut in half cuz they won't give into these creeps.

There, now we both feel better.

Actually, it's not a question of feeling better....it's about admitting reality and not really caring what happens to those being tortured.

Call it whatever the hell you want to call it.

I CALL IT DOING WHATEVER IT TAKES TO PROTECT OUR FUTURE.

Most people understand that "a word" never saved a single life in war.

I admire my fellow Americans who take the steps required to keep my children safe, and I abhor those that question their deeds.

How far are you willing to go in "DOING WHATEVER IT TAKES TO PROTECT OUR FUTURE"?

Don't be fooled - this isn't about protecting "our future." THAT would include honoring and sacrificing to preserve the ideals and principles that make America a beacon to the world.

This is all about protecting the hide of bedwetters who shit on the sacrifices that others have made to protect American values in order to create an illusion of security for themselves and their own quivering asses.

It's a fine line when one of the things we value is a free and open society - how far are people really willing to go, and sacrifice those freedoms, in order to have "security"?

Most of the time - like the internment of the Japanese, people are perfectly willing to sacrifice the rights and freedoms of "others" - as long as it's not their own. Same with torture - it doesn't matter that information can be gained another way, or that the people being tortured may or may not have done anything wrong - they aren't "us" so we're willing to sacrifice them thinking it will make us safer because we're afraid.

There's been a huge upsurge in school shootings and random gun violence - should the rights of gun owners be sacrificed for public safety?

You don't understand.

Stopping these barbarians IS PROTECTING OUR FREEDOMS.

Here's a test. Go to Iraq. Start shouting at the top of your lungs a love for Jesus. Report back.

 

[Coyote]

May or may not have done something??

WOW guess being on a battlefield trying to kill US troops is a nothing in your eyes??

Oh and there are no "Innocent" Muslims. The "innocent" Muslims do nothing to rein in the jihadist among them so one has to assume they agree with and condone what the jihadists do in Allah's name.

Oh and they were the "innocent" Muslims cheering on 9-11.

There are No "innocent" Muslims and I could care if they stand on broken bones, get waterboarded or are kept from sleeping.

They get a better deal than the 3,000 dead did on 9-11.

Actually, it's not a question of feeling better....it's about admitting reality and not really caring what happens to those being tortured.

Call it whatever the hell you want to call it.

I CALL IT DOING WHATEVER IT TAKES TO PROTECT OUR FUTURE.

Most people understand that "a word" never saved a single life in war.

I admire my fellow Americans who take the steps required to keep my children safe, and I abhor those that question their deeds.

How far are you willing to go in "DOING WHATEVER IT TAKES TO PROTECT OUR FUTURE"?

Don't be fooled - this isn't about protecting "our future." THAT would include honoring and sacrificing to preserve the ideals and principles that make America a beacon to the world.

This is all about protecting the hide of bedwetters who shit on the sacrifices that others have made to protect American values in order to create an illusion of security for themselves and their own quivering asses.

It's a fine line when one of the things we value is a free and open society - how far are people really willing to go, and sacrifice those freedoms, in order to have "security"?

Most of the time - like the internment of the Japanese, people are perfectly willing to sacrifice the rights and freedoms of "others" - as long as it's not their own. Same with torture - it doesn't matter that information can be gained another way, or that the people being tortured may or may not have done anything wrong - they aren't "us" so we're willing to sacrifice them thinking it will make us safer because we're afraid.

There's been a huge upsurge in school shootings and random gun violence - should the rights of gun owners be sacrificed for public safety?

You don't understand.

Stopping these barbarians IS PROTECTING OUR FREEDOMS.

Here's a test. Go to Iraq. Start shouting at the top of your lungs a love for Jesus. Report back.

There is a huge difference between us and Iraq.

Should we act like Iraq in order to protect our freedoms?

How far are you willing to go?

 

[nodoginnafight]

May or may not have done something??

WOW guess being on a battlefield trying to kill US troops is a nothing in your eyes??

Oh and there are no "Innocent" Muslims. The "innocent" Muslims do nothing to rein in the jihadist among them so one has to assume they agree with and condone what the jihadists do in Allah's name.

Oh and they were the "innocent" Muslims cheering on 9-11.

There are No "innocent" Muslims and I could care if they stand on broken bones, get waterboarded or are kept from sleeping.

They get a better deal than the 3,000 dead did on 9-11.

Actually, it's not a question of feeling better....it's about admitting reality and not really caring what happens to those being tortured.

Call it whatever the hell you want to call it.

I CALL IT DOING WHATEVER IT TAKES TO PROTECT OUR FUTURE.

Most people understand that "a word" never saved a single life in war.

I admire my fellow Americans who take the steps required to keep my children safe, and I abhor those that question their deeds.

How far are you willing to go in "DOING WHATEVER IT TAKES TO PROTECT OUR FUTURE"?

Don't be fooled - this isn't about protecting "our future." THAT would include honoring and sacrificing to preserve the ideals and principles that make America a beacon to the world.

This is all about protecting the hide of bedwetters who shit on the sacrifices that others have made to protect American values in order to create an illusion of security for themselves and their own quivering asses.

It's a fine line when one of the things we value is a free and open society - how far are people really willing to go, and sacrifice those freedoms, in order to have "security"?

Most of the time - like the internment of the Japanese, people are perfectly willing to sacrifice the rights and freedoms of "others" - as long as it's not their own. Same with torture - it doesn't matter that information can be gained another way, or that the people being tortured may or may not have done anything wrong - they aren't "us" so we're willing to sacrifice them thinking it will make us safer because we're afraid.

There's been a huge upsurge in school shootings and random gun violence - should the rights of gun owners be sacrificed for public safety?

You don't understand.

Stopping these barbarians IS PROTECTING OUR FREEDOMS.

Here's a test. Go to Iraq. Start shouting at the top of your lungs a love for Jesus. Report back.

What does your Iraq stuff have to do with America? Are you saying you want America to be MORE like that? Or that demonstrates the American values that so many AMERICANS have died to preserve?

Look - you're scared. I get it. But man up and take a stand for AMERICA and what WE value - not Iraq.

 

[Pop23]

Call it whatever the hell you want to call it.

I CALL IT DOING WHATEVER IT TAKES TO PROTECT OUR FUTURE.

Most people understand that "a word" never saved a single life in war.

I admire my fellow Americans who take the steps required to keep my children safe, and I abhor those that question their deeds.

How far are you willing to go in "DOING WHATEVER IT TAKES TO PROTECT OUR FUTURE"?

Don't be fooled - this isn't about protecting "our future." THAT would include honoring and sacrificing to preserve the ideals and principles that make America a beacon to the world.

This is all about protecting the hide of bedwetters who shit on the sacrifices that others have made to protect American values in order to create an illusion of security for themselves and their own quivering asses.

It's a fine line when one of the things we value is a free and open society - how far are people really willing to go, and sacrifice those freedoms, in order to have "security"?

Most of the time - like the internment of the Japanese, people are perfectly willing to sacrifice the rights and freedoms of "others" - as long as it's not their own. Same with torture - it doesn't matter that information can be gained another way, or that the people being tortured may or may not have done anything wrong - they aren't "us" so we're willing to sacrifice them thinking it will make us safer because we're afraid.

There's been a huge upsurge in school shootings and random gun violence - should the rights of gun owners be sacrificed for public safety?

You don't understand.

Stopping these barbarians IS PROTECTING OUR FREEDOMS.

Here's a test. Go to Iraq. Start shouting at the top of your lungs a love for Jesus. Report back.

There is a huge difference between us and Iraq.

Should we act like Iraq in order to protect our freedoms?

How far are you willing to go?

It's been answered

If it takes nuking the barbarians......

Proceed