Tort Reform Failure

[Bfgrn]

You realize that Obama's proposal does not have a public option and has the support of the insurance companies, right?
Not to make your head explode or anything.

The reason the bill doesn't have a public option or the ability to buy into Medicare is not because of the president or Liberal Democrats. It is blue dog Democrats that represent red states, the Senator from Aetna and Republicans that ate owned by corporations and have absolutely no intention to represent the people of this country. They are party first obstructionists intent on destroying anything Obama and the Democrats try to accomplish. It is their plan to gain power and people like you are blind to it...instead you are cheerleaders...

 

[The Rabbi]

You realize that Obama's proposal does not have a public option and has the support of the insurance companies, right?
Not to make your head explode or anything.

The reason the bill doesn't have a public option or the ability to buy into Medicare is not because of the president or Liberal Democrats. It is blue dog Democrats that represent red states, the Senator from Aetna and Republicans that ate owned by corporations and have absolutely no intention to represent the people of this country. They are party first obstructionists intent on destroying anything Obama and the Democrats try to accomplish. It is their plan to gain power and people like you are blind to it...instead you are cheerleaders...

You have not come to terms with the contradictory nature of your post.
You state that you haven't heard Obama say anything you object to. And you say you are for public option. Yet Obama took public option off the table. The proposals in Congress, controlled by Democrats who are mostly liberal btw, are there with the support of the insurance companies.
I realize all of this goes against your basic beliefs but it is the truth. You have been living a lie. Sorry to break it to you, big fella.

 

[9 Volt]

You realize that Obama's proposal does not have a public option and has the support of the insurance companies, right?
Not to make your head explode or anything.

The reason the bill doesn't have a public option or the ability to buy into Medicare is not because of the president or Liberal Democrats. It is blue dog Democrats that represent red states, the Senator from Aetna and Republicans that ate owned by corporations and have absolutely no intention to represent the people of this country. They are party first obstructionists intent on destroying anything Obama and the Democrats try to accomplish. It is their plan to gain power and people like you are blind to it...instead you are cheerleaders...

I disgaree here. The Democrats are just as guilty of furthering the corporatist agenda as the Republicans have been. To believe that one of these two parties is any different from the other is simply naive.

 

[Bfgrn]

You realize that Obama's proposal does not have a public option and has the support of the insurance companies, right?
Not to make your head explode or anything.

The reason the bill doesn't have a public option or the ability to buy into Medicare is not because of the president or Liberal Democrats. It is blue dog Democrats that represent red states, the Senator from Aetna and Republicans that ate owned by corporations and have absolutely no intention to represent the people of this country. They are party first obstructionists intent on destroying anything Obama and the Democrats try to accomplish. It is their plan to gain power and people like you are blind to it...instead you are cheerleaders...

You have not come to terms with the contradictory nature of your post.
You state that you haven't heard Obama say anything you object to. And you say you are for public option. Yet Obama took public option off the table. The proposals in Congress, controlled by Democrats who are mostly liberal btw, are there with the support of the insurance companies.
I realize all of this goes against your basic beliefs but it is the truth. You have been living a lie. Sorry to break it to you, big fella.

Hey, I might be living in a lie, but you are living with and supporting wolves.

IMO, about half the Democrats are owned by corporations, but ALL the Republicans are owned lock stock and barrel. Show me one Republican currently in Washington that isn't behind privatization and turning our country over to corporation? Show me one Republican that wants to protect our environment?

I am very unhappy Obama caved in to the right on the public option, but it was in his original plan...

 

[The Rabbi]

The reason the bill doesn't have a public option or the ability to buy into Medicare is not because of the president or Liberal Democrats. It is blue dog Democrats that represent red states, the Senator from Aetna and Republicans that ate owned by corporations and have absolutely no intention to represent the people of this country. They are party first obstructionists intent on destroying anything Obama and the Democrats try to accomplish. It is their plan to gain power and people like you are blind to it...instead you are cheerleaders...

You have not come to terms with the contradictory nature of your post.
You state that you haven't heard Obama say anything you object to. And you say you are for public option. Yet Obama took public option off the table. The proposals in Congress, controlled by Democrats who are mostly liberal btw, are there with the support of the insurance companies.
I realize all of this goes against your basic beliefs but it is the truth. You have been living a lie. Sorry to break it to you, big fella.

Hey, I might be living in a lie, but you are living with and supporting wolves.

IMO, about half the Democrats are owned by corporations, but ALL the Republicans are owned lock stock and barrel. Show me one Republican currently in Washington that isn't behind privatization and turning our country over to corporation? Show me one Republican that wants to protect our environment?

I am very unhappy Obama caved in to the right on the public option, but it was in his original plan...

Olympia Snowe
Lamar Alexander.
That was too easy.
You need to re-evaluate your entire political views before posting here again. Possibly analysis would help.

 

[Bfgrn]

You have not come to terms with the contradictory nature of your post.
You state that you haven't heard Obama say anything you object to. And you say you are for public option. Yet Obama took public option off the table. The proposals in Congress, controlled by Democrats who are mostly liberal btw, are there with the support of the insurance companies.
I realize all of this goes against your basic beliefs but it is the truth. You have been living a lie. Sorry to break it to you, big fella.

Hey, I might be living in a lie, but you are living with and supporting wolves.

IMO, about half the Democrats are owned by corporations, but ALL the Republicans are owned lock stock and barrel. Show me one Republican currently in Washington that isn't behind privatization and turning our country over to corporation? Show me one Republican that wants to protect our environment?

I am very unhappy Obama caved in to the right on the public option, but it was in his original plan...

Olympia Snowe
Lamar Alexander.
That was too easy.
You need to re-evaluate your entire political views before posting here again. Possibly analysis would help.

My entire political view huh? Talk about a radical. Hey, maybe you just need to do a little more research...you are one for two...but even two is very revealing...

Senator Lamar Alexander (R-TN)
2nd-term Republican from Tennessee.
Vote Ratings
110th, 2nd session 18%
110th Congress (2007-2008) 27%
110th, 2nd Session (2008) 18%
110th, 1st Session (2007) 33%
109th Congress (2005-2006) 19%
108th Congress (2003-2004) 4%

Senator Olympia J. Snowe (R-ME)
3rd-term Republican from Maine.
Vote Ratings
110th, 2nd session 91%
110th Congress (2007-2008) 85%
110th, 2nd Session (2008) 91%
110th, 1st Session (2007) 80%
109th Congress (2005-2006) 74%
108th Congress (2003-2004) 68%
107th Congress (2001-2002) 72%
106th Congress (1999-2000) 56%

"We didn't inherit this land from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children."
Lakota Sioux Proverb

 

[The Rabbi]

You asked for one Republican. I gave one, arguably two.
Now it is your turn to recant your entire political philosophy in light of the errors you have been shown.
To wit:
Obama is not a transformational figure. He is a Chicago machine politician doing business as usual.
Gov't intervention is the problem, not the solution.
Left to their own devices, most people do the right thing most of the time.
Democrats are interested in power for its own sake and will abuse it every chance they get. Most Republicans are like that too, but that they can be shamed.

 

[geauxtohell]

In MS before tort reform there were I think 2 practicing OB-GYNs in the state.

I am just going to go ahead and call bull-*******-shit on that one.

You realize Mississippi has a medical school and that OB/GYN rotations are required for all medical students and that to have OB/GYN rotations you need OB/GYNs and residents, right?

You are right, we should totally defer to your expertise on this matter.

You're right. I overstated it. But there were still counties without an OB-GYN and the AMA declared MS a medical catastrophe.
Mississippi's Tort Reform Triumph - WSJ.com

Mississippi is medically underserved like most other rural parts of the country. That has nothing to do with tort reform, if anything, those areas are more forgiving in that right (on the flip side, if you noted (correctly) that Miami has a shortage of OB/GYNs b/c malpractice premiums are so high your point would have made sense).

The problem with rural areas is that young Drs. who are 150-250K in the hole don't really want to go there. Most would rather stay in urban areas. That's why there are now incentives (both to get students in med school and to pay off loans) to try to lure people to those areas.

 

[geauxtohell]

So, what if we just suspended licenses for slight mistakes?

Given the option between paying for insurance premiums to cover mistakes versus a system where licenses are suspended for mistakes, I'd doubt you find many Drs. that would favor your position.

Your system is completely draconian. If a physician makes a mistake he/she loses their livelihood for a certain period of time and maybe forever?

Who in the hell would want to go into a profession like that?

I suppose only people who are confident in their skills?

Who would wanna be a cop?
Who would wanna captain a supertanker?
Who would wanna design a bridge?
Who would wanna be a teacher?
Who wants to be an airline pilot?

AWWWWWWWwwwwwwww....POOOR ******* DOCTORS: any other licesed professional ***** up, and they get their liceses suspended or revolked; but phycisians are "special?"

You're saying that physicians are a little sloppy and that their work is inherently error prone, and the public had better just accept the premium on healthcare that allows this instead of holding Medical Doctors to the same standards every other professional must have.

Bullshit.

Okay fine. Just don't offer up your solution as a "fix". It would be a disaster. I'd leave medical school right now if I thought that the slightest error in judgment could cause me to lose my license.

But hey, we don't have enough Drs as it is, but I am sure your plan makes sense in some sort of alternate universe.

BTW, on average a Dr. get's sued 2-4 times in their career. Who is going to be left?

 

[The Rabbi]

I am just going to go ahead and call bull-*******-shit on that one.

You realize Mississippi has a medical school and that OB/GYN rotations are required for all medical students and that to have OB/GYN rotations you need OB/GYNs and residents, right?

You are right, we should totally defer to your expertise on this matter.

You're right. I overstated it. But there were still counties without an OB-GYN and the AMA declared MS a medical catastrophe.
Mississippi's Tort Reform Triumph - WSJ.com

Mississippi is medically underserved like most other rural parts of the country. That has nothing to do with tort reform, if anything, those areas are more forgiving in that right (on the flip side, if you noted (correctly) that Miami has a shortage of OB/GYNs b/c malpractice premiums are so high).

The problem with rural areas is that young Drs. who are 150-250K in the hole don't really want to go there. Most would rather stay in urban areas. That's why there are now incentives (both to get students in med school and to pay off loans) to try to lure people to those areas.

If that had any basis in reality it might be believable.
But counties that had doctors lost them due to high premiums. And after tort reform many doctors moved to MS.
Sorry, facts aren't your friends here.

 

[uscitizen]

How much did tort reform drop malpractice insurance premiums?

How much did it drop medical costs for consumers?

 

[geauxtohell]

You're right. I overstated it. But there were still counties without an OB-GYN and the AMA declared MS a medical catastrophe.
Mississippi's Tort Reform Triumph - WSJ.com

Mississippi is medically underserved like most other rural parts of the country. That has nothing to do with tort reform, if anything, those areas are more forgiving in that right (on the flip side, if you noted (correctly) that Miami has a shortage of OB/GYNs b/c malpractice premiums are so high).

The problem with rural areas is that young Drs. who are 150-250K in the hole don't really want to go there. Most would rather stay in urban areas. That's why there are now incentives (both to get students in med school and to pay off loans) to try to lure people to those areas.

If that had any basis in reality it might be believable.
But counties that had doctors lost them due to high premiums. And after tort reform many doctors moved to MS.
Sorry, facts aren't your friends here.

Jack-nuts:

Posting OPED as legitimate journalism does nothing to buoy your claims.

Furthermore, even your OPED never addressed if Tort Reform has caused an increase in physicians.

It mostly prattled on about the Toyota Plant.

Here, I'll give you some facts:

Every single county in Mississippi is "medically underserved" and most of them have been since 1978.

http://muafind.hrsa.gov/index.aspx

You guys have one medical school for the state, and most Doctors from outside of Mississippi aren't dying to set up shop there, regardless of tort reform.

 

[The Rabbi]

Mississippi is medically underserved like most other rural parts of the country. That has nothing to do with tort reform, if anything, those areas are more forgiving in that right (on the flip side, if you noted (correctly) that Miami has a shortage of OB/GYNs b/c malpractice premiums are so high).

The problem with rural areas is that young Drs. who are 150-250K in the hole don't really want to go there. Most would rather stay in urban areas. That's why there are now incentives (both to get students in med school and to pay off loans) to try to lure people to those areas.

If that had any basis in reality it might be believable.
But counties that had doctors lost them due to high premiums. And after tort reform many doctors moved to MS.
Sorry, facts aren't your friends here.

Jack-nuts:

Posting OPED as legitimate journalism does nothing to buoy your claims.

Furthermore, even your OPED never addressed if Tort Reform has caused an increase in physicians.

It mostly prattled on about the Toyota Plant.

OK, so your claims are bogus. Thought so. Thanks for playing.

 

[geauxtohell]

If that had any basis in reality it might be believable.
But counties that had doctors lost them due to high premiums. And after tort reform many doctors moved to MS.
Sorry, facts aren't your friends here.

Jack-nuts:

Posting OPED as legitimate journalism does nothing to buoy your claims.

Furthermore, even your OPED never addressed if Tort Reform has caused an increase in physicians.

It mostly prattled on about the Toyota Plant.

OK, so your claims are bogus. Thought so. Thanks for playing.

Just in case you missed the edit:

Here, I'll give you some facts:

Every single county in Mississippi is "medically underserved" and most of them have been since 1978.

Find Shortage Areas: MUA/P by State and County

You guys have one medical school for the state, and most Doctors from outside of Mississippi aren't dying to set up shop there, regardless of tort reform.

 

[The Rabbi]

Jack-nuts:

Posting OPED as legitimate journalism does nothing to buoy your claims.

Furthermore, even your OPED never addressed if Tort Reform has caused an increase in physicians.

It mostly prattled on about the Toyota Plant.

OK, so your claims are bogus. Thought so. Thanks for playing.

Just in case you missed the edit:

Here, I'll give you some facts:

Every single county in Mississippi is "medically underserved" and most of them have been since 1978.

Find Shortage Areas: MUA/P by State and County

You guys have one medical school for the state, and most Doctors from outside of Mississippi aren't dying to set up shop there, regardless of tort reform.

So your claims are fabricated. So I thought.

 

[geauxtohell]

OK, so your claims are bogus. Thought so. Thanks for playing.

Just in case you missed the edit:

Here, I'll give you some facts:

Every single county in Mississippi is "medically underserved" and most of them have been since 1978.

Find Shortage Areas: MUA/P by State and County

You guys have one medical school for the state, and most Doctors from outside of Mississippi aren't dying to set up shop there, regardless of tort reform.

So your claims are fabricated. So I thought.

LOL! What the ****?

Unlike you, I just provided some quantitative evidence that shows that Mississippi has had a shortage of health care providers for over thirty years (in most counties).

That's a little better than your OPED bullshit.

On that note, your OPED never addressed if Tort Reform caused all the Doctors to come back to Mississippi.

 

[The Rabbi]

So you have no evidence for your claim. Thanks for admitting it. Let's move on now.

 

[geauxtohell]

So you have no evidence for your claim. Thanks for admitting it. Let's move on now.

In other words: "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain....."

I just showed you that MS has a Dr. shortage and has long before the tort issue. I suppose that's not convenient for your OPED, so you'd rather ignore it. Whatever.

 

[The Rabbi]

So you have no evidence for your claim. Thanks for admitting it. Let's move on now.

In other words: "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain....."

I just showed you that MS has a Dr. shortage and has long before the tort issue. I suppose that's not convenient for your OPED, so you'd rather ignore it. Whatever.

You showed that MS has a shortage of doctors in some areas. That is comparing MS to the rest of the country. That isn't germane here. What is germane is the state of MS prior to tort reform and after tort reform. And teh results show tort reform works.
Sorry.

 

[Navy1960]

In Mississippi’s rural areas, access to health care is a growing concern. Access to primary care
physicians is of particular concern. A large percentage of Mississippi’s population is living in
poverty (20%), and 39% is comprised of minorities (36% African-American). Research shows
a close relationship between poverty, minority composition, and health care access. University
of North Carolina researchers have found that only 11% of U.S. physicians are located in rural
areas, whereas 20% of the U.S. population is rural. Nationally, the number of physicians increased
nearly 25% between 1990 and 1997. During that same period, the number of rural physicians grew
by only 11%. The shortage of rural physicians is not improving, and projections indicate there will
continue to be a problem in the future.1
Unequal access to health care is a critical concern in Mississippi, a state with a largely rural
population, a high minority composition, high poverty rates, and some of the unhealthiest residents
in the nation. Mississippi’s primary care physician population, often the first to treat patients, is a
key component of health care access. This Health Map examines the number and location of
primary care physicians in Mississippi using data from the Mississippi Physician Labor Force Study.
http://www.healthpolicy.msstate.edu/publications/healthmaps/primcarephys.pdf

Given these
factors, declining Medicaid reimbursement rates, and a
tenuous legal climate that has raised physician insurance
premiums, Mississippi faces a continuing challenge in
recruiting and retaining physicians.4


While excessive malpractice lititgation is a factor in the decline of Physicians as seen in the study from MSU and UofM it is one factor in many. To address the issue of malpractice with tort reform legislation alone will not solve this as will passing healthcare legislation that excludes it because if the number of Doctors continues to decline it has a direct effect on delivery and cost. In the end, it makes sense to craft some form of malpractice reform in healthcare legislation , at this point though especially when it applies to tort reform itself , I'm not so sure how you do that on a national level as it does appear to be a state issue.