Top Iranian Jew questions aliya

[Shogun]

A top Iranian Jewish community leader on Wednesday described the recent immigration of 40 Iranian Jews to Israel as a "misinformation campaign" and insisted that Jews living in the Islamic Republic were not in danger under the hard-line policies of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

Forty Iranians landed in Israel on Tuesday after a secret journey to the Jewish state. No details about their route of exit from Iran were given, but it was assumed they came through a third country.

Ciamak Morsathegh, who heads the Teheran Jewish Committee, claimed Wednesday that the immigrants were not Iranian because pictures broadcast on television in Israel on Tuesday did not show their faces. In Israel, the broadcasters did not show their faces because there was concern that publicity could lead to harm of Jews still in Iran.

"This is a misinformation campaign, a campaign of lies against Iran and its Jewish community. We can't confirm that 40 Iranian Jews landed in Israel," Morsathegh told The Associated Press.




A joint statement signed by Morsathegh and Morris Motamed, the only Jewish lawmaker in the Iranian parliament, also said the Iranian Jews have never been part of any "organized immigration" to Israel.

The operation to Israel was sponsored by the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews, a charity that funnels millions of dollars from evangelical donors each year.

Yehiel Eckstein, a rabbi who founded the fellowship, said each immigrant receives US$10,000 (€6,950) from the group to help get them started in Israel. He has warned that the situation facing Iranian Jews is critical, because of the attitude of Ahmadinejad, who has called for Israel to be "wiped off the map."

Though Iran doesn't recognize Israel, and Iranian citizens are not legally authorized to travel to the Jewish state, Morsathegh insisted Jews in Iran are not in danger.

Iran's Jewish community of about 25,000 people is protected by the country's constitution and remains the largest in the Muslim Middle East. Synagogues, Jewish schools and stores operate openly. Morsathegh said in Teheran there are 20 synagogues, eight butchers, five schools, four youth organizations and two restaurants.

Morsathegh said Iranians, including Jews, immigrated from Iran following the 1979 Islamic revolution that brought hard-line clerics to power but said there had not been an exodus of Jews from Iran in recent years.

"We are one of the oldest communities in Iran. We are free to practice our religion. Anti-Semitism is a Western phenomenon but Jews have never been in danger in Iran," said Morsathegh, who spoke in his office in the Sapir Charity Hospital, which is run by Iranian Jews.

Morsathegh said Iran's Jewish community disagreed with hard-line Ahmadinejad when he called the Holocaust a "myth" but insisted his policies do not endanger Iran's Jewish minority.

While some of the Iranian Jewish immigrants in Israel were quoted as saying that they were scared to wear a skullcap in the streets in Iran, Morsathegh said it was "sheer lies."

"We are Iranian Jews and are proud of our nationality. No amount of money can encourage us to give up Iran. Our nationality is not up for sale," Morsathegh said.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1198517215177&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull

 

[Shogun]

Evidence? who the hell needs evidence when there is a label machine handy?

 

[DeadCanDance]

I'm sure they face discrimination in iran. But, I'm not aware that there's ever been any systematic killing of jews in iran, as there has been in europe.

It's certainly not a great place to be jewish, but I don't think they're getting blown up, beheaded, and murdered in any systematic way.

 

[Gunny]

A top Iranian Jewish community leader on Wednesday described the recent immigration of 40 Iranian Jews to Israel as a "misinformation campaign" and insisted that Jews living in the Islamic Republic were not in danger under the hard-line policies of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

Forty Iranians landed in Israel on Tuesday after a secret journey to the Jewish state. No details about their route of exit from Iran were given, but it was assumed they came through a third country.

Ciamak Morsathegh, who heads the Teheran Jewish Committee, claimed Wednesday that the immigrants were not Iranian because pictures broadcast on television in Israel on Tuesday did not show their faces. In Israel, the broadcasters did not show their faces because there was concern that publicity could lead to harm of Jews still in Iran.

"This is a misinformation campaign, a campaign of lies against Iran and its Jewish community. We can't confirm that 40 Iranian Jews landed in Israel," Morsathegh told The Associated Press.




A joint statement signed by Morsathegh and Morris Motamed, the only Jewish lawmaker in the Iranian parliament, also said the Iranian Jews have never been part of any "organized immigration" to Israel.

The operation to Israel was sponsored by the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews, a charity that funnels millions of dollars from evangelical donors each year.

Yehiel Eckstein, a rabbi who founded the fellowship, said each immigrant receives US$10,000 (€6,950) from the group to help get them started in Israel. He has warned that the situation facing Iranian Jews is critical, because of the attitude of Ahmadinejad, who has called for Israel to be "wiped off the map."

Though Iran doesn't recognize Israel, and Iranian citizens are not legally authorized to travel to the Jewish state, Morsathegh insisted Jews in Iran are not in danger.

Iran's Jewish community of about 25,000 people is protected by the country's constitution and remains the largest in the Muslim Middle East. Synagogues, Jewish schools and stores operate openly. Morsathegh said in Teheran there are 20 synagogues, eight butchers, five schools, four youth organizations and two restaurants.

Morsathegh said Iranians, including Jews, immigrated from Iran following the 1979 Islamic revolution that brought hard-line clerics to power but said there had not been an exodus of Jews from Iran in recent years.

"We are one of the oldest communities in Iran. We are free to practice our religion. Anti-Semitism is a Western phenomenon but Jews have never been in danger in Iran," said Morsathegh, who spoke in his office in the Sapir Charity Hospital, which is run by Iranian Jews.

Morsathegh said Iran's Jewish community disagreed with hard-line Ahmadinejad when he called the Holocaust a "myth" but insisted his policies do not endanger Iran's Jewish minority.

While some of the Iranian Jewish immigrants in Israel were quoted as saying that they were scared to wear a skullcap in the streets in Iran, Morsathegh said it was "sheer lies."

"We are Iranian Jews and are proud of our nationality. No amount of money can encourage us to give up Iran. Our nationality is not up for sale," Morsathegh said.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1198517215177&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull

Top? You mean "only token" don't you?

 

[Shogun]

as opposed to a Palestinians dream of becoming PM of Israel?



Hey we can both toss out zingers!


Where are all the muslim hating zionists when there is GOOD NEWS from a muslim nation? Gosh, it's almost like....

 

[Gunny]

as opposed to a Palestinians dream of becoming PM of Israel?



Hey we can both toss out zingers!


Where are all the muslim hating zionists when there is GOOD NEWS from a muslim nation? Gosh, it's almost like....

All bs-ing aside, this is damage control, nothing more or less.

 

[Shogun]

maybe it is, maybe it isn't. What seems to be the case is that there is a jewish population living in what some would have you believe is a bastion of jew hating muslims. Now, for sure, there are reasons jews and muslims won't gel considering the blank check policy of israel and the violent raction of muslims.. But, simply accepting what this sotry tells us as "damage ontrol" is going a bit far. Indeed, we have jewish Iranians in Israel AND iran calling bullshit on an israeli policy meant to demonize muslims rather than save anyone from apparent harm. THAT, sir, speaks volumes.

 

[Gunny]

maybe it is, maybe it isn't. What seems to be the case is that there is a jewish population living in what some would have you believe is a bastion of jew hating muslims. Now, for sure, there are reasons jews and muslims won't gel considering the blank check policy of israel and the violent raction of muslims.. But, simply accepting what this sotry tells us as "damage ontrol" is going a bit far. Indeed, we have jewish Iranians in Israel AND iran calling bullshit on an israeli policy meant to demonize muslims rather than save anyone from apparent harm. THAT, sir, speaks volumes.

And indeed is there not likewise an Arab population living in what some would have us believe is a bastion of Muslim-hating Jews?

 

[Shogun]

the difference being that we AUTOMATICALLY give one the benefit of the doubt while having no intention of extending the same to the other.. now, which blank do you want to fill in? Indeed, which do we make excuse for when they get caught up in a lie (see above article) and which to we insist is more dangerous than they are for the sake of averting the Scarlet A?

 

[Shogun]

Hey Jillian! Why don't you come on in here and tell me what kind of a fucking jew hating racist I am for DARING to post an article like the one above where IRANIAN JEWS call bullshit on the israeli machine?


I mean, they are probably jew hating antisemites too, you know? We could probably avoid them altogether if you cry antisemite enough times.

 

[jillian]

Hey Jillian! Why don't you come on in here and tell me what kind of a fucking jew hating racist I am for DARING to post an article like the one above where IRANIAN JEWS call bullshit on the israeli machine?


I mean, they are probably jew hating antisemites too, you know? We could probably avoid them altogether if you cry antisemite enough times.

Who says you shouldn't have "dared" to post the article. You're free to post all the garbage you want.

So what would you do if I said to your face that the crap you spew would get jews dead? Just bringing a little reality to your fantasy world. You gonna hit me for it? Or just toss another tantrum?

 

[William Joyce]

So what would you do if I said to your face that the crap you spew would get jews dead?

Are you arguing here for European/British-style "hate speech" and/or Holocaust "denial" prohibitions? I'm not sure they work so well. Folks end up going to jail for speaking their minds, and even liberals balk. Meanwhile, resentment builds like steam in the tea kettle.

 

[Gunny]

the difference being that we AUTOMATICALLY give one the benefit of the doubt while having no intention of extending the same to the other.. now, which blank do you want to fill in? Indeed, which do we make excuse for when they get caught up in a lie (see above article) and which to we insist is more dangerous than they are for the sake of averting the Scarlet A?

I read the article. STILL sounds like damage control. I really haven't ever said one or the other how I think Iran treats its Jews. My comments concerning Iran and Jews have been pretty much restricted to President Alphabet denying the Holocaust, and calling for Israel to be wiped off the map.

 

[Shogun]

I read the article. STILL sounds like damage control. I really haven't ever said one or the other how I think Iran treats its Jews. My comments concerning Iran and Jews have been pretty much restricted to President Alphabet denying the Holocaust, and calling for Israel to be wiped off the map.

another misnomer. Did you actually hear the words "israel wiped off the map" come from that mans lips or are you trusting people to tell you that's what he said? Can you see where the same people willing to fib about iranian jews forthe sake of contention might very well do the same think when irans president asks the VALID question, "why should muslims in the mid east pay the price for european racism" WHEN JUSTIFICATION OF ISRAEL IS AT STAKE?

 

[Annie]

another misnomer. Did you actually hear the words "israel wiped off the map" come from that mans lips or are you trusting people to tell you that's what he said? Can you see where the same people willing to fib about iranian jews forthe sake of contention might very well do the same think when irans president asks the VALID question, "why should muslims in the mid east pay the price for european racism" WHEN JUSTIFICATION OF ISRAEL IS AT STAKE?

So no one can be trusted to transcribe the rat's words? What exactly do you mean by the last capitalized 'sentence'?

 

[Shogun]

So no one can be trusted to transcribe the rat's words? What exactly do you mean by the last capitalized 'sentence'?

that RAT? lovely. I can tell you are looking for actual translations that are not an israeli mantra by now.

It sure is easy to hop on israels bandwagon when they've got you convinced that the big evil world is out to get them. They tell you that irans jews suffer and then irans jews call bullshit and who do you believe? irans president makes a valid question regarding the mid east paying the rice for euro racism and instead of validating his actual quote you simply accept that he said that jews should all die under a nuclear mushroom cloud. My last capitolized sentence illustrates how some would rather believe whatever it takes to allow israel a blank check than discover a truth that mars that hebrew halo.


"Imam ghoft een rezhim-e ishghalgar-e qods bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad."

Thats the quote.

 

[Annie]

that RAT? lovely. I can tell you are looking for actual translations that are not an israeli mantra by now.

It sure is easy to hop on israels bandwagon when they've got you convinced that the big evil world is out to get them. They tell you that irans jews suffer and then irans jews call bullshit and who do you believe? irans president makes a valid question regarding the mid east paying the rice for euro racism and instead of validating his actual quote you simply accept that he said that jews should all die under a nuclear mushroom cloud. My last capitolized sentence illustrates how some would rather believe whatever it takes to allow israel a blank check than discover a truth that mars that hebrew halo.


"Imam ghoft een rezhim-e ishghalgar-e qods bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad."

Thats the quote.

I feel towards 'the rat' what you seem to feel towards the Jews. In any case, you failed to answer about which translation is acceptable, if any.

 

[Shogun]

I feel towards 'the rat' what you seem to feel towards the Jews. In any case, you failed to answer about which translation is acceptable, if any.

Is that so? Can you quote me in any post suggesting that JEWS are less than human? Please, show me where MY words have been critical of anyone besides ZIONISTS who put a common ethnic nation ahead of suffereing humanity. PLEASE use my own posts against me to show how I "seem to feel towards the jews".


This is exactly what I'm talking about. You would rather insist that I hate jews than open the scope of your consideration wide enough to see the price paid in humanity for the sake of israel. Is it easier to demonize my motivation than actually address the ISSUE OF THE IRANIAN PRESIDENTS ACTUAL QUOTE? Hell, I dug up the quote rather than call you a zionist enabler. I can see that giving you a chance to debate the topic rather than expecting the standard SCARLET A response was a waste of time.


Obviously when your translator is busted lying about the plight of iranian jews one might also question their transcription of their most hated enemy. Instead of critically thinking about his feel free to call me a jew hating anti semite.



"Wiped off the page of time" translation

Many news sources have presented one of Ahmadinejad's phrases in Persian as a statement that "Israel must be wiped off the map",[5][6][7] an English idiom which means to "cause a place to stop to exist",[8] or to "obliterate totally",[9] or "destroy completely".[10]

Ahmadinejad's phrase was " بايد از صفحه روزگار محو شود " according to the text published on the President's Office's website.[11]

The translation presented by IRIB has been challenged by Mr. Arash Norouzi, who proposes that the statement "wiped off the map" was never made and that Ahmadinejad did not refer to the nation or land mass of Israel, but to the "regime occupying Jerusalem". He says that the Iranian government News Agency IRIB/IRNA translation is the source of the myth:

One may wonder: where did this false interpretation originate? Who is responsible for the translation that has sparked such worldwide controversy? The answer is surprising. The inflammatory 'wiped off the map' quote was first disseminated not by Iran's enemies, but by Iran itself. The Islamic Republic News Agency, Iran's official propaganda arm, used this phrasing in the English version of some of their news releases covering the World Without Zionism conference. International media including the BBC, Al Jazeera, Time magazine and countless others picked up the IRNA quote and made headlines out of it without verifying its accuracy, and rarely referring to the source. Iran's Foreign Minister soon attempted to clarify the statement, but the quote had a life of its own. Though the IRNA wording was inaccurate and misleading, the media assumed it was true, and besides, it made great copy.[12]

According to Juan Cole, a University of Michigan Professor of Modern Middle East and South Asian History, Ahmadinejad's statement should be translated as:

The Imam said that this regime occupying Jerusalem (een rezhim-e eshghalgar-e qods) must [vanish from] the page of time (bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad).[13]

Norouzi's translation is identical.[12] According to Cole, "Ahmadinejad did not say he was going to 'wipe Israel off the map' because no such idiom exists in Persian". Instead, "He did say he hoped its regime, i.e., a Jewish-Zionist state occupying Jerusalem, would collapse."[14]



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Ahmadinejad_and_Israel


Hey kath, feel free to ignore all of that. It's not like evidence has any utility when the sake of israel is involved. Indeed, FEEL FREE to assume that I "seem to" hate jews instead of taking a critical look at the products of zionism in the mid east. Hell, it's GOTTA be easier than listening to me or Iranian jews or, get a load of this, THE ACTUAL QUOTES.

 

[Annie]

Is that so? Can you quote me in any post suggesting that JEWS are less than human? Please, show me where MY words have been critical of anyone besides ZIONISTS who put a common ethnic nation ahead of suffereing humanity. PLEASE use my own posts against me to show how I "seem to feel towards the jews".


This is exactly what I'm talking about. You would rather insist that I hate jews than open the scope of your consideration wide enough to see the price paid in humanity for the sake of israel. Is it easier to demonize my motivation than actually address the ISSUE OF THE IRANIAN PRESIDENTS ACTUAL QUOTE? Hell, I dug up the quote rather than call you a zionist enabler. I can see that giving you a chance to debate the topic rather than expecting the standard SCARLET A response was a waste of time.


Obviously when your translator is busted lying about the plight of iranian jews one might also question their transcription of their most hated enemy. Instead of critically thinking about his feel free to call me a jew hating anti semite.



"Wiped off the page of time" translation

Many news sources have presented one of Ahmadinejad's phrases in Persian as a statement that "Israel must be wiped off the map",[5][6][7] an English idiom which means to "cause a place to stop to exist",[8] or to "obliterate totally",[9] or "destroy completely".[10]

Ahmadinejad's phrase was " بايد از صفحه روزگار محو شود " according to the text published on the President's Office's website.[11]

The translation presented by IRIB has been challenged by Mr. Arash Norouzi, who proposes that the statement "wiped off the map" was never made and that Ahmadinejad did not refer to the nation or land mass of Israel, but to the "regime occupying Jerusalem". He says that the Iranian government News Agency IRIB/IRNA translation is the source of the myth:

One may wonder: where did this false interpretation originate? Who is responsible for the translation that has sparked such worldwide controversy? The answer is surprising. The inflammatory 'wiped off the map' quote was first disseminated not by Iran's enemies, but by Iran itself. The Islamic Republic News Agency, Iran's official propaganda arm, used this phrasing in the English version of some of their news releases covering the World Without Zionism conference. International media including the BBC, Al Jazeera, Time magazine and countless others picked up the IRNA quote and made headlines out of it without verifying its accuracy, and rarely referring to the source. Iran's Foreign Minister soon attempted to clarify the statement, but the quote had a life of its own. Though the IRNA wording was inaccurate and misleading, the media assumed it was true, and besides, it made great copy.[12]

According to Juan Cole, a University of Michigan Professor of Modern Middle East and South Asian History, Ahmadinejad's statement should be translated as:

The Imam said that this regime occupying Jerusalem (een rezhim-e eshghalgar-e qods) must [vanish from] the page of time (bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad).[13]

Norouzi's translation is identical.[12] According to Cole, "Ahmadinejad did not say he was going to 'wipe Israel off the map' because no such idiom exists in Persian". Instead, "He did say he hoped its regime, i.e., a Jewish-Zionist state occupying Jerusalem, would collapse."[14]



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Ahmadinejad_and_Israel


Hey kath, feel free to ignore all of that. It's not like evidence has any utility when the sake of israel is involved. Indeed, FEEL FREE to assume that I "seem to" hate jews instead of taking a critical look at the products of zionism in the mid east. Hell, it's GOTTA be easier than listening to me or Iranian jews or, get a load of this, THE ACTUAL QUOTES.

How about dealing with the first part, then we can move along?

 

[Shogun]

what first part? the one where you assume a muslim is a rat or the one where you assume that anyone looking to actually find an accurate translation must be a jew hating antisemite?



You didn't even read that post, did you?


Norouzi's translation is identical.[12] According to Cole, "Ahmadinejad did not say he was going to 'wipe Israel off the map' because no such idiom exists in Persian". Instead, "He did say he hoped its regime, i.e., a Jewish-Zionist state occupying Jerusalem, would collapse."[14]

I tellya, NOTHING says honest like being told that the israeli talking point regarding abused iranian jews is full of shit.... BY IRANIAN JEWS.

Yes, why SHOULD you look for a translation when the zionists feed you want they need to perpetuate the blank check?