Tolerance and Bigotry: What happens when the shoe is on the other foot?

[boilermaker55]

All you do is cut and paste!
Have the guts to call it like it is.

I knew that was what would happen. When someone tries having a serious posting with you and they don't comply. You turn to insults.

That's how I reply to people who can't make their own arguments for themselves instead of spewing talking points. You want a serious response? Make a serious argument.

 

[boilermaker55]

He proves nothing.
Except you and he are in the same boat. Crybaby little whiners.
Wahhh! no one believes in my god like I want them too.
Wahhh! Others are making me accept people for who they are, they need to live how I think they should live.
Wahhh!! They hate my country because we are exceptional, you know the one that held minorities and women, ( and still do) for as long as we tried too hold them as second class citizens.
WAHHH!! WAHHH! crybaby *****.

I knew that was what would happen. When someone tries having a serious posting with you and they don't comply. You turn to insults.
Just a typical fucked up republican.
Take your crybaby shit and tell it to someone who will cry with you. All you do is ***** and moan.

Read everyone of them and I dont see any persecution in any way.

There is enough space for us all. I still dont understand how you feel you are being unduly attacked.

So, how many times have I pointed out to you in this thread, what the examples were? Go back and read.

Liar. There are 39 pages to this thread. Try harder.

You just proved him right, in the very post you claimed he was wrong. The irony is amazing.

 

[Andylusion]

He proves nothing.
Except you and he are in the same boat. Crybaby little whiners.
Wahhh! no one believes in my god like I want them too.
Wahhh! Others are making me accept people for who they are, they need to live how I think they should live.
Wahhh!! They hate my country because we are exceptional, you know the one that held minorities and women, ( and still do) for as long as we tried too hold them as second class citizens.
WAHHH!! WAHHH! crybaby *****.

I knew that was what would happen. When someone tries having a serious posting with you and they don't comply. You turn to insults.
Just a typical fucked up republican.
Take your crybaby shit and tell it to someone who will cry with you. All you do is ***** and moan.

Read everyone of them and I dont see any persecution in any way.

So, how many times have I pointed out to you in this thread, what the examples were? Go back and read.

Liar. There are 39 pages to this thread. Try harder.

You just proved him right, in the very post you claimed he was wrong. The irony is amazing.

Your post doesn't even seem to understand the post you responded to. It didn't even seem to be on the same topic.

Regardless, why would I care if you believe in my G-d? If you don't believe, great. Peachy for you.

As for me, I serve the Lord, and I'll follow his laws regardless of what you pagans believe. Thanks

 

[boilermaker55]

My post was right on target.

He proves nothing.
Except you and he are in the same boat. Crybaby little whiners.
Wahhh! no one believes in my god like I want them too.
Wahhh! Others are making me accept people for who they are, they need to live how I think they should live.
Wahhh!! They hate my country because we are exceptional, you know the one that held minorities and women, ( and still do) for as long as we tried too hold them as second class citizens.
WAHHH!! WAHHH! crybaby *****.

I knew that was what would happen. When someone tries having a serious posting with you and they don't comply. You turn to insults.
Just a typical fucked up republican.
Take your crybaby shit and tell it to someone who will cry with you. All you do is ***** and moan.

Read everyone of them and I dont see any persecution in any way.

Liar. There are 39 pages to this thread. Try harder.

You just proved him right, in the very post you claimed he was wrong. The irony is amazing.

Your post doesn't even seem to understand the post you responded to. It didn't even seem to be on the same topic.

Regardless, why would I care if you believe in my G-d? If you don't believe, great. Peachy for you.

As for me, I serve the Lord, and I'll follow his laws regardless of what you pagans believe. Thanks

 

[aris2chat]

Paul and others back then did not know being gay was not a choice but something they are born as.
It is not about strange sexual or abusive acts, but about a loving relationship between two people.
When a gay couple wants to marry it is not because they desire to have sex outside of marriage.
Homosexuality is not about abnormal sex involved in ritual temple practices. It is not about rape or abuse. It is not about soldier like the greeks that mated with younger soldiers while in training or on campaign to enforce bonds and to ease tension of not having wives with them.
Being homosexual is the way god made them. They should have the right to marry the person they love.



Paul was making up his own rules, not those of the bible or Jesus.

Let me teach - yet again - a lesson about REAL tolerance. See if you can wrap your brain around this simple concept.

If you don't want to believe that Paul's teachings are a legitimate part of Christian doctrine, then DON'T BELIEVE IT. Cut it right out of your copy of the Bible, if you even have one. But stop telling other people that THEY can't believe it and that THEY have to change their religion to conform to your personal belief that Paul is illegitimate.

Oh, and Paul's rules ARE "of the Bible", because they're IN the Bible. Deal with it. Tolerate it. Mind your own freaking business.

This is about committing a hate crime against a group because of your prejudice against gays. Would you tell people to not provide a service or shun people because of color or nationality? Because of some deformity or birth defect? Because of the language they speak? Gays are born gay, it is not a choice, so why do you want to permit discrimination against them?

Hate crime? WHAT "hate crime"? Choosing not to associate with someone is now a "hate crime"?

As it happens, I don't generally "tell people" to do anything. It's not really any of my business how people choose to conduct their own lives. Maybe you should give that a try.

You don't have to invite them to your birthday party but you cannot refuse to serve in business.

> If a gay person came into that bakery and wanted to buy muffins, should they have been refused?<
>If the gay person wanted to buy a dozen carnation for a gift, should they have been refused?<
Why is a wedding cake or floral arrangement any different? Do you think they should ask what religion someone is when they order a wedding cake and then refuse because they might be jewish or muslim? Should you refuse to prove arrangements for a hindu wedding?

Please stop telling me, "We made a law that you have to do THIS" as though it means something. The discussion is about what SHOULD be, and what's right and wrong. The only people who think the law dictates morality are those who are incapable of finding morality for themselves. And don't even get me started on "This is moral, because we said so."

Circular logic isn't really logic at all. Someone should have told you.

Every single one of your "conundrums" is an easy, obvious answer . . . except not to you. I find that very revealing.

Our laws are for all people not just for one church or book. Churches do not dictate to the nation what is or not a crime. You do not have a right to reject people from your business or service because of what they are. Hate crimes are not acceptable. We accept all people from all places and faiths.
If accepting people who are gay is such a problem for you, you have the right to leave. You do not have a right to insult or threaten them in this life or the next. It is not your place to decide what is a sin. If god wants to judge, let it be god's decision, not yours.
All people of race, gender, religion, etc. are equal and have the same rights. Hate speech is not a right, it is a crime. Hate speech is not free speech. We have a responsibility for what we say. Doing harm against others is not right, verbally or physically.
Gays are not sinners and you trying to say they are is abusive and criminal.
If you cannot tolerate them you are the bigot. If you can't live in the same world with them find a place where there are no gays. It probably won't have christians either. See how far your free speech and condemning other people as sinners flies there. If you don't hold your tongue, you might loose your head.
Love from god should be unconditional, otherwise he/it is not a just god. Gays are the way god made them and to pretend otherwise would be a lie, which is also a sin in your book.
The only sin is the hate of bigots that can't find the love in their heart to accept all people for who and what they are.

 

[aris2chat]

Paul and others back then did not know being gay was not a choice but something they are born as.
It is not about strange sexual or abusive acts, but about a loving relationship between two people.
When a gay couple wants to marry it is not because they desire to have sex outside of marriage.
Homosexuality is not about abnormal sex involved in ritual temple practices. It is not about rape or abuse. It is not about soldier like the greeks that mated with younger soldiers while in training or on campaign to enforce bonds and to ease tension of not having wives with them.
Being homosexual is the way god made them. They should have the right to marry the person they love.



Paul was making up his own rules, not those of the bible or Jesus.

Let me teach - yet again - a lesson about REAL tolerance. See if you can wrap your brain around this simple concept.

If you don't want to believe that Paul's teachings are a legitimate part of Christian doctrine, then DON'T BELIEVE IT. Cut it right out of your copy of the Bible, if you even have one. But stop telling other people that THEY can't believe it and that THEY have to change their religion to conform to your personal belief that Paul is illegitimate.

Oh, and Paul's rules ARE "of the Bible", because they're IN the Bible. Deal with it. Tolerate it. Mind your own freaking business.

This is about committing a hate crime against a group because of your prejudice against gays. Would you tell people to not provide a service or shun people because of color or nationality? Because of some deformity or birth defect? Because of the language they speak? Gays are born gay, it is not a choice, so why do you want to permit discrimination against them?

Hate crime? WHAT "hate crime"? Choosing not to associate with someone is now a "hate crime"?

As it happens, I don't generally "tell people" to do anything. It's not really any of my business how people choose to conduct their own lives. Maybe you should give that a try.

You don't have to invite them to your birthday party but you cannot refuse to serve in business.

> If a gay person came into that bakery and wanted to buy muffins, should they have been refused?<
>If the gay person wanted to buy a dozen carnation for a gift, should they have been refused?<
Why is a wedding cake or floral arrangement any different? Do you think they should ask what religion someone is when they order a wedding cake and then refuse because they might be jewish or muslim? Should you refuse to prove arrangements for a hindu wedding?

Please stop telling me, "We made a law that you have to do THIS" as though it means something. The discussion is about what SHOULD be, and what's right and wrong. The only people who think the law dictates morality are those who are incapable of finding morality for themselves. And don't even get me started on "This is moral, because we said so."

Circular logic isn't really logic at all. Someone should have told you.

Every single one of your "conundrums" is an easy, obvious answer . . . except not to you. I find that very revealing.

Love is right, hate is wrong

 

[TemplarKormac]

All you do is cut and paste!

Really? Care to demonstrate that?

 

[Andylusion]

Let me teach - yet again - a lesson about REAL tolerance. See if you can wrap your brain around this simple concept.

If you don't want to believe that Paul's teachings are a legitimate part of Christian doctrine, then DON'T BELIEVE IT. Cut it right out of your copy of the Bible, if you even have one. But stop telling other people that THEY can't believe it and that THEY have to change their religion to conform to your personal belief that Paul is illegitimate.

Oh, and Paul's rules ARE "of the Bible", because they're IN the Bible. Deal with it. Tolerate it. Mind your own freaking business.

This is about committing a hate crime against a group because of your prejudice against gays. Would you tell people to not provide a service or shun people because of color or nationality? Because of some deformity or birth defect? Because of the language they speak? Gays are born gay, it is not a choice, so why do you want to permit discrimination against them?

Hate crime? WHAT "hate crime"? Choosing not to associate with someone is now a "hate crime"?

As it happens, I don't generally "tell people" to do anything. It's not really any of my business how people choose to conduct their own lives. Maybe you should give that a try.

You don't have to invite them to your birthday party but you cannot refuse to serve in business.

> If a gay person came into that bakery and wanted to buy muffins, should they have been refused?<
>If the gay person wanted to buy a dozen carnation for a gift, should they have been refused?<
Why is a wedding cake or floral arrangement any different? Do you think they should ask what religion someone is when they order a wedding cake and then refuse because they might be jewish or muslim? Should you refuse to prove arrangements for a hindu wedding?

Please stop telling me, "We made a law that you have to do THIS" as though it means something. The discussion is about what SHOULD be, and what's right and wrong. The only people who think the law dictates morality are those who are incapable of finding morality for themselves. And don't even get me started on "This is moral, because we said so."

Circular logic isn't really logic at all. Someone should have told you.

Every single one of your "conundrums" is an easy, obvious answer . . . except not to you. I find that very revealing.

Our laws are for all people not just for one church or book. Churches do not dictate to the nation what is or not a crime. You do not have a right to reject people from your business or service because of what they are. Hate crimes are not acceptable. We accept all people from all places and faiths.
If accepting people who are gay is such a problem for you, you have the right to leave. You do not have a right to insult or threaten them in this life or the next. It is not your place to decide what is a sin. If god wants to judge, let it be god's decision, not yours.
All people of race, gender, religion, etc. are equal and have the same rights. Hate speech is not a right, it is a crime. Hate speech is not free speech. We have a responsibility for what we say. Doing harm against others is not right, verbally or physically.
Gays are not sinners and you trying to say they are is abusive and criminal.
If you cannot tolerate them you are the bigot. If you can't live in the same world with them find a place where there are no gays. It probably won't have christians either. See how far your free speech and condemning other people as sinners flies there. If you don't hold your tongue, you might loose your head.
Love from god should be unconditional, otherwise he/it is not a just god. Gays are the way god made them and to pretend otherwise would be a lie, which is also a sin in your book.
The only sin is the hate of bigots that can't find the love in their heart to accept all people for who and what they are.

Actually, everything about our country was founded in faith, including our justice system.

I do not care about your excuses for sin. I've heard the exact same excuse by men cheating on their wives. Literally, verbatim. "G-d made me to cheat on my wife, and to pretend otherwise would be a lie".

We have a sin nature, which drives us to do what is wrong. G-d expects us to fight against that evil, and repent.

G-d never accepted people for who thy are, and what they are. That is not found anywhere at any point in the Bible. Not one verse, new or old testament makes that claim.

 

[Andylusion]

Let me teach - yet again - a lesson about REAL tolerance. See if you can wrap your brain around this simple concept.

If you don't want to believe that Paul's teachings are a legitimate part of Christian doctrine, then DON'T BELIEVE IT. Cut it right out of your copy of the Bible, if you even have one. But stop telling other people that THEY can't believe it and that THEY have to change their religion to conform to your personal belief that Paul is illegitimate.

Oh, and Paul's rules ARE "of the Bible", because they're IN the Bible. Deal with it. Tolerate it. Mind your own freaking business.

This is about committing a hate crime against a group because of your prejudice against gays. Would you tell people to not provide a service or shun people because of color or nationality? Because of some deformity or birth defect? Because of the language they speak? Gays are born gay, it is not a choice, so why do you want to permit discrimination against them?

Hate crime? WHAT "hate crime"? Choosing not to associate with someone is now a "hate crime"?

As it happens, I don't generally "tell people" to do anything. It's not really any of my business how people choose to conduct their own lives. Maybe you should give that a try.

You don't have to invite them to your birthday party but you cannot refuse to serve in business.

> If a gay person came into that bakery and wanted to buy muffins, should they have been refused?<
>If the gay person wanted to buy a dozen carnation for a gift, should they have been refused?<
Why is a wedding cake or floral arrangement any different? Do you think they should ask what religion someone is when they order a wedding cake and then refuse because they might be jewish or muslim? Should you refuse to prove arrangements for a hindu wedding?

Please stop telling me, "We made a law that you have to do THIS" as though it means something. The discussion is about what SHOULD be, and what's right and wrong. The only people who think the law dictates morality are those who are incapable of finding morality for themselves. And don't even get me started on "This is moral, because we said so."

Circular logic isn't really logic at all. Someone should have told you.

Every single one of your "conundrums" is an easy, obvious answer . . . except not to you. I find that very revealing.

Love is right, hate is wrong

Telling people that they will get to Heaven, without repentance, is wrong, and evil. You are leading people to their death.

I lead them to repentance in Jesus Christ, which will save them, and forgive them.

Which is hateful?

 

[aris2chat]

This is about committing a hate crime against a group because of your prejudice against gays. Would you tell people to not provide a service or shun people because of color or nationality? Because of some deformity or birth defect? Because of the language they speak? Gays are born gay, it is not a choice, so why do you want to permit discrimination against them?

Hate crime? WHAT "hate crime"? Choosing not to associate with someone is now a "hate crime"?

As it happens, I don't generally "tell people" to do anything. It's not really any of my business how people choose to conduct their own lives. Maybe you should give that a try.

You don't have to invite them to your birthday party but you cannot refuse to serve in business.

> If a gay person came into that bakery and wanted to buy muffins, should they have been refused?<
>If the gay person wanted to buy a dozen carnation for a gift, should they have been refused?<
Why is a wedding cake or floral arrangement any different? Do you think they should ask what religion someone is when they order a wedding cake and then refuse because they might be jewish or muslim? Should you refuse to prove arrangements for a hindu wedding?

Please stop telling me, "We made a law that you have to do THIS" as though it means something. The discussion is about what SHOULD be, and what's right and wrong. The only people who think the law dictates morality are those who are incapable of finding morality for themselves. And don't even get me started on "This is moral, because we said so."

Circular logic isn't really logic at all. Someone should have told you.

Every single one of your "conundrums" is an easy, obvious answer . . . except not to you. I find that very revealing.

Our laws are for all people not just for one church or book. Churches do not dictate to the nation what is or not a crime. You do not have a right to reject people from your business or service because of what they are. Hate crimes are not acceptable. We accept all people from all places and faiths.
If accepting people who are gay is such a problem for you, you have the right to leave. You do not have a right to insult or threaten them in this life or the next. It is not your place to decide what is a sin. If god wants to judge, let it be god's decision, not yours.
All people of race, gender, religion, etc. are equal and have the same rights. Hate speech is not a right, it is a crime. Hate speech is not free speech. We have a responsibility for what we say. Doing harm against others is not right, verbally or physically.
Gays are not sinners and you trying to say they are is abusive and criminal.
If you cannot tolerate them you are the bigot. If you can't live in the same world with them find a place where there are no gays. It probably won't have christians either. See how far your free speech and condemning other people as sinners flies there. If you don't hold your tongue, you might loose your head.
Love from god should be unconditional, otherwise he/it is not a just god. Gays are the way god made them and to pretend otherwise would be a lie, which is also a sin in your book.
The only sin is the hate of bigots that can't find the love in their heart to accept all people for who and what they are.

Actually, everything about our country was founded in faith, including our justice system.

I do not care about your excuses for sin. I've heard the exact same excuse by men cheating on their wives. Literally, verbatim. "G-d made me to cheat on my wife, and to pretend otherwise would be a lie".

We have a sin nature, which drives us to do what is wrong. G-d expects us to fight against that evil, and repent.

G-d never accepted people for who thy are, and what they are. That is not found anywhere at any point in the Bible. Not one verse, new or old testament makes that claim.

On the right to faith but not on any one faith. Most of the founding fathers were deists.
Jefferson edited the NT to form his own bible.
Franklin was a member of most churches, even the jewish synagogue, but rarely attended.

Our justice system represents every major faith as well as Hammurabi on the courthouse. Laws are based on what is right, not what any book alone tells us is the law. Religion might help as a guideline but it does not dictate to the country what the law should be.

 

[aris2chat]

This is about committing a hate crime against a group because of your prejudice against gays. Would you tell people to not provide a service or shun people because of color or nationality? Because of some deformity or birth defect? Because of the language they speak? Gays are born gay, it is not a choice, so why do you want to permit discrimination against them?

Hate crime? WHAT "hate crime"? Choosing not to associate with someone is now a "hate crime"?

As it happens, I don't generally "tell people" to do anything. It's not really any of my business how people choose to conduct their own lives. Maybe you should give that a try.

You don't have to invite them to your birthday party but you cannot refuse to serve in business.

> If a gay person came into that bakery and wanted to buy muffins, should they have been refused?<
>If the gay person wanted to buy a dozen carnation for a gift, should they have been refused?<
Why is a wedding cake or floral arrangement any different? Do you think they should ask what religion someone is when they order a wedding cake and then refuse because they might be jewish or muslim? Should you refuse to prove arrangements for a hindu wedding?

Please stop telling me, "We made a law that you have to do THIS" as though it means something. The discussion is about what SHOULD be, and what's right and wrong. The only people who think the law dictates morality are those who are incapable of finding morality for themselves. And don't even get me started on "This is moral, because we said so."

Circular logic isn't really logic at all. Someone should have told you.

Every single one of your "conundrums" is an easy, obvious answer . . . except not to you. I find that very revealing.

Love is right, hate is wrong

Telling people that they will get to Heaven, without repentance, is wrong, and evil. You are leading people to their death.

I lead them to repentance in Jesus Christ, which will save them, and forgive them.

Which is hateful?

You don't hold the keys to heaven or hell. It is not your job to decide where individuals go, if there is any place to go to. To terrorize people or treat them with prejudice makes you the criminal, not them.

We are all equal in this country and before god if there is one. Stop playing god, or judge.
Two thirds of the people on earth don't believe in Jesus but most of good loving people. Most people like to believe in some form of god but even those who don't can still be giving, caring people. If there is a god he is god for all people, not just those who follow your limited form of christanty and prejudice.
It is not your job to threaten or terrorize those who you believe are somehow wrong. Worry about your own sin and leave everyone else alone.

 

[Andylusion]

Hate crime? WHAT "hate crime"? Choosing not to associate with someone is now a "hate crime"?

As it happens, I don't generally "tell people" to do anything. It's not really any of my business how people choose to conduct their own lives. Maybe you should give that a try.

You don't have to invite them to your birthday party but you cannot refuse to serve in business.

> If a gay person came into that bakery and wanted to buy muffins, should they have been refused?<
>If the gay person wanted to buy a dozen carnation for a gift, should they have been refused?<
Why is a wedding cake or floral arrangement any different? Do you think they should ask what religion someone is when they order a wedding cake and then refuse because they might be jewish or muslim? Should you refuse to prove arrangements for a hindu wedding?

Please stop telling me, "We made a law that you have to do THIS" as though it means something. The discussion is about what SHOULD be, and what's right and wrong. The only people who think the law dictates morality are those who are incapable of finding morality for themselves. And don't even get me started on "This is moral, because we said so."

Circular logic isn't really logic at all. Someone should have told you.

Every single one of your "conundrums" is an easy, obvious answer . . . except not to you. I find that very revealing.

Love is right, hate is wrong

Telling people that they will get to Heaven, without repentance, is wrong, and evil. You are leading people to their death.

I lead them to repentance in Jesus Christ, which will save them, and forgive them.

Which is hateful?

You don't hold the keys to heaven or hell. It is not your job to decide where individuals go, if there is any place to go to. To terrorize people or treat them with prejudice makes you the criminal, not them.

We are all equal in this country and before god if there is one. Stop playing god, or judge.
Two thirds of the people on earth don't believe in Jesus but most of good loving people. Most people like to believe in some form of god but even those who don't can still be giving, caring people. If there is a god he is god for all people, not just those who follow your limited form of christanty and prejudice.
It is not your job to threaten or terrorize those who you believe are somehow wrong. Worry about your own sin and leave everyone else alone.

You are correct. I don't. The Bible does. I'm not playing anything. If anyone is, it's you. What I said, is simply what G-d wrote. What you said, you just made up.

Being caring, doesn't mean anything. Even Hitler cared for people. Stalin cared for people. Jeffery Dahmer cared for people.
Doesn't mean anything.

Nor am I terrorizing anyone. You again, are playing god, making up what others are doing. Inventing your own reality, that doesn't fit with fact.

 

[Andylusion]

Hate crime? WHAT "hate crime"? Choosing not to associate with someone is now a "hate crime"?

As it happens, I don't generally "tell people" to do anything. It's not really any of my business how people choose to conduct their own lives. Maybe you should give that a try.

You don't have to invite them to your birthday party but you cannot refuse to serve in business.

> If a gay person came into that bakery and wanted to buy muffins, should they have been refused?<
>If the gay person wanted to buy a dozen carnation for a gift, should they have been refused?<
Why is a wedding cake or floral arrangement any different? Do you think they should ask what religion someone is when they order a wedding cake and then refuse because they might be jewish or muslim? Should you refuse to prove arrangements for a hindu wedding?

Please stop telling me, "We made a law that you have to do THIS" as though it means something. The discussion is about what SHOULD be, and what's right and wrong. The only people who think the law dictates morality are those who are incapable of finding morality for themselves. And don't even get me started on "This is moral, because we said so."

Circular logic isn't really logic at all. Someone should have told you.

Every single one of your "conundrums" is an easy, obvious answer . . . except not to you. I find that very revealing.

Our laws are for all people not just for one church or book. Churches do not dictate to the nation what is or not a crime. You do not have a right to reject people from your business or service because of what they are. Hate crimes are not acceptable. We accept all people from all places and faiths.
If accepting people who are gay is such a problem for you, you have the right to leave. You do not have a right to insult or threaten them in this life or the next. It is not your place to decide what is a sin. If god wants to judge, let it be god's decision, not yours.
All people of race, gender, religion, etc. are equal and have the same rights. Hate speech is not a right, it is a crime. Hate speech is not free speech. We have a responsibility for what we say. Doing harm against others is not right, verbally or physically.
Gays are not sinners and you trying to say they are is abusive and criminal.
If you cannot tolerate them you are the bigot. If you can't live in the same world with them find a place where there are no gays. It probably won't have christians either. See how far your free speech and condemning other people as sinners flies there. If you don't hold your tongue, you might loose your head.
Love from god should be unconditional, otherwise he/it is not a just god. Gays are the way god made them and to pretend otherwise would be a lie, which is also a sin in your book.
The only sin is the hate of bigots that can't find the love in their heart to accept all people for who and what they are.

Actually, everything about our country was founded in faith, including our justice system.

I do not care about your excuses for sin. I've heard the exact same excuse by men cheating on their wives. Literally, verbatim. "G-d made me to cheat on my wife, and to pretend otherwise would be a lie".

We have a sin nature, which drives us to do what is wrong. G-d expects us to fight against that evil, and repent.

G-d never accepted people for who thy are, and what they are. That is not found anywhere at any point in the Bible. Not one verse, new or old testament makes that claim.

On the right to faith but not on any one faith. Most of the founding fathers were deists.
Jefferson edited the NT to form his own bible.
Franklin was a member of most churches, even the jewish synagogue, but rarely attended.

Our justice system represents every major faith as well as Hammurabi on the courthouse. Laws are based on what is right, not what any book alone tells us is the law. Religion might help as a guideline but it does not dictate to the country what the law should be.

You make up what you think is right. Prove what you say is right.

 

[aris2chat]

You don't have to invite them to your birthday party but you cannot refuse to serve in business.

> If a gay person came into that bakery and wanted to buy muffins, should they have been refused?<
>If the gay person wanted to buy a dozen carnation for a gift, should they have been refused?<
Why is a wedding cake or floral arrangement any different? Do you think they should ask what religion someone is when they order a wedding cake and then refuse because they might be jewish or muslim? Should you refuse to prove arrangements for a hindu wedding?

Please stop telling me, "We made a law that you have to do THIS" as though it means something. The discussion is about what SHOULD be, and what's right and wrong. The only people who think the law dictates morality are those who are incapable of finding morality for themselves. And don't even get me started on "This is moral, because we said so."

Circular logic isn't really logic at all. Someone should have told you.

Every single one of your "conundrums" is an easy, obvious answer . . . except not to you. I find that very revealing.

Our laws are for all people not just for one church or book. Churches do not dictate to the nation what is or not a crime. You do not have a right to reject people from your business or service because of what they are. Hate crimes are not acceptable. We accept all people from all places and faiths.
If accepting people who are gay is such a problem for you, you have the right to leave. You do not have a right to insult or threaten them in this life or the next. It is not your place to decide what is a sin. If god wants to judge, let it be god's decision, not yours.
All people of race, gender, religion, etc. are equal and have the same rights. Hate speech is not a right, it is a crime. Hate speech is not free speech. We have a responsibility for what we say. Doing harm against others is not right, verbally or physically.
Gays are not sinners and you trying to say they are is abusive and criminal.
If you cannot tolerate them you are the bigot. If you can't live in the same world with them find a place where there are no gays. It probably won't have christians either. See how far your free speech and condemning other people as sinners flies there. If you don't hold your tongue, you might loose your head.
Love from god should be unconditional, otherwise he/it is not a just god. Gays are the way god made them and to pretend otherwise would be a lie, which is also a sin in your book.
The only sin is the hate of bigots that can't find the love in their heart to accept all people for who and what they are.

Actually, everything about our country was founded in faith, including our justice system.

I do not care about your excuses for sin. I've heard the exact same excuse by men cheating on their wives. Literally, verbatim. "G-d made me to cheat on my wife, and to pretend otherwise would be a lie".

We have a sin nature, which drives us to do what is wrong. G-d expects us to fight against that evil, and repent.

G-d never accepted people for who thy are, and what they are. That is not found anywhere at any point in the Bible. Not one verse, new or old testament makes that claim.

On the right to faith but not on any one faith. Most of the founding fathers were deists.
Jefferson edited the NT to form his own bible.
Franklin was a member of most churches, even the jewish synagogue, but rarely attended.

Our justice system represents every major faith as well as Hammurabi on the courthouse. Laws are based on what is right, not what any book alone tells us is the law. Religion might help as a guideline but it does not dictate to the country what the law should be.

You make up what you think is right. Prove what you say is right.

Our Founding Fathers Were NOT Christians
The Jefferson Bible
Benjamin Franklin - New World Encyclopedia
The 18 Law Givers Shown In The Supreme Court Room Of The United States

I don't have to make these things up

Everyone should know these things

 

[TemplarKormac]

You don't hold the keys to heaven or hell.

And you don't hold the keys to a man's conscience.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Please stop telling me, "We made a law that you have to do THIS" as though it means something. The discussion is about what SHOULD be, and what's right and wrong. The only people who think the law dictates morality are those who are incapable of finding morality for themselves. And don't even get me started on "This is moral, because we said so."

Circular logic isn't really logic at all. Someone should have told you.

Every single one of your "conundrums" is an easy, obvious answer . . . except not to you. I find that very revealing.

Our laws are for all people not just for one church or book. Churches do not dictate to the nation what is or not a crime. You do not have a right to reject people from your business or service because of what they are. Hate crimes are not acceptable. We accept all people from all places and faiths.
If accepting people who are gay is such a problem for you, you have the right to leave. You do not have a right to insult or threaten them in this life or the next. It is not your place to decide what is a sin. If god wants to judge, let it be god's decision, not yours.
All people of race, gender, religion, etc. are equal and have the same rights. Hate speech is not a right, it is a crime. Hate speech is not free speech. We have a responsibility for what we say. Doing harm against others is not right, verbally or physically.
Gays are not sinners and you trying to say they are is abusive and criminal.
If you cannot tolerate them you are the bigot. If you can't live in the same world with them find a place where there are no gays. It probably won't have christians either. See how far your free speech and condemning other people as sinners flies there. If you don't hold your tongue, you might loose your head.
Love from god should be unconditional, otherwise he/it is not a just god. Gays are the way god made them and to pretend otherwise would be a lie, which is also a sin in your book.
The only sin is the hate of bigots that can't find the love in their heart to accept all people for who and what they are.

Actually, everything about our country was founded in faith, including our justice system.

I do not care about your excuses for sin. I've heard the exact same excuse by men cheating on their wives. Literally, verbatim. "G-d made me to cheat on my wife, and to pretend otherwise would be a lie".

We have a sin nature, which drives us to do what is wrong. G-d expects us to fight against that evil, and repent.

G-d never accepted people for who thy are, and what they are. That is not found anywhere at any point in the Bible. Not one verse, new or old testament makes that claim.

On the right to faith but not on any one faith. Most of the founding fathers were deists.
Jefferson edited the NT to form his own bible.
Franklin was a member of most churches, even the jewish synagogue, but rarely attended.

Our justice system represents every major faith as well as Hammurabi on the courthouse. Laws are based on what is right, not what any book alone tells us is the law. Religion might help as a guideline but it does not dictate to the country what the law should be.

You make up what you think is right. Prove what you say is right.

Our Founding Fathers Were NOT Christians
The Jefferson Bible
Benjamin Franklin - New World Encyclopedia
The 18 Law Givers Shown In The Supreme Court Room Of The United States

I don't have to make these things up

Everyone should know these things

They were religious men, who respected the right to practice your faith. Didn't matter if they weren't Christians. Your stating that they weren't in no way helps your case. Furthermore, the fact you're talking about their religion and not gay rights tells me that this isn't about Gay rights, it's about eliminating any obstacles to them, including religious objectors.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Our laws are for all people not just for one church or book. Churches do not dictate to the nation what is or not a crime. You do not have a right to reject people from your business or service because of what they are. Hate crimes are not acceptable. We accept all people from all places and faiths.
If accepting people who are gay is such a problem for you, you have the right to leave. You do not have a right to insult or threaten them in this life or the next. It is not your place to decide what is a sin. If god wants to judge, let it be god's decision, not yours.
All people of race, gender, religion, etc. are equal and have the same rights. Hate speech is not a right, it is a crime. Hate speech is not free speech. We have a responsibility for what we say. Doing harm against others is not right, verbally or physically.
Gays are not sinners and you trying to say they are is abusive and criminal.
If you cannot tolerate them you are the bigot. If you can't live in the same world with them find a place where there are no gays. It probably won't have christians either. See how far your free speech and condemning other people as sinners flies there. If you don't hold your tongue, you might loose your head.
Love from god should be unconditional, otherwise he/it is not a just god. Gays are the way god made them and to pretend otherwise would be a lie, which is also a sin in your book.
The only sin is the hate of bigots that can't find the love in their heart to accept all people for who and what they are.

Actually, everything about our country was founded in faith, including our justice system.

I do not care about your excuses for sin. I've heard the exact same excuse by men cheating on their wives. Literally, verbatim. "G-d made me to cheat on my wife, and to pretend otherwise would be a lie".

We have a sin nature, which drives us to do what is wrong. G-d expects us to fight against that evil, and repent.

G-d never accepted people for who thy are, and what they are. That is not found anywhere at any point in the Bible. Not one verse, new or old testament makes that claim.

On the right to faith but not on any one faith. Most of the founding fathers were deists.
Jefferson edited the NT to form his own bible.
Franklin was a member of most churches, even the jewish synagogue, but rarely attended.

Our justice system represents every major faith as well as Hammurabi on the courthouse. Laws are based on what is right, not what any book alone tells us is the law. Religion might help as a guideline but it does not dictate to the country what the law should be.

You make up what you think is right. Prove what you say is right.

Our Founding Fathers Were NOT Christians
The Jefferson Bible
Benjamin Franklin - New World Encyclopedia
The 18 Law Givers Shown In The Supreme Court Room Of The United States

I don't have to make these things up

Everyone should know these things

They were religious men, who respected the right to practice your faith. Didn't matter if they weren't Christians. Your stating that they weren't in no way helps your case. Furthermore, the fact you're talking about their religion and not gay rights tells me that this isn't about Gay rights, it's about eliminating any obstacles to them, including religious objectors.

Jefferson said:

"Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God; that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship; that the legislative powers of the government reach actions only, and not opinions...."

Meaning that Jefferson believed that the Constitution protected faith and worship, but not necessarily the actions that stemmed from them.

 

[Andylusion]

Please stop telling me, "We made a law that you have to do THIS" as though it means something. The discussion is about what SHOULD be, and what's right and wrong. The only people who think the law dictates morality are those who are incapable of finding morality for themselves. And don't even get me started on "This is moral, because we said so."

Circular logic isn't really logic at all. Someone should have told you.

Every single one of your "conundrums" is an easy, obvious answer . . . except not to you. I find that very revealing.

Our laws are for all people not just for one church or book. Churches do not dictate to the nation what is or not a crime. You do not have a right to reject people from your business or service because of what they are. Hate crimes are not acceptable. We accept all people from all places and faiths.
If accepting people who are gay is such a problem for you, you have the right to leave. You do not have a right to insult or threaten them in this life or the next. It is not your place to decide what is a sin. If god wants to judge, let it be god's decision, not yours.
All people of race, gender, religion, etc. are equal and have the same rights. Hate speech is not a right, it is a crime. Hate speech is not free speech. We have a responsibility for what we say. Doing harm against others is not right, verbally or physically.
Gays are not sinners and you trying to say they are is abusive and criminal.
If you cannot tolerate them you are the bigot. If you can't live in the same world with them find a place where there are no gays. It probably won't have christians either. See how far your free speech and condemning other people as sinners flies there. If you don't hold your tongue, you might loose your head.
Love from god should be unconditional, otherwise he/it is not a just god. Gays are the way god made them and to pretend otherwise would be a lie, which is also a sin in your book.
The only sin is the hate of bigots that can't find the love in their heart to accept all people for who and what they are.

Actually, everything about our country was founded in faith, including our justice system.

I do not care about your excuses for sin. I've heard the exact same excuse by men cheating on their wives. Literally, verbatim. "G-d made me to cheat on my wife, and to pretend otherwise would be a lie".

We have a sin nature, which drives us to do what is wrong. G-d expects us to fight against that evil, and repent.

G-d never accepted people for who thy are, and what they are. That is not found anywhere at any point in the Bible. Not one verse, new or old testament makes that claim.

On the right to faith but not on any one faith. Most of the founding fathers were deists.
Jefferson edited the NT to form his own bible.
Franklin was a member of most churches, even the jewish synagogue, but rarely attended.

Our justice system represents every major faith as well as Hammurabi on the courthouse. Laws are based on what is right, not what any book alone tells us is the law. Religion might help as a guideline but it does not dictate to the country what the law should be.

You make up what you think is right. Prove what you say is right.

Our Founding Fathers Were NOT Christians
The Jefferson Bible
Benjamin Franklin - New World Encyclopedia
The 18 Law Givers Shown In The Supreme Court Room Of The United States

I don't have to make these things up

Everyone should know these things

"Laws are based on what is right"

You make it up.

 

[Andylusion]

Actually, everything about our country was founded in faith, including our justice system.

I do not care about your excuses for sin. I've heard the exact same excuse by men cheating on their wives. Literally, verbatim. "G-d made me to cheat on my wife, and to pretend otherwise would be a lie".

We have a sin nature, which drives us to do what is wrong. G-d expects us to fight against that evil, and repent.

G-d never accepted people for who thy are, and what they are. That is not found anywhere at any point in the Bible. Not one verse, new or old testament makes that claim.

On the right to faith but not on any one faith. Most of the founding fathers were deists.
Jefferson edited the NT to form his own bible.
Franklin was a member of most churches, even the jewish synagogue, but rarely attended.

Our justice system represents every major faith as well as Hammurabi on the courthouse. Laws are based on what is right, not what any book alone tells us is the law. Religion might help as a guideline but it does not dictate to the country what the law should be.

You make up what you think is right. Prove what you say is right.

Our Founding Fathers Were NOT Christians
The Jefferson Bible
Benjamin Franklin - New World Encyclopedia
The 18 Law Givers Shown In The Supreme Court Room Of The United States

I don't have to make these things up

Everyone should know these things

They were religious men, who respected the right to practice your faith. Didn't matter if they weren't Christians. Your stating that they weren't in no way helps your case. Furthermore, the fact you're talking about their religion and not gay rights tells me that this isn't about Gay rights, it's about eliminating any obstacles to them, including religious objectors.

Jefferson said:

"Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God; that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship; that the legislative powers of the government reach actions only, and not opinions...."

Meaning that Jefferson believed that the Constitution protected faith and worship, but not necessarily the actions that stemmed from them.

Really couldn't care less what Jefferson said on this matter. Thanks.

G-d is far above Jefferson on the authority scale. Sorry.

 

[NYcarbineer]

On the right to faith but not on any one faith. Most of the founding fathers were deists.
Jefferson edited the NT to form his own bible.
Franklin was a member of most churches, even the jewish synagogue, but rarely attended.

Our justice system represents every major faith as well as Hammurabi on the courthouse. Laws are based on what is right, not what any book alone tells us is the law. Religion might help as a guideline but it does not dictate to the country what the law should be.

You make up what you think is right. Prove what you say is right.

Our Founding Fathers Were NOT Christians
The Jefferson Bible
Benjamin Franklin - New World Encyclopedia
The 18 Law Givers Shown In The Supreme Court Room Of The United States

I don't have to make these things up

Everyone should know these things

They were religious men, who respected the right to practice your faith. Didn't matter if they weren't Christians. Your stating that they weren't in no way helps your case. Furthermore, the fact you're talking about their religion and not gay rights tells me that this isn't about Gay rights, it's about eliminating any obstacles to them, including religious objectors.

Jefferson said:

"Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God; that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship; that the legislative powers of the government reach actions only, and not opinions...."

Meaning that Jefferson believed that the Constitution protected faith and worship, but not necessarily the actions that stemmed from them.

Really couldn't care less what Jefferson said on this matter. Thanks.

G-d is far above Jefferson on the authority scale. Sorry.

No he isn't. Try refusing to pay your taxes because God told you to.