To what degree is the national debt of the United States something of a "Malthusian Practical Joke?"

[DennisPTate]

I didn't see anything about what can be done to deal with a problem that I am also not sure I understand what that problem is. Some people think that debt and deficits are not a problem, all you gotta do is create more money, but I would disagree. Are you saying that we need a lot fewer people in the world, so that finite resources can be managed better? I think it's true that in many parts of the world, birth rates are dropping. Fewer people = smaller deficits? Maybe so.

To tell the truth, I am not too worried about neo-malthusians though.

The Malthusians are the guys who want to reduce the world's population. I vehemently disagree with them. I believe that influential people want all of us to be pessimistic and divided against each other.

I do believe that this world is going through a spiritual awakening that will eventually positively affect the economy as well as the various religions.

[Mellen Benedict] :

10. What Is the Best Religion?​

I asked God: “What is the best religion on the planet? Which one is right?” And Godhead said, with great love: “I don’t care.” That was incredible grace.

They come and they go, they change. Buddhism has not been here forever, Catholicism has not been here forever, and they are all about to become more enlightened. More light is coming into all systems now. There is going to be a reformation in spirituality that is going to be just as dramatic as the Protestant Reformation. There will be lots of people fighting about it, one religion against the next, believing that only they are right.

Everyone thinks they own God, the religions and philosophies, especially the religions, because they form big organizations around their philosophy. When Godhead said, “I don’t care,” I immediately understood that it is for us to care about. It is important, because we are the caring beings. It matters to us and that is where it is important. What you have is the energy equation in spirituality. Ultimate Godhead does not care if you are Protestant, Buddhist, or whatever. It is all a blooming facet of the whole. I wish that all religions would realize it and let each other be. It is not the end of each religion, but we are talking about the same God. Live and let live. Each has a different view. And it all adds up to the Big Picture; it is all important.

I went over to the other side during my NDE with a lot of fears about toxic waste, nuclear missiles, the population explosion, the rainforest. I came back loving every single problem. I love nuclear waste. I love the mushroom cloud; this is the holiest mandala that we have manifested to date, as an archetype. It, more than any religion or philosophy on earth, brought us together all of a sudden, to a new level of consciousness. Knowing that maybe we can blow up the planet fifty times, or 500 times, we finally realize that maybe we are all here together now. For a period they had to keep setting off more bombs to get it in to us. Then we started saying, “we do not need this any more.” Now we are actally in a safer world than we have ever been in, and it is going to get safer. So I came back from my NDE loving toxic waste, because it brought us together. These things are so big. As Peter Russell might say, these problems are now “soul size.” Do we have soul size answers, YES!

Mellen-Thomas Benedict's Near-Death Experience - Near-Death Experiences and the Afterlife

Near-Death Experiences and the Afterlife profiles Mellen-Thomas Benedict's Near-Death Experience . Did you enjoy reading this post, we have more!

near-death.com

 

[DennisPTate]

Your link also provides some interesting history from 1750:

"We are in 1750. The United States of America does not yet exist; it is the 13 Colonies of the American continent, forming 'New England', a possession of the motherland, England.

"Benjamin Franklin wrote about the population of that time: 'Impossible to find a happier and more prosperous population on all the surface of the globe.'

"Going over to England to represent the interests of the Colonies, Franklin was asked how he accounted for the prosperous conditions prevailing in the Colonies, while poverty was rife in the motherland:

“That is simple,” Franklin replied. “In the Colonies we issue our own money. It is called Colonial Scrip. We issue it in proper proportion to make the products pass easily from the producers to the consumers. In this manner, creating ourselves our own paper money, we control its purchasing power, and we have no interest to pay to no one.”
"The English bankers, being informed of that, had a law passed by the British Parliament prohibiting the Colonies from issuing their own money, and ordering them to use only the gold or silver debt-money that was provided in insufficient quantity by the English bankers.

"The circulating medium of exchange was thus reduced by half.

"'In one year,' Franklin stated, 'the conditions were so reversed that the era of prosperity ended, and a depression set in, to such an extent that the streets of the Colonies were filled with unemployed.'"​

I believe that these comments get right to the heart and core of the problem. Elected officials in Washington act as if they own the USA Dollar but in fact three hundred and fifty million Americans, in a sense own the USA dollar, and money should be created in a manner that is fair and boosts the economy in a way that benefits all citizens.

Compound Interest Over Time is causing the national debt of the USA to appear to be far more serious than needs to be the case. When President Trump called for the Federal Reserve to be audited, [I think that was back in 2015 or 2016], I suspect that he was getting at this problem that I believe is being ignored much like the proverbial "elephant in the room."

 

[kyzr]

Don't you concern yourself with dates? What they meant was lack of funding for national security! You don't know what that means do you?

That is not what the joint chiefs said.
They always got funding, except now the $1.1T of interest on the debt could cut into defense.
Mike Mullen, stated that, “the most significant threat to our national security is our debt.” It is hard to imagine a circumstance where the United States can continue to lead the world when we spend more on interest than on defense in a given year."

 

[leftwinger]

THX to Obiden//.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

That is not what the joint chiefs said.
They always got funding, except now the $1.1T of interest on the debt could cut into defense.
Mike Mullen, stated that, “the most significant threat to our national security is our debt.” It is hard to imagine a circumstance where the United States can continue to lead the world when we spend more on interest than on defense in a given year."

You just repeated what I said! It takes a colossal dumbass to post the exact same thing and tell me I am wrong.

Also, you ignored the part about 15 years ago. The interest wasn't $1.1 trillion 15 years ago. How do you reconcile your errors?

 

[22lcidw]

I believe that these comments get right to the heart and core of the problem. Elected officials in Washington act as if they own the USA Dollar but in fact three hundred and fifty million Americans, in a sense own the USA dollar, and money should be created in a manner that is fair and boosts the economy in a way that benefits all citizens.

Compound Interest Over Time is causing the national debt of the USA to appear to be far more serious than needs to be the case. When President Trump called for the Federal Reserve to be audited, [I think that was back in 2015 or 2016], I suspect that he was getting at this problem that I believe is being ignored much like the proverbial "elephant in the room."

The U.S. Dollar is owned by the Federal Reserve. A Private bank owned by mostly foreigners centered in Europe.

 

[georgephillip]

I believe that these comments get right to the heart and core of the problem. Elected officials in Washington act as if they own the USA Dollar but in fact three hundred and fifty million Americans, in a sense own the USA dollar, and money should be created in a manner that is fair and boosts the economy in a way that benefits all citizens.

Compound Interest Over Time is causing the national debt of the USA to appear to be far more serious than needs to be the case. When President Trump called for the Federal Reserve to be audited, [I think that was back in 2015 or 2016], I suspect that he was getting at this problem that I believe is being ignored much like the proverbial "elephant in the room."

How do you react to Steve Keen's observations on the threats posed by public vs private debt?

GoogleAI Overview:

"...Steve Keen argues that private debt is a bigger threat than public debt because it directly causes financial crises when it collapses, whereas public debt can act as a solution to them.

"He points to the 2008 financial crisis and the 1930s Great Depression as examples, stating that the crises were triggered by a fall in private debt, not public spending.

"Keen believes mainstream economics mistakenly focuses on the dangers of public debt while ignoring the role of private debt.

"Why Keen sees private debt as the greater threat..."

 

[kyzr]

You just repeated what I said! It takes a colossal dumbass to post the exact same thing and tell me I am wrong.
Also, you ignored the part about 15 years ago. The interest wasn't $1.1 trillion 15 years ago. How do you reconcile your errors?

My only point was that the joint chiefs said that the national debt was the #1 threat to the US fifteen years ago, and the politicians did nothing but borrow and spend more. Now its obvious that the US is in deep shit because Janet Yellen borrowed short term when interest rates were near zero, and now those bonds need to be refinanced with much higher interest rates, so the $1.1T interest on the debt is about to become $1.5T so what happens?
We borrow more to pay interest only?
Cut defense?
Cut entitlements?
Raise taxes?
Batten down the hatches a bad storm is coming.

 

[DennisPTate]

How do you react to Steve Keen's observations on the threats posed by public vs private debt?

GoogleAI Overview:

"...Steve Keen argues that private debt is a bigger threat than public debt because it directly causes financial crises when it collapses, whereas public debt can act as a solution to them.

"He points to the 2008 financial crisis and the 1930s Great Depression as examples, stating that the crises were triggered by a fall in private debt, not public spending.

"Keen believes mainstream economics mistakenly focuses on the dangers of public debt while ignoring the role of private debt.

"Why Keen sees private debt as the greater threat..."

i think that he is absolutely correct. it is well known up here in Canada that we Canadians are drowning in debt. My impression is that the situation in the USA is similar.

 

[berg80]

When the dollar crashes its no joke.

Rating agencies keep dropping the US credit rating

We pay $1.1T in interest on the $38T debt, more than defense.

There is going to be a tipping point when foreign buyers of our bonds/treasury notes begin to demand higher and higher bond yields to assume the risk of buying the debt of a country with no hope of balancing the annual budget let alone paying down the debt. Then the financial, global, death spiral begins. That's when you're going to want to own gold.

 

[DennisPTate]

The U.S. Dollar is owned by the Federal Reserve. A Private bank owned by mostly foreigners centered in Europe.

I believe that this is exactly the issue that President Trump wants to be exposed when he called for "Auditing the Fed."

 

[DennisPTate]

My only point was that the joint chiefs said that the national debt was the #1 threat to the US fifteen years ago, and the politicians did nothing but borrow and spend more. Now its obvious that the US is in deep shit because Janet Yellen borrowed short term when interest rates were near zero, and now those bonds need to be refinanced with much higher interest rates, so the $1.1T interest on the debt is about to become $1.5T so what happens?
We borrow more to pay interest only?
Cut defense?
Cut entitlements?
Raise taxes?
Batten down the hatches a bad storm is coming.

Notice when really intelligent people do things that are obviously not very smart at all.

The situation here in Canada is only a little bit different than the situation in the USA but three economists pooled their efforts to expose some of the corruption up here, [that is highly relevant to the USA as well].

Economist John Hotson:
Economist Harold Chorney:
Economist Mario Seccarrecia:

The creation of money​

“One of the most pervasive myths about the government deficit is that governments which spend more than they receive in revenue must borrow the difference, thus increasing the public debt.

“In fact, a government can choose to create the needed additional money instead of borrowing it from the banks, the public, or foreigners.

“Business and the conservatives in politics and the media are horrified by the suggestion that the government exercise its right to create more money. They claim it would precipitate another ruinous bout of inflation.

“But money creation is money creation — whether by a private bank or the Bank of Canada. And a government in debt only to the government's own bank is not really in debt at all. If it wants to go through the rigamarole of having the Treasury «borrow» from the central bank and later pay interest, that is a minor matter of bookkeeping. As long as the central bank's profits are returned to the Treasury, the results are much the same as if the Treasury had created the money itself.

“There is no reason why the growth of Canada's money supply (averaging about $22 billion annually in recent years) could not be more substantially created by the Bank of Canada. If that policy had been followed, the federal government would not have been obliged to add to its debts to pay interest on old debts. Instead, the Bank of Canada has produced barely 2% of the money added in recent years, while the chartered banks added the rest as they made loans to households, businesses, and all levels of government. At the very least, the Bank of Canada and the chartered banks should share the privilege of creating money on a 50-50 basis.

“Those who dismiss such a proposal as «inflationary» should be required to explain why it would be more inflationary for the government's bank to create $11 billion and the private banks $11 billion, rather than the present practice of having the government's bank create $0.7 billion and the private banks $21.3 billion!

“Clearly the current problem of the Canadian government's deficit is not its absolute size, or its size relative to the GDP, but the insane way it is being financed. A return to the policies of the World War II era, when the Bank of Canada produced almost one-half of the new money at near-zero interest, would do wonders for the economy, while greatly shrinking the deficit... The first order of business for a post-Mulroney-era government must be to regain effective control of the Bank of Canada and make it the primary source of money creation.

“It is ludicrous for the government to put billions of dollars into circulation by borrowing from the private banks, when it can create the extra money it needs, virtually free.

Appendix B — The Bank of Canada Must Finance our Country, Debt-Free, Say Three Economists

Here are excerpts from a pamphlet published in 1992 entitled The Deficit Made Me Do It!, edited by Ed Finn, of the Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives, in which three economists (Harold Chorney, John Hotson, and Mario Seccareccia) debunk the myths about government debt, and repeat, in their...

famguardian.org

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