To what degree is the national debt of the United States something of a "Malthusian Practical Joke?"

To what degree is the national debt of the USA something of a practical joke?

  • Zero to ten percent a joke.

    Votes: 1 33.3%
  • Eleven to twenty percent a joke.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Twenty one to thirty percent a joke.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • More than thirty percent a practical joke on Americans by the owners of BigMedia.

    Votes: 1 33.3%
  • Other answer, please be specific in a reply.

    Votes: 1 33.3%

  • Total voters
    3
Mostly ourselves.
"Ourselves" = corporations, individuals, private institutions, the Federal Reserve, state and local governments, etc.

The Federal Reserve returns the interest payments to the Treasury, but everyone else keeps it.

So how does "ourselves" make our debt payments any less burdensome?

Answer: It doesn't.

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The neo-Malthusians were discredited a long time ago. All of their doom-and-gloom predictions came to nought.

In fact, there was a famous bet between a neo-Malthusian and an economist in 1980. The neo-Malthusian lost the bet, bigly.



What any of this has to do with the federal debt is beyond me, but everyone who has seen my posts on this board knows the federal debt is my single biggest issue.

Sooner or later, our debtors are going to doubt our ability to pay them back, and they are going to demand higher interest rates on any new debt.

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Your points are valid but the "Innovating to zero" lecture proves that the Neo-Malthusians have not given up, and they planned to use the C o v i d 1 9 pandemic to enforce the basic idea of "Innovating to zero."

Now that that plan didn't work you can rest assured that they will have a back up plan.




Innovating to zero! | Bill Gates​


4,642,982 views Feb 20, 2010

http://www.ted.com At TED2010, Bill Gates unveils his vision for the world's energy future, describing the need for "miracles" to avoid planetary catastrophe and explaining why he's backing a dramatically different type of nuclear reactor. The necessary goal? Zero carbon emissions globally by 2050.
 
The neo-Malthusians were discredited a long time ago. All of their doom-and-gloom predictions came to nought.

In fact, there was a famous bet between a neo-Malthusian and an economist in 1980. The neo-Malthusian lost the bet, bigly.



What any of this has to do with the federal debt is beyond me, but everyone who has seen my posts on this board knows the federal debt is my single biggest issue.

Sooner or later, our debtors are going to doubt our ability to pay them back, and they are going to demand higher interest rates on any new debt.

.
But if the United States is about to have a shift of manufacturing away from China and back to the USA, and if USA workers will become more productive due to the use of the most up to date technology then with an America that is more productive then the value of the USA dollar is stable, because the USA dollar is backed up by the productivity of USA workers.
 
Annual federal revenues for FY2024 was $4.9 trillion.

Before we could spend any of that on defense, Social Security, infrastructure, tax expenditures, etc. we had to hack off $1.1 trillion to pay to our debtors, leaving only $3.8 trillion for those other outlays.

This is how we get a snowball effect of debt.
 
Your points are valid but the "Innovating to zero" lecture proves that the Neo-Malthusians have not given up, and they planned to use the C o v i d 1 9 pandemic to enforce the basic idea of "Innovating to zero."
"Innovating to zero" is about reducing pollution to zero. It is not about running out of resources.
 
"Innovating to zero" is about reducing pollution to zero. It is not about running out of resources.
But the extreme political left attempted to pretty much shut down the economy of the USA and Canada during C o v i d 19. Carbon dioxide is not really a pollutant. Every living thing on this earth depends on atmospheric CO2.

Whoever managed to get Bill Gates to read the script to that lecture was obviously at work over these past six years.


Carbon Dioxide Fertilization Greening Earth, Study Finds​

The headshot image of Karl B. Hille

Karl B. Hille​

APR 26, 2016
From a quarter to half of Earth’s vegetated lands has shown significant greening over the last 35 years largely due to rising levels of atmospheric carbon dioxide, according to a new study published in the journal Nature Climate Change on April 25.

An international team of 32 authors from 24 institutions in eight countries led the effort, which involved using satellite data from NASA’s Moderate Resolution Imaging Spectrometer and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration’s Advanced Very High Resolution Radiometer instruments to help determine the leaf area index, or amount of leaf cover, over the planet’s vegetated regions. The greening represents an increase in leaves on plants and trees equivalent in area to two times the continental United States.


 
But if the United States is about to have a shift of manufacturing away from China and back to the USA, and if USA workers will become more productive due to the use of the most up to date technology then with an America that is more productive then the value of the USA dollar is stable, because the USA dollar is backed up by the productivity of USA workers.
More than 80 percent of manufacturing jobs which have disappeared were automated out of existence. They are never coming back.

Anyone who tells you they are going to bring manufacturing jobs back is a lying demagogue.

In fact, more and more manufacturing jobs are going to become extinct here. In China, there are entire factories who have no humans working in them. They are entirely automated. They don't even have any lighting turned on because machines don't need lights.

Our manufacturers are behind the curve but they are going to catch up.

The US makes more goods than ever before. Did you know that? To listen to your lying demagogues, you'd think we make less.

As I have explained many times before, at the time our Constitution was ratified 98 percent of Americans were in the agriculture sector and lived at a barely subsistence level.

Today, less than two percent are, and we are feeding the entire world.

What would you make of some asshole who promised to "bring back all those lost farming jobs"?

Right?

Same with mining, which was the next number one economic sector. It has also experienced a dramatic plunge in jobs, despite mining more material than ever. Trump lied out of his ass that he was going to bring those jobs back.

Mining is still making a **** ton of money, but only for a few hands.

Then manufacturing became the number one economic sector. And now it is also making more stuff with less people.

The next big economic sector is entertainment and services. That's where the jobs of the future are.


Back to manufacturing, have you ever heard of the smile curve of manufacturing revenue?

There's a reason why American corporations focus on R&D, branding, marketing, sales, and service. Because that's where the money is.

There's no money in making the product. We let someone else, or robots, do that.

smile-curve.png
 
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Carbon dioxide is not really a pollutant. Every living thing on this earth depends on atmospheric CO2.
I've heard this incredibly ignorant statement before.

There is such as thing as too rapid a change in CO2. Plants and animal species don't have time to adapt. And this is what is happening now.
 
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Here's an American auto factory from the 1970s. Look how many workers:

.

auto-factory-1970.jpg







Here's an American auto factory today. See if you can find the humans:

.
auto-factory-today.jpg
 
1. I do know that the Joint Chiefs said that the National debt is the #1 threat to the USA
"In 2010, then-chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Adm. Mike Mullen, stated that, “the most significant threat to our national security is our debt.” It is hard to imagine a circumstance where the United States can continue to lead the world when we spend more on interest than on defense in a given year."

2. I don't understand how the Federal Reserve can just keep ignoring the $38T debt and $1.1T interest payments. One would think the MSM would ask a question or two of Chair Powell "how should congress address the debt and deficit, any recommendations?" ...and see what he'd say. He would dodge and say "that is for the elected officials to determine".
Don't you concern yourself with dates? What they meant was lack of funding for national security! You don't know what that means do you?
 
The one area of manufacturing which concerns me the utmost is our almost total lack of shipbuilding.

I keep meaning to start a topic about it. I should do that today.
 
OK, so what happens if we keep spending and borrowing, and the rating agencies rate our debt as "junk" and want higher interest rates, and then the dollar collapses, hyper-inflation hits, and we look like the Weimar Republic?
Or, we look like the USA in 1930.
 
This thread sounds a lot like a conspiracy theory to me. Debt and deficits are no joke.
But the understanding of certain events in our history that prove that there is something that can be done about this problem is important.

This is especially true at this time when robotics and Artificial Intelligence are about to radically shift our economy.
 
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Here's an American auto factory from the 1970s. Look how many workers:

.

auto-factory-1970.jpg







Here's an American auto factory today. See if you can find the humans:

.
auto-factory-today.jpg
And it is pretty obvious that our children and grandchildren will see more and more of this trend over the coming decades.
 
More than 80 percent of manufacturing jobs which have disappeared were automated out of existence. They are never coming back.

Anyone who tells you they are going to bring manufacturing jobs back is a lying demagogue.

In fact, more and more manufacturing jobs are going to become extinct here. In China, there are entire factories who have no humans working in them. They are entirely automated. They don't even have any lighting turned on because machines don't need lights.

Our manufacturers are behind the curve but they are going to catch up.

The US makes more goods than ever before. Did you know that? To listen to your lying demagogues, you'd think we make less.

As I have explained many times before, at the time our Constitution was ratified 98 percent of Americans were in the agriculture sector and lived at a barely subsistence level.

Today, less than two percent are, and we are feeding the entire world.

What would you make of some asshole who promised to "bring back all those lost farming jobs"?

Right?

Same with mining, which was the next number one economic sector. It has also experienced a dramatic plunge in jobs, despite mining more material than ever. Trump lied out of his ass that he was going to bring those jobs back.

Mining is still making a **** ton of money, but only for a few hands.

Then manufacturing became the number one economic sector. And now it is also making more stuff with less people.

The next big economic sector is entertainment and services. That's where the jobs of the future are.


Back to manufacturing, have you ever heard of the smile curve of manufacturing revenue?

There's a reason why American corporations focus on R&D, branding, marketing, sales, and service. Because that's where the money is.

There's no money in making the product. We let someone else, or robots, do that.

smile-curve.png
This is an exceptionally interesting post on this topic.

I do agree that you made a good point here:
The next big economic sector is entertainment and services. That's where the jobs of the future are." [g5000]

Robots and A. I. will get into those sectors as well but there will always be demand for skilled humans as well.
 
15th post
And it is pretty obvious that our children and grandchildren will see more and more of this trend over the coming decades.
Yes, which is why I just said the jobs future is in the services and entertainment sector.

As is a 30-hour work week.
 
This is an exceptionally interesting post on this topic.

I do agree that you made a good point here:
Thank you.

Robots and A. I. will get into those sectors as well but there will always be demand for skilled humans as well.
Jobs which AI won't eliminate any time soon:

Landscapers. There is not one blade of grass, not one shrub or bush, not one tree, not one living plant of any kind in my neighborhood which was not put there by human hands.

Plumbers. When the shit hits the fan, you'll pay any price to make it stop.

Electricians. A lot of electricians and plumbers will actually go away since houses will become prefabricated in robot factories. But we will always need a few around to rewire or repair our houses.

Engineers. I don't know though. I supposed the day will come when AIs will be designing their own updates and newer, better robots. Scary.

Nurses. The sick and the dying need human contact. And there are some tasks performed by nurses, CNAs, etc. that cannot and should never be done by machines.

Preachers. We need a spiritual life, and we need spiritual leaders. But one of the scariest things I have heard about is there are already AI's Jesus's out there and people are flocking to them. Jesus H. Christ!

Hookers. I think hookers will actually thrive in the AI future. People will need human contact more than ever. But AI tailor-made companions will also be a booming industry. A large percentage of seniors in nursing homes live and die alone. They could use a friend, robot or not.


Just as an aside, I think the written word will become obsolete within the next century. All will be done by the spoken word.
 
But the understanding of certain events in our history that prove that there is something that can be done about this problem is important.

I didn't see anything about what can be done to deal with a problem that I am also not sure I understand what that problem is. Some people think that debt and deficits are not a problem, all you gotta do is create more money, but I would disagree. Are you saying that we need a lot fewer people in the world, so that finite resources can be managed better? I think it's true that in many parts of the world, birth rates are dropping. Fewer people = smaller deficits? Maybe so.

To tell the truth, I am not too worried about neo-malthusians though.
 
It is my belief that the national debt of the United States, [as well as the national debt of Canada], is significantly a practical joke that is being played on us ignorant masses by Neo-Malthusians who control a significant percentage of the real wealth of this world.

I believe that it is important to recognize that these Neo-Malthusians are not stupid people, and they are not necessarily entirely wrong in their beliefs that we humans are too productive.... too creative..... and too destructive to the environment.

In a way that song from the seventies about taking "Paradise and turning it into a parking lot" is a one sentence summary of the basics of Neo-Malthusian economic theory and philosophy.




My guess is that Mr. Bill Gates became the "poster boy" for the Neo-Malthusians with his lecture "Innovating to zero."

Does Neo-Malthusianism have a basis in Theology?

Yes.


and of course:

Ecclesiastes 10:19
A feast is made for laughter, and wine maketh merry: but money answereth all things.


Here are some statistics for what happened just after the Civil War that I believe will help you to understand this idea.
It is my belief that the national debt of the United States, [as well as the national debt of Canada], is significantly a practical joke that is being played on us ignorant masses by Neo-Malthusians who control a significant percentage of the real wealth of this world.

I believe that it is important to recognize that these Neo-Malthusians are not stupid people, and they are not necessarily entirely wrong in their beliefs that we humans are too productive.... too creative..... and too destructive to the environment.

In a way that song from the seventies about taking "Paradise and turning it into a parking lot" is a one sentence summary of the basics of Neo-Malthusian economic theory and philosophy.




My guess is that Mr. Bill Gates became the "poster boy" for the Neo-Malthusians with his lecture "Innovating to zero."

Does Neo-Malthusianism have a basis in Theology?

Yes.


and of course:

Ecclesiastes 10:19
A feast is made for laughter, and wine maketh merry: but money answereth all things.


Here are some statistics for what happened just after the Civil War that I believe will help you to understand this idea.
Your link also provides some interesting history from 1750:

"We are in 1750. The United States of America does not yet exist; it is the 13 Colonies of the American continent, forming 'New England', a possession of the motherland, England.

"Benjamin Franklin wrote about the population of that time: 'Impossible to find a happier and more prosperous population on all the surface of the globe.'

"Going over to England to represent the interests of the Colonies, Franklin was asked how he accounted for the prosperous conditions prevailing in the Colonies, while poverty was rife in the motherland:

“That is simple,” Franklin replied. “In the Colonies we issue our own money. It is called Colonial Scrip. We issue it in proper proportion to make the products pass easily from the producers to the consumers. In this manner, creating ourselves our own paper money, we control its purchasing power, and we have no interest to pay to no one.”
"The English bankers, being informed of that, had a law passed by the British Parliament prohibiting the Colonies from issuing their own money, and ordering them to use only the gold or silver debt-money that was provided in insufficient quantity by the English bankers.

"The circulating medium of exchange was thus reduced by half.

"'In one year,' Franklin stated, 'the conditions were so reversed that the era of prosperity ended, and a depression set in, to such an extent that the streets of the Colonies were filled with unemployed.'"
 
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