To Save the Schools, We Must Change the Social Contract

[BasicHumanUnit]

Yes.

That is because in my state, my idiot legislature has passed a law that we cannot touch children except in the most dire emergencies. So. If you have a five year old child hitting, biting, kicking and throwing things in the room, and you are the only adult in the room, YOU CANNOT RESTRAIN THAT CHILD. You cannot even touch the child. By law.

At that point your only recompense is to remove the other children from the room. For their safety and for yours.

I would also like to point out to everyone who is so naive in this thread how very physically destructive young people, even children, can be when they are melting down. Realize most of us who work in elementary schools are women. I am very petite. Many third graders outweigh me. So yes, these children can easily take me out. Realize I did not go into this job thinking that hand to hand combat was part of the job.

So really.

I will admit that I forgot that while I'm fairly large and muscular, we are often talking about women who may be much smaller.
So on that I see your point.
A 5 or 6 year old would probably be more of a threat and harder to handle to a smaller person. Whereas, I could just stand in front of them and that would be that.

And you mentioned the LAWs. Yes. That is exactly my point about the political climate. Politics/Legislation sets the Laws.

 

[BasicHumanUnit]

Educate yourselves

Violent Behavior In Elementary Students Becoming More Prevalent

huh?
Is this not exactly what I've been saying...and even why?

 

[BasicHumanUnit]

I hope you're ready to listen now. Really listen.

You think the problems are coming from within the schools. As if the children--the products of this broken culture, really--are coming to us with clean, unwritten slates and on those slates all of us, to a teacher, are writing the most prurient and unwholesome things.

That almost never happens.

It is so rare I can tell you, yes, almost never. In CA yes and in other very liberal bastions. Otherwise, the children of this very broken, busted up and sad culture are coming to us.....well....broken, sad and busted up. Some of them have never known a stable and secure adult in their life. So really, they want the kindergarten teacher to be mommy. So while the kindergarten teacher is trying to be mommy to this child....and a lot of other children in the class...you are bashing the teacher for "teaching homosexuality". Which in all likelihood she has never done and will never do.

Wow, I'm gobsmacked at this teacher shortage. I really am. //////

Hmmm....not sure where you got that AT ALL ????
Where did I say that? (I didn't)

I said POLITICS is the root of the problem, whether it be in CA or elsewhere.
California Leads the Way Teaching LGBT History to Schoolchildren

With all due respect, you are either not reading or not comprehending. And I seriously mean no disrespect.

 

[ralfy]

Our Prussian model of public schooling; controlling the masses

Educator John Taylor Gatto’s book, “The Underground History of American Education,” describes how the system came to America:

“A small number of passionate ideological leaders visited Prussia in the first half of the 19th Century, fell in love with the order, obedience, and efficiency of its educational system and campaigned relentlessly thereafter to bring the Prussian vision to our shores. To do that, children would have to be removed from their parents and inappropriate cultural influences.”

 

[SweetSue92]

I hope you're ready to listen now. Really listen.

You think the problems are coming from within the schools. As if the children--the products of this broken culture, really--are coming to us with clean, unwritten slates and on those slates all of us, to a teacher, are writing the most prurient and unwholesome things.

That almost never happens.

It is so rare I can tell you, yes, almost never. In CA yes and in other very liberal bastions. Otherwise, the children of this very broken, busted up and sad culture are coming to us.....well....broken, sad and busted up. Some of them have never known a stable and secure adult in their life. So really, they want the kindergarten teacher to be mommy. So while the kindergarten teacher is trying to be mommy to this child....and a lot of other children in the class...you are bashing the teacher for "teaching homosexuality". Which in all likelihood she has never done and will never do.

Wow, I'm gobsmacked at this teacher shortage. I really am. //////

Hmmm....not sure where you got that AT ALL ????
Where did I say that? (I didn't)

I said POLITICS is the root of the problem, whether it be in CA or elsewhere.
California Leads the Way Teaching LGBT History to Schoolchildren

With all due respect, you are either not reading or not comprehending. And I seriously mean no disrespect.

And I am telling you POLITICS is not the root of the problem. Our culture is the problem. IOW it's not teachers teaching politics in the classroom that is really the problem. It's the cultural stew all around--that the children are coming to us FROM--that is the problem.

yes?

 

[SweetSue92]

Our Prussian model of public schooling; controlling the masses

Educator John Taylor Gatto’s book, “The Underground History of American Education,” describes how the system came to America:

“A small number of passionate ideological leaders visited Prussia in the first half of the 19th Century, fell in love with the order, obedience, and efficiency of its educational system and campaigned relentlessly thereafter to bring the Prussian vision to our shores. To do that, children would have to be removed from their parents and inappropriate cultural influences.”

So forget all that. Take it back to the one-room schoolhouse back in the day.

Are you going to pretend then that children were not "removed from their parents"?

Are you going to pretend that there was no "order, obedience and efficiency"?

I mean, go back before Horace Mann--forget all that. Would you have your children in schools and...what? You would be there too? There would be no order, obedience and efficiency?

I never know what point people are trying to make when they just throw down articles like this. Just because Mann might have been trying to make good Prussian like citizens does NOT mean good schools should not have order and efficiency. For heaven's sake

 

[progressive hunter]

I hope you're ready to listen now. Really listen.

You think the problems are coming from within the schools. As if the children--the products of this broken culture, really--are coming to us with clean, unwritten slates and on those slates all of us, to a teacher, are writing the most prurient and unwholesome things.

That almost never happens.

It is so rare I can tell you, yes, almost never. In CA yes and in other very liberal bastions. Otherwise, the children of this very broken, busted up and sad culture are coming to us.....well....broken, sad and busted up. Some of them have never known a stable and secure adult in their life. So really, they want the kindergarten teacher to be mommy. So while the kindergarten teacher is trying to be mommy to this child....and a lot of other children in the class...you are bashing the teacher for "teaching homosexuality". Which in all likelihood she has never done and will never do.

Wow, I'm gobsmacked at this teacher shortage. I really am. //////

Hmmm....not sure where you got that AT ALL ????
Where did I say that? (I didn't)

I said POLITICS is the root of the problem, whether it be in CA or elsewhere.
California Leads the Way Teaching LGBT History to Schoolchildren

With all due respect, you are either not reading or not comprehending. And I seriously mean no disrespect.

And I am telling you POLITICS is not the root of the problem. Our culture is the problem. IOW it's not teachers teaching politics in the classroom that is really the problem. It's the cultural stew all around--that the children are coming to us FROM--that is the problem.

yes?

the problem is obvious,,,its the solution that eludes you,,

 

[SweetSue92]

I hope you're ready to listen now. Really listen.

You think the problems are coming from within the schools. As if the children--the products of this broken culture, really--are coming to us with clean, unwritten slates and on those slates all of us, to a teacher, are writing the most prurient and unwholesome things.

That almost never happens.

It is so rare I can tell you, yes, almost never. In CA yes and in other very liberal bastions. Otherwise, the children of this very broken, busted up and sad culture are coming to us.....well....broken, sad and busted up. Some of them have never known a stable and secure adult in their life. So really, they want the kindergarten teacher to be mommy. So while the kindergarten teacher is trying to be mommy to this child....and a lot of other children in the class...you are bashing the teacher for "teaching homosexuality". Which in all likelihood she has never done and will never do.

Wow, I'm gobsmacked at this teacher shortage. I really am. //////

Hmmm....not sure where you got that AT ALL ????
Where did I say that? (I didn't)

I said POLITICS is the root of the problem, whether it be in CA or elsewhere.
California Leads the Way Teaching LGBT History to Schoolchildren

With all due respect, you are either not reading or not comprehending. And I seriously mean no disrespect.

And I am telling you POLITICS is not the root of the problem. Our culture is the problem. IOW it's not teachers teaching politics in the classroom that is really the problem. It's the cultural stew all around--that the children are coming to us FROM--that is the problem.

yes?

the problem is obvious,,,its the solution that eludes you,,

Let's hear it

 

[SweetSue92]

Our Prussian model of public schooling; controlling the masses

Educator John Taylor Gatto’s book, “The Underground History of American Education,” describes how the system came to America:

“A small number of passionate ideological leaders visited Prussia in the first half of the 19th Century, fell in love with the order, obedience, and efficiency of its educational system and campaigned relentlessly thereafter to bring the Prussian vision to our shores. To do that, children would have to be removed from their parents and inappropriate cultural influences.”

And realize if you go back much BEFORE Mann, you had vast differences in schooling. You had governesses, boarding schools...and children either working or street urchins. So no schooling at all for those kids.

 

[progressive hunter]

I hope you're ready to listen now. Really listen.

You think the problems are coming from within the schools. As if the children--the products of this broken culture, really--are coming to us with clean, unwritten slates and on those slates all of us, to a teacher, are writing the most prurient and unwholesome things.

That almost never happens.

It is so rare I can tell you, yes, almost never. In CA yes and in other very liberal bastions. Otherwise, the children of this very broken, busted up and sad culture are coming to us.....well....broken, sad and busted up. Some of them have never known a stable and secure adult in their life. So really, they want the kindergarten teacher to be mommy. So while the kindergarten teacher is trying to be mommy to this child....and a lot of other children in the class...you are bashing the teacher for "teaching homosexuality". Which in all likelihood she has never done and will never do.

Wow, I'm gobsmacked at this teacher shortage. I really am. //////

Hmmm....not sure where you got that AT ALL ????
Where did I say that? (I didn't)

I said POLITICS is the root of the problem, whether it be in CA or elsewhere.
California Leads the Way Teaching LGBT History to Schoolchildren

With all due respect, you are either not reading or not comprehending. And I seriously mean no disrespect.

And I am telling you POLITICS is not the root of the problem. Our culture is the problem. IOW it's not teachers teaching politics in the classroom that is really the problem. It's the cultural stew all around--that the children are coming to us FROM--that is the problem.

yes?

the problem is obvious,,,its the solution that eludes you,,

Let's hear it

I would look back in time to when our schools were some of the best in the world and start there,,

you know when they focused on the 3'rs and not indoctrination,,,

 

[SweetSue92]

I hope you're ready to listen now. Really listen.

You think the problems are coming from within the schools. As if the children--the products of this broken culture, really--are coming to us with clean, unwritten slates and on those slates all of us, to a teacher, are writing the most prurient and unwholesome things.

That almost never happens.

It is so rare I can tell you, yes, almost never. In CA yes and in other very liberal bastions. Otherwise, the children of this very broken, busted up and sad culture are coming to us.....well....broken, sad and busted up. Some of them have never known a stable and secure adult in their life. So really, they want the kindergarten teacher to be mommy. So while the kindergarten teacher is trying to be mommy to this child....and a lot of other children in the class...you are bashing the teacher for "teaching homosexuality". Which in all likelihood she has never done and will never do.

Wow, I'm gobsmacked at this teacher shortage. I really am. //////

Hmmm....not sure where you got that AT ALL ????
Where did I say that? (I didn't)

I said POLITICS is the root of the problem, whether it be in CA or elsewhere.
California Leads the Way Teaching LGBT History to Schoolchildren

With all due respect, you are either not reading or not comprehending. And I seriously mean no disrespect.

And I am telling you POLITICS is not the root of the problem. Our culture is the problem. IOW it's not teachers teaching politics in the classroom that is really the problem. It's the cultural stew all around--that the children are coming to us FROM--that is the problem.

yes?

the problem is obvious,,,its the solution that eludes you,,

Let's hear it

I would look back in time to when our schools were some of the best in the world and start there,,

you know when they focused on the 3'rs and not indoctrination,,,

That's no solution. It's wishcasting....nebulous conservative stuff, like when liberals say crap like "the arc of history bends toward justice". It's meaningless craptrap

A SOLUTION

Try again

 

[progressive hunter]

Hmmm....not sure where you got that AT ALL ????
Where did I say that? (I didn't)

I said POLITICS is the root of the problem, whether it be in CA or elsewhere.
California Leads the Way Teaching LGBT History to Schoolchildren

With all due respect, you are either not reading or not comprehending. And I seriously mean no disrespect.

And I am telling you POLITICS is not the root of the problem. Our culture is the problem. IOW it's not teachers teaching politics in the classroom that is really the problem. It's the cultural stew all around--that the children are coming to us FROM--that is the problem.

yes?

the problem is obvious,,,its the solution that eludes you,,

Let's hear it

I would look back in time to when our schools were some of the best in the world and start there,,

you know when they focused on the 3'rs and not indoctrination,,,

That's no solution. It's wishcasting....nebulous conservative stuff, like when liberals say crap like "the arc of history bends toward justice". It's meaningless craptrap

A SOLUTION

Try again

so whats you idea other than complaining all day???

 

[SweetSue92]

And I am telling you POLITICS is not the root of the problem. Our culture is the problem. IOW it's not teachers teaching politics in the classroom that is really the problem. It's the cultural stew all around--that the children are coming to us FROM--that is the problem.

yes?

the problem is obvious,,,its the solution that eludes you,,

Let's hear it

I would look back in time to when our schools were some of the best in the world and start there,,

you know when they focused on the 3'rs and not indoctrination,,,

That's no solution. It's wishcasting....nebulous conservative stuff, like when liberals say crap like "the arc of history bends toward justice". It's meaningless craptrap

A SOLUTION

Try again

so whats you idea other than complaining all day???

Ummm

It's in the OP

 

[progressive hunter]

the problem is obvious,,,its the solution that eludes you,,

Let's hear it

I would look back in time to when our schools were some of the best in the world and start there,,

you know when they focused on the 3'rs and not indoctrination,,,

That's no solution. It's wishcasting....nebulous conservative stuff, like when liberals say crap like "the arc of history bends toward justice". It's meaningless craptrap

A SOLUTION

Try again

so whats you idea other than complaining all day???

Ummm

It's in the OP

so your solution is communism???

our social contract was violated when the fed government got involved,,get them out and let the locals choose for themselves,,,

 

[bodecea]

But remember: one enlightened poster in this thread said it's not our JOB to parent, so just let the kidlets turn the tables over and go right on teaching.

Honestly, some of the stuff I read here kills brain cells it's so stupid. Like it needs a warning label: WARNING CONTENT DANGEROUS TO YOUR BRAIN....IF YOU HAVE ONE

its not your job to parent,,,but its your class and if a kid gets out of line itys your job to get them back in line,,and if that takes an ass whoopin then do it,,,

as a parent you have my permission

if you are not allowed to whoop their ass then kick them out and let the parents deal with them

Against the law in all 50 states. Most teachers cannot even touch them.

and there in lies the problem,,,

So you admit it's not the teachers....it's the law....the law passed by the people of all 50 states.

that law was never passed by the people,,,

Then...what are YOU actively doing to get the law against corporal punishment changed in your state? Tell us.

 

[dblack]

Let's hear it

I would look back in time to when our schools were some of the best in the world and start there,,

you know when they focused on the 3'rs and not indoctrination,,,

That's no solution. It's wishcasting....nebulous conservative stuff, like when liberals say crap like "the arc of history bends toward justice". It's meaningless craptrap

A SOLUTION

Try again

so whats you idea other than complaining all day???

Ummm

It's in the OP

so your solution is communism???

our social contract was violated when the fed government got involved,,get them out and let the locals choose for themselves,,,

If there was ever a case of "conflict of interest", it's government "educating" voters.

 

[Unkotare]

Kind of hard to reconcile that with compulsory education, don't you think?

A change to the social contract is the topic I believe.

So you want to do away with compulsory education?

I'd like to modify it so that children who do no meet a minimum behavioral standard would have to be homeschooled, and I'd make that mandatory on the parents or face civil and criminal liability.....

Have you considered the consequences of such a policy?

Yes.

And?

 

[bodecea]

Your school apparently failed you.

in many ways thats correct,,,

Were you an active participant in your education? Were your parents active participants in your education? Or did you expect to be an empty vessel that your teachers poured knowledge into?

yes,,

Interesting answer. I DO see how you didn't get an education.

who said I didnt get one???

i'm smart enough to have a conversation on a box full of silicone parts,,,

"who said I didnt get one???"

Your attempts at English in your posts. Your woeful lack of knowledge about schools. That's what is telling us.

 

[progressive hunter]

in many ways thats correct,,,

Were you an active participant in your education? Were your parents active participants in your education? Or did you expect to be an empty vessel that your teachers poured knowledge into?

yes,,

Interesting answer. I DO see how you didn't get an education.

who said I didnt get one???

i'm smart enough to have a conversation on a box full of silicone parts,,,

"who said I didnt get one???"

Your attempts at English in your posts. Your woeful lack of knowledge about schools. That's what is telling us.

well you seem to understand what I'm saying,,,so I must have a grasp of the language,,,

 

[bodecea]

Can't control them if the school wont let you.

You're not awfully bright

again, if you can't intimidate a room full of five year olds into compliance, then you probably should find something else to do for a living.

You see, I see our problem in Public Education to be quite the opposite. A lot of people who SHOULD be fired can't be.

"Intimidate"... so you think that's good teaching?