Time has come for a national ID for every citizen

[zzzz]

It is time for this country to create an identification card for every legal citizen and require everyone to have that ID in their possession. In the technological age we are in we have no secrets. Our age, phone numbers, addresses, even information about our houses (how many faucets we have) is available on the internet. So the argument about privacy is mute. There is no privacy anymore. There are many benefits of a national ID card and one would be illegal’s would not have any. Legal aliens would have a different ID and have an expiration date.

We have in America roadblocks by the police to check for seatbelts, drunk driving or other reasons. Why then is it wrong to set roadblocks and check ID’s?

 

[daveman]

As long as you don't insist on it being presented to vote. The left will have a cow.

 

[Modbert]

It is time for this country to create an identification card for every legal citizen and require everyone to have that ID in their possession. In the technological age we are in we have no secrets. Our age, phone numbers, addresses, even information about our houses (how many faucets we have) is available on the internet. So the argument about privacy is mute. There is no privacy anymore. There are many benefits of a national ID card and one would be illegal’s would not have any. Legal aliens would have a different ID and have an expiration date.

We have in America roadblocks by the police to check for seatbelts, drunk driving or other reasons. Why then is it wrong to set roadblocks and check ID’s?

I don't like this argument. Just because someone can figure out things thanks to the internet, doesn't mean we should give the government free reign as to their lawful right to look into our lives.

As for illegal immigrants, to believe they wouldn't be able to get their hands on a National ID card is bordering on nativity. No offense.

Having roadblocks and checking for IDs is one step closer to the Authoritarian Utopia. That may be your ideal future, but one where I feel like a prisoner because I gotta go show my ID to go to a friend's house is not.

 

[ConHog]

The system is already in place, it is called the The Real ID Act and by 2013 all states will either comply or lose federal highway funding. Seventeen states already do. It's simple, if you have a state ID it is automatically cross referenced into the national database and brings up both a picture and a digital fingerprint to positively ID you. No, it doesn't apply to JUST DL, meaning any state ID including those for non citizens if a state chooses to issue those. Contrary to Bert's worries, the Real ID Act will eliminate the possibility of fraud unless someone is sophisticated enough to hack into the database and change pictures and fingerprints in the system.

Not to mention, people might be fraudulent is a horrible excuse for not enacting something.

 

[ConHog]

It is time for this country to create an identification card for every legal citizen and require everyone to have that ID in their possession. In the technological age we are in we have no secrets. Our age, phone numbers, addresses, even information about our houses (how many faucets we have) is available on the internet. So the argument about privacy is mute. There is no privacy anymore. There are many benefits of a national ID card and one would be illegal’s would not have any. Legal aliens would have a different ID and have an expiration date.

We have in America roadblocks by the police to check for seatbelts, drunk driving or other reasons. Why then is it wrong to set roadblocks and check ID’s?

Wrong, we have checkpoints for sobriety, we do not have checkpoints for seat belts and other such things. Those would be blatantly unconstitutional. Well, except in a limited instance if a felony has occurred in the immediate area, in which case roadblocks can be temporarily established.

 

[Modbert]

The system is already in place, it is called the The Real ID Act and by 2013 all states will either comply or lose federal highway funding. Seventeen states already do. It's simple, if you have a state ID it is automatically cross referenced into the national database and brings up both a picture and a digital fingerprint to positively ID you. No, it doesn't apply to JUST DL, meaning any state ID including those for non citizens if a state chooses to issue those. Contrary to Bert's worries, the Real ID Act will eliminate the possibility of fraud unless someone is sophisticated enough to hack into the database and change pictures and fingerprints in the system.

Not to mention, people might be fraudulent is a horrible excuse for not enacting something.

Because we all know that isn't possible.

The Real ID is just another step to control over people. It has nothing to do with safety or anything such as that. At this point, a officer can walk up to you on any given street corner and by law you are required to identify yourself. He can also frisk you beforehand as to make sure you are not armed and that is all legal.

To paraphrase George Carlin, "Even if you read the papers half as good as possible, you'll see the list of our rights get shorter year by year."

 

[Annie]

It is time for this country to create an identification card for every legal citizen and require everyone to have that ID in their possession. In the technological age we are in we have no secrets. Our age, phone numbers, addresses, even information about our houses (how many faucets we have) is available on the internet. So the argument about privacy is mute. There is no privacy anymore. There are many benefits of a national ID card and one would be illegal’s would not have any. Legal aliens would have a different ID and have an expiration date.

We have in America roadblocks by the police to check for seatbelts, drunk driving or other reasons. Why then is it wrong to set roadblocks and check ID’s?

Wrong, we have checkpoints for sobriety, we do not have checkpoints for seat belts and other such things. Those would be blatantly unconstitutional. Well, except in a limited instance if a felony has occurred in the immediate area, in which case roadblocks can be temporarily established.

Regularly have seat belt stops, DWI stops:

Chicago Seat Belt Violations Lawyer | Illinois Child Restraint Law Attorney | Chicagoland Area Oak Brook IL

Seat Belt Violations

Chicago Seat Belt Ticket Lawyer
DuPage County, Cook County Attorney

Illinois state troopers and local police vigorously enforce the seat belt laws. They may set up road blocks to check use of seat belts by drivers and passengers. You can be pulled over for not wearing a seat belt. The officer does not need any additional reason for a traffic stop....

 

[Tom Clancy]

I see no harm in ID for every Citizen.

What's the big deal?

 

[ReAmericaNow]

Unfortunately I don't think that it will happen for a few reasons.
1. Corporations and other businesses make millions if not billions of dollars a year from labor of illegal immigrants.
2. Republicans are Pro Big Business and Anti Voting in the Senate
and
3. The right-wing machine has all of its nuts wound up so tight that if you mention another federal program they just might explode.

 

[ConHog]

The system is already in place, it is called the The Real ID Act and by 2013 all states will either comply or lose federal highway funding. Seventeen states already do. It's simple, if you have a state ID it is automatically cross referenced into the national database and brings up both a picture and a digital fingerprint to positively ID you. No, it doesn't apply to JUST DL, meaning any state ID including those for non citizens if a state chooses to issue those. Contrary to Bert's worries, the Real ID Act will eliminate the possibility of fraud unless someone is sophisticated enough to hack into the database and change pictures and fingerprints in the system.

Not to mention, people might be fraudulent is a horrible excuse for not enacting something.

Because we all know that isn't possible.

The Real ID is just another step to control over people. It has nothing to do with safety or anything such as that. At this point, a officer can walk up to you on any given street corner and by law you are required to identify yourself. He can also frisk you beforehand as to make sure you are not armed and that is all legal.

To paraphrase George Carlin, "Even if you read the papers half as good as possible, you'll see the list of our rights get shorter year by year."

A) Only 23 states have stop and identify laws, the other 22 have no such law, obviously meaning you are not required to do jack. In 14 of those 23 states the stop and identify law requires only a verbal answer, no "papers".

B) A police officer can NOT just walk up and frisk you. They must take you into custody to do so. No that does not mean arrest. Example , you get pulled over the LEO has reason to remove you from the vehicle, but advises you are not under arrest at this time, the LEO WILL frisk you and place you in cuffs for his own safety. That however does NOT mean that a cop can just frisk you for no reason.

Paranoia from Bert, who would have thunk it.

 

[ConHog]

It is time for this country to create an identification card for every legal citizen and require everyone to have that ID in their possession. In the technological age we are in we have no secrets. Our age, phone numbers, addresses, even information about our houses (how many faucets we have) is available on the internet. So the argument about privacy is mute. There is no privacy anymore. There are many benefits of a national ID card and one would be illegal’s would not have any. Legal aliens would have a different ID and have an expiration date.

We have in America roadblocks by the police to check for seatbelts, drunk driving or other reasons. Why then is it wrong to set roadblocks and check ID’s?

Wrong, we have checkpoints for sobriety, we do not have checkpoints for seat belts and other such things. Those would be blatantly unconstitutional. Well, except in a limited instance if a felony has occurred in the immediate area, in which case roadblocks can be temporarily established.

Regularly have seat belt stops, DWI stops:

Chicago Seat Belt Violations Lawyer | Illinois Child Restraint Law Attorney | Chicagoland Area Oak Brook IL

Seat Belt Violations

Chicago Seat Belt Ticket Lawyer
DuPage County, Cook County Attorney

Illinois state troopers and local police vigorously enforce the seat belt laws. They may set up road blocks to check use of seat belts by drivers and passengers. You can be pulled over for not wearing a seat belt. The officer does not need any additional reason for a traffic stop....

Pulling people over for not wearing seat belts =/= seat belt checkpoint.

 

[Annie]

As much as it may pain me to say it, I agree with Modbert and ACLU on this:

5 Problems with National ID Cards | American Civil Liberties Union

 

[Modbert]

Why states are resisting U.S. on plan for REAL I.D. / The Christian Science Monitor - CSMonitor.com

Behind much of the state legislative opposition to the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) plan is Missouri state Rep. Jim Guest, a conservative Republican. His primary concern: REAL ID, as DHS has dubbed the initiative, would not deter terrorists. Instead, he believes, it would be an unprecedented invasion of individual privacy, creating a databank of personal information to which officials on the local, state, and federal levels would have access.

Conservative libertarians and liberal privacy advocates balk at the requirement that the cards would eventually have an infrared chip containing such personal information as Social Security numbers – machine readable from several feet away. While critics argue that having a central databank could dramatically increase identity theft, DHS contends the secure nature of the ID would decrease it.

I'm not exactly sure why it's needed. The main objective of this is to make it harder for Terrorists to get driver's licenses. However, hackers have shown quite easily that getting access into government websites or databases is not difficult. So for them to get a National ID is just fingertips away.

 

[Modbert]

As much as it may pain me to say it, I agree with Modbert and ACLU on this:

5 Problems with National ID Cards | American Civil Liberties Union

Why would it pain you?

One only has to think logically here and realize "Hey wait a minute, this isn't going to do a thing."

If people want to stop terrorists from getting into this country, perhaps a better avenue would be Immigration Reform. After all, a number of the 9/11 hijackers were here on expired visas.

 

[ConHog]

As much as it may pain me to say it, I agree with Modbert and ACLU on this:

5 Problems with National ID Cards | American Civil Liberties Union

Let's examine those 5 reasons.

1. A national ID card system would not solve the problem that is inspiring it.

Of course not, no single thing is going to solve the issues of immigration or terrorism. But every tool helps.

2. An ID card system will lead to a slippery slope of surveillance and monitoring of citizens.

The average citizen would shocked and appalled at just how monitored they are, anyone realize that the financial bill just passed means the USG can now dig through your bank accounts sans warrant?

3. A national ID card system would require creation of a database of all Americans

Several such databases already exist.

4. ID cards would function as "internal passports" that monitor citizens' movements

Again, most Americans already carry a DL, and if not a DL, they certainly use an ATM card or credit card, this would not lead to any more ability by the USG to track your movements than they already have. Do you carry a cell phone? Then I promise someone within the USG could pinpoint your location within 3 feet at any given time within 10 minutes of the request to do so.

5. ID cards would foster new forms of discrimination and harassment

Contrary to what some lib tards would have us believe , keeping non citizens out of our country is not discrimination. It is sound policy. One shared by every civilized nation in the world.

 

[Annie]

As much as it may pain me to say it, I agree with Modbert and ACLU on this:

5 Problems with National ID Cards | American Civil Liberties Union

Why would it pain you?

One only has to think logically here and realize "Hey wait a minute, this isn't going to do a thing."

If people want to stop terrorists from getting into this country, perhaps a better avenue would be Immigration Reform. After all, a number of the 9/11 hijackers were here on expired visas.

There's something weird when I find myself in agreement with you and the ACLU, but it is what it is. I don't like the government 'keeping tabs' on my movements. Hell, I don't like that they can GPS my car and cell. Does that mean there COULD come a time that was useful? Certainly, but it's not worth all the other things that could come of it.

We don't need reform of immigration, if what is meant is a 'new amnesty.' We need enforcement of laws including visas. The numbers and locations of who we let in need reform, increasing nearly all and some drastically. Criteria of new immigrants too needs reform, based upon US needs.

 

[ConHog]

Why states are resisting U.S. on plan for REAL I.D. / The Christian Science Monitor - CSMonitor.com

Behind much of the state legislative opposition to the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) plan is Missouri state Rep. Jim Guest, a conservative Republican. His primary concern: REAL ID, as DHS has dubbed the initiative, would not deter terrorists. Instead, he believes, it would be an unprecedented invasion of individual privacy, creating a databank of personal information to which officials on the local, state, and federal levels would have access.

Conservative libertarians and liberal privacy advocates balk at the requirement that the cards would eventually have an infrared chip containing such personal information as Social Security numbers – machine readable from several feet away. While critics argue that having a central databank could dramatically increase identity theft, DHS contends the secure nature of the ID would decrease it.

I'm not exactly sure why it's needed. The main objective of this is to make it harder for Terrorists to get driver's licenses. However, hackers have shown quite easily that getting access into government websites or databases is not difficult. So for them to get a National ID is just fingertips away.

Gaining access is a far cry from altering files.

 

[Modbert]

Gaining access is a far cry from altering files.

If they can gain access to the databases, what's stopping them from altering files?

Chinese hackers: No site is safe - CNN.com

This is from 2008, they're even better now.

Cyber Warfare is the future, and if you don't think someone can get into these databases easily then you should read up more on it.

 

[Ringel05]

I have one question. Do we get to decide where the ID goes?

 

[Modbert]

There's something weird when I find myself in agreement with you and the ACLU, but it is what it is. I don't like the government 'keeping tabs' on my movements. Hell, I don't like that they can GPS my car and cell. Does that mean there COULD come a time that was useful? Certainly, but it's not worth all the other things that could come of it.

We don't need reform of immigration, if what is meant is a 'new amnesty.' We need enforcement of laws including visas. The numbers and locations of who we let in need reform, increasing nearly all and some drastically. Criteria of new immigrants too needs reform, based upon US needs.

Well we do agree on more issues than you think. Just because we fight and all doesn't change that.

I agree, I wouldn't want the government keeping tabs on me. At what point does it simply become a prisoner if there's a checkpoint every few miles?

As Benjamin Franklin once said:

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

This is a prime example of that.

As for Immigration reform, don't jump to conclusions on what I'm saying. There is currently a huge backlog on not only getting Visas but Green cards and letting people who have been here legally become citizens. Or just even deciding whether a immigrant should get these things.

That's how the 9/11 hijackers were allowed to stay here so long on expired student visas. If we want to skimp on spending the money to have the necessary people, security lapses are going to occur.

Take a look at this:



Not only this, but there are several other problems in place. I'm not saying that's the only avenue to stop terrorists from coming in, however it is a more productive one then this.