Time has come for a national ID for every citizen

[Annie]

There's something weird when I find myself in agreement with you and the ACLU, but it is what it is. I don't like the government 'keeping tabs' on my movements. Hell, I don't like that they can GPS my car and cell. Does that mean there COULD come a time that was useful? Certainly, but it's not worth all the other things that could come of it.

We don't need reform of immigration, if what is meant is a 'new amnesty.' We need enforcement of laws including visas. The numbers and locations of who we let in need reform, increasing nearly all and some drastically. Criteria of new immigrants too needs reform, based upon US needs.

Well we do agree on more issues than you think. Just because we fight and all doesn't change that.

I agree, I wouldn't want the government keeping tabs on me. At what point does it simply become a prisoner if there's a checkpoint every few miles?

As Benjamin Franklin once said:

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

This is a prime example of that.

As for Immigration reform, don't jump to conclusions on what I'm saying. There is currently a huge backlog on not only getting Visas but Green cards and letting people who have been here legally become citizens. Or just even deciding whether a immigrant should get these things.

That's how the 9/11 hijackers were allowed to stay here so long on expired student visas. If we want to skimp on spending the money to have the necessary people, security lapses are going to occur.

Take a look at this:

View attachment 11034

Not only this, but there are several other problems in place. I'm not saying that's the only avenue to stop terrorists from coming in, however it is a more productive one then this.

Well on the ID thing we're in agreement. It shocks me how quickly people are to give up their rights.

I didn't assume anything about your stand on immigration/amnesty, I said, "...if you mean..."

My point is that we don't need more laws or studies of illegals or any other legislative committee meetings. Get the ICE folks doing what they should do, encouraging states to enforce our laws and assisting and carrying out their duties with the states.

Get more State Dept. people issuing and monitoring visas.

Simply put, the government should be doing its job.

 

[ReAmericaNow]

Well on the ID thing we're in agreement. It shocks me how quickly people are to give up their rights.

I didn't assume anything about your stand on immigration/amnesty, I said, "...if you mean..."

My point is that we don't need more laws or studies of illegals or any other legislative committee meetings. Get the ICE folks doing what they should do, encouraging states to enforce our laws and assisting and carrying out their duties with the states.

Get more State Dept. people issuing and monitoring visas.

Simply put, the government should be doing its job.

My question is what do you mean by the government should be doing its job?

 

[Annie]

Well on the ID thing we're in agreement. It shocks me how quickly people are to give up their rights.

I didn't assume anything about your stand on immigration/amnesty, I said, "...if you mean..."

My point is that we don't need more laws or studies of illegals or any other legislative committee meetings. Get the ICE folks doing what they should do, encouraging states to enforce our laws and assisting and carrying out their duties with the states.

Get more State Dept. people issuing and monitoring visas.

Simply put, the government should be doing its job.

My question is what do you mean by the government should be doing its job?

Controlling borders.

Dealing with illegals that are arrested by local police. Encouraging the removal of illegals that commit crimes from our country, (note: This isn't calling for the police to look for illegals or stop them for racial reasons). However, anyone that is illegal and commits a crime, should face deportation.

Create realistic quotas on immigrants allowed, they are set way too low now, with too difficult requirements-often at odds with what skills are needed in this country. Issue visas quickly after vetting. Do a much better job of vetting.

Monitor visas, especially student visas.

 

[Modbert]

Well on the ID thing we're in agreement. It shocks me how quickly people are to give up their rights.

I didn't assume anything about your stand on immigration/amnesty, I said, "...if you mean..."

My point is that we don't need more laws or studies of illegals or any other legislative committee meetings. Get the ICE folks doing what they should do, encouraging states to enforce our laws and assisting and carrying out their duties with the states.

Get more State Dept. people issuing and monitoring visas.

Simply put, the government should be doing its job.

Oh alright, I misunderstood then. Me culpa.

I agree that we should encourage ICE and the State Dept. to do more, give them more funding but make sure that funding is well spent.

I have no problem enforcing our immigration laws, I do think illegal immigration if ignored does set the precedent that legal immigration does not matter. It is good however that we agree that the Visa system and such things related to that should be fixed. Much of the illegal immigration problem is due to that.

Like I said, a comprehensive list of what should be done in terms of Immigration.

1.) Reform the Visa and Immigration system we have now. What you mentioned in your last post are good examples.

2.) Make it illegal for employers to have illegal immigrants and fine them for doing so.

3.) Have ICE continue to do their job, given what funding is needed.

4.) End the War on Drugs or at the very least legalize Marijuana. A long way in crippling these Drug Cartels who illegally come into the U.S is to take away their main source of money. Due to drugs like Marijuana being illegal, they essentially are allowed to charge high prices for their product, giving them even more profit. This goes for a number of other drugs as well.

My only problem with laws pertaining to Immigration is when we start racially profiling and or violating people's civil liberties. That's a step too far.

 

[ReAmericaNow]

Well on the ID thing we're in agreement. It shocks me how quickly people are to give up their rights.

I didn't assume anything about your stand on immigration/amnesty, I said, "...if you mean..."

My point is that we don't need more laws or studies of illegals or any other legislative committee meetings. Get the ICE folks doing what they should do, encouraging states to enforce our laws and assisting and carrying out their duties with the states.

Get more State Dept. people issuing and monitoring visas.

Simply put, the government should be doing its job.

My question is what do you mean by the government should be doing its job?

Controlling borders.

Dealing with illegals that are arrested by local police. Encouraging the removal of illegals that commit crimes from our country, (note: This isn't calling for the police to look for illegals or stop them for racial reasons). However, anyone that is illegal and commits a crime, should face deportation.

Create realistic quotas on immigrants allowed, they are set way too low now, with too difficult requirements-often at odds with what skills are needed in this country. Issue visas quickly after vetting. Do a much better job of vetting.

Monitor visas, especially student visas.

Well I totally agree, especially that there needs to be more immigrants allowed in the country. I also think that a system needs to be set up that allows those who are here illegally to become here legally. If for no other reason then to tax their salary, or even have a list of those who are here.

As for the visa part, the question arises on how much monitoring are you willing to commit resources to and at what point are liberties encroached. But if you are looking for terrorist, I personally am more weary of Tea Partiers (Austin Texas IRS) than Al Qaeda

 

[Reasoning]

It is time for this country to create an identification card for every legal citizen and require everyone to have that ID in their possession. In the technological age we are in we have no secrets. Our age, phone numbers, addresses, even information about our houses (how many faucets we have) is available on the internet. So the argument about privacy is mute. There is no privacy anymore. There are many benefits of a national ID card and one would be illegal’s would not have any. Legal aliens would have a different ID and have an expiration date.

We have in America roadblocks by the police to check for seatbelts, drunk driving or other reasons. Why then is it wrong to set roadblocks and check ID’s?

When you read 1984 you must have wet your pants in excitement...

 

[KissMy]

A new National ID system is closer than you think. You will likely not be able to bank, electronically trade, healthcare, Social Security, corporate or government job & benifits, credit / debit card transact or vote without it. Those without it will have to work for or barter with currencies like gold. It will create two levels of citizens.

RFID tattoos for tracking Somark Innovations successfully tested an "RFID tattoo" on cows and rats? Yes indeed, tattoo, not the ol' RFID chip found in passports, dogs, and Dutch VIP clubbers. Somark's system uses an array of needles to inject a passive RFID ink which can be read through the hair on your choice of beast. The ink can be either invisible or colored but Somark is keeping mum as to its exact contents. They only say that it doesn't contain any metals and is 100% bio-compatible and chemically inert. The tattoo can be applied in 5 to 10 seconds with no shaving involved and can be read from up to 4 feet away -- the bigger the tattoo, the more information stored. Best of it all, it's apparently safe for humans to ingest allowing the FDA to track back Mad Cow Disease, e-coli outbreaks, and Soylent Green. Don't worry, they can't track you just as long as you chew your food like mama taught. However, with "military personnel" listed as Somark's "secondary target market," well, it's just a matter of time before we're all cattle now isn't it.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

I see no harm in ID for every Citizen.

What's the big deal?

We already have an ID system it's called the state drivers license

 

[bigrebnc1775]

The system is already in place, it is called the The Real ID Act and by 2013 all states will either comply or lose federal highway funding. Seventeen states already do. It's simple, if you have a state ID it is automatically cross referenced into the national database and brings up both a picture and a digital fingerprint to positively ID you. No, it doesn't apply to JUST DL, meaning any state ID including those for non citizens if a state chooses to issue those. Contrary to Bert's worries, the Real ID Act will eliminate the possibility of fraud unless someone is sophisticated enough to hack into the database and change pictures and fingerprints in the system.

Not to mention, people might be fraudulent is a horrible excuse for not enacting something.

Because we all know that isn't possible.

The Real ID is just another step to control over people. It has nothing to do with safety or anything such as that. At this point, a officer can walk up to you on any given street corner and by law you are required to identify yourself. He can also frisk you beforehand as to make sure you are not armed and that is all legal.

To paraphrase George Carlin, "Even if you read the papers half as good as possible, you'll see the list of our rights get shorter year by year."

scarey stuff........ it's scarey that I agree with you.

 

[ConHog]

The system is already in place, it is called the The Real ID Act and by 2013 all states will either comply or lose federal highway funding. Seventeen states already do. It's simple, if you have a state ID it is automatically cross referenced into the national database and brings up both a picture and a digital fingerprint to positively ID you. No, it doesn't apply to JUST DL, meaning any state ID including those for non citizens if a state chooses to issue those. Contrary to Bert's worries, the Real ID Act will eliminate the possibility of fraud unless someone is sophisticated enough to hack into the database and change pictures and fingerprints in the system.

Not to mention, people might be fraudulent is a horrible excuse for not enacting something.

Because we all know that isn't possible.

The Real ID is just another step to control over people. It has nothing to do with safety or anything such as that. At this point, a officer can walk up to you on any given street corner and by law you are required to identify yourself. He can also frisk you beforehand as to make sure you are not armed and that is all legal.

To paraphrase George Carlin, "Even if you read the papers half as good as possible, you'll see the list of our rights get shorter year by year."

scarey stuff........ it's scarey that I agree with you.

Except that as explained Bert is full of shit. An officer can not insist that you "show him your papers" nor can he frisk you for no reason. Bert is just flat lying about that.

 

[zzzz]

It is time for this country to create an identification card for every legal citizen and require everyone to have that ID in their possession. In the technological age we are in we have no secrets. Our age, phone numbers, addresses, even information about our houses (how many faucets we have) is available on the internet. So the argument about privacy is mute. There is no privacy anymore. There are many benefits of a national ID card and one would be illegal’s would not have any. Legal aliens would have a different ID and have an expiration date.

We have in America roadblocks by the police to check for seatbelts, drunk driving or other reasons. Why then is it wrong to set roadblocks and check ID’s?

Wrong, we have checkpoints for sobriety, we do not have checkpoints for seat belts and other such things. Those would be blatantly unconstitutional. Well, except in a limited instance if a felony has occurred in the immediate area, in which case roadblocks can be temporarily established.

What is the legal basis for sobriety checkpoints? Public safety. The Supreme Court held sobriety roadblocks are constitutional in Michigan State Police v. Sitz, 496 U.S. 444. Even though roadblocks are "seizures" under the constitution and infringe on the Fourth Amendment the needs of the public outweigh that right. The court has also ruled that roadblocks to look for illegal aliens are constitutional in Martinez-Fuerte, 428 U. S. 558. Even though random stops are not legal these cases form the foundation for roadblocks to check on ID’s. The public safety issue is to find illegal aliens, wanted criminals and other violations of the law. A drivers license is only issued to drivers. An ID would be issued to everyone, let’s say starting at age 5 when children start kindergarten. All students would be required to have ID’s too. Having fingerprints, iris scan and other data on the card would also be a help in combating forgery.

 

[zzzz]

As much as it may pain me to say it, I agree with Modbert and ACLU on this:

5 Problems with National ID Cards | American Civil Liberties Union

Let's examine those 5 reasons.

1. A national ID card system would not solve the problem that is inspiring it.

Of course not, no single thing is going to solve the issues of immigration or terrorism. But every tool helps.

2. An ID card system will lead to a slippery slope of surveillance and monitoring of citizens.



The average citizen would shocked and appalled at just how monitored they are, anyone realize that the financial bill just passed means the USG can now dig through your bank accounts sans warrant?

3. A national ID card system would require creation of a database of all Americans

Several such databases already exist.

4. ID cards would function as "internal passports" that monitor citizens' movements

Again, most Americans already carry a DL, and if not a DL, they certainly use an ATM card or credit card, this would not lead to any more ability by the USG to track your movements than they already have. Do you carry a cell phone? Then I promise someone within the USG could pinpoint your location within 3 feet at any given time within 10 minutes of the request to do so.

5. ID cards would foster new forms of discrimination and harassment

Contrary to what some lib tards would have us believe , keeping non citizens out of our country is not discrimination. It is sound policy. One shared by every civilized nation in the world.

The government is already monitoring everyone. It’s just in the background and you don't realize it! A national ID card would replace the driver license as a form of Identification and hopefully remove the social security number from Identification. It seems like everybody wants your SSN these days. A national ID card and number, separate from the SSN could prevent some of this identity theft and fraud. All I hear is “Government invasion of privacy.” Wake up! It has already happened and 911 and all the legislation after that has accelerated the invasion. A national ID card will not do anything to a person’s privacy than what is already happening.

 

[Montrovant]

It is time for this country to create an identification card for every legal citizen and require everyone to have that ID in their possession. In the technological age we are in we have no secrets. Our age, phone numbers, addresses, even information about our houses (how many faucets we have) is available on the internet. So the argument about privacy is mute. There is no privacy anymore. There are many benefits of a national ID card and one would be illegal’s would not have any. Legal aliens would have a different ID and have an expiration date.

We have in America roadblocks by the police to check for seatbelts, drunk driving or other reasons. Why then is it wrong to set roadblocks and check ID’s?

Wrong, we have checkpoints for sobriety, we do not have checkpoints for seat belts and other such things. Those would be blatantly unconstitutional. Well, except in a limited instance if a felony has occurred in the immediate area, in which case roadblocks can be temporarily established.

What is the legal basis for sobriety checkpoints? Public safety. The Supreme Court held sobriety roadblocks are constitutional in Michigan State Police v. Sitz, 496 U.S. 444. Even though roadblocks are "seizures" under the constitution and infringe on the Fourth Amendment the needs of the public outweigh that right. The court has also ruled that roadblocks to look for illegal aliens are constitutional in Martinez-Fuerte, 428 U. S. 558. Even though random stops are not legal these cases form the foundation for roadblocks to check on ID’s. The public safety issue is to find illegal aliens, wanted criminals and other violations of the law. A drivers license is only issued to drivers. An ID would be issued to everyone, let’s say starting at age 5 when children start kindergarten. All students would be required to have ID’s too. Having fingerprints, iris scan and other data on the card would also be a help in combating forgery.

5 year-olds having to carry ID? That's either funny or scary, I haven't decided (which coincides with me not having yet decided if you are simply a troll).

 

[ConHog]

Wrong, we have checkpoints for sobriety, we do not have checkpoints for seat belts and other such things. Those would be blatantly unconstitutional. Well, except in a limited instance if a felony has occurred in the immediate area, in which case roadblocks can be temporarily established.

What is the legal basis for sobriety checkpoints? Public safety. The Supreme Court held sobriety roadblocks are constitutional in Michigan State Police v. Sitz, 496 U.S. 444. Even though roadblocks are "seizures" under the constitution and infringe on the Fourth Amendment the needs of the public outweigh that right. The court has also ruled that roadblocks to look for illegal aliens are constitutional in Martinez-Fuerte, 428 U. S. 558. Even though random stops are not legal these cases form the foundation for roadblocks to check on ID’s. The public safety issue is to find illegal aliens, wanted criminals and other violations of the law. A drivers license is only issued to drivers. An ID would be issued to everyone, let’s say starting at age 5 when children start kindergarten. All students would be required to have ID’s too. Having fingerprints, iris scan and other data on the card would also be a help in combating forgery.

5 year-olds having to carry ID? That's either funny or scary, I haven't decided (which coincides with me not having yet decided if you are simply a troll).

I think at this point we can safely assume that 5 y/o children are not a danger to our national security and forgo mandating that they have ID on them at all times.

 

[zzzz]

What is the legal basis for sobriety checkpoints? Public safety. The Supreme Court held sobriety roadblocks are constitutional in Michigan State Police v. Sitz, 496 U.S. 444. Even though roadblocks are "seizures" under the constitution and infringe on the Fourth Amendment the needs of the public outweigh that right. The court has also ruled that roadblocks to look for illegal aliens are constitutional in Martinez-Fuerte, 428 U. S. 558. Even though random stops are not legal these cases form the foundation for roadblocks to check on ID’s. The public safety issue is to find illegal aliens, wanted criminals and other violations of the law. A drivers license is only issued to drivers. An ID would be issued to everyone, let’s say starting at age 5 when children start kindergarten. All students would be required to have ID’s too. Having fingerprints, iris scan and other data on the card would also be a help in combating forgery.

5 year-olds having to carry ID? That's either funny or scary, I haven't decided (which coincides with me not having yet decided if you are simply a troll).

I think at this point we can safely assume that 5 y/o children are not a danger to our national security and forgo mandating that they have ID on them at all times.

Yeah, 5 year olds are not a threat but an ID will be a form of protection or identification in case of emergency. A national ID is not just about threats or national security but in individual protection too.

 

[ConHog]

5 year-olds having to carry ID? That's either funny or scary, I haven't decided (which coincides with me not having yet decided if you are simply a troll).

I think at this point we can safely assume that 5 y/o children are not a danger to our national security and forgo mandating that they have ID on them at all times.

Yeah, 5 year olds are not a threat but an ID will be a form of protection or identification in case of emergency. A national ID is not just about threats or national security but in individual protection too.

Eh, my children both have barcodes in case of emergency, they're good.

 

[Douger]

Pretty soon they'll be taking roadside blood and hair follicle samples.
murkins won't care. They're murkin !

 

[topspin]

Ghestspo much?
Vere are your paperz!!!

 

[ConHog]

Ghestspo much?
Vere are your paperz!!!

How goes the MBAing today?

 

[topspin]

Ghestspo much?
Vere are your paperz!!!

How goes the MBAing today?

very good I'm up $10,000 so far