Thugs...and What To Do With 'Em

[PoliticalChic]

Gun control? Don't be ridiculous. Since I've been 22 years old, I haven't NOT owned a gun. When I was married, we had a small arsenal in the house.

If someone is interested in guns, gun history, and likes to collect them for their value, fine. I don't agree with what I perceive to be fear-mongering. People with an irrational fear government officials are going to go knocking on the doors of over 300 million people and tell them to hand them over.

Protecting yourself is fine. I've treated many gunshot wounds in the last 16 years. Everything from a .22, to shotgun blasts, to .30-06. If you've never seen one, you would be absolutely shocked at what a firearm can do to someone, when it lands in the wrong hands.

Based on your statement that you owned " a small arsenal," I'll do my best to stay on your good side....

...and, clearly, you have more expertise with guns, as I reside in the paradigmatic 'nanny state,' so to speak....


But all of that avoids the questions that I asked.

I'm going to summarize the information as follows: you have experience with guns, but resist the idea that all other citizens are entitled to the same right.
Further, that if they were give said right (to have and/or carrry) the streets would approximate a wild west venue....

...nor have you nor will you read Lott's data.

Right?

 

[mskafka]

After 32 years of law enforcement, Chic, I can promise you that he knows a thing or two about guns and gun safety. People go off their medications and rockers everyday. People with no criminal history. He's spent hours and hours reading textbooks about bullet trajectory, he's seen and probably taken pictures of gunshot victims that would make the average citizen weak in the knees.

I applaud that you stand up for what you believe, and you do it well. Cops are pretty objective about the whole thing. To them, it's not about politics.

 

[Sarah G]

It feels as if I've stepped into an alternate universe. When did America regress back to the time of Bonanza? Watch out, folks. Jesse James is coming to rob your subways.

I don't believe Jesse James would even punch a woman like that.

 

[mskafka]

Gun control? Don't be ridiculous. Since I've been 22 years old, I haven't NOT owned a gun. When I was married, we had a small arsenal in the house.

If someone is interested in guns, gun history, and likes to collect them for their value, fine. I don't agree with what I perceive to be fear-mongering. People with an irrational fear government officials are going to go knocking on the doors of over 300 million people and tell them to hand them over.

Protecting yourself is fine. I've treated many gunshot wounds in the last 16 years. Everything from a .22, to shotgun blasts, to .30-06. If you've never seen one, you would be absolutely shocked at what a firearm can do to someone, when it lands in the wrong hands.

Based on your statement that you owned " a small arsenal," I'll do my best to stay on your good side....

...and, clearly, you have more expertise with guns, as I reside in the paradigmatic 'nanny state,' so to speak....


But all of that avoids the questions that I asked.

I'm going to summarize the information as follows: you have experience with guns, but resist the idea that all other citizens are entitled to the same right.
Further, that if they were give said right (to have and/or carrry) the streets would approximate a wild west venue....

...nor have you nor will you read Lott's data.

Right?

I USED to own a small arsenal. It was only fair that he keep most of the guns in the divorce, because he is the avid hunter. So don't be silly. I only shoot at targets or if someone were to break into my house.

In Tennessee, many of us are exposed to guns at a young age. I shot my first gun when I was 10. We had a "hunter safety" class in grade school that was required by TWRA. It's basically part of the culture here. Nashville is ranked in the top 20 most dangerous cities in the US, and Memphis is in the top 10. My fiance is originally from Memphis. He's a pharmacist and was robbed three times in 9 years, in Memphis-twice with a gun and once with a knife. When we go home to visit, we ALWAYS pack heat. Some parts of it are frightening even during daylight hours.

Is that related to guns? Who knows. I would hazard a guess that many of them are from the black market. But I digress.

I'll look for the book on the Nook. I was just trying to understand where someone got the 4 million number, or if it's just an estimate. It seemed like a huge project.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Why do you need to ask? Is there some indication that the Bronx D.A. is not going to prosecute? We need to do what we always do in a Constitutional government.

Why do you belive that the only remediation is to wait until the act...such as the one which I believed I had sufficiently outlined in the OP...took place?

Surely, you aren't proposing that women should walk around with guns at the ready and shoot any larger male who even looks as though he might be a threat?

And, yes, I am calling you Surely . . . .

Ms. Surely to you!

Georgie....I thought we agreed last night to put those awful singers to death! Now you wanna let this thug off???


I'm suggesting that if weaker folks were possibly armed, and able to protect themselves, perhaps this beast might have decided that a parking spot furhter down the block looked more inviting.


"...who even looks as though he might be a threat."
Are we back to Surely???

 

[PoliticalChic]

Gun control? Don't be ridiculous. Since I've been 22 years old, I haven't NOT owned a gun. When I was married, we had a small arsenal in the house.

If someone is interested in guns, gun history, and likes to collect them for their value, fine. I don't agree with what I perceive to be fear-mongering. People with an irrational fear government officials are going to go knocking on the doors of over 300 million people and tell them to hand them over.

Protecting yourself is fine. I've treated many gunshot wounds in the last 16 years. Everything from a .22, to shotgun blasts, to .30-06. If you've never seen one, you would be absolutely shocked at what a firearm can do to someone, when it lands in the wrong hands.

Based on your statement that you owned " a small arsenal," I'll do my best to stay on your good side....

...and, clearly, you have more expertise with guns, as I reside in the paradigmatic 'nanny state,' so to speak....


But all of that avoids the questions that I asked.

I'm going to summarize the information as follows: you have experience with guns, but resist the idea that all other citizens are entitled to the same right.
Further, that if they were give said right (to have and/or carrry) the streets would approximate a wild west venue....

...nor have you nor will you read Lott's data.

Right?

I USED to own a small arsenal. It was only fair that he keep most of the guns in the divorce, because he is the avid hunter. So don't be silly. I only shoot at targets or if someone were to break into my house.

In Tennessee, many of us are exposed to guns at a young age. I shot my first gun when I was 10. We had a "hunter safety" class in grade school that was required by TWRA. It's basically part of the culture here. Nashville is ranked in the top 20 most dangerous cities in the US, and Memphis is in the top 10. My fiance is originally from Memphis. He's a pharmacist and was robbed three times in 9 years, in Memphis-twice with a gun and once with a knife. When we go home to visit, we ALWAYS pack heat. Some parts of it are frightening even during daylight hours.

Is that related to guns? Who knows. I would hazard a guess that many of them are from the black market. But I digress.

I'll look for the book on the Nook. I was just trying to understand where someone got the 4 million number, or if it's just an estimate. It seemed like a huge project.

Ohhhh.....so you no longer have 'a small arsenal"??

Well....in that case....



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4trn2lJxl00]Wizard of Oz- Put em up - YouTube[/ame]

 

[mskafka]

Based on your statement that you owned " a small arsenal," I'll do my best to stay on your good side....

...and, clearly, you have more expertise with guns, as I reside in the paradigmatic 'nanny state,' so to speak....


But all of that avoids the questions that I asked.

I'm going to summarize the information as follows: you have experience with guns, but resist the idea that all other citizens are entitled to the same right.
Further, that if they were give said right (to have and/or carrry) the streets would approximate a wild west venue....

...nor have you nor will you read Lott's data.

Right?

I USED to own a small arsenal. It was only fair that he keep most of the guns in the divorce, because he is the avid hunter. So don't be silly. I only shoot at targets or if someone were to break into my house.

In Tennessee, many of us are exposed to guns at a young age. I shot my first gun when I was 10. We had a "hunter safety" class in grade school that was required by TWRA. It's basically part of the culture here. Nashville is ranked in the top 20 most dangerous cities in the US, and Memphis is in the top 10. My fiance is originally from Memphis. He's a pharmacist and was robbed three times in 9 years, in Memphis-twice with a gun and once with a knife. When we go home to visit, we ALWAYS pack heat. Some parts of it are frightening even during daylight hours.

Is that related to guns? Who knows. I would hazard a guess that many of them are from the black market. But I digress.

I'll look for the book on the Nook. I was just trying to understand where someone got the 4 million number, or if it's just an estimate. It seemed like a huge project.

Ohhhh.....so you no longer have 'a small arsenal"??

Well....in that case....



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4trn2lJxl00]Wizard of Oz- Put em up - YouTube[/ame]

I only own a 9mm now. One would be crazy to live in the Southeast and NOT own a gun. People down here love their guns and alcohol. It's rough down here, in some places. We talk about moving, often, for that reason.

Now I sound like a fear-monger.

I don't want to sound like I have something against people protecting themselves. I do agree with the background checks, but even that doesn't always catch a criminal. They may have no history whatsoever, but buy the gun with the intent of mowing down dozens of people in a shopping mall. I need to find some statistics on gun crime, and I'll get back to you. One had better know the numbers when they're communicating with Chic.

 

[Wry Catcher]

1. "That is one of the dumbest remarks I've read..."
In the area of dumb remarks, I must bow to your experience...

2. "Criminal attacks stopped by guns this year: 4,462,213 "
The World Wide Web Gun Defense Clock


3. "if the gun nuts have their way..."
(See what I mean about your experience in making dumb remarks?)

"Washington DC's low murder rate of 80.6 per 100,000 is due to strict gun control, and Arlington, VA's high murder rate of 1.6 per 100,000 is due to the lack of gun control. "
http://attrition.org/technical/firearms/40_gun_control.html

My experience is based on 32 years of law enforcement. You seem to be a dilettante in terms of life experience. Gun nuts is an accurate description of the subset of gun owners. Most everyone I know owns firearms, none of them parade around with an unloaded & openly carried weapon. A very, very stupid activity.

There are likely more causes than one for the murder rate in The District; offering only one is a sign of a partisan hack.

1. Sorry, Wry....but I've read your posts, and based on same "My experience is based on 32 years of law enforcement" is hardly convincing of anything.

Statistics, to which I give more weight than your self aggrandizing back-patting, prove you woefully wrong.


2. "You seem to be a dilettante in terms of life experience..."
I may not have accumulated your years...wasn't your high school field trip the Gold Rush?...but I bow to none in ability to analyze data.

3. [Lott] asked: “Does allowing people to own or carry guns deter violent crime, or does it simply cause more citizens to harm each other?”

Lott’s objective conclusion was controversial in 1998, less so today.

Based upon broad data sources and examination of FBI annual crime figures for all 3,054 American counties spanning sixteen years, he found that waiting periods, gun buybacks and background checks “yield virtually no benefits in crime reduction.” In contrast, Lott observed that “of all the methods studied so far by economists, the carrying of concealed handguns appears to be the most cost-effective method for reducing crime.”

4. Sadly, you force me to show how little you have actually learned in a lifetime...
...the CDC actually studied all of the various laws and programs in the nation designed by well meaning folks (guess which was probably their political persuasion?) and found none to be effective...

Here:
"Evidence was insufficient to determine the effectiveness of any of these laws for the following reasons.
In summary, the Task Force found insufficient evidence to determine the effectiveness of any of the firearms laws reviewed for preventing violence."

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/pdf/rr/rr5214.pdf


5. Now, Wry, you have evinced an inability to reflect on new data an to adapt to new viewpoints...which explains why your "32 years of law enforcement" has been less than educational...so I hardly expect any change in you based on this post.

It is time, I believe, for you to don those horrid white orthopedic walking shoes, and matching belt, and waddle off, ‘else you may miss the ‘Early Bird Special’!

Now, PC, I adapt quite well to the new and reasonable. I also react to partisan hacks and as Mark Twain so well expressed to, "liars, damn liars and statistics". Data must be evaluated not simply ingested, digested and shit out.

Have you ever encountered a citizen in his PJ's holding a deer rifle loaded & chambered with his finger in the guard, waving the rifle around explaining how he heard a noise? His wife called 911 saying her husband is outside and he took his gun. If he had not been in PJ's he might very well have been shot and not by an intruder. Or killed a neighbor sleeping across the street.

 

[George Costanza]

Why do you belive that the only remediation is to wait until the act...such as the one which I believed I had sufficiently outlined in the OP...took place?

Surely, you aren't proposing that women should walk around with guns at the ready and shoot any larger male who even looks as though he might be a threat?

And, yes, I am calling you Surely . . . .

Ms. Surely to you!

Georgie....I thought we agreed last night to put those awful singers to death! Now you wanna let this thug off???


I'm suggesting that if weaker folks were possibly armed, and able to protect themselves, perhaps this beast might have decided that a parking spot furhter down the block looked more inviting.


"...who even looks as though he might be a threat."
Are we back to Surely???

Ah, but that was not the IMPLICATION of what you said. I agree with you to a certain extent on your revised statement - but I'm sure you are not proposing that women should go around shooting men on the street, merely because they want to prevent a mugging that is about to happen only in their own imaginations.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Early intervention. The genesis of this story began years before and the solution is not vigilante justice.

Self-defense and vigilante justice are not the same thing.

An untrained or scared person discharging a firearm in the direction of a threat on a city street isn't a solution, it's a problem.

CCW permit holders have training.
Policemen are scared wehn they have to shoot someone.
Your "point" here thusly fades.

The Sheriff is a fool.

The sheriff is directly in touch with reality. You should try it sometime.

 

[M14 Shooter]

"Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force."

That is one of the dumbest remarks I've read (it may even top some of those by CrusaderFrank and Willow Tree).

We have laws and when reason doesn't work incarceration is the answer.

Pssst.... The law is "force". The point is sound.

 

[Wry Catcher]

"Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force."

That is one of the dumbest remarks I've read (it may even top some of those by CrusaderFrank and Willow Tree).

We have laws and when reason doesn't work incarceration is the answer.

Pssst.... The law is "force". The point is sound.

Of course it is. I simply made a distinction based on the context of PC's remarks, and pointed out that in my response to her. In context, shooting and possibly killing someone committing an assault/battery is not within the law. Reasonable force is the rule. My example from Camus' Novel, The Stranger was illustrative.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Surely, you aren't proposing that women should walk around with guns at the ready and shoot any larger male who even looks as though he might be a threat?

And, yes, I am calling you Surely . . . .

Ms. Surely to you!

Georgie....I thought we agreed last night to put those awful singers to death! Now you wanna let this thug off???


I'm suggesting that if weaker folks were possibly armed, and able to protect themselves, perhaps this beast might have decided that a parking spot furhter down the block looked more inviting.


"...who even looks as though he might be a threat."
Are we back to Surely???

Ah, but that was not the IMPLICATION of what you said. I agree with you to a certain extent on your revised statement - but I'm sure you are not proposing that women should go around shooting men on the street, merely because they want to prevent a mugging that is about to happen only in their own imaginations.

"...but I'm sure you are not proposing...'
Interesting choice of words...you silver-tongued devil.


"...merely because they want to prevent a mugging ... imaginations"

Is that the way you really read the OP???

No?

Well then, as they asked the crook who pick-pocketed the midget...'how could you stoop so low?'

You know very well that introducing 'imagination' into the equation changes the entire calculation. In that case, my reponse would be "I can’t answer you today. The voices told me to stay home and clean the guns."

Of course the actual argument revolves (pun suggested) around ending a mugging.
There is a legal basis for that: “necessitas non habet legem”- necessity knows no law.

 

[M14 Shooter]

"Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force."

That is one of the dumbest remarks I've read (it may even top some of those by CrusaderFrank and Willow Tree).

We have laws and when reason doesn't work incarceration is the answer.

Pssst.... The law is "force". The point is sound.

Of course it is.

Then you must agree that the premise - force or reason - is sound.

I simply made a distinction based on the context of PC's remarks, and pointed out that in my response to her. In context, shooting and possibly killing someone committing an assault/battery is not within the law.

In context -- that is, acting in one own self-defense - shooting/beating someone is certainly within the law.

 

[Cecilie1200]

It feels as if I've stepped into an alternate universe. When did America regress back to the time of Bonanza? Watch out, folks. Jesse James is coming to rob your subways.

Idiot. When did you think humanity ever LEFT that time? Did you really think human nature had changed, or that it ever will?

 

[LAfrique]

1. A petite young Bronx woman was pummeled into a coma by a thug who was furious that she was holding a parking space in the East Village, The Post has learned.

2. [Oscar] Fuller -- whose prior busts include weapons possession and felony assault -- jumped out and started screaming at Rosas when she claimed she was holding the space, police sources said.

3. Fuller then "punched [her] in the face with so much force that the woman flew off her feet," according to court papers.

4. A police source added, "The victim suffered permanent brain damage. It's uncertain whether or not she will survive her injuries."
"Parking rage" thug Oscar Fuller puts Bronx woman, Lana Rosas in a coma - NYPOST.com

5. It was the hardest, fastest punch I've ever seen, Katherine Reilly told the Manhattan jury as she described Fuller’s strike against the 4-foot-11 Rosas, who was knocked into a coma. It sounded to me like a watermelon splitting open, the 27-year-old teacher said of the impact of Rosas head crashing against the pavement.
Woman punched in East Village parking dispute*doesn


And, in a related story...

6. (Reuters) - A South Carolina sheriff who called for women to carry guns to defend themselves against assaults said on Tuesday he has received a positive response to his advice.
"I don't want you to go for the Mace. I want you to go for the concealed weapons permit," the sheriff said, according to a video of his remarks.

"They got one called 'The Judge' that shoots a .45 or a .410 shell," he said. "You ain't gotta be accurate. You just gotta get close."
Sheriff tells women to get guns to ward off attacks | Reuters

I wonder why the world's most notorious thugs - NATO Gatlin boys - are not first on your list: Bandit NATO boys are the worst terrorists on Planet Earth. Just wondering.


And what do we do with the likes of the NATO thugs? Rope them and hang them on trees to dry!

 

[High_Gravity]

1. A petite young Bronx woman was pummeled into a coma by a thug who was furious that she was holding a parking space in the East Village, The Post has learned.

2. [Oscar] Fuller -- whose prior busts include weapons possession and felony assault -- jumped out and started screaming at Rosas when she claimed she was holding the space, police sources said.

3. Fuller then "punched [her] in the face with so much force that the woman flew off her feet," according to court papers.

4. A police source added, "The victim suffered permanent brain damage. It's uncertain whether or not she will survive her injuries."
"Parking rage" thug Oscar Fuller puts Bronx woman, Lana Rosas in a coma - NYPOST.com

5. It was the hardest, fastest punch I've ever seen, Katherine Reilly told the Manhattan jury as she described Fuller’s strike against the 4-foot-11 Rosas, who was knocked into a coma. It sounded to me like a watermelon splitting open, the 27-year-old teacher said of the impact of Rosas head crashing against the pavement.
Woman punched in East Village parking dispute*doesn


And, in a related story...

6. (Reuters) - A South Carolina sheriff who called for women to carry guns to defend themselves against assaults said on Tuesday he has received a positive response to his advice.
"I don't want you to go for the Mace. I want you to go for the concealed weapons permit," the sheriff said, according to a video of his remarks.

"They got one called 'The Judge' that shoots a .45 or a .410 shell," he said. "You ain't gotta be accurate. You just gotta get close."
Sheriff tells women to get guns to ward off attacks | Reuters

I wonder why the world's most notorious thugs - NATO Gatlin boys - are not first on your list: Bandit NATO boys are the worst terrorists on Planet Earth. Just wondering.

 

[PoliticalChic]

1. A petite young Bronx woman was pummeled into a coma by a thug who was furious that she was holding a parking space in the East Village, The Post has learned.

2. [Oscar] Fuller -- whose prior busts include weapons possession and felony assault -- jumped out and started screaming at Rosas when she claimed she was holding the space, police sources said.

3. Fuller then "punched [her] in the face with so much force that the woman flew off her feet," according to court papers.

4. A police source added, "The victim suffered permanent brain damage. It's uncertain whether or not she will survive her injuries."
"Parking rage" thug Oscar Fuller puts Bronx woman, Lana Rosas in a coma - NYPOST.com

5. It was the hardest, fastest punch I've ever seen, Katherine Reilly told the Manhattan jury as she described Fuller’s strike against the 4-foot-11 Rosas, who was knocked into a coma. It sounded to me like a watermelon splitting open, the 27-year-old teacher said of the impact of Rosas head crashing against the pavement.
Woman punched in East Village parking dispute*doesn


And, in a related story...

6. (Reuters) - A South Carolina sheriff who called for women to carry guns to defend themselves against assaults said on Tuesday he has received a positive response to his advice.
"I don't want you to go for the Mace. I want you to go for the concealed weapons permit," the sheriff said, according to a video of his remarks.

"They got one called 'The Judge' that shoots a .45 or a .410 shell," he said. "You ain't gotta be accurate. You just gotta get close."
Sheriff tells women to get guns to ward off attacks | Reuters

I wonder why the world's most notorious thugs - NATO Gatlin boys - are not first on your list: Bandit NATO boys are the worst terrorists on Planet Earth. Just wondering.

Keep wondering.

I'll pick my subject. You go right ahead and do the same.

 

[whitehall]

Early intervention. The genesis of this story began years before and the solution is not vigilante justice. An untrained or scared person discharging a firearm in the direction of a threat on a city street isn't a solution, it's a problem. The Sheriff is a fool.

If you legally carried a gun and could stop a deadly assault by shooting the perp why not do it? You might face the wrath of left wing sissies who depend on government for their existance but that's a given. Facing an army of left wing litigators is another issue. It takes courage to do the right thing sometimes.

 

[M14 Shooter]

It feels as if I've stepped into an alternate universe. When did America regress back to the time of Bonanza? Watch out, folks. Jesse James is coming to rob your subways.

Idiot. When did you think humanity ever LEFT that time? Did you really think human nature had changed, or that it ever will?

Indeed. Cut power to NYC for a month and watch the 'regression' bloom.