Those who refuse to learn from History...

[José]

This thread (Cuban Missile "Crisis" Replay) proved beyond any reasonable doubt that America doesn't appreciate to have her borders militarily surrounded by foreign alliances. You could add to the example presented there, the invasion of Grenada, the financing and political support of military coups, the proxy wars in Central America, etc...

Now I'm gonna prove that China doesn't like to see international troops close to the chinese border either.

In 1950, the chinese foreign minister, Zhou Enlai, spent at least 4 months issuing strongly worded warnings to the international community:

"China is prepared to intervene in Korea
to safeguard its national security."

"China will not admit the presence of american
troops on the korean side of the Yalu River."

These two gentlemen dismissed Zhou Enlai's warnings as nothing more than empty threats and political posturing:

"The chinese leadership is bluffing."

​

And the rest is history.

The events that led to the chinese involvement in the Korean War bear a strinking resemblance to those that led to the War in Ukraine if you ignore the fact that the chinese involvement was an accelerated version because there was a hot war going on.

Three russian leaders spent 17 years (War in Georgia) or 31 years (War in Ukraine) warning the West that the expansion of the western military alliance towards Russia's borders would be regarded as a threat to the country's national security.

Just like the warnings of the chinese chancellor, the words of the russian leaders fell on deaf ears. One can't help but remembering the famous quote "those who refuse to learn from history"...

 

[José]

Since so many examples provided by recent international history firmly establish the fact that no nation accepts to have its borders surounded by foreign military alliances and the only difference is between the nations that can't do anything about it but whine (Togo, Cambodia, Bolivia, etc...) and those that can (America, China, Russia), inquiring minds want to know:

Why do super patriotic american clowns condemn Russia for behaving just like any other nation state do?

 

[BackAgain]

Those who refuse to learn from History...​

are condemned to get an F.

 

[alang1216]

Since so many examples provided by recent international history firmly establish the fact that no nation accepts to have its borders surounded by foreign military alliances and the only difference is between the nations that can't do anything about it but whine (Togo, Cambodia, Bolivia, etc...) and those that can (America, China, Russia), inquiring minds want to know:

Why do super patriotic american clowns condemn Russia for behaving just like any other nation state do?

The ancient Athenians had a saying, the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must. The question is whether Russia is strong or weak? I think the answer is clear.

 

[Concerned American]

Why do super patriotic american clowns condemn Russia for behaving just like any other nation state do?

Not condemning or condoning the actions of Russia or Ukraine. Not my countries, not my war. Leave me and my money out of it.

 

[konradv]

Why do super patriotic american clowns condemn Russia for behaving just like any other nation state do?

Just because Russia is acting "like any other nation state" doesn't mean we have to allow it.

 

[Concerned American]

This thread (Cuban Missile "Crisis" Replay) proved beyond any reasonable doubt that America doesn't appreciate to have her borders militarily surrounded by foreign alliances. You could add to the example presented there, the invasion of Grenada, the financing and political support of military coups, the proxy wars in Central America, etc...

Now I'm gonna prove that China doesn't like to see international troops close to the chinese border either.

In 1950, the chinese foreign minister, Zhou Enlai, spent at least 4 months issuing strongly worded warnings to the international community:

"China is prepared to intervene in Korea
to safeguard its national security."

"China will not admit the presence of american
troops on the korean side of the Yalu River."

These two gentlemen dismissed Zhou Enlai's warnings as nothing more than empty threats and political posturing:

"The chinese leadership is bluffing."

​

And the rest is history.

The events that led to the chinese involvement in the Korean War bear a strinking resemblance to those that led to the War in Ukraine if you ignore the fact that the chinese involvement was an accelerated version because there was a hot war going on.

Three russian leaders spent 17 years (War in Georgia) or 31 years (War in Ukraine) warning the West that the expansion of the western military alliance towards Russia's borders would be regarded as a threat to the country's national security.

Just like the warnings of the chinese chancellor, the words of the russian leaders fell on deaf ears. One can't help but remembering the famous quote "those who refuse to learn from history"...

Zhou En Lai repeated his action in Vietnam. Slow learners. Common thread in all three cases--democrat leadership in the US.

 

[alang1216]

Not condemning or condoning the actions of Russia or Ukraine. Not my countries, not my war. Leave me and my money out of it.

Thank you Neville Chamberlain.

 

[Votto]

Those who refuse to learn from History...​

are condemned to get an F.

And they probably suck at math as well.

 

[Concerned American]

Thank you Neville Chamberlain.

Besides your support of the long ago debunked domino theory, what national consequence is present today that wasn't there in 2014 when your buddy Obama told Putin to take Crimea? What has changed. The reason Putin wanted Crimea was to access a warm water port and to counter what he perceived as US aggression in Turkey. The current hostilities were created by that action. Donbass is the access needed to get to Crimea from Russia. You morons talk alot, but you don't have the sense God gave animal crackers. Are you a a lion, tiger or bear--OH MY.

 

[shockedcanadian]

Well by this logic Jose you are approving of Western efforts to prevent Russias success. As you suggest, "why would you expect the U.S to act differently?" I am not an expert on the issues,.Russia might have legitimate beefs, just as the Japanese did when they set forth for Pearl Harbor based on the U.S oil embargoes. We saw how such attacks backfired on Japan though.

 

[alang1216]

Besides your support of the long ago debunked domino theory, what national consequence is present today that wasn't there in 2014 when your buddy Obama told Putin to take Crimea? What has changed.

You are either delusional or just confused. Or both? I never supported the domino theory and Obama never told Putin to take Crimea. If anyone did it was more likely Trump than Obama.

The reason Putin wanted Crimea was to access a warm water port and to counter what he perceived as US aggression in Turkey. The current hostilities were created by that action. Donbass is the access needed to get to Crimea from Russia. You morons talk alot, but you don't have the sense God gave animal crackers. Are you a a lion, tiger or bear--OH MY.

Putin's perceptions may or may not be true, but they are irrelevant since they don't give him license to do what he has done.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Three russian leaders spent 17 years (War in Georgia) or 31 years (War in Ukraine) warning the West that the expansion of the western military alliance towards Russia's borders

That's crazy! Why would any of Russia's neighbors want to join NATO?
What has Russia ever done to them?

 

[Concerned American]

Obama never told Putin to take Crimea.

Didn't do anything to stop it, did he. Barack Obama: no cold war over Crimea Bbbbut, Bbbbut Trump.

they don't give him license to do what he has done.

Not my responsibility nor obligation to play the world's policeman. Where do you get off telling others how to live. Not my country--not my war. Pack your bags and run your ass over there and join the fighting if it is that important to you--let's see how committed you really are. Better yet, just send your kids or grandkids over there. Where is your indignation now?

 

[José]

Originally posted by alang1216
The ancient Athenians had a saying, the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must. The question is whether Russia is strong or weak? I think the answer is clear.

Your brutal honesty is refreshing and gratifying, alang. This is the so called realist school of international relations, aka, the law of the jungle.

There's a similar saying in Spanish that unfortunately don't have an exact equivalent in English but it's more or less like this:

Those who can, give orders and those who are smart obey them.

The problem is that, so far, nobody was able to convince Russia that they belong to the latter group.

 

[alang1216]

Didn't do anything to stop it, did he. Barack Obama: no cold war over Crimea Bbbbut, Bbbbut Trump.

There is a big difference between giving permission and not going to war. Maybe someone could explain it to you. Obama did put sanctions in place.

Not my responsibility nor obligation to play the world's policeman. Where do you get off telling others how to live. Not my country--not my war. Pack your bags and run your ass over there and join the fighting if it is that important to you--let's see how committed you really are. Better yet, just send your kids or grandkids over there. Where is your indignation now?

There should be no foreign soldiers in Ukraine, neither Russian nor American, since none were invited. Period.

 

[Concerned American]

Obama did put sanctions in place.

So did Trump and you faulted him for it. So now you are a war monger eh? So why haven't you gone down and enlisted if this is so important to you?

 

[alang1216]

So did Trump and you faulted him for it.

I did not.

So now you are a war monger eh? So why haven't you gone down and enlisted if this is so important to you?

I didn't invade Ukraine and I'm not the one supporting the invaders. I believe it is you who is the war monger. I don't want war but that ship has sailed thanks to Putin.

 

[Concerned American]

I did not.

Your post #12
If anyone did it was more likely Trump than Obama.

I didn't invade Ukraine and I'm not the one supporting the invaders.

You are calling for the US to support Ukraine (war mongering) Ukraine is NOT a US ally. Ukraine is NOT a NATO member. The US has no mutual defense treaty with Ukraine and the US is not the world's police force--that is what the UN is supposed to do and is not. The US nor any of our possessions or protectorates have been attacked. It is not our war. If you want to support Ukraine, be my guest. Leave my tax dollars and military equipment out of it.

 

[jwoodie]

The ancient Athenians had a saying, the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must. The question is whether Russia is strong or weak? I think the answer is clear.

Thanks for illustrating the difference between knowledge and understanding.