This Road is for Jews Only. Yes, There is Apartheid in Israel

[Sweet_Caroline]

What I find just totally ******* amazing is how whacked out pro-palis scream "apartheid, apartheid" until their lungs are bursting and yet, Israel is the only free and functioning democracy in the region, it is the only country that provides equal rights and protections for gays (which is why lots of gay arabs somehow find the way over the border) and other minorities, it is the only country in the region that takes in refugees from crisis areas, it gives equal voting rights to Arabs living within Eretz Israel and Arabs are in the Knesset. Hell, Arabs have actually called - from the Knesset floor - for the destruction of Eretz Yisrael, and yet, no one hauled them away in the night. People laughed at those assholes with derision, a derision they deserved, but no one hauled them away.

Eretz Yisrael is so secure in itself as an entity that is is willing to air out it's "dirty laundry" for the world to see, knowing that a free democratic process is always the better way to go. What dictators see as Israeli weakness is, in reality, a great strenght.

There is very likely some discrimination in Israel. But it is not apartheid.

And unlike the Palis, who love to sing songs about driving the "Devil" into the sea, Israelis do not sing songs about the genocide of Arabs and/or Muslims.

However, I am beginning to have regrets. I am regretting that Israel did not kick out every single one of those motherfuckers after winning the '67 war. Israel had the opportunity to empty out the entire "pali" population and set them over the border in Jordan (where well over 88-90% of them came from, anyway) and just be done with it. Had Israel done that, then we would not have all of these worthless shit storms that the world doesn't need.

There has never been a "Palestinian" King or Queen. There has never been a "Palestinian" currency. There was never a "Palestinian" army. This is all just smoke and mirrors. They are simplyAarabs, a small portion of whom lived in the holy land when Balfour happened. End of story.

Excellent.

 

[Victory67]

Apartheid in Israel? Not so much.

In the West Bank? Absolutely. The sooner Israel leaves the West Bank, the better.

 

[Kondor3]

Apartheid in Israel? Not so much. In the West Bank? Absolutely. The sooner Israel leaves the West Bank, the better.

In Israel itself, not at all.

In the West Bank, not at all - the situation does not meet the requirements for such as stipulated in the International Convention on the Suppression and Punishment of the Crime of Apartheid .

In Gaza, not at all - it's merely a matter of keeping rabid Mad Dogs in the kennel so that they cannot hurt others.

 

[Victory67]

In the West Bank, not at all - the situation does not meet the requirements for such as stipulated in the International Convention on the Suppression and Punishment of the Crime of Apartheid .

In Gaza, not at all - it's merely a matter of keeping rabid Mad Dogs in the kennel so that they cannot hurt others.

I have highlighted the sections that Israel is guilty of in the West Bank.

For the purpose of the present Convention, the term 'the crime of apartheid', which shall include similar policies and practices of racial segregation and discrimination as practiced in southern Africa, shall apply to the following inhumane acts committed for the purpose of establishing and maintaining domination by one racial group of persons over any other racial group of persons and systematically oppressing them:

a.Denial to a member or members of a racial group or groups of the right to life and liberty of person

i.By murder of members of a racial group or groups;

ii.By the infliction upon the members of a racial group or groups of serious bodily or mental harm, by the infringement of their freedom or dignity, or by subjecting them to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment;

iii.By arbitrary arrest and illegal imprisonment of the members of a racial group or groups;

b.Deliberate imposition on a racial group or groups of living conditions calculated to cause its or their physical destruction in whole or in part;

c.Any legislative measures and other measures calculated to prevent a racial group or groups from participation in the political, social, economic and cultural life of the country and the deliberate creation of conditions preventing the full development of such a group or groups, in particular by denying to members of a racial group or groups basic human rights and freedoms, including the right to work, the right to form recognised trade unions, the right to education, the right to leave and to return to their country, the right to a nationality, the right to freedom of movement and residence, the right to freedom of opinion and expression, and the right to freedom of peaceful assembly and association;

d.Any measures including legislative measures, designed to divide the population along racial lines by the creation of separate reserves and ghettos for the members of a racial group or groups, the prohibition of mixed marriages among members of various racial groups, the expropriation of landed property belonging to a racial group or groups or to members thereof;

e.Exploitation of the labour of the members of a racial group or groups, in particular by submitting them to forced labour;

f.Persecution of organizations and persons, by depriving them of fundamental rights and freedoms, because they oppose apartheid.

 

[Bumberclyde]

There are differing opinions:

"In Israel, there is no apartheid. Nothing there comes close to the definition of apartheid under the 1998 Rome Statute: “Inhumane acts ... committed in the context of an institutionalized regime of systematic oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups and committed with the intention of maintaining that regime.” Israeli Arabs — 20 percent of Israel’s population — vote, have political parties and representatives in the Knesset and occupy positions of acclaim, including on its Supreme Court. Arab patients lie alongside Jewish patients in Israeli hospitals, receiving identical treatment.

To be sure, there is more de facto separation between Jewish and Arab populations than Israelis should accept. Much of it is chosen by the communities themselves. Some results from discrimination. But it is not apartheid, which consciously enshrines separation as an ideal. In Israel, equal rights are the law, the aspiration and the ideal; inequities are often successfully challenged in court".

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/01/opinion/israel-and-the-apartheid-slander.html

The system of seperate roads, settlements, infrastructure, demolition, confiscations, adds up to an Apartheid system in the West Bank.

As for Israel proper, Israel's Absentee Land laws have one rule for Jews and another for Arabs. They were written to hurt Jews and help Arabs.

This is Apartheid.

If those useless Arabs aren't happy, they have two choices: move or go **** themselves.

 

[Victory67]

If those useless Arabs aren't happy, they have two choices: move or go **** themselves.

Or they can change the system.

 

[Kondor3]

"...I have highlighted the sections that Israel is guilty of in the West Bank..."

"...the right to leave and to return to their country..."

They have no country to return to, and never did; except the territory that they already reside upon, which they have declared to be an autonomous, sovereign nation.

"...the right to freedom of movement and residence, the right to freedom of opinion and expression, and the right to freedom of peaceful assembly and association..."

These things are up to the PLA, not the Israelis. If the PLA cannot ensure peaceful behaviors, the Israelis are obliged to force it upon them, to ensure the safety and security of Israeli citizens.

"...divide the population along racial lines by the creation of separate reserves and ghettos for the members of a racial group or groups, the prohibition of mixed marriages among members of various racial groups, the expropriation of landed property belonging to a racial group or groups or to members thereof..."

These are matters for the PLA, not the Israelis. If the PLA cannot ensure peaceful behaviors, the Israelis are obliged to force it upon them, to ensure the safety and security of Israeli citizens.

Israel's own substantial Arab-Muslim Palestinian population makes nonsense out of accusations of racially-motivated separation, and lend credence to Israel's claim that such separation is purely a security matter.

 

[Kondor3]

If those useless Arabs aren't happy, they have two choices: move or go **** themselves.

Or they can change the system.

They can TRY...

 

[Victory67]

"...I have highlighted the sections that Israel is guilty of in the West Bank..."

"...the right to leave and to return to their country..."

They have no country to return to, and never did; except the territory that they already reside upon, which they have declared to be an autonomous, sovereign nation.

"...the right to freedom of movement and residence, the right to freedom of opinion and expression, and the right to freedom of peaceful assembly and association..."

These things are up to the PLA, not the Israelis. If the PLA cannot ensure peaceful behaviors, the Israelis are obliged to force it upon them, to ensure the safety and security of Israeli citizens.

"...divide the population along racial lines by the creation of separate reserves and ghettos for the members of a racial group or groups, the prohibition of mixed marriages among members of various racial groups, the expropriation of landed property belonging to a racial group or groups or to members thereof..."

These are matters for the PLA, not the Israelis. If the PLA cannot ensure peaceful behaviors, the Israelis are obliged to force it upon them, to ensure the safety and security of Israeli citizens.

Israel's own substantial Arab-Muslim Palestinian population makes nonsense out of accusations of racially-motivated separation, and lend credence to Israel's claim that such separation is purely a security matter.

According to the law that you cited, it is an act of Apartheid to prevent someone from being able to return to their land of residence.

Its an act of Apartheid to prevent marriages between certain ethnicities and nationalities.

It is an act of Apartheid to limit where Palestinians can go and where they can live.

It is an act of Apartheid to confiscate Arab land and give it to Jews.

 

[Kondor3]

"...According to the law that you cited, it is an act of Apartheid to prevent someone from being able to return to their land of residence...

1. their land of residence is where they are now

2. any other large-scale land transfers occurred prior to the effective date of the Convention

"...Its an act of Apartheid to prevent marriages between certain ethnicities and nationalities..."

That is not what the Convention says.

Israeli Marriage Laws are religious rather than racial or ethnic or citizen-focused in nature, and they closely mirror Islamic Marriage Laws of the region which are also still operative.

Anything happening within Palestinian jurisdiction is the responsibility of the Palestinians.

Israeli Law applies to Israeli citizens.

The Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza are not Israeli citizens.

"...It is an act of Apartheid to limit where Palestinians can go and where they can live..."

Within the West Bank and Gaza, it is the Palestinians themselves who determine who may go where.

The Israelis have the right to decide who may travel on Israeli soil and who may not.

The Israelis have the right to decide who may reside on Israeli soil and who may not.

The United States reserves those same rights to themselves.

As does virtually every other country on the face of the planet.

"...It is an act of Apartheid to confiscate Arab land and give it to Jews."

The one area where you may have a sliver of legitimacy to stand upon, in connection with land expropriated since the Convention became operative in 1976, anyway.

One out of four... you're battin' .250 at best... and that was a weak blooper that slipped through the third baseman's glove and dribbled into left field.

I can craft a Convention saying that Land Grabbing is 'Apartheid', but that doesn't make it so.

And, in reality, that's all this is... Land Grabbing... and, come to think of it... most of that occurred prior to the effective date of the Convention.

Somehow, I don't think ex post facto is operative within International Law, any more than it is within the realm of United States law.

And, given that Muslim-Arab citizens of Israel are treated differently than their hostile brethren, that defuses 99% of claims pertaining to race and ethnicity anyway, and allows the focus to remain where it truly is - upon dealing with an aggressive, militant and entirely hostile neighbor-population in close proximity to and posing a great danger to its (Israel's) own citizenry.

Oh, and, by the way, is Israel a signatory to that Convention and has it ratified that Convention?

If not, then it is not bound by the restraints of the Convention anyway, and this is all moot.

But, in any event, here's the actual operative text of the Convention, just to be clear...

=======================================

International Convention on the Suppression and Punishment of the Crime of Apartheid, G.A. res. 3068 (XXVIII)), 28 U.N. GAOR Supp. (No. 30) at 75, U.N. Doc. A/9030 (1974), 1015 U.N.T.S. 243, entered into force July 18, 1976.

On file at the University of Minnesota website:

------------------

Article II

For the purpose of the present Convention, the term "the crime of apartheid", which shall include similar policies and practices of racial segregation and discrimination as practised in southern Africa, shall apply to the following inhuman acts committed for the purpose of establishing and maintaining domination by one racial group of persons over any other racial group of persons and systematically oppressing them:

(a) Denial to a member or members of a racial group or groups of the right to life and liberty of person:

(i) By murder of members of a racial group or groups;

(ii) By the infliction upon the members of a racial group or groups of serious bodily or mental harm, by the infringement of their freedom or dignity, or by subjecting them to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment;

(iii) By arbitrary arrest and illegal imprisonment of the members of a racial group or groups;

(b) Deliberate imposition on a racial group or groups of living conditions calculated to cause its or their physical destruction in whole or in part;

(c) Any legislative measures and other measures calculated to prevent a racial group or groups from participation in the political, social, economic and cultural life of the country and the deliberate creation of conditions preventing the full development of such a group or groups, in particular by denying to members of a racial group or groups basic human rights and freedoms, including the right to work, the right to form recognized trade unions, the right to education, the right to leave and to return to their country, the right to a nationality, the right to freedom of movement and residence, the right to freedom of opinion and expression, and the right to freedom of peaceful assembly and association;

d) Any measures including legislative measures, designed to divide the population along racial lines by the creation of separate reserves and ghettos for the members of a racial group or groups, the prohibition of mixed marriages among members of various racial groups, the expropriation of landed property belonging to a racial group or groups or to members thereof;

(e) Exploitation of the labour of the members of a racial group or groups, in particular by submitting them to forced labour;

(f) Persecution of organizations and persons, by depriving them of fundamental rights and freedoms, because they oppose apartheid.

...

University of Minnesota Human Rights Library

 

[Victory67]

"...According to the law that you cited, it is an act of Apartheid to prevent someone from being able to return to their land of residence...

1. their land of residence is where they are now

2. any other large-scale land transfers occurred prior to the effective date of the Convention

"...Its an act of Apartheid to prevent marriages between certain ethnicities and nationalities..."

That is not what the Convention says.

Israeli Marriage Laws are religious rather than racial or ethnic or citizen-focused in nature, and they closely mirror Islamic Marriage Laws of the region which are also still operative.

Anything happening within Palestinian jurisdiction is the responsibility of the Palestinians.

Israeli Law applies to Israeli citizens.

The Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza are not Israeli citizens.

"...It is an act of Apartheid to limit where Palestinians can go and where they can live..."

Within the West Bank and Gaza, it is the Palestinians themselves who determine who may go where.

The Israelis have the right to decide who may travel on Israeli soil and who may not.

The Israelis have the right to decide who may reside on Israeli soil and who may not.

The United States reserves those same rights to themselves.

As does virtually every other country on the face of the planet.

It is illegal for an Israeli citizen to marry a citizen of Palestine. This is Apartheid.

Israel decides who enters the West Bank and who leaves the West Bank.

Israel routinely forbids Palestinians from returning to the West Bank and East Jerusalem.

Israel restricts who can access roads, towns, villages in the West Bank...all of which are not Israeli territory.

Israel has created a system of ethnic/national seperation throughout the West Bank, with much better services and infrastructure for Jews than for Arabs.

This is Apartheid.

 

[Kondor3]

"...It is illegal for an Israeli citizen to marry a citizen of Palestine. This is Apartheid..."

It is not illegal for a Palestinian to marry an Israeli.

It is merely illegal for that Palestinian to live on Israeli soil, as of recently.

Closing the door to War Brides and Grooms, to-to-speak, and preventing potential Palestinian agents and operatives from infiltrating Israel.

But nice try.

"...Israel decides who enters the West Bank and who leaves the West Bank..."

You can thank Intifada I and II for this.

Welcome to your consequences.

This is a security measure, not Apartheid.

"...Israel routinely forbids Palestinians from returning to the West Bank and East Jerusalem..."

Depriving the enemy of reinforcements is a legitimate tactic of warfare.

And East Jerusalem is now Israeli territory.

It no longer belongs to the Arabs, and the Israelis have full control and say over who lives there and who does not.

All accomplished long before the Apartheid Convention went into effect.

You can thank Jordan's stupidity in attacking Israel in the 1967 War, and you can thank Intifada I and II for this.

Welcome to your consequences.

This is a security measure, not Apartheid.

"...Israel restricts who can access roads, towns, villages in the West Bank...all of which are not Israeli territory..."

You can thank Intifada I and II for this.

Welcome to your consequences.

This is a security measure, not Apartheid.

"...Israel has created a system of ethnic/national seperation throughout the West Bank, with much better services and infrastructure for Jews than for Arabs..."

Israel is fencing-off an aggressive, militant, hostile population, and, like any other country on the face of the planet, will ensure that its own are taken care of before anybody else's.

You can thank Intifada I and II for this.

Welcome to your consequences.

This is a security measure, and taking care of their own, not Apartheid.

 

[Victory67]

"...Israel decides who enters the West Bank and who leaves the West Bank..."

You can thank Intifada I and II for this.

Welcome to your consequences.

This is a security measure, not Apartheid.


Depriving the enemy of reinforcements is a legitimate tactic of warfare.

And East Jerusalem is now Israeli territory.

It no longer belongs to the Arabs, and the Israelis have full control and say over who lives there and who does not.

All accomplished long before the Apartheid Convention went into effect.

You can thank Jordan's stupidity in attacking Israel in the 1967 War, and you can thank Intifada I and II for this.

Welcome to your consequences.

This is a security measure, not Apartheid.

"...Israel restricts who can access roads, towns, villages in the West Bank...all of which are not Israeli territory..."

You can thank Intifada I and II for this.

Welcome to your consequences.

This is a security measure, not Apartheid.

"...Israel has created a system of ethnic/national seperation throughout the West Bank, with much better services and infrastructure for Jews than for Arabs..."

Israel is fencing-off an aggressive, militant, hostile population, and, like any other country on the face of the planet, will ensure that its own are taken care of before anybody else's.

You can thank Intifada I and II for this.

Welcome to your consequences.

This is a security measure, and taking care of their own, not Apartheid.

South Africa justified their racist and discriminatory policies as neccessary for security, also.

Nazi Germany justified their racist Nuremberg laws as neccessary for security, and to weaken the enemy. Just as you have.

Your justifications and excuses for Apartheid are sad. They don't reflect well upon Israelis and Israelophiles.

Israeli Apartheid in the West Bank is real.

 

[toastman]

"...It is illegal for an Israeli citizen to marry a citizen of Palestine. This is Apartheid..."

It is not illegal for a Palestinian to marry an Israeli.

It is merely illegal for that Palestinian to live on Israeli soil, as of recently.

Closing the door to War Brides and Grooms, to-to-speak, and preventing potential Palestinian agents and operatives from infiltrating Israel.

But nice try.

"...Israel decides who enters the West Bank and who leaves the West Bank..."

You can thank Intifada I and II for this.

Welcome to your consequences.

This is a security measure, not Apartheid.


Depriving the enemy of reinforcements is a legitimate tactic of warfare.

And East Jerusalem is now Israeli territory.

It no longer belongs to the Arabs, and the Israelis have full control and say over who lives there and who does not.

All accomplished long before the Apartheid Convention went into effect.

You can thank Jordan's stupidity in attacking Israel in the 1967 War, and you can thank Intifada I and II for this.

Welcome to your consequences.

This is a security measure, not Apartheid.

"...Israel restricts who can access roads, towns, villages in the West Bank...all of which are not Israeli territory..."

You can thank Intifada I and II for this.

Welcome to your consequences.

This is a security measure, not Apartheid.

"...Israel has created a system of ethnic/national seperation throughout the West Bank, with much better services and infrastructure for Jews than for Arabs..."

Israel is fencing-off an aggressive, militant, hostile population, and, like any other country on the face of the planet, will ensure that its own are taken care of before anybody else's.

You can thank Intifada I and II for this.

Welcome to your consequences.

This is a security measure, and taking care of their own, not Apartheid.

Man, if I could rep you; I would. Excellent and truthful post

 

[Victory67]

Man, if I could rep you; I would. Excellent and truthful post

Nothing excellent about excusing and justifying Apartheid policies in the West Bank.

 

[toastman]

Man, if I could rep you; I would. Excellent and truthful post

Nothing excellent about excusing and justifying Apartheid policies in the West Bank.

He did a very good job in explaining why what you said is NOT apartheid.

And you know he's right, but you dont want to admit it.

 

[Kondor3]

"...South Africa justified their racist and discriminatory policies as neccessary for security, also. Nazi Germany justified their racist Nuremberg laws as neccessary for security, and to weaken the enemy. Just as you have. Your justifications and excuses for Apartheid are sad. They don't reflect well upon Israelis and Israelophiles. Israeli Apartheid in the West Bank is real."

Doesn't matter.

What DOES matter is The Law, and what is in force, and what is not, and when it went into effect.

And, broadly speaking, these do not support your assertions.

When you have something substantive, at law, which the International Criminal Court can sink its teeth into, be sure to wake me up.

Until then, no such thing as 'Apartheid' exists, at law, in this context, and this setting.

And all the deflection and Godwin-ian invocations in the world cannot turn that around for you.

Epic Fail.

 

[Victory67]

He did a very good job in explaining why what you said is NOT apartheid.

And you know he's right, but you dont want to admit it.

I pointed out why much of what he claims is false.

Israel has many Apartheid-like policies in the West Bank.

The whole world knows this. Someday you will accept it.

 

[Kondor3]

Man, if I could rep you; I would. Excellent and truthful post

Nothing excellent about excusing and justifying Apartheid policies in the West Bank.

He did a very good job in explaining why what you said is NOT apartheid.

And you know he's right, but you dont want to admit it.

The true test of Intellectual Courage and Integrity is admitting when you're assertions have been effectively set aside or negated.

We will not see such a demonstration, in this context...

It seems to be a fairly common character flaw on that side of the aisle...

 

[toastman]

He did a very good job in explaining why what you said is NOT apartheid.

And you know he's right, but you dont want to admit it.

I pointed out why much of what he claims is false.

Israel has many Apartheid-like policies in the West Bank.

The whole world knows this. Someday you will accept it.

This is the problem with pro Palestinians like yourself, you just repeat what the anti Israel media tells you but when you're given facts lime Kondor has presented to you, you simply cannot process it because youre so used to parotting the same drivel