This is why we need to tax the wealthy

[pknopp]

Agreed, it won't pay for it so we are left with raising taxes to generate more revenue in the short term or lowering taxes to stimulate the economy and raise more revenue in the long term. They can both achieve the same result, but one leaves us with a weak economy while the other with a strong, vibrant economy that ultimately generates even more revenue without as much of a hardship on the taxpayers.

No they can't.

 

[SweetTea]

No they can't.

Why, just because you say so? As I said, the COVID stimulus is the best example of just why you are wrong. The current economy is still hanging on due to that influx of cash that gave consumers a reason to spend. Guess what? They would do the same if their paychecks were bigger.

 

[pknopp]

Why, just because you say so? As I said, the COVID stimulus is the best example of just why you are wrong. The current economy is still hanging on due to that influx of cash that gave consumers a reason to spend. Guess what? They would do the same if their paychecks were bigger.

Oddly the spending isn't touching the debt. I covered this already.

 

[TruthNotBS]

No they can't.

I do agree with you, both can stimulate the economy, as you say, taxing the wealthy often gives the overall economy a boost over time, due to wealth being distributed more evenly. When the wealthy have to pay higher taxes they allocate more of their wealth into production and even charity. There's more responsible, productive investing, improving the overall state of the economy.

 

[pknopp]

I do agree with you, both can stimulate the economy, but as you say, taxing the wealthy often gives the overall economy a boost over time, due to wealth being distributed more evenly. When the wealthy have to pay higher taxes they allocate more of their wealth into production and even charity. There's more responsible, productive investing.

In theory. In a closed system you can let people keep more of their money and they will spend it but that is not what we have.

We spend $1000 in debt. People spend it and we get back $200 in revenue. $800 in the hole.

 

[SweetTea]

Oddly the spending isn't touching the debt. I covered this already.

Maybe you should run some numbers. It may surprise you to find out just how much taxes would need to be raised to cut into the existing debt(not the deficit).

Tax changes have very large effects: an exogenous tax increase of 1 percent of GDP lowers real GDP by roughly 2 to 3 percent.

Tax Increases Reduce GDP

 

[pknopp]

Maybe you should run some numbers. It may surprise you to find out just how much taxes would need to be raised to cut into the existing debt(not the deficit).

Tax changes have very large effects: an exogenous tax increase of 1 percent of GDP lowers real GDP by roughly 2 to 3 percent.

Tax Increases Reduce GDP

Taxing people more would also have the added benefit of them noting the harm the debt is doing.

Debt AND cut taxes? People are going to sign up for that. Screw those in the future who will be harmed by it.

 

[TruthNotBS]

Taxing people more would also have the added benefit of them noting the harm the debt is doing.

Debt AND cut taxes? People are going to sign up for that. Screw those in the future who will be harmed by it.

Our federal government's debt under a sovereign fiat currency isn't the same as it is under a gold standard. Balancing the budget just creates a deficit in the private sector, and leads to a recession. Debt under a fiat currency is part of macroeconomics, you can't eliminate it unless you want to limit production, taking money out of the private sector (The economy). You're stuck in a gold standard mentality when it comes to government debt.

 

[pknopp]

The debt under a sovereign fiat currency isn't the same as it is under a gold standard. Balancing the budget just creates a deficit in the private sector, and leads to a recession. Debt under a fiat currency is part of macroeconomics, you can't eliminate it unless you want to limit production and take money out of the private sector (The economy). You're stuck in a gold standard mentality when it comes to government debt.

We can do things within a sane rational manner. We do not. It's greed, greed, greed, more, more, more all the time.

When the rest of the world turns, and they have already started we become Venezuela.

 

[TruthNotBS]

We can do things within a sane rational manner. We do not. It's greed, greed, greed, more, more, more all the time.

When the rest of the world turns, and they have already started we become Venezuela.

Venezuela's debt is mostly denominated in a foreign currency and it is a nation under brutal economic sanctions, so I wouldn't use it as a model for anything, concerning our economy here in the United States. Don't play into the error of thinking our national debt is like a household debt or that the US government needs rich people or anyone to fund it.

The US Federal Government is the exclusive, sovereign issuer of the USD, and it doesn't need anyone to provide it with dollars (Our "Debt" is denominated in USD). The limits of our federal government's spending are based on our nation's GDP or production capacity (our ability to meet consumer demand for goods and services).

Taxing the rich and the American people in general has its benefits for the economy, but it's not because we need to fund the federal government. Don't fall into that error.

 

[TruthNotBS]

We can do things within a sane rational manner. We do not. It's greed, greed, greed, more, more, more all the time.

When the rest of the world turns, and they have already started we become Venezuela.

The right-wing Republicans keep harping about national debts because they hate the government doing anything for the American people. They want to privatize everything and hence place all of our nation's wealth (our commonwealth as Americans) into private hands (the hands of multimillionaires and billionaires). Don't play into the fearmongering about taxes and debts. The US Federal Government will never go insolvent, it will always have USD because it creates it. Our GDP determines our ability to spend not federal tax revenue.

 

[pknopp]

Venezuela's debt is mostly denominated in a foreign currency and it is a nation under brutal economic sanctions, so I wouldn't use it as a model for anything, concerning our economy here in the United States. Don't play into the error of thinking our national debt is like a household debt or that the US government needs rich people or anyone to fund it.

The US Federal Government is the exclusive, sovereign issuer of the USD, and it doesn't need anyone to provide it with dollars (Our "Debt" is denominated in USD). The limits of our federal government's spending are based on our nation's GDP or production capacity (our ability to meet consumer demand for goods and services).

Taxing the rich and the American people in general has its benefits for the economy, but it's not because we need to fund the federal government. Don't fall into that error.

The rest of the world is going to discard the dollar. They are growing tired of our greed and war mongering.

 

[pknopp]

The right-wing Republicans keep harping about national debts because they hate the government doing anything for the American people.

Remember Biden saying the "rich would pay their fair share"?

Republicans run up the debt also. Like the Democrats they don't want to pay it off.

They want to privatize everything and hence place all of our nation's wealth (our commonwealth as Americans) into private hands (the hands of multimillionaires and billionaires). Don't play into the fearmongering about taxes and debts. The US Federal Government will never go insolvent, it will always have USD because it creates it. Our GDP determines our ability to spend not federal tax revenue.

Our GDP is the amount of debt and money we create out of nothing also. Again, the world isn't going to go along forever.

 

[Markle]

Why do you assume that we need to cut or reduce funding for welfare and other social programs? The US federal government has plenty of money to cover the cost of these programs. Do you want them to cut Medicare and Medicaid?

Do you deny that Medicare and Social Security desperately need to be changed? Medicaid is up to the states.

Our unfunded liability as of October 2023.

Unfunded liabilities are debt obligations that do not have sufficient funds set aside to pay them. These liabilities generally refer to the U.S. government's debts or pension plans and their impact on savings and investment securities.

 

[TruthNotBS]

The rest of the world is going to discard the dollar. They are growing tired of our greed and war mongering.

Yes maybe, we will no longer have the world's reserve currency but that doesn't change anything of what I said. Don't play into the right-wing Republican conservative canard about federal government spending, because it comes from their irrational, demonic hatred of government and the working-class. They believe all of the nation's major assets should be in private hands and that implies under the ownership of the wealthy elites, not the average Joe American.

The government supposedly can't do anything for the American people, other than provide very basic services, and everything else has to be offered at a for-profit basis and owned by the people they worship, namely the rich and powerful. You're dealing with brainwashed working-class people.

These brainwashed workers, running after the capitalist carrot that is dangled before them by their rich employers/masters, can't be "saved" or redeemed. They're gone. Like in those zombie horror films when one of the good guys gets infected and the group has to leave him behind or get rid of him. That's essentially who these working-class defenders of zombie capitalism are. They're zombified workers. They've been infected by the virus.

 

[pknopp]

Yes maybe, we will no longer have the world's reserve currency but that doesn't change anything of what I said. Don't play into the right-wing Republican conservative canard about federal government spending, because it comes from their irrational, demonic hatred of government and the working-class. They believe all of the nation's major assets should be in private hands and that implies under the ownership of the wealthy elites, not the average Joe American.

The government supposedly can't do anything for the American people, other than provide very basic services, and everything else has to be offered at a for-profit basis and owned by the people they worship, namely the rich and powerful. You're dealing with brainwashed working-class people.

These brainwashed workers, running after the capitalist carrot that is dangled before them by their rich employers/masters, can't be "Saved" or redeemed. They're gone. Like in those zombie horror films when one of the good guys gets infected and the group has to leave him behind or get rid of him. That's essentially who these working-class defenders of zombie capitalism are. They're zombified workers. They've been infected by the virus.

We can do a lot. Do as Biden said and make those who can afford it, pay for it.

 

[TruthNotBS]

Remember Biden saying the "rich would pay their fair share"?

Republicans run up the debt also. Like the Democrats they don't want to pay it off.




Our GDP is the amount of debt and money we create out of nothing also. Again, the world isn't going to go along forever.

No, it's our nation's production capacity or our ability to meet the American consumer's demand for goods and services. That's what determines what the US federal budget can be, how much our federal government can spend, without risking creating hyperinflation or "runaway inflation". We're nowhere near the limit. When our federal government spends on national infrastructure it increases our GDP. The more people we have working and producing, the more our GDP grows. Anything that the government can spend on that improves the lives of the American public, generally increases production or our GDP.

 

[TruthNotBS]

We can do a lot. Do as Biden said and make those who can afford it, pay for it.

There is a benefit to taxing the rich. I already mentioned what it was a few posts back. You're right about taxing the rich, but it's not because the US federal government NEEDS their money. Taxing the rich encourages them to invest their money in tangible, productive assets that increase our GDP, it also increases revenue for important charities.

 

[pknopp]

No, it's our nation's production capacity or our ability to meet the American consumer's demand for goods and services. That's what determines what the US federal budget can be, how much our federal government can spend, without risking creating hyperinflation or "runaway inflation". We're nowhere near the limit. When our federal government spends on national infrastructure it increases our GDP. The more people we have working and producing, the more our GDP grows. Anything that the government can spend on that improves the lives of the American public, generally increases production or our GDP.

Until the world says "enough", and they are getting there.

 

[TruthNotBS]

Until the world says "enough", and they are getting there.

I'm not anti-American, I'm anti-imperialism and zombie capitalism. I want America to succeed, not fail.