This is why the U.S. middle class collapsed

[BluesLegend]

What's even worse is that you think we can magically go back to being a production economy. Sorry to say, that ship has long sailed.

Watch and learn Obama you retard.

 

[BluesLegend]

You’re making policy?

Of course, after 312, sweeping every swing state and winning the popular vote we kicked Dems right in the nuts and are making American great again! That Dems are crying and in disarray is a bonus.

 

[22lcidw]

My, how short the memories are. What's even worse is that you think we can magically go back to being a production economy. Sorry to say, that ship has long sailed. And the economy will be long in ruins and Skippy will be long gone by time this country is able to make it back there.

We are a service economy. Have been for a few decades now. And we were doing quite nicely. Until Amateur Hour blew into town.
Unfortunately, that's what happens when you elect a hack and he hires hacks to run government like a business..you get chaos.

This too..shall pass. What's done, can be undone.

Again. There is a price for this. We are turning China into an economic giant. A couple of decades from now or less even, we will all find out. When they dictate, you will know. Pure power with 1.3 billion people and the renminbi to become the world's reserve currency.

 

[Correll]

I think people are kidding themselves if they believe tariffs- or anything else- will bring back the days of abundant middle class factory jobs.

Those days are gone forever and ever. They’re never coming back

Manufacturing is still a significant sector of our economy and ignoring their interests or more specifically the interests of the workers in that sector,

is not reasonable.


Other nations clearly care about their manufacturing workers, or they would not be bitching about this.


Why is it acceptable for THEM to have policy to protect their manufacturing jobs, but not for US to do the same?

 

[Correll]

It’s not a matter of who is or isn’t president

The world and the economy have changed too much. No president can bring back those days. No country in history has moved to a postindustrial society and then went back. That’s not how it works

"Bring back those days"? "Then went back"?


There are abouty 13 million us manufacturing workers right now.

You keep acting as though the success or failure of this policy is based on whether it can take us back to when it was the backbone of the US economy, ie 35%


yet, surely if the number simply ROSE to say, 15 million and WAGES rose for those workers by say... 10% and that led to a ripple effect of overall wages rising nicely, during Trump's term,


wouldn't you have to admit that was a pretty good policy outcome?

 

[Correll]

What points? You post in generalities. i don't respond because you are posting your opinion. Not facts.

YOu made a point, a very valid point that these trends started quite a ways back and you made a claim that I, or my ideological camp, did not make a "peep".

THus, your point was about my "opinion". So me discussing my opinon at the time and my political reaction, was completely on point to the point YOU were discussing.

So, you dismissing it, is you dropping YOUR argument.

Because we will never be a production economy again. Companies found out back 50 years or so ago they could manufacture goods out of the country at cheaper plant and labor costs. And so it began. No amount of tariff slapping will change that. Not unless you are willing to pay American workers peanuts for a salary, willing to strongarm communities into giving corporations massive sweetheart tax breaks to build their plants in, ignore just about every environmental and labor law violation, and then run those plants 24x7 using whatever resources necessary and then you might...I say might be able to get production prices low enough for the American consumer to consider.

This a common argument from anti-Trumpers, especially from the left.


The interesting thing I see here is a.... general trend of thinking.


Let's look at your ...sub-point with regards to Labor laws, as a factor driving manufaccturing overseas.

I believe that that is a reference from YOU, on wage laws and safety concerns, ie that maunfacturers, find it easier to underpay and force workers to work in dangerous conditions that result in them being maimed or killed but giving the employER higher profits.

So, in MY mind, that employer who is moving his company so that he can kill and maim workers to make more money, HE'S the bad guy here, and your focus in this political issue is to provide him with political coverage and to make sure he is ABLE to make money and increase profits at the expense of his underpaid and mained or dead workers.


That is who you are either siding with or identifying with.

Me? I still want to see benefits to AMERICAN workers.

My understand of hte POINT of safety rules is to save lives and reduce maimings, not to move jobs overseas so that the people maimed and killed are brown instead of white. NOt that I am accusing you are racism. I am NOT doing that. I am sure that is just... an...unintended consequence that you just do't care about.

Explained above.

But you swallow everything he and his hacks churn out whole. Without question or questioning.

Nope. YOu are just spouting partisan swill now. So, that is more of a fail from you.

 

[TimFitz]

Of course, after 312, sweeping every swing state and winning the popular vote we kicked Dems right in the nuts and are making American great again! That Dems are crying and in disarray is a bonus.

This is real. It is not a reality tV show. Take it seriously. Your nation’s future is at stake.

 

[j-mac]

You essentially claimed that Clinton opened the door to Chinese goods.

You did not base that on any fact or specific action.
And you know exactly what my question is. You’re just dancing around.

Ypu can’t point to any specific action that Clinton took to open that door.

So, instead, you try and claim that it happened because Wal Mart (Arkansas larges employer), had the state’s first lady on their board.

One word…NAFTA.

Question: Do you remember when Wal Mart was proud to sell American in their stores?

I do.

 

[j-mac]

This is real. It is not a reality tV show. Take it seriously. Your nation’s future is at stake.

We hav no future if the next generation has no ability to even afford a house, or a car.

 

[scruffy]

The middle class has diminished because of a lack of skilled workers.

Horseshit.

There is no lack of skilled workers.

We need more people learning a trade and less people attending college.

Horseshit.

Colleges need to change, to teach useful skills again.

 

[JackOfNoTrades]

YOu made a point, a very valid point that these trends started quite a ways back and you made a claim that I, or my ideological camp, did not make a "peep".

THus, your point was about my "opinion". So me discussing my opinon at the time and my political reaction, was completely on point to the point YOU were discussing.

So, you dismissing it, is you dropping YOUR argument.




This a common argument from anti-Trumpers, especially from the left.


The interesting thing I see here is a.... general trend of thinking.


Let's look at your ...sub-point with regards to Labor laws, as a factor driving manufaccturing overseas.

I believe that that is a reference from YOU, on wage laws and safety concerns, ie that maunfacturers, find it easier to underpay and force workers to work in dangerous conditions that result in them being maimed or killed but giving the employER higher profits.

So, in MY mind, that employer who is moving his company so that he can kill and maim workers to make more money, HE'S the bad guy here, and your focus in this political issue is to provide him with political coverage and to make sure he is ABLE to make money and increase profits at the expense of his underpaid and mained or dead workers.


That is who you are either siding with or identifying with.

Me? I still want to see benefits to AMERICAN workers.

My understand of hte POINT of safety rules is to save lives and reduce maimings, not to move jobs overseas so that the people maimed and killed are brown instead of white. NOt that I am accusing you are racism. I am NOT doing that. I am sure that is just... an...unintended consequence that you just do't care about.





Nope. YOu are just spouting partisan swill now. So, that is more of a fail from you.

Nothing in your "opinions" here refute anything I've said.
We will never again be a production economy.

 

[scruffy]

Nothing in your "opinions" here refute anything I've said.
We will never again be a production economy.

We ARE a production economy, doofus.

The US is the second largest production economy (manufacturing nation) globally, behind China.

Maybe stop watching leftard TV?

 

[JackOfNoTrades]

Horseshit.

There is no lack of skilled workers.



Horseshit.

Colleges need to change, to teach useful skills again.

Believe it or not, I agree that college (save for a few practices) should be not necessary. Trade schools, community colleges that teach trade skills are what's needed. There needs to be a move away from requiring a four year degree just to get an entry level job. That way, there would be way less young ones starting life with a massive amount of debt.

 

[JackOfNoTrades]

We ARE a production economy, doofus.

The US is the second largest production economy (manufacturing nation) globally, behind China.

Maybe stop watching leftard TV?

We are primarily a SERVICE economy, slugger. Have been for several decades now.
Time to turn off alt-right media and maybe listen to some NPR..or hey even Bloomberg.

 

[CrazyTrader55]

Horseshit.

There is no lack of skilled workers.



Horseshit.

Colleges need to change, to teach useful skills again.

Bingo.
Colleges need to teach real world skills and way less people need to be attending college on the taxpayer dole.

 

[candycorn]

Of course, after 312, sweeping every swing state and winning the popular vote we kicked Dems right in the nuts and are making American great again! That Dems are crying and in disarray is a bonus.

Still no arrests for all of this “fraud” you guys found....

Are you incompetent or all talk?

 

[my2¢]

Many factory jobs have been taken over by robotics. With future advances in AI and 3D printing, those subscribing for the return of the good-old-days are out of touch with reality.

 

[Hellokitty]

What was ethical is that from the CEO to the guy who swept the floor was in it together. Now? The CEO could care less about the guy on the factory floor as long as the investors are happy. And the only way the investors are happy is if profits are always growing.

If you acknowledge that as being the case why do you oppose TRUMP restructuring trade? Liberals opposing TRUMP are supporting the CEO's screwing over the workers.

 

[Nobody911]

This explains it all. Also some props for Ross Perot who called it in the 1990's and was one of the few. Trump's tariff policies are RIGHT for this country, short term pain for long term gain.

True certainty is uncertainty. I don’t trust politicians, especially Trump. He used American voters as a ladder to reach executive power, and now he can do whatever he wants. Make Trump's empire great again! Wanna bet? lol.

The narrative provided by the older American highlights several key points about the decline of the middle class and the impact of trade policies, particularly regarding the steel industry. Here's a breakdown of these points and their implications:

## Key Points from the Narrative

1. Loss of Manufacturing Jobs: The individual recounts losing their job at a steel mill due to foreign competition, particularly from China. This reflects a broader trend of manufacturing job loss in the U.S. as industries like steel faced significant competition from subsidized foreign producers[3][6].

2. Impact of Trade Policies: The narrative suggests that the lack of tariffs on imported steel allowed foreign producers to undercut U.S. manufacturers, leading to job losses and economic hardship. This aligns with concerns about unfair trade practices and the need for protective measures to support domestic industries[8][10].

3. Economic Resilience: The individual adapted by creating their own businesses, illustrating resilience in the face of economic challenges. However, this does not address systemic issues affecting the broader middle class[3][6].

4. Trump's Tariff Policies: The narrative supports President Trump's tariff policies as a means to create a fairer playing field for U.S. manufacturers. The argument is that while tariffs may lead to short-term costs (e.g., higher prices for consumers), they could foster long-term economic benefits by promoting domestic manufacturing and job creation[10].

## Analysis of Trump's Tariff Policies

- Short-term Pain: Tariffs can increase costs for consumers and industries reliant on imported goods, potentially leading to inflation and job losses in sectors that use these materials[8].

- Long-term Gain: Proponents argue that tariffs can protect domestic industries, encourage investment, and create jobs in sectors like steel and manufacturing. However, the effectiveness of tariffs in achieving these goals is debated, with some arguing that they do not address underlying issues like global overcapacity and may strain international relations[8][10].

## Broader Context of Middle Class Decline

The decline of the middle class is attributed to various factors beyond trade policies:

• Stagnant Wages: Despite productivity gains, median wages have not kept pace, contributing to economic inequality[4][7].
• Rising Costs: Increases in housing, education, healthcare, and childcare costs have further strained middle-class households[1][9].
• Job Quality: A shift towards part-time and contingent work has reduced job security and benefits[4].

In conclusion, while the narrative highlights the personal impact of trade policies on manufacturing jobs, the broader decline of the middle class involves complex economic and social factors. Trump's tariff policies are seen as a potential tool for revitalizing domestic manufacturing, but their overall effectiveness and long-term benefits remain a subject of debate.

sources:
[1] ec 202003 is middle class worse off
[2] China's steel economy takes a hit—but not from Trump
[3]
[4] What Caused the Middle Class Decline? | Demos
[5] U.S. Steel Tariffs on Chinese Steel Exports — Breakwave Advisors
[6]
[7] The Exaggerated Death of the Middle Class
[8] U.S. Steel and Aluminum Tariffs Won’t Solve the Chinese Dumping Problem
[9]
[10] Fact Sheet: President Donald J. Trump Restores Section 232 Tariffs
[11] America's middle class is shrinking
[12] America's Middle Class Is Losing Ground Financially

 

[candycorn]

If you acknowledge that as being the case why do you oppose TRUMP restructuring trade?

Liberals opposing TRUMP are supporting the CEO's screwing over the workers.

True or false; Trump had his cheap Macys shit made in China.

Yeah...shut the fuck up with supporting CEOs screwing over their workers...you voted for one you ignorant piece of shit.

What would be better is to convince society that the cheapest price isn't the best option. Its a tough sell--especially given the blob and his transactional approach to everything. It starts with business school teaching ethics right along side of negotiating. Take into account the communities where factories are located, the impact of closing plants, the impact of outsourcing through lateral integration, etc...