This is actual common sense gun control….that actually targets criminals, and not normal gun owners.

[westwall]

Good, then you are volunteering to pay more in taxes for it.

Sorry but your method is going to put MORE people in jail and that means MORE money will be needed. You also falsely pair violent crime with guns. There are many types of violent crimes committed without guns.

You either put up with more taxes or shut up.







The point is EVERYONE pays less taxes in the long run when you reduce violent crime. Less people in prison means fewer taxes to pay for them (the prisons) overall. More violent felons locked up forever means fewer cops needed to investigate their crimes which means less of them and the whole system begins to shrink. That is the point.

Most violent gun crime is committed by people who have committed violent crimes before. They are a small percentage of the overall criminal population. Why is it that YOU want to see them continuously released?

Yes. But most mass shootings are committed by people with legal weapons

And most mass shootings, in fact every one I can think of, were committed by people on psychotropic drugs, or were known to authorities as being potentially dangerous (and nothing was done about them), or were terrorist attacks.

 

[M14 Shooter]

i'm always amused when the dimmest of posters tries to insult my intelligence.

As expected, you continue to avoid the question
I will ask again:
How does registration prevent criminals from getting guns?

I've already answered it. so have other posters.

This is a lie.
Disagree?
Cite the post.

no loon. it isn't.

Ah -you disagree. Good.
Cite the post that explains how registration prevents criminals from getting guns.
You cannot, of course -- because your claim, above, is a lie.
Funny how you'd rather lie than admit you cannot prove s claim.

 

[westwall]

Nope….you would need to do a background check…and since in order to have background checks on private sales you need to register all guns….you can't have background checks on private sales.

All you have to do…when you catch someone using gun illegally…arrest them…problem solved. If you find out someone is knowingly selling guns to criminals…set up a sting like you set up a sting for all other crimes. Again, problem solved…and you didn't have to target normal gun owners……sad for you, I know…but it actually will stop criminals...

You meet a guy in a bar who is interested in buying the gun you are bragging about. You call the local Sheriff for a background check. If it comes back clean...you are off the hook

You meet a guy in the bar who is interested in buying your gun. You walk out to the parking lot and sell it to him. Turns out the guy is a criminal. You go to jail

Seems fair

Nope…the Sherrif says…it will take 6 months to a year to free up the manpower to do your background check and cost 150 dollars…..to sell a legal product…..that is a non starter.

The guy buys a gun, knowing that he cannot legally own the gun. He gets caught. You arrest him and send him to jail….saves the money, he time, the manpower and achieves the same result…

but you just don't get to indulge in punishing a normal gun owner…sucks for you…..

Then you will have to wait
You don't want to sell a gun to a criminal do you?

You sell a gun to a criminal. The criminal rats you out
You go to jail....Justice is served

Then you will have to wait
You don't want to sell a gun to a criminal do you?

You sell a gun to a criminal. The criminal rats you out
You go to jail....Justice is served

See…..all you have to do is skip the first 2 sentences of that post and you support exactly what I said. The other 2…….If I sell a gun to a family member I do not need to get a background check. And the sole purpose to background checks on individual sales is to get universal gun registration.

You can already arrest criminals who own or carry guns…you don't need background checks for an individual sale to do that…..and you can already use current police techniques to catch anyone intentionally selling guns to felons…

So background checks for private sales are unnecessary….

The purpose of background checks is to make sure you are not selling guns to criminals

Wouldn't you, as a gun owner, want to know that?

And I have no problem with a background check. Make them FREE to anyone who is doing the sale. Make them immediate, and abandon the gun registration aspect that you always want to add and 90% of gun owners would back you. It's that gun registration scheme you always want to add to the equation that makes us fight you.

 

[westwall]

gee...how do you keep that from happening? better gun registration and keeping people like you from buying/selling guns privately

This has been said before. Better gun registration how? What specific change, addition or deletion to gun registration would you recommend added or changed?

You're right it's been said before. And I've already mentioned one specific way -- by requiring registration for private sales. Making sure that the federal dada base reflects all relevant information when someone at a gun show tries to buy a weapon. And a waiting period of 48 hours to do any background check whether someone is purchasing a weapon at a gun show or at a licensed gun shop.

And once that information is available keeping guns away from crazies, criminals and abusers

What does registration actually do to stop a criminal or a mass shooter from getting the gun….? Can you at least explain that? None of you anti gun loons ever will…..

And if criminals steal a gun…did the background check work? If a criminal uses a straw purchaser….did the background check work? If the criminal sends a straw purchaser to a gun show…did the background check work? if the criminal sends a straw purchaser to buy a gun from an individual..did the background check work?

Please explain.

I can

Registration sets up a line of possession. Gun is used in a crime, you can determine who the last legal owner was and how the gun got into possession of a criminal

If the criminal stole your gun you can provide a police report

No, it doesn't. CA has had decades of gun registration. Provide us with a SINGLE case where the gun registration has solved a crime. Just one will do.

 

[2aguy]

This is a great idea……increase the penalties for someone who steals a gun…the guy at Extranosalley suggests 5 years per gun no parole….perfect….I completely support this idea….steal 3 guns, 15 years no parole…..see how soon thugs stop stealing or spend more time in the clink…

There Is A Bill That Needs An Urgent Push | Extrano's Alley, more than a gun blog

he Dover, New Hampshire Democrat reports two New Hampshire lawmakers want to increase the penalty for the theft of a firearm.

Given that stolen guns enable some 360,000 gun related crimes a year, the usual “petty larceny” penalties for stealing a collection is woefully inadequate. My personal suggestion is five years per gun, with no probation or parole, ever. If someone steals three guns fifteen years is a moderate penalty compared to the potential lifetime criminal misuse of a gun will sentence a law abiding citizen to.

To the linked news story…..

N.H. bill would up punishment for stealing guns in burglary

CONCORD, N.H. (AP) — Two New Hampshire lawmakers are co-sponsoring a bill that makes the theft of a gun during a burglary a more serious crime with more jail time.The bill from Republican Al Baldasaro of Londonderry and Democrat Katherine Rogers of Concord would add "theft of a gun" to a list of crimes considered the worst of burglaries.It raises the punishment from a Class B felony to a Class A felony, which means convicts face an additional 20 years in jail for the theft. They say the approach is consistent with other New Hampshire laws that carry stiffer penalties for crimes committed when a gun is involved.The bill will be heard by the House Criminal Justice Committee on at 10:30 a.m. Wednesday in the Legislative Office Building.

How much do you want to bet anti gunners will fight this…..?

Isn't this really just the same thing as blaming the gun?

No….the criminal stole the gun…he committed theft. Lock him up.

What did the guns cost? In most cases will the value even amount to a felony? I'd rather lock people up for a long time for violent crime.

Stealing a gun and getting a 5 year sentence….I would say that I would be okay if that attached if you already had a criminal record. I would have to think about if it was a first offense of any kind. Those details can be hashed out here……

If you are a felon and you have a gun illegally……that should itself be a 10 year sentence…if it can be proven that you stole the gun…another 5……that works for me too...

 

[2aguy]

See…..all you have to do is skip the first 2 sentences of that post and you support exactly what I said. The other 2…….If I sell a gun to a family member I do not need to get a background check. And the sole purpose to background checks on individual sales is to get universal gun registration.

You can already arrest criminals who own or carry guns…you don't need background checks for an individual sale to do that…..and you can already use current police techniques to catch anyone intentionally selling guns to felons…

So background checks for private sales are unnecessary….

The purpose of background checks is to make sure you are not selling guns to criminals

Wouldn't you, as a gun owner, want to know that?

Yes I would…but I will never support mandating it for private sales..since the goal is registration of guns, the only way universal background checks could ever work…….to keep guns out of the hands of normal people…since criminals will never experience a background check before they get their illegal gun.

Criminals will simply use someone with a clean record to buy my individual gun…the same way they do for gun stores, gun shows. They will send in someone with a clean record to buy my gun…making the extra time, money and hassle pointless….

But…..as I have posted before…it will make "Transfers" of guns almost impossible….since the real goal is to make anytime a normal gun owner hands a gun to another person an illegal act without a background check…..

Since the anti gunners have changed the word "Sale" to "Transfer" in order to attack normal gun owners. That way if you want someone to watch your guns while you are on vacation….background check…and to pick up your guns from that person…background check….to let your friend try your gun at the range…background check….to take a gun safety class…background check…


The anti gunners cannot be trusted. They changed the word SALE…to TRANSFER for a reason……..and I have posted more in depth discussions of those reasons before…..and it has nothing to do with keeping guns out of the hands of criminals….

Their goal is registration…and later confiscation…….

You sell your gun to an intermediary who passed a background check, you are off the hook

Police come after you, you provide proof of a background check on John Doe at such and such an address .....Police go after John Doe and not you

Sounds fair doesn't it?

Nope……not my job…..requires universal registration….

You do know that Haynes v. United STates that actual criminals do not have to register their illegal guns ….right? So therefore normal gun owners will be protected by that same ruling…right?

If you can be prosecuted for selling guns to criminals you will MAKE it your job

If you are knowingly selling a gun…sure.

 

[Rouge Rover]

This is a great idea……increase the penalties for someone who steals a gun…the guy at Extranosalley suggests 5 years per gun no parole….perfect….I completely support this idea….steal 3 guns, 15 years no parole…..see how soon thugs stop stealing or spend more time in the clink…

There Is A Bill That Needs An Urgent Push | Extrano's Alley, more than a gun blog

he Dover, New Hampshire Democrat reports two New Hampshire lawmakers want to increase the penalty for the theft of a firearm.

Given that stolen guns enable some 360,000 gun related crimes a year, the usual “petty larceny” penalties for stealing a collection is woefully inadequate. My personal suggestion is five years per gun, with no probation or parole, ever. If someone steals three guns fifteen years is a moderate penalty compared to the potential lifetime criminal misuse of a gun will sentence a law abiding citizen to.

To the linked news story…..

N.H. bill would up punishment for stealing guns in burglary

CONCORD, N.H. (AP) — Two New Hampshire lawmakers are co-sponsoring a bill that makes the theft of a gun during a burglary a more serious crime with more jail time.The bill from Republican Al Baldasaro of Londonderry and Democrat Katherine Rogers of Concord would add "theft of a gun" to a list of crimes considered the worst of burglaries.It raises the punishment from a Class B felony to a Class A felony, which means convicts face an additional 20 years in jail for the theft. They say the approach is consistent with other New Hampshire laws that carry stiffer penalties for crimes committed when a gun is involved.The bill will be heard by the House Criminal Justice Committee on at 10:30 a.m. Wednesday in the Legislative Office Building.

How much do you want to bet anti gunners will fight this…..?

Isn't this really just the same thing as blaming the gun?

No….the criminal stole the gun…he committed theft. Lock him up.

What did the guns cost? In most cases will the value even amount to a felony? I'd rather lock people up for a long time for violent crime.

Stealing a gun and getting a 5 year sentence….I would say that I would be okay if that attached if you already had a criminal record. I would have to think about if it was a first offense of any kind. Those details can be hashed out here……

If you are a felon and you have a gun illegally……that should itself be a 10 year sentence…if it can be proven that you stole the gun…another 5……that works for me too...

From what I'm reading here you're focusing on the gun. I think that's the same as blaming the gun.

 

[M14 Shooter]

From what I'm reading here you're focusing on the gun. I think that's the same as blaming the gun.

He focued on the fact that the person used a gun; he blames the person.

 

[Rouge Rover]

From what I'm reading here you're focusing on the gun. I think that's the same as blaming the gun.

He focued on the fact that the person used a gun; he blames the person.

He's talking about obtaining the gun, not using it.

 

[M14 Shooter]

From what I'm reading here you're focusing on the gun. I think that's the same as blaming the gun.

He focued on the fact that the person used a gun; he blames the person.

He's talking about obtaining the gun, not using it.

Ah yes.
He focused on the fact that the person illegally obtained/possesses a gun; he blames the person.

 

[2aguy]

This is a great idea……increase the penalties for someone who steals a gun…the guy at Extranosalley suggests 5 years per gun no parole….perfect….I completely support this idea….steal 3 guns, 15 years no parole…..see how soon thugs stop stealing or spend more time in the clink…

There Is A Bill That Needs An Urgent Push | Extrano's Alley, more than a gun blog

he Dover, New Hampshire Democrat reports two New Hampshire lawmakers want to increase the penalty for the theft of a firearm.

Given that stolen guns enable some 360,000 gun related crimes a year, the usual “petty larceny” penalties for stealing a collection is woefully inadequate. My personal suggestion is five years per gun, with no probation or parole, ever. If someone steals three guns fifteen years is a moderate penalty compared to the potential lifetime criminal misuse of a gun will sentence a law abiding citizen to.

To the linked news story…..

N.H. bill would up punishment for stealing guns in burglary

CONCORD, N.H. (AP) — Two New Hampshire lawmakers are co-sponsoring a bill that makes the theft of a gun during a burglary a more serious crime with more jail time.The bill from Republican Al Baldasaro of Londonderry and Democrat Katherine Rogers of Concord would add "theft of a gun" to a list of crimes considered the worst of burglaries.It raises the punishment from a Class B felony to a Class A felony, which means convicts face an additional 20 years in jail for the theft. They say the approach is consistent with other New Hampshire laws that carry stiffer penalties for crimes committed when a gun is involved.The bill will be heard by the House Criminal Justice Committee on at 10:30 a.m. Wednesday in the Legislative Office Building.

How much do you want to bet anti gunners will fight this…..?

that won't prevent anything. sentences are a specific deterrant...not a general deterrant.

I have a better idea... don't give guns to spouse and child abusers and people convicted of violent crime....or people who are crazies.

gee...how do you keep that from happening? better gun registration and keeping people like you from buying/selling guns privately

Wrong……registration….please explain how that does what you say you want. We keep waiting for at least one anti gunner to explain that. And if a criminal can get past current background checks by stealing their gun, buying from another criminal, or using someone with a clean record…..how will forcing individual sellers to get background checks stop them? Since they can simply use the same straw buyer in an individual sale that they would use at a gun store.

Do you guys ever think through your ideas?

i'm always amused when the dimmest of posters tries to insult my intelligence.

idiota.... perhaps you should put down the NRA propaganda, stop shilling for gun manufacturers and start learning something.

I love you anti-gubmint, freedom loving types who hate laws unless they control something that isn't something you like.

Yeah…I never use NRA information outside of their links in "TheArmedCitizen." We don't hate laws. In fact we understand that actual laws make society civilized…we also know that you guys love to use the law to punish people you don't like…in this case gun owners. And we show time and time again how all of the laws you propose only effect normal gun owners and do nothing to stop actual criminals and mass shooters. Funny how you guys always end up doing that….

 

[2aguy]

i'm always amused when the dimmest of posters tries to insult my intelligence.

As expected, you continue to avoid the question
I will ask again:
How does registration prevent criminals from getting guns?

I've already answered it. so have other posters.

feel free to go back through my posts in this thread.

Actually, no you haven't….you simply keep stating…registering guns will stop criminals from getting them…and then fail to actually say how that will happen. And when it is pointed out that registration does not, in fact, do that…you fall back on "we have already answered that…"