Things we all can agree on

[Pop23]

Here's a list of things that I believe we all can agree on. I think these few things at least should be the main focus we take to others in order to try to make meaningful changes in our government.

1. $174,000 is too much compensation for congressmen. A more reasonable amount of compensation should be awarded for their efforts. I propose $60,000.

2. Holding the public trust should be treated as the honor that it used to be. Politicians are being caught with cocaine, committing perjury, and various other offenses against the public trust. Politicians must be prosecuted equally under the law, as the rest of us are.

3. Commercial contributions to campaigns must come to an end. Television ads, flyers, and other forms of advertising before elections and during campaigns must be paid for by private donations or a modest stipend of government funds.

4. Open ballots. The requirements that have been set by the Republicans and Democrats to appear on a ballot are rigged so that only those two parties can afford to be placed on a ballot. The requirements must be brought down so that legitimate third parties can receive more exposure to the general public and make elections fair.

#1 would cause more corruption, not less

 

[dcraelin]

The people find football and Snooki important. An initiative like that wouldn't work here. Unless the initiative were to raise food stamps.

I could see number 3 as a workable idea.

that is an unnecessarily cynical view......

If you don't trust the people to make good decisions then maybe we should set up an aristocracy with only people you approve at the head.

 

[Plasmaball]

Money in your wallet is great!

 

[Vox]

The people find football and Snooki important. An initiative like that wouldn't work here. Unless the initiative were to raise food stamps.

I could see number 3 as a workable idea.

that is an unnecessarily cynical view......

If you don't trust the people to make good decisions then maybe we should set up an aristocracy with only people you approve at the head.

well having tax census would be a good point to start. those which do not pay income taxes - lose their ability to vote.

 

[Avatar4321]

If you want to post a list and say we can all agree on it. I would recommend you find out whether everyone agrees on it first.

 

[dcraelin]

The people find football and Snooki important. An initiative like that wouldn't work here. Unless the initiative were to raise food stamps.
I could see number 3 as a workable idea.

that is an unnecessarily cynical view......If you don't trust the people to make good decisions then maybe we should set up an aristocracy with only people you approve at the head.

well having tax census would be a good point to start. those which do not pay income taxes - lose their ability to vote.

kind of like the old property qualifications huh...back in the days when we had slavery ..

I assure you they pay sales taxes, gas taxes and a lot of other taxes

 

[Missouri_Mike]

Here's a list of things that I believe we all can agree on. I think these few things at least should be the main focus we take to others in order to try to make meaningful changes in our government.

1. $174,000 is too much compensation for congressmen. A more reasonable amount of compensation should be awarded for their efforts. I propose $60,000.

2. Holding the public trust should be treated as the honor that it used to be. Politicians are being caught with cocaine, committing perjury, and various other offenses against the public trust. Politicians must be prosecuted equally under the law, as the rest of us are.

3. Commercial contributions to campaigns must come to an end. Television ads, flyers, and other forms of advertising before elections and during campaigns must be paid for by private donations or a modest stipend of government funds.

4. Open ballots. The requirements that have been set by the Republicans and Democrats to appear on a ballot are rigged so that only those two parties can afford to be placed on a ballot. The requirements must be brought down so that legitimate third parties can receive more exposure to the general public and make elections fair.

#1- I think it should be tied to the nations median income. It should also include a clause to keep them from increasing their self worth above that median income. How many politicians come to the job poor and leave millionaires? That needs to stop.

#2- Politicians crimes should be treated worse than these stupid hate crimes laws. Hate crime laws are just stupid and should be abolished but I would make an exception for a politician that get's caught doing what he shouldn't be doing and make the penalty so high they would never think of breaking the law.

#3- I'm guessing by commercial you mean business. Business get's to vote as well. You take the ability of them enriching their favorite politicians and there's no problem.

#4- I'm good with that, let the people decide.

 

[Rocko]

1. $174,000 is too much compensation for congressmen. A more reasonable amount of compensation should be awarded for their efforts. I propose $60,000.

Nope.

We pay them 60k and that's going to open the door wide open for corruption.

 

[Pheonixops]

So politicians should make $174,000 a year for the rest of their life? How is that justifiable? They pass laws that infringe on our rights and are rewarded with a base salary far above the average salary of any citizen? A ruling class is acceptable?

Damn! That's pretty good money. Do they make that for the rest of their lives if they only serve one term or do they have to be a member of Congress longer than that? Congressmen and women are elected by the constituents, maybe their constituents and their corporate backers want them to vote that way.

 

[OKTexas]

How about we just prosecute the assholes if they are caught in a verifiable lie, 5 years in the gray bar hotel should do it. That would change the political landscape in a hurry.

 

[ShawnChris13]

If you want to post a list and say we can all agree on it. I would recommend you find out whether everyone agrees on it first.

I didn't mean to over generalize. But do you honestly think that making over a million dollars in only base pay that they receive is fair? The average person makes a million in their lifetime. I think these four issues I posted are easily agreeable under the right circumstances. All we have to do is find the common ground that makes sense, define it as the proper behavior for holding the public trust, and tell as many people in the real world what we believe and try to make that change. What good is a forum for politics if all we do is bicker? Find the common sense we share and try our damnedest to make it happen. There are so many well educated people (the opposite is also true) on this forum that we can find the legal ground that the people entrusted with our rights, our laws and our liberty should stand on. Draw that line for them, that's our job as citizens. The government shouldn't be forcing us to not collect rainwater or have our meters blasting frequencies outside of our house constantly. They shouldn't dictate what garden were allowed to have or incarcerate us without charges or the right to face our accuser or due process. This message board should be at least one forum where great ideas meet and public discourse discussed with meaningful purpose.

 

[FA_Q2]

So politicians should make $174,000 a year for the rest of their life? How is that justifiable? They pass laws that infringe on our rights and are rewarded with a base salary far above the average salary of any citizen? A ruling class is acceptable?

Damn! That's pretty good money. Do they make that for the rest of their lives if they only serve one term or do they have to be a member of Congress longer than that? Congressmen and women are elected by the constituents, maybe their constituents and their corporate backers want them to vote that way.

No, they don’t make that the rest of their lives. There is a TON of misconception about congressional retirement pay. It is completely public as to what they make so those of you that think congressional retirement is insane should at least understand how it works:

http://www.senate.gov/CRSReports/crs-publish.cfm?pid='0E,*PLC8"@

Don’t get me wrong, it is a pretty sweet retirement plan but it should be a good plan. These are not the average McDonald workers that we are talking about. As much as I can’t stand congress, we DO want to attract good people as they are essentially controlling our lives. They are, after all, writing laws that have MAJOR effects on all of us.
The average earning per year (this is all senate data btw) comes out to 70K/40K depending on the system they belong to (CSRS or FERS). It is a pretty standard pension that has been modified to account for the fact that most senators/congressmen don’t spend an entire working carrier in office. It really is not common for a senator to last 30+ years. They also contribute to their pension plan.

 

[FA_Q2]

If you want to post a list and say we can all agree on it. I would recommend you find out whether everyone agrees on it first.

I didn't mean to over generalize. But do you honestly think that making over a million dollars in only base pay that they receive is fair? The average person makes a million in their lifetime. I think these four issues I posted are easily agreeable under the right circumstances. All we have to do is find the common ground that makes sense, define it as the proper behavior for holding the public trust, and tell as many people in the real world what we believe and try to make that change. What good is a forum for politics if all we do is bicker? Find the common sense we share and try our damnedest to make it happen. There are so many well educated people (the opposite is also true) on this forum that we can find the legal ground that the people entrusted with our rights, our laws and our liberty should stand on. Draw that line for them, that's our job as citizens. The government shouldn't be forcing us to not collect rainwater or have our meters blasting frequencies outside of our house constantly. They shouldn't dictate what garden were allowed to have or incarcerate us without charges or the right to face our accuser or due process. This message board should be at least one forum where great ideas meet and public discourse discussed with meaningful purpose.

Good post but I would tend to disagree with the premise. For starters, may of us have already pointed out that those 4 items are NOT agreed upon by any means. You are going to need to pick other itmens if you want agreement. Lets start with we all have to breath and gravity pulls us down. I THINK most can agree on that here. Well, maybe most

Yes, great ideas should meet here but not to be agreed upon. It is nice to agree and ideal if we start disagreeing and one side is swayed by logic and reason to agree in the end but really I think the true value to a place like this is the arguments themselves. For each person that responds and takes an argument to its conclusion there are a dozen others that read without comment. The value of this place for me is in those people seeing both sides of the arguments and, hopefully, coming to thoughtful and complete conclusions. Even more important to me is that here I get my ideas challenged over and over again so that I must improve and temper them or change them in the face of a better argument.

When we agree on something I (and the other readers) gain literally nothing. We finish where we start. If I came here and only talked about things I agreed with others on then I would not have changed one bit or grown at all. Specifically because of the strife here I have changed MANY of my positions and refined my arguments to be very strong (IMHO).

When I want to make actual change, I don’t go here. That is silly. There is nothing that I can do here that will affect any real change. Instead, I use the information here when I vote. I use the arguments I have refined to effect the minds of my friends and neighbors. I use the arguments gained here in local affairs.

When you want to effect change, get involved with your local political organizations. THAT is where you are going to find people that agree with you and come up with real plans to make real changes. Here, you come up with the arguments and the information that you are going to need to make those changes with those groups at your side.