They shoot children, don't they?

[theim]

No, what I am saying is that democracy cannot work with this generation of Iraqi's, because they don't want it. It is contrary to a lifetime of being taught the ways of the Qu'ran.

To be racist, I'd have to be saying it was genetics that made them unfit for democracy, I'm not. It is their culture that makes them extremely unlikely to accept democracy.

And I don't blame the Jews, I blame the Zionists for this whole mess. They just had to take back land they'd not owned for almost 2000 years in a part of the world where it was obvious they would not be accepted. If not for Israel being in Palastine this whole mess would not exist.

Wade.

Silly Jews, thinking they had a right to live in a tiny sliver of land in their ancestral homeland after the holocaust. If the Arabs hadn't tried to invade them then Isreal wouldn't have had to beat their asses and take Gaza and WB. I don't know what those Palestinians are all uptight about. It isn't like theres not another dozen theocratic Islamic dictatorships in that region for them to live in.

 

[wade]

Silly Jews, thinking they had a right to live in a tiny sliver of land in their ancestral homeland after the holocaust. If the Arabs hadn't tried to invade them then Isreal wouldn't have had to beat their asses and take Gaza and WB. I don't know what those Palestinians are all uptight about. It isn't like theres not another dozen theocratic Islamic dictatorships in that region for them to live in.

But that sliver of land was already occupied. Just because the Germans were evil to the Jews does not justify the Jews being evil to the Arabs.

They claim it is there ancestral home - but they really have no "proof". The Arabs living on the land however, did have proof, as they and their families had been living there for over 1000 years.

When someone comes and steals the lands that your family has been living on for 30+ generations and says "I don't know what you're all uptite about, there are pleanty of other places you can live" lets see how you respond.

Wade.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

But that sliver of land was already occupied. Just because the Germans were evil to the Jews does not justify the Jews being evil to the Arabs.

They claim it is there ancestral home - but they really have no "proof". The Arabs living on the land however, did have proof, as they and their families had been living there for over 1000 years.

When someone comes and steals the lands that your family has been living on for 30+ generations and says "I don't know what you're all uptite about, there are pleanty of other places you can live" lets see how you respond.

Wade.

Every land invasion was wrong. Let's undo them all, all throughout history.

Get over your leftist self, wade. Your mind is a quagmire of ridiculousness. I don't see how sense can prevail. You'd better pull out.

 

[Zhukov]

They claim it is there ancestral home - but they really have no "proof". The Arabs living on the land however, did have proof, as they and their families had been living there for over 1000 years.

Are you seriously saying you don't believe the jews were there first?

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Perhaps. Alternatively we could think forms of government that will be acceptable to the existing generation and allow the next generation to learn enough to desire democracy.

The very existence of Israel is not acceptable to them. You know that.

 

[Zhukov]

I don't know what those Palestinians are all uptight about. It isn't like theres not another dozen theocratic Islamic dictatorships in that region for them to live in.

There aren't. Those dictatroships actively deny the refugees entrance into their countries because as long as there exists a 'palestinian problem' they can continue to condemn Israel for being an oppressive occupying force.

 

[dilloduck]

Are you seriously saying you don't believe the jews were there first?

http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/2938/histcult.html
Ethno-Cultural & Linguistic Origins

While the origins of the Sumerians, whose language appears related to no known linguistic family, remain a mystery, the other people of the region were chiefly Semites - Canaanites (the Levant), Amorites (southwestern desert people), Akkadians and Assyrians (Mesopotamia), Arameans, Habiru (Hebrews) and Bedu (Beduin Arabs of the southern desert). The languages of these groups are closely related, and also related more distantly to Hamitic languages, which include ancient Egyptian, Coptic, and Ethiopian.

Throughout the Bronze Age there was a sporadic influx of nomads from Arabia into the area, hostile at first, but soon incorporated into the existing culture. Later, Indo-European peoples migrated into the area. Among them were the Hurrians, who moved from Turkey in the North to Iraq in the 3rd milleneum BCE and brought the light horse-drawn chariot and composite bow to the Levant. Another group sailing from the West were the so-called "Sea Peoples," whose origin is still unknown, but who were probably north-eastern European. The various Indo-Europeans intermingled with and were absorbed into the Semitic cultures, an exception being the Persians who maintain their Indo-European culture and language up to this day.

2. Cities founded by Canaanites/ Phoenicians

Most of these ancient cities are still inhabited, or newer towns have been built near the mounds (tells) covering the ancient ones.


INLAND:
Syria - Charchemish; Arslan Tash; Ebla (2500-2250 BCE) Aleppo; Hamath; Qadesh; Damascus;
Israel / Palestine - Hazor; Megiddo (Armageddon); Bethshan; Gezer; Shechem; Jericho; Jerusalem; Hebron; Beer-Sheba
COASTAL:
Syria - Ugarit = Ras Shamra (2000-1200 BCE) main temples to Baal & Dagon; Arad = Ruad; Marathus = Amrit; Simyra;
Lebanon - Tri-polis; Gebal = Byblos (now Jebail) - major trade port with ancient Egypt; Beryt(us) = Beirut; Tsydon = Sidon; Tsyr = Tyre (now Sur); Sarepta;
Israel / Palestine - Akko = Acr*; Dor; Joppa = Jaffa, Haifa; Ashkelon; Gaza; Ezion-Geber (on the Red Sea)


maybe not first?

 

[Zhukov]

maybe not first?

Between the two.

 

[dilloduck]

Between the two.

between the two tribes ? They are all Semitic. Pretty hard to make any differentiation. I know of no way to settle land disputes other than by treaty between the two parties or a military victory. Being the first doesn't hold much water.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

between the two tribes ? They are all Semitic. Pretty hard to make any differentiation.

So how do you know they WEREN'T there first? Not that it matters to me, but others seem hung up on it.

 

[Zhukov]

Between the jews and the so-called palestinians.

Pretty hard to make any differentiation.

They don't seem to think so.

I know of no way to settle land disputes other than by treaty between the two parties or a military victory.

No argument there.

I'm wouldn't and didn't say being first entitles them to anything, I'm just saying that they were there before the moslems.

 

[dilloduck]

Between the jews and the so-called palestinians.



They don't seem to think so.



No argument there.

I'm wouldn't and didn't say being first entitles them to anything, I'm just saying that they were there before the moslems.

ok I gotcha---the Jewish religion was there first ! ( Didn't Judaism officially begin in Egypt )

 

[wade]

Between the jews and the so-called palestinians.

I'm wouldn't and didn't say being first entitles them to anything, I'm just saying that they were there before the moslems.

But the Jews were not there "before the Arabs". The Arabs are, as best I can tell, decendants of the same peoples as the Jews, simply not descended from Abraham. Abrahman defined a new tribe and went his own way, leaving the rest of his tribe behind. That tribe later became what we now call the Arabs.

As for who was there first - it was the Ketamites (however it's spelled), who were there when the "chosen" were led by Moses to the "promised land", and who were wiped out man, woman, and child.

What we do KNOW for a fact is that Arabs who'd had their homes on specific lands for a thousand years had that land stolen out from under them by the Zionists when the state of Israel was created. We also know that this is contrary to US stated policy concerning world borders after WWII - no change of borders by force is to be condoned.

My point is, the Jews have no proof they ever held the land. To have such proof, they have to be able to say, at the very least, "my relative so-and-so lived right here". They cannot do this. The claim is invalid in every legal respect!

The Zionist claim is aburd. It is bascially - "my great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandfather lived somewhere in this general area, so this plot here rightfully is mine, get off it or I'll kill you - you squatter!"

Pretty silly huh?

Wade.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

well the jews have learned to live by the rules of every society they went to and done so quite well . The arabs stayed in one place and became ethnocentric and intolerant. So that's why I choose the jews.

 

[dilloduck]

well the jews have learned to live by the rules of every society they went to and done so quite well . The arabs stayed in one place and became ethnocentric and intolerant. So that's why I choose the jews.

RW--there are arabs living all over the world!

 

[Zhukov]

ok I gotcha---the Jewish religion was there first ! ( Didn't Judaism officially begin in Egypt )

No idea. I don't think that's the story.

But the Jews were not there "before the Arabs". The Arabs are, as best I can tell, decendants of the same peoples as the Jews, simply not descended from Abraham. Abrahman defined a new tribe and went his own way, leaving the rest of his tribe behind. That tribe later became what we now call the Arabs.

As for who was there first - it was the Ketamites (however it's spelled), who were there when the "chosen" were led by Moses to the "promised land", and who were wiped out man, woman, and child.

That therefore makes the jews the first group of people there who are still extant, and therefore, logically, they were there before the so-called palestinians.

 

[dilloduck]

No idea. I don't think that's the story.




That therefore makes the jews the first group of people there who are still extant, and therefore, logically, they were there before the so-called palestinians.

Which would logically make the USA Indian Land

 

[Zhukov]

Which would logically make the USA Indian Land

No because, again, I never claimed the jews were entitled to anything for being there first.

The land that currently makes up the U.S. did once belong to others, but we killed most of them and evicted the rest and so now it's ours.

If the Arab's all join together and wipe out the jews and take their land, so be it. They don't seem to be able to though, try as they might.

 

[5stringJeff]

We also know that this is contrary to US stated policy concerning world borders after WWII - no change of borders by force is to be condoned.

My point is, the Jews have no proof they ever held the land. To have such proof, they have to be able to say, at the very least, "my relative so-and-so lived right here". They cannot do this. The claim is invalid in every legal respect!

Except for the fact that the UN sanctioned the creation of Israel. So it was legal, and not accomplished by force - except for the small invasion of Israel by 5 neighboring countries that got their asses kicked by the infant nation.

 

[dmp]

Except for the fact that the UN sanctioned the creation of Israel. So it was legal, and not accomplished by force - except for the small invasion of Israel by 5 neighboring countries that got their asses kicked by the infant nation.

Right - it's a clear case of "bullies attack a newbie country, taking some of their land. Newbie country kicks them out of their land, and takes a bit MORE than they had to begin with. Bullies start boo-hoo'ing and strapping bombs to children and women abord newbie-country busses. And there are SOME people who agree with that practice..."