These Are The People dems Want To Have A Cease Fire For

[Silver Cat]

For example?

Obama's direct speech in Jan, 2015:
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Last year, as we were doing the hard work of imposing sanctions along with our allies, as we were reinforcing our presence with frontline states, Mr. Putin’s aggression it was suggested was a masterful display of strategy and strength. That's what I heard from some folks. Well, today, it is America that stands strong and united with our allies, while Russia is isolated with its economy in tatters. That’s how America leads -- not with bluster, but with persistent, steady resolve. (Applause.)
---------

Remarks by the President in State of the Union Address | January 20, 2015

U.S. Capitol Washington, D.C.

obamawhitehouse.archives.gov

 

[AntonToo]

Obama's direct speech in Jan, 2015:
-------------
Last year, as we were doing the hard work of imposing sanctions along with our allies, as we were reinforcing our presence with frontline states, Mr. Putin’s aggression it was suggested was a masterful display of strategy and strength. That's what I heard from some folks. Well, today, it is America that stands strong and united with our allies, while Russia is isolated with its economy in tatters. That’s how America leads -- not with bluster, but with persistent, steady resolve. (Applause.)
---------

Remarks by the President in State of the Union Address | January 20, 2015

U.S. Capitol Washington, D.C.

obamawhitehouse.archives.gov

And? Obama (a politician) overstated the damage to Russian economy. But as a matter effect Russia was in recession for two years following their Crimean misadventure and this time sactions and casualties are on completely different scale.

Putin is desparate to go down in history as another Peter the Great, but it's the little people that bare the costs of his impearialist delusions. His place in history will be of yet another addicted to power dictator.

 

[Silver Cat]

And? Obama (a politician) overstated the damage to Russian economy. But as a matter effect Russia was in recession for two years following their Crimean misadventure and this time sactions and casualties are on completely different scale.

Putin is desparate to go down in history as another Peter the Great, but it's the little people that bare the costs of his impearialist delusions. His place in history will be of yet another addicted to power dictator.

Oh, man... Russia allied with China (as well as many other countries) is unbeatable economically. China, allied with Russia is unbeatable militarily. And that's the root of of the problem. We need to find the angle, not just self-comforting ourselves with mantras about how our enemies are weak.

 

[AntonToo]

Oh, man... Russia allied with China (as well as many other countries) is unbeatable economically.

Russia economically was about the size of Spain or Texas in terms of GDP...it's smaller now. Unbeatable? Someone took you for a ride.

Sure China will keep on buying cheapened Russian resources, but if you think they are going to risk seriously turning off EU and America then you simply don't understand how tiny Russia's bussiness is worth to China compared to those markets.

One of the problems with Russian propaganda is that the propagandists themselfs start to belive all the self-important bullshit.

 

[Silver Cat]

Russia economically was about the size of Spain or Texas in terms of GDP...it's smaller now. Unbeatable? Someone took you for a ride.

Sure China will keep on buying cheapened Russian resources, but if you think they are going to risk seriously turning off EU and America then you simply don't understand how tiny Russia's bussiness is worth to China compared to those markets.

One of the problems with Russian propaganda is that the propagandists themselfs start to belive all the self-important bullshit.

You guys don't read books nowadays, do you? You watch YouTube, I suppose.


Anyway, the question of GDP, even GDP by PPP, is not something actually meaningful. All those virtual dollars are not even colored papers, they are just ones and zeroes somewhere in bank computers.
But to survive in this challenging world we need something more than virtual ones and zeroes. We need actual capabilities. We need industry. Russia alone build more tanks in a week than all NATO countries combined in a year. And "economy of lawyers and whores" can't neither produce tanks, nor defend itself.
China is doing their business and doing it quite well. But in our challenging world one need a protection racket to be sure, that his money won't be stolen for some stupid reason. China pays Russia for protection and it's working.

 

[AntonToo]

You guys don't read books nowadays, do you? You watch YouTube, I suppose.


Anyway, the question of GDP, even GDP by PPP, is not something actually meaningful. All those virtual dollars are not even colored papers, they are just ones and zeroes somewhere in bank computers.
But to survive in this challenging world we need something more than virtual ones and zeroes. We need actual capabilities. We need industry. Russia alone build more tanks

Colored papers....GDP does not matter....tanks are the measure of economy...?

That’s is just laughable, ignorant stupid nonsense.

But of course thats the sort bullshit you have to buy into to rationalize the self-inflicted clusterfuck Russia finds itself in today.

 

[AntonToo]

BRICS opposition would not be G7 silly, its NATO (38 Trillion GDP).

Not only that, the comparison itself is irrelevant, BRICS is not at war with NATO.

Russia is at war by itself and unlike Ukraine that is supported by 50 countries, including American Land Lease program, Russia has to BUY everything it gets from their Chinese "friends".

 

[Silver Cat]

BRICS opposition would not be G7 silly, its NATO (38 Trillion GDP).

Not only that, the comparison itself is irrelevant, BRICS is not at war with NATO.

Russia is at war by itself and unlike Ukraine that is supported by 50 countries, including American Land Lease program, Russia has to BUY everything it gets from their Chinese "friends".

You see, technically, even Russia is not at war. It's a special military operation for them. In reality, it's a proxy war between G7+ vs BRICS+. Yes, they do buy. But what are terms of that buying? In fact, Russian economy is not destroyed. In fact, in the terms of the actual capability to make real tanks, it's in the pretty good shape.

At war, reality doesn't compare ability to write ones and zeroes in the bank computers. At war, one needs actual tanks, actual nukes and actual ships to survive and win.

 

[AntonToo]

You see, technically, even Russia is not at war. It's a special military operation for them. In reality, it's a proxy war between G7+ vs BRICS+.

It's illegal in Russia to wage an agressive war, which is why Putin uses euphanisms like "special operation".

Russians like you, that repeat that bullshit are either Kremlin shills or plain stupid.

It's a brutal, bloody, city leveling war. A war between Russia and a country it invaded - Ukraine. The rest is just pathetic excuses, rationalizations and denial of the obvious.

 

[Silver Cat]

It's illegal in Russia to wage an agressive war, which is why Putin uses euphanisms like "special operation".

"Agressive war" is illegal in Russia, yes. But, from the Russian point of view, it was Ukraine, who attacked Russian allies - DPR and LPR and, therefore, attacked Russia herself. So, if it escalate to the levels of "local war", "regional war" or "large-scale war", it will be defensive war, anyway.

Russians like you, that repeat that bullshit are either Kremlin shills or plain stupid.

It's a brutal, bloody, city leveling war. A war between Russia and a country it invaded - Ukraine. The rest is just pathetic excuses, rationalizations and denial of the obvious.

Wow... Man, you don't have even a slightest idea, what is "brutal, bloody, city leveling war" by Russian (or American) standards. For starters it should be fought with the nuclear weapons.

 

[AntonToo]

"Agressive war" is illegal in Russia, yes. But, from the Russian point of view, it was Ukraine, who attacked Russian allies - DPR and LPR

DPR and LPR are internationally recognized as Ukraine and that has never changed.

Since 2019 casualties of the hostilities in Donbas were about 20 people a year. There was no escalation, on the contrary, the conflict was freezing up.

And the whole "we are defending LNR DNR" bullshit would be a little more believable if Russia would move it's army to just those territories. Instead Russia atacked from four directions, tried to take over Kiev and annexed Kherson, Zaporizhzhia, LNR, DNR.

Again, have to be straight stupid to belive Russia's excuses for invasion. Use your head.

 

[AntonToo]

Wow... Man, you don't have even a slightest idea, what is "brutal, bloody, city leveling war" by Russian (or American) standards. For starters it should be fought with the nuclear weapons.

According to your idiotic logic Nazi Germany never waged a war in Europe and Russia because they didn't fight with nuclear weapons.

Any sane person knows a war when they see it and you are fool for trading in basic common sense for uncritical propaganda consumption.

 

[francoHFW]

Fucking Animals. Left use violence same as Burn Loot & Murder.

DNC are a Cancer on this country

Those are not Democrats, brainwashed functional moron

 

[Silver Cat]

DPR and LPR are internationally recognized as Ukraine and that has never changed.

As well as Israel, Russia doesn't care about international recognition of their actions, necessary for their safety.

Since 2019 casualties of the hostilities in Donbas were about 20 people a year. There was no escalation, on the contrary, the conflict was freezing up.

There were Ukrainian preparations for the attack, and, what is more important - their deeper integration with NATO countries. Including, of course, a visit of B-52 in Ukrainian airspace at the fall of 2021.

And the whole "we are defending LNR DNR" bullshit would be a little more believable if Russia would move it's army to just those territories. Instead Russia atacked from four directions, tried to take over Kiev and annexed Kherson, Zaporizhzhia, LNR, DNR.

Of course, they are not just defend LNR and DPR. They defend Russian people in the whole Ukraine, and they are going to prevent Ukraine in NATO situation, and, therefore, they need to eliminate Kievan regime.

Again, have to be straight stupid to belive Russia's excuses for invasion. Use your head.

Their excuses are ok. But their official goals are a bit wider. They are

• in Ukraine: denazification, demilitarisation, neutral status.
• in Europe: return of NATO military infrastructure to the borders of 1997, withdrawal of American tactical nuclear weapons from Europe.
• in the world: end of Pax Americana, build the new worlds order, which must be better for Russia and Russia's allies.

Anyway, the issue is not about if they are good or bad (it's irrelevant). The real question is - was Israel's support of Ukraine, and attempt to defeat Russia (including distraction of intelligence resources from controlling neighborhood) wise or not?

 

[Silver Cat]

According to your idiotic logic Nazi Germany never waged a war in Europe and Russia because they didn't fight with nuclear weapons. 

Back in 1939-45 they fought with all what they have. That was a war. "Guns instead of butter" and so on.

Any sane person knows a war when they see it and you are fool for trading in basic common sense for uncritical propaganda consumption.

And the basic common sense is that the war, is the level of the violence, which involves the whole state, it's the challenge, that can end the very existence of the people, and, therefore, all possible forces are unleashed.

There are different levels of violence in the Russian military doctrine:

• military conflict,
• local war,
• regional war,
• large-scale war.

Russian Special Military Operation is quite close to a "local war", but it is still a "military conflict".

 

[Silver Cat]

The buildings can be easily rebuild, and they do rebuild them:

People are important. And they liberated millions of their kind.

 

[AntonToo]

Back in 1939-45 they fought with all what they have. That was a war.

Dummy, just because Russia doesn't want to instantly turn the whole world against it by using nuclear weapons does not mean it's not at war.

You sound crazy, like most Russian state media consuming dupes.

 

[AntonToo]

The buildings can be easily rebuild, and they do rebuild them:

People are important. And they liberated millions of their kind.

LIBERATED?

You fucking idiot, Russian invasion "liberated" 25,000-100,000 people in that city alone FROM THEIR VERY LIVES.

Those that didn't get killed were almost entirely "liberated" from their homes, since 90% of city buildings and 60% of private homes were destroyed.

Pre Russian invasion 430,000 people lived there, less than 130,000 still remained there by the time Russian World demolished their city.


Behold the special liberation operation.

 

[Silver Cat]

Dummy, just because Russia doesn't want to instantly turn the whole world against it by using nuclear weapons does not mean it's not at war.

Ok. What is "war"? Let's read Wikipedia.
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War is an intense armed conflict[a] between states, governments, societies, or paramilitary groups such as mercenaries, insurgents, and militias. It is generally characterized by extreme violence, destruction, and mortality, using regular or irregular military forces.

-----------
What are the most important words of the definition?
intense and extreme.

The number of casualties during a "war" must be much higher than one during a "peace-time operation".

Russia had lost more than 20 million killed in four years - 1941-1945. It was a war.

Russia hardly lost more than 0.1 million killed in two years 2022-23. It's definitely not a war. It's a mere military operation. And, the population of Russia increased, not decreased in those years.

 

[Silver Cat]

LIBERATED?

You fucking idiot, Russian invasion "liberated" 25,000-100,000 people in that city alone FROM THEIR VERY LIVES.

Those that didn't get killed were almost entirely "liberated" from their homes, since 90% of city buildings and 60% of private homes were destroyed.

Pre Russian invasion 430,000 people lived there, less than 130,000 still remained there by the time Russian World demolished their city.


Behold the special liberation operation.

And many of those (especially ethnic Russians) returned back, when the normal life was restored. There is the difference - to be poor and live under oppressive Kievan regime, which don't even allow you to speak your own language, or to become rich and live without discrimination. It's not a big problem to build new buildings.
What is important - for many people in Marioupol, Soledar, Bakhmut, now in Avdiivka, it's much more safe to stay in the shelled city and wait for liberation by Russian forces, than be evacuated and live (not for long) at Kiev-controlled territoires.