There never was a free market in Healthcare

[TakeAStepBack]

Health insurance.....any insurance.....is pure socialism. Except it's done by a corporation with shareholders instead of a central government.

When a carrier takes a hit for a claim what do they do, if they pay it or not? They pass the losses amongst their pool of policy holders. They don't take the hit even though they may have collected 1000 times what that claim may be. THEY SPREAD THE LOSSES AROUND....and keep the premiums.

You should hear the bitching up here from the people in southeast PA whose property insurance has skyrocketed even though their homes were not affected by Sandy last year. Go anywhere in the country where there has been a natural disaster. The insurance companies are NOT taking the hit. The policy holders are.

Insurance is the biggest fraud ever and health insurance is the worst form of this fraud because a consumer can choose to own a home, car, boat, commercial business, etc. But you cannot choose to be born.


Your house: Average home owner.

Their house: Hartford Insurance headquarters, Hartford, CT

Who's getting fucked here?

Up until Obama Tax, health insurance was not mandatory. Which means its not socialist. Ther eis a giant difference between mandatory and voluntary procurement of an insurance policy. So, you're wrong about it being socialism. Not to mention socialism is a form of government control. Equating it to a market force is entirely ignorant.

 

[Dot Com]

changed my siggie welchboi

As to the OP, continue fluffing the medical industrial complex

O'care..... errr.....Heritagecare by another name that is, has only been active for a week. Come November, even more people will be signed-up & glad they did. No pre-existing condition exclusions, insurance co's must use at least 85% of premiums on actual HC, etc...

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

There are people who believe in capitalism not scientifically but as religion.

Trying to explain to those FAITH BASED CAPITALISTS that the usual concept of market forces in health care makes no sense is beyond their self imposed limited ability to understand.

I suspect that's because those loyal faith based capitalists don't really understand market forces, or for matter, capitalism, either.

I know a LOT of people like this.

People who are basically intelligent and knowledgeable until the issue of economics comes up. Then they revert to faith rather than logic to grasp their world view.


They are not stupid, they are ignorant and they are ignorant because they count on FAITH instead of facts to guide their thinking.

As opposed to those who put their faith in ever more government control?

 

[dblack]

Health insurance.....any insurance.....is pure socialism. Except it's done by a corporation with shareholders instead of a central government.

Socialism is a form of government and leverages the coercive power of the compulsive state. Private insurance, corporate or otherwise, is a voluntary agreement and not coercive (unless we get into the bastardization of insurance created by ACA, which IS coercive).

having Americans be "one illness away from bankruptcy" is better in your opinion?

Medical Bills Are the Biggest Cause of US Bankruptcies

All this idiocy presupposes EMTALA mandates. And is exacerbated by health care costs inflated by our delusional expectations. "No one should be denied health care for financial reasons" is a comforting bromide, but ultimately nonsense. The simple fact is, all of us will face the day when we run out of gas, when we no longer have the health, wealth or good luck required to keep on living.

I really don't know where we sold ourselves on this fairly tale that health care is somehow sacrosanct, that it, above all our other needs (food, shelter, clothing, etc ...) should be held above financial consideration. I think it had something to do with enshrining doctors and de facto priests or somesuch. But we need to get over it, and grow up. We have to pay for our health care just like we have to pay for everything else we want and need. Either that, or we have to consent to being wards of the state and console ourselves to being treated as such.

 

[Dot Com]

Socialism is a form of government and leverages the coercive power of the compulsive state. Private insurance, corporate or otherwise, is a voluntary agreement and not coercive (unless we get into the bastardization of insurance created by ACA, which IS coercive).

having Americans be "one illness away from bankruptcy" is better in your opinion?

Medical Bills Are the Biggest Cause of US Bankruptcies

All this idiocy presupposes EMTALA mandates. And is exacerbated by health care costs inflated by our delusional expectations. "No one should be denied health care for financial reasons" is a comforting bromide, but ultimately nonsense. The simple fact is, all of us will face the day when we run out of gas, when we no longer have the health, wealth or good luck required to keep on living.

I really don't know where we sold ourselves on this fairly tale that health care is somehow sacrosanct, that it, above all our other needs (food, shelter, clothing, etc ...) should be held above financial consideration. I think it had something to do with enshrining doctors and de facto priests or somesuch. But we need to get over it, and grow up. We have to pay for our health care just like we have to pay for everything else we want and need. Either that, or we have to consent to being wards of the state and console ourselves to being treated as such.

...which requires wondering why people like the gov of Florida could take a bath in a golden bathtub because they were using premiums NOT for HC but for enriching themselves for being no more than glorified actuaries. THIS is why 85% of premiums MUST be used for actual HC services as opposed to CEO platinum bonus'

 

[dblack]

having Americans be "one illness away from bankruptcy" is better in your opinion?

Medical Bills Are the Biggest Cause of US Bankruptcies

All this idiocy presupposes EMTALA mandates. And is exacerbated by health care costs inflated by our delusional expectations. "No one should be denied health care for financial reasons" is a comforting bromide, but ultimately nonsense. The simple fact is, all of us will face the day when we run out of gas, when we no longer have the health, wealth or good luck required to keep on living.

I really don't know where we sold ourselves on this fairly tale that health care is somehow sacrosanct, that it, above all our other needs (food, shelter, clothing, etc ...) should be held above financial consideration. I think it had something to do with enshrining doctors and de facto priests or somesuch. But we need to get over it, and grow up. We have to pay for our health care just like we have to pay for everything else we want and need. Either that, or we have to consent to being wards of the state and console ourselves to being treated as such.

...which requires wondering why people like the gov of Florida could take a bath in a golden bathtub because they were using premiums NOT for HC but for enriching themselves for being no more than glorified actuaries. THIS is why 85% of premiums MUST be used for actual HC services as opposed to CEO platinum bonus'

Huh???

 

[Dot Com]

All this idiocy presupposes EMTALA mandates. And is exacerbated by health care costs inflated by our delusional expectations. "No one should be denied health care for financial reasons" is a comforting bromide, but ultimately nonsense. The simple fact is, all of us will face the day when we run out of gas, when we no longer have the health, wealth or good luck required to keep on living.

I really don't know where we sold ourselves on this fairly tale that health care is somehow sacrosanct, that it, above all our other needs (food, shelter, clothing, etc ...) should be held above financial consideration. I think it had something to do with enshrining doctors and de facto priests or somesuch. But we need to get over it, and grow up. We have to pay for our health care just like we have to pay for everything else we want and need. Either that, or we have to consent to being wards of the state and console ourselves to being treated as such.

...which requires wondering why people like the gov of Florida could take a bath in a golden bathtub because they were using premiums NOT for HC but for enriching themselves for being no more than glorified actuaries. THIS is why 85% of premiums MUST be used for actual HC services as opposed to CEO platinum bonus'

Huh???

what do you not get?

 

[dblack]

...which requires wondering why people like the gov of Florida could take a bath in a golden bathtub because they were using premiums NOT for HC but for enriching themselves for being no more than glorified actuaries. THIS is why 85% of premiums MUST be used for actual HC services as opposed to CEO platinum bonus'

Huh???

what do you not get?

What your post means, what it has to do with my comment, what the governor of Florida has to do with anything, what you're talking about.

 

[Dot Com]

Huh???

what do you not get?

What your post means, what it has to do with my comment, what the governor of Florida has to do with anything, what you're talking about.

this is your comment:

health care costs inflated by our delusional expectations

costs "get inflated" by other means as well such as lavish compensation for insurance industrial complex CEOs. You know what the gov of florida's previous occupation was?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Scott#Columbia.2FHCA_fraud

 

[Listening]

changed my siggie welchboi

As to the OP, continue fluffing the medical industrial complex

O'care..... errr.....Heritagecare by another name that is, has only been active for a week. Come November, even more people will be signed-up & glad they did. No pre-existing condition exclusions, insurance co's must use at least 85% of premiums on actual HC, etc...

Come November, about 100,000,000 people are going to hear a great deal about how they are next on the list to keep their health care...but still lose it.

The democrats will get their asses kicked.

People will have already died thanks to Obama.

Thanks for changing your sig. I'd be more flattered if you were someone people actually took seriously. As it is, you and Chris are neck and neck for being the board clowns.

 

[National Socialist]

Why is that bullshit? Do you think people should get things without paying for them?

The state should pay for ALL medical care and it should be EQUAL medical care for EVERYONE. You should not get to live because you are rich and can afford it and I am poor and can't.

If the state is supposed to pay for all healthcare, then why shouldn't it pay for all food, all housing, all clothing, all transportation and all entertainment? What makes healthcare special?

Where does it end? An artificial heart costs $500,000. Should everyone be entitled to that? How about plastic surgery? Are you entitled to an artificial knee joint?

He thinks the state should decide who gets better health care.

No I think the state should make sure ALL citizens get EQUAL healthcare.

Why? What entitles you to anymore healthcare than you can pay for?

State should make sure each and every citizen has a decent level of living. Free healthcare,free NEEDED utilities,water/electricity/gas for heat etc. Free education.

Well I'd like to amend my previous post if I might: We'd all get equally crappy care, except for the members of the State and their favored cronies. They'd get superior care. Should have made that distinction.

So your argument is that those countries are completely socialist as you advocate?

Nope but their healthcare is.

NS thinks that everyone gets the same level of healthcare in England, France and Germany. Apparently he isn't aware of the fact that these countries have a two-tiered system. There's the crappy socialized healthcare for the average joe, but the rich pay for private healthcare which is far superior. So even the system he endorses doesn't produce the result he desires.

Funny how that works.

I said most of Europe so far you named 2 of what? 50 countries? Fact remains those countries are FAR more advanced in healthcare and education than the US is.

No, that's not a fact. Their healthcare is far worse than ours.

Prove it. I guarantee its better than here.

 

[Harry Dresden]

The state should pay for ALL medical care and it should be EQUAL medical care for EVERYONE. You should not get to live because you are rich and can afford it and I am poor and can't.

If the state is supposed to pay for all healthcare, then why shouldn't it pay for all food, all housing, all clothing, all transportation and all entertainment? What makes healthcare special?

Where does it end? An artificial heart costs $500,000. Should everyone be entitled to that? How about plastic surgery? Are you entitled to an artificial knee joint?


Why? What entitles you to anymore healthcare than you can pay for?

State should make sure each and every citizen has a decent level of living. Free healthcare,free NEEDED utilities,water/electricity/gas for heat etc. Free education.

Nope but their healthcare is.


I said most of Europe so far you named 2 of what? 50 countries? Fact remains those countries are FAR more advanced in healthcare and education than the US is.

No, that's not a fact. Their healthcare is far worse than ours.

Prove it. I guarantee its better than here.

where is your proof that they are 100 years ahead of us medically?...you are the one who said it....more than once....but i just could not find anything backing that up....

 

[dblack]

State should make sure each and every citizen has a decent level of living. Free healthcare,free NEEDED utilities,water/electricity/gas for heat etc. Free education.

Really? Should I have to do any work in exchange for these guaranteed services?