There never was a free market in Healthcare

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Fine with me. The rich do not deserve better care because they can afford it. Amazing how you refuse to even entertain the thought of first class healthcare in a socialist society. NS Germany had it,they made extraordinary advances in medicine,MOST European countries have it and they are far more advanced than the US is and their people are healthier and live longer.

Well I'd like to amend my previous post if I might: We'd all get equally crappy care, except for the members of the State and their favored cronies. They'd get superior care. Should have made that distinction.

So your argument is that those countries are completely socialist as you advocate?

 

[Dot Com]

Why is that bullshit? Do you think people should get things without paying for them?

The state should pay for ALL medical care and it should be EQUAL medical care for EVERYONE. You should not get to live because you are rich and can afford it and I am poor and can't.

He thinks the state should decide who gets better health care.

No I think the state should make sure ALL citizens get EQUAL healthcare.

Well you could easily get your wish. We could all get equally crappy care if the state took over completely.

let me guess, you're a libertarian.

Israel is suffering through Universal HC as we speak.

 

[bripat9643]

Fine with me. The rich do not deserve better care because they can afford it. Amazing how you refuse to even entertain the thought of first class healthcare in a socialist society. NS Germany had it,they made extraordinary advances in medicine,MOST European countries have it and they are far more advanced than the US is and their people are healthier and live longer.

Well I'd like to amend my previous post if I might: We'd all get equally crappy care, except for the members of the State and their favored cronies. They'd get superior care. Should have made that distinction.

So your argument is that those countries are completely socialist as you advocate?

NS thinks that everyone gets the same level of healthcare in England, France and Germany. Apparently he isn't aware of the fact that these countries have a two-tiered system. There's the crappy socialized healthcare for the average joe, but the rich pay for private healthcare which is far superior. So even the system he endorses doesn't produce the result he desires.

Funny how that works.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Health insurance.....any insurance.....is pure socialism. Except it's done by a corporation with shareholders instead of a central government.

When a carrier takes a hit for a claim what do they do, if they pay it or not? They pass the losses amongst their pool of policy holders. They don't take the hit even though they may have collected 1000 times what that claim may be. THEY SPREAD THE LOSSES AROUND....and keep the premiums.

You should hear the bitching up here from the people in southeast PA whose property insurance has skyrocketed even though their homes were not affected by Sandy last year. Go anywhere in the country where there has been a natural disaster. The insurance companies are NOT taking the hit. The policy holders are.

Insurance is the biggest fraud ever and health insurance is the worst form of this fraud because a consumer can choose to own a home, car, boat, commercial business, etc. But you cannot choose to be born.


Your house: Average home owner.

Their house: Hartford Insurance headquarters, Hartford, CT

Who's getting fucked here?

I was going to say, "Are you serious?"

But then I remembered you really are that dumb.

 

[Contumacious]

The present fix is worse than the problem

Correctomundo.

In addition to the Constitutional violations ; we can extrapolate from what the misery which is being caused by socialized medicine in other countries.

.

Yeah I can see people in other countries crying about this:

Nothing prevents you from moving to Australia .

.

 

[bripat9643]

Health insurance.....any insurance.....is pure socialism. Except it's done by a corporation with shareholders instead of a central government.

When a carrier takes a hit for a claim what do they do, if they pay it or not? They pass the losses amongst their pool of policy holders. They don't take the hit even though they may have collected 1000 times what that claim may be. THEY SPREAD THE LOSSES AROUND....and keep the premiums.

You should hear the bitching up here from the people in southeast PA whose property insurance has skyrocketed even though their homes were not affected by Sandy last year. Go anywhere in the country where there has been a natural disaster. The insurance companies are NOT taking the hit. The policy holders are.

Insurance is the biggest fraud ever and health insurance is the worst form of this fraud because a consumer can choose to own a home, car, boat, commercial business, etc. But you cannot choose to be born.


Your house: Average home owner.

Their house: Hartford Insurance headquarters, Hartford, CT

Who's getting fucked here?

I was going to say, "Are you serious?"

But then I remembered you really are that dumb.

Apparently this moron believes the executives live in the office building. According to that logic, here's where Congressman and Senators live:

 

[National Socialist]

Fine with me. The rich do not deserve better care because they can afford it. Amazing how you refuse to even entertain the thought of first class healthcare in a socialist society. NS Germany had it,they made extraordinary advances in medicine,MOST European countries have it and they are far more advanced than the US is and their people are healthier and live longer.

Well I'd like to amend my previous post if I might: We'd all get equally crappy care, except for the members of the State and their favored cronies. They'd get superior care. Should have made that distinction.

So your argument is that those countries are completely socialist as you advocate?

Nope but their healthcare is.

Fine with me. The rich do not deserve better care because they can afford it. Amazing how you refuse to even entertain the thought of first class healthcare in a socialist society. NS Germany had it,they made extraordinary advances in medicine,MOST European countries have it and they are far more advanced than the US is and their people are healthier and live longer.

Well I'd like to amend my previous post if I might: We'd all get equally crappy care, except for the members of the State and their favored cronies. They'd get superior care. Should have made that distinction.

So your argument is that those countries are completely socialist as you advocate?

NS thinks that everyone gets the same level of healthcare in England, France and Germany. Apparently he isn't aware of the fact that these countries have a two-tiered system. There's the crappy socialized healthcare for the average joe, but the rich pay for private healthcare which is far superior. So even the system he endorses doesn't produce the result he desires.

Funny how that works.

I said most of Europe so far you named 2 of what? 50 countries? Fact remains those countries are FAR more advanced in healthcare and education than the US is.

 

[Contumacious]

Fine with me. The rich do not deserve better care because they can afford it. Amazing how you refuse to even entertain the thought of first class healthcare in a socialist society. NS Germany had it,they made extraordinary advances in medicine,MOST European countries have it and they are far more advanced than the US is and their people are healthier and live longer.

Will you ask the Cubans in Miami why they left Castro healthcare and headed for Miami in anything that floated?

.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Fine with me. The rich do not deserve better care because they can afford it. Amazing how you refuse to even entertain the thought of first class healthcare in a socialist society. NS Germany had it,they made extraordinary advances in medicine,MOST European countries have it and they are far more advanced than the US is and their people are healthier and live longer.

Well I'd like to amend my previous post if I might: We'd all get equally crappy care, except for the members of the State and their favored cronies. They'd get superior care. Should have made that distinction.

So your argument is that those countries are completely socialist as you advocate?

Nope but their healthcare is.

Well I'd like to amend my previous post if I might: We'd all get equally crappy care, except for the members of the State and their favored cronies. They'd get superior care. Should have made that distinction.

So your argument is that those countries are completely socialist as you advocate?

NS thinks that everyone gets the same level of healthcare in England, France and Germany. Apparently he isn't aware of the fact that these countries have a two-tiered system. There's the crappy socialized healthcare for the average joe, but the rich pay for private healthcare which is far superior. So even the system he endorses doesn't produce the result he desires.

Funny how that works.

I said most of Europe so far you named 2 of what? 50 countries? Fact remains those countries are FAR more advanced in healthcare and education than the US is.

Oh, so they're a mixed economy then, which was my point all along. Thanks for confirming that.

 

[National Socialist]

Fine with me. The rich do not deserve better care because they can afford it. Amazing how you refuse to even entertain the thought of first class healthcare in a socialist society. NS Germany had it,they made extraordinary advances in medicine,MOST European countries have it and they are far more advanced than the US is and their people are healthier and live longer.

Will you ask the Cubans in Miami why they left Castro healthcare and headed for Miami in anything that floated?

.

1.That's communist
2.Obviously only Europeans/European Americans. can make Socialized societies work correctly.

 

[National Socialist]

Well I'd like to amend my previous post if I might: We'd all get equally crappy care, except for the members of the State and their favored cronies. They'd get superior care. Should have made that distinction.

So your argument is that those countries are completely socialist as you advocate?

Nope but their healthcare is.

NS thinks that everyone gets the same level of healthcare in England, France and Germany. Apparently he isn't aware of the fact that these countries have a two-tiered system. There's the crappy socialized healthcare for the average joe, but the rich pay for private healthcare which is far superior. So even the system he endorses doesn't produce the result he desires.

Funny how that works.

I said most of Europe so far you named 2 of what? 50 countries? Fact remains those countries are FAR more advanced in healthcare and education than the US is.

Oh, so they're a mixed economy then, which was my point all along. Thanks for confirming that.

We are talking about medicine...I have been talking about medicine the entire time...so you are obviously not on track here.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Nope but their healthcare is.


I said most of Europe so far you named 2 of what? 50 countries? Fact remains those countries are FAR more advanced in healthcare and education than the US is.

Oh, so they're a mixed economy then, which was my point all along. Thanks for confirming that.

We are talking about medicine...I have been talking about medicine the entire time...so you are obviously not on track here.

Except you can't just talk about health care in a vacuum when you make comparisons of this sort. Your favored system, which is the system we're discussing, is entirely socialist. That will lead to very different outcomes in terms of health care versus a mixed economy. The mixed economy health care industry, even if it is largely nationalized, will be inefficient and bad, but will obviously be superior to the nightmare that would occur under your ideal economic system, because it will be able to take resources from more productive sectors of its economy whereas your system will have no productive sectors of its economy.

 

[National Socialist]

What do you call the healthcare system we have now? Other than obviously broken.Why is the US 100 years behind every other civilized nation? I prefer at the very least a partly socialist healthcare system like Sweden and Finland.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

What do you call the healthcare system we have now? Other than obviously broken.Why is the US 100 years behind every other civilized nation? I prefer at the very least a partly socialist healthcare system like Sweden and Finland.

Largely nationalized, perhaps not to the same degree as other countries, but it's obviously nowhere near a free market.

 

[Contumacious]

]

1.That's communist
2.Obviously only Europeans/European Americans. can make Socialized societies work correctly.

What Soviet Medicine Teaches Us

In 1918, the Soviet Union became the first country to promise universal "cradle-to-grave" healthcare coverage, to be accomplished through the complete socialization of medicine. The "right to health" became a "constitutional right" of Soviet citizens.

The proclaimed advantages of this system were that it would "reduce costs" and eliminate the "waste" that stemmed from "unnecessary duplication and parallelism" — i.e., competition.

These goals were similar to the ones declared by Mr. Obama and Ms. Pelosi — attractive and humane goals of universal coverage and low costs. What's not to like?

The system had many decades to work, but widespread apathy and low quality of work paralyzed the healthcare system. In the depths of the socialist experiment, healthcare institutions in Russia were at least a hundred years behind the average US level. Moreover, the filth, odors, cats roaming the halls, drunken medical personnel, and absence of soap and cleaning supplies added to an overall impression of hopelessness and frustration that paralyzed the system. According to official Russian estimates, 78 percent of all AIDS victims in Russia contracted the virus through dirty needles or HIV-tainted blood in the state-run hospitals."

Irresponsibility, expressed by the popular Russian saying "They pretend they are paying us and we pretend we are working," resulted in appalling quality of service, widespread corruption, and extensive loss of life. My friend, a famous neurosurgeon in today's Russia, received a monthly salary of 150 rubles — one-third of the average bus driver's salary.

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[National Socialist]

Course it didn't work in the USSR they were too busy murdering anyone educated. Unlike in NS Germany where those smart enough were pushed to help their people.

 

[Clementine]

Health insurance.....any insurance.....is pure socialism. Except it's done by a corporation with shareholders instead of a central government.

When a carrier takes a hit for a claim what do they do, if they pay it or not? They pass the losses amongst their pool of policy holders. They don't take the hit even though they may have collected 1000 times what that claim may be. THEY SPREAD THE LOSSES AROUND....and keep the premiums.

You should hear the bitching up here from the people in southeast PA whose property insurance has skyrocketed even though their homes were not affected by Sandy last year. Go anywhere in the country where there has been a natural disaster. The insurance companies are NOT taking the hit. The policy holders are.

Insurance is the biggest fraud ever and health insurance is the worst form of this fraud because a consumer can choose to own a home, car, boat, commercial business, etc. But you cannot choose to be born.


Your house: Average home owner.

Their house: Hartford Insurance headquarters, Hartford, CT

Who's getting fucked here?

Okay, the liberals say everyone is entitled to force all medical personnel into servitude because no one chose to be born. And no one is even the slightest bit responsible for their own well-being. It's all on government. Well, I'm sure the smartest people will rush to medical school now.

People who spend their EBT card money on tattoos, casinos, nail and hair salons, liquor stores, junk food and strip joints are probably totally subsidized on health care because they can't afford it. They are what brought us down. The damn attitude that they are entitled to everything just because they exist has taken it's toll.

Now that Obamacare is here, all of us have to undergo body fat measures, they are putting more sin taxes on cigarettes and they are seeking to ban transfats and anything else they don't want us to have. They are planning to control people's behavior except when it comes to unplanned pregnancies. We are still expected to pay for the poor choices made by many. Most of them are uninsured or drawing welfare and Medicaid, so we pay for everything. Yet, the left doesn't say a word about the welfare crowd, as if they are so helpless that they can't possibly be held responsible for the mess they're in.

What is more expensive each year, paying for insured people when they have heart attacks or paying for all the illegitimate children born to uninsured single moms and illegal aliens? The welfare system gobbles up tax dollars like crazy, yet the left focuses on fat people and smokers, saying they are what is dragging us down.

Government has been too involved in health care for decades. By not allowing competition for insurance companies and allowing big pharms to have a monopoly by banning the purchase of medicines from other countries, the government has insured that prices went through the roof. And now they pretend to be the solution.

Are liberals so scared of everything in life that they want the government holding their hand every day? The government has never done anything to earn such a trust, yet some people act as if they are the answer to all of life's problems. It's pathetic.

 

[National Socialist]

^^ good ole amurican republican. Thinks all poor use ebt on tattoos and alcohol etc. probably doesn't even know any actual poor people. Just following through with the typical ignorant stereotypes.

 

[bripat9643]

Good. Free market just means those who can pay more get better healthcare. That's bullshit.

Why is that bullshit? Do you think people should get things without paying for them?

The state should pay for ALL medical care and it should be EQUAL medical care for EVERYONE. You should not get to live because you are rich and can afford it and I am poor and can't.

If the state is supposed to pay for all healthcare, then why shouldn't it pay for all food, all housing, all clothing, all transportation and all entertainment? What makes healthcare special?

Where does it end? An artificial heart costs $500,000. Should everyone be entitled to that? How about plastic surgery? Are you entitled to an artificial knee joint?

Why is that bullshit? Do you think people should get things without paying for them?

He thinks the state should decide who gets better health care.

No I think the state should make sure ALL citizens get EQUAL healthcare.

Why? What entitles you to anymore healthcare than you can pay for?

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

^^ good ole amurican republican. Things all poor use ebt on tattoos and alcohol etc. probably doesn't even know any actual poor people. Just following through with the typical ignorant stereotypes.

The racist is going to criticize others for their "typical ignorant stereotypes." It's too much.