*There *Is*, And *Never *, Was A Palestine*

chesswarsnow

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Sorry bout that,



1. Now look we all know where the arabs in Israel came from, lets be men.
2. They came from Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, and surrounding *hell holes*.
3. We know this, lets stop *all* the bullshit.
4. There was never a *home land* for arabs in Israel.
5. Never a working government, never a form of currency, never a heritage.
6. Just a bunch of arabs showed up to stake claims on Israel, when the Jews came back home in 1948.
7. This too shall pass, not to worry people of Israel.
8. Link:Hamas: 'Resistance' against Israel is only option left for Palestinians - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News


""The Palestinian people do not beg the world for a state, and the state can't be created through decisions and initiatives," Haniyeh said. "States liberate their land first and then the political body can be established."



9. And why don't they, because they know Israel will end up running them into the seas.
10. Some stupid cleric in Iran thinks he has something to do with Israel, bring it Iran, and watch your whole country go up in fucking smoke you stupid bastards!:eusa_hand:



Regards,
SirJamesofTexas
 

pgm

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There was a Palestinian mandate. It was confirmed on July 24, 1922 and came into effect on September 26, 1923.

There was no Palestine under Ottoman rule. The people who came to identify themselves as Palestinians were split under a few different regions (and these kept changing). Not that that mattered to the people who lived there. It's the land of their grandfather's homes.

1, 2 & 3) Some came from Syria, Lebanon, Jordan and Egypt. Others descended from the people who always lived there. Genetically, they're much closer to the Jewish people than any other Arab group. Among the Arabs, they are the most similar genetically and culturally to the other Levantine Arabs (the Lebanese and Syrians to a lesser extent).
4) What does this mean? There were certainly Arabs living in Israel before and after the Jewish people started immigrating in large numbers.
5) Government, no. Currency, no. Heritage, depends what you mean. There was a cultural heritage.
6) The Jews arrived way before 1948 and there was lots of fighting with the Arabs from the beginning.
7) Why is this a numbered list? These aren't separate points.
8) Hamas certainly appeals to a segment of the Palestinians who are frustrated with mainstream Palestinian leadership. Creating a Palestinian state can help take away some of the more moderate Palestinians who could be tempted to support Hamas.
9) Yes, Israel would.
10) Are you talking about Khomeini?

Take care,

Pgm
 

editec

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What's in a name?

A battlefield by any other name would be as bloody.
 

JStone

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Genetically, they're much closer to the Jewish people than any other Arab group.
No.

Eminent Archaeologist and Historian, former Fulbright Scholar Eric Cline...
The claims that modern Palestinians are descended from the ancient Jebusites are made without any supporting evidence. Historians and archaeologists have generally concluded that most, if not all, modern Palestinians are probably more closely related to the Arabs of Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Jordan and other countries than they are to the ancient Jebusites, Canaanites or Philistines.
What does this mean? There were certainly Arabs living in Israel before and after the Jewish people started immigrating in large numbers.
There were Arabs living in Israel....2000 years after Jews settled in Israel. Thus, the country has been known by the Hebrew name Israel since 3000 years ago.
 
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pgm

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Jordan, yes. Saudi Arabia, not so much.

In a study of Israeli and Palestinian Muslim Arabs, more than 70% of Jewish men and half of the Arab men whose DNA was studied inherited their Y chromosomes from the same paternal ancestors who lived in the region within the last few thousand years.
One DNA study by geneticist Ariella Oppenheim suggested that at least part of the Arab Israeli and Palestinian population is descended from Levant Christians and Jews, which would collaborate with historical accounts that Levantine people "had converted [to Islam] after the Islamic conquest in the seventh century A.D." The study also discovered significant genetic mixing between these converts and incoming Arab tribes during the first millennium AD.

"High-resolution Y chromosome haplotypes of Israeli and Palestinian Arabs reveal geographic substructure and substantial overlap with haplotypes of Jews
There's not a whole lot separating the Arabs of South Lebanon from Palestine (at least not in a way that would unite them as Palestine). Really, the most unifying thing is the displacement from Israel in 1948. Their dialect of Arabic is pretty similar to the Lebanese and, like that of the Iraqis and Syrians, is influenced by Aramaic. If one would split the Arab world into more accurate countries, the Arabian peninsula would be separate, Iraq would be separate, Egypt would be separate and Syria, Palestine, Lebanon and Jordan could be argued as one. There are definite differences between them, though, and if any one of them is a made-up country, it is Jordan, not Palestine.

Another link:
http://epiphenom.fieldofscience.com/2009/01/shared-genetic-heritage-of-jews-and.html



Sar being Saudi Arabia, obviously. The Druze are Arabs of Lebanon, but not Muslim. The triangle for Yemen are the Yemeni Jews. The rest seems obvious.
 
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chesswarsnow

chesswarsnow

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Sorry bout that,



1. PGM pretty much shut the door on any debate.:eusa_hand:
2. Nice going.:clap2:



Regards,
SirJamesofTexas
 

editec

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Oh my goodness, how many times are we going to have this silly argument?

People will simply show you example after example of the term Paletine being used over the last 2000 years or so and you will ignore it.

What's even more annoying is that the fact that some people in antiquity called that area Palestine is entirely irrelvant to the issue of modern Israel, and the Arabs who live there now.
 

JStone

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Oh my goodness, how many times are we going to have this silly argument?

People will simply show you example after example of the term Paletine being used over the last 2000 years or so and you will ignore it.

What's even more annoying is that the fact that some people in antiquity called that area Palestine is entirely irrelvant to the issue of modern Israel, and the Arabs who live there now.
Middle East Historian Bernard Lewis...
The adjective Palestinian is comparatively new. This, I need hardly remind you, is a region of ancient civilization and of deep-rooted and often complex identitites. But, Palestine was not one of them. People might identify themselves for various purposes, by religion, by descent, or by allegiance to a particular state or ruler, or, sometimes, locality. But, when they did it locally it was generally either the city and the immediate district or the larger province, so they would have been Jerusalemites or Jaffaites or Syrians, identifying province of Syria

The constitution or the formation of a political entity called Palestine which eventually gave rise to a nationality called Palestinian were lasting innovations of the British Mandate [1948]
Cambridge University Press
In Ottoman times, no political entity called Palestine existed. After the collapse of the Ottoman Empire at the end of the First World War, European boundary makers began to take greater interest in defining territorial limits for Palestine. Only since the 1920s has Palestine had formally delimited boundaries, though these have remained subject to repeated change and a source of bitter dispute.
Palestine Boundaries 1833–1947 - Cambridge Archive Editions
Guy Milliere, Eminent Professor of History and Political Science, Sorbonne, Paris
No one had heard of a Palestinian people before the mid-1960s. They did not exist. Israel under the British Mandate until Israel' s Independence in 1948 was called Palestine. All Jews who were born there until i948 had the word « Palestine » stamped on their passports. The current Palestinians are those Arabs who, for a variety of reasons, decided to leave the land during the 1947 War of Independence, when five countries – Jordan, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon and Iraq – attacked the 600,000 people in the fledgling state of Israel the day after its birth, hoping to kill it in the crib.
The War Against Israel Goes On- by Guy Millière | DRZZ.fr
Pulitzer Prize-Winning Writer Charles Krauthammer...
Israel is the very embodiment of Jewish continuity: It is the only nation on earth that inhabits the same land, bears the same name, speaks the same language, and worships the same God that it did 3,000 years ago. You dig the soil and you find pottery from Davidic times, coins from Bar Kokhba, and 2,000-year-old scrolls written in a script remarkably like the one that today advertises ice cream at the corner candy store.
Tel Dan Stele Verifying King David Dynasty 3000 years ago
http://www.biblearchaeology.org/pos...n-Stela-and-the-Kings-of-Aram-and-Israel.aspx

Judaea Capta Coins Minted By Romans against Jews 2000 years ago
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaea_Capta_coinage

Jewish Dead Sea Scrolls 2000 years old.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Sea_Scrolls

Yale University Press: The Archaeology of Ancient Israel
In this lavishly illustrated book some of Israel's foremost archaeologists present a thorough, up-to-date, and readily accessible survey of early life in the land of the Bible, from the Neolithic era (eighth millennium B.C.E.) to the fall of Jerusalem and the destruction of the First Temple in 586 B.C.E. It will be a delightful and informative resource for anyone who has ever wanted to know more about the religious, scientific, or historical background of the region.
http://yalepress.yale.edu/OtherVendors.asp?isbn=9780300059199
 
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pgm

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Bernard Lewis is mostly correct. The defining characteristic of the "Palestinians" before they were called Palestinians was that they were the Arabs of the Holy Land. The borders weren't what they are now (the Ottomans had them as South Syria). But their connection was to the land, not to a name.

There are a couple ideas about when a singular Palestinian identity emerged (as opposed to an Arab/Muslim identity). Some say it was in the 17th Century. A more definitive moment would be the riots of the 1830s. There is no question that the term "Palestinian" was being used in the 1910s.

Is it comparatively new? Of course. But so is nationalism. So is the idea of self-determination. I would even go as far as to say Palestinian nationalism is newer than Zionism. But there is still a Palestinian identity. No other Arab state prioritizes the interests of the Palestinians. Not the Egyptians or Syrians, who try to use Palestinians as a political tool. Not the Jordanians, who treated the Palestinians as 2nd class citizens and were more concerned about territorial expansion into the West Bank than preserving Palestinian homes.

Guy Milliere is completely wrong. As I explained, the term Palestinian was used to refer to the Arab people living there at the turn of the 20th Century. Second, Jordan, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon and Iraq did not invade until 1948, after there had been fighting for nearly a year (fighting that left the Arab population largely displaced). Finally, Jordan did not invade with any intention of snuffing out Israel. It invaded because it wanted to take the Arab Partition of Palestine and incorporate it into its own territory.

As for Krauthammer, we don't usually agree, but what he says is fairly innocuous. I would offer China as an example of 3000 years of one people, country, name, language and religion (depending on the part of China).
 

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Bernard Lewis is mostly correct. The defining characteristic of the "Palestinians" before they were called Palestinians was that they were the Arabs of the Holy Land. The borders weren't what they are now (the Ottomans had them as South Syria). But their connection was to the land, not to a name.
There were few Arabs to be connected and the land was owned for the most part by the Turks, not the Arabs. The few Arabs who owned land were wealthy absentee landowners from Egypt, Syria and Lebanon who leased the land for cultivation

There are a couple ideas about when a singular Palestinian identity emerged (as opposed to an Arab/Muslim identity). Some say it was in the 17th Century. A more definitive moment would be the riots of the 1830s. There is no question that the term "Palestinian" was being used in the 1910s.
Incorrect.

Historian Bernard Lewis...
For Arabs, the term Palestine was unacceptable. For Muslims it was alien and irrelevant but not abhorrent in the same way as it was to Jews. The main objection for them was that it seemed to assert a separate entity which politically conscious Arabs in Palestine and elsewhere denied. For them there was no such thing as a country called Palestine. The region which the British called Palestine was merely a separated part of a larger whole [of Syria]. For a long time organized and articulate Arab political opinion was virtually unanimous on this point.
At first, the country of which Palestine was a part was felt to be Syria. In Ottoman times, that is, immediately before the coming of the British, Palestine had indeed been a part of a larger Syrian whole from which it was in no way distinguished whether by language, culture, education, administration, political allegiance, or any other significant respect. The dividing line between British-mandated Palestine and French-mandated Syria-Lebanon was an entirely new one and for the people of the area was wholly artificial. It was therefore natural that the nationalist leadership when it first appeared should think in Syrian terms and describe Palestine as southern Syria
The Palestinian Arabs' basic sense of corporate historic identity was, at different levels, Muslim or Arab or -- for some -- Syrian; it is significant that even by the end of the Mandate in 1948, after 30 years of separate Palestinian political existence, there were virtually no books in Arabic on the history of Palestine.
American Library Association
For more than four decades, Bernard Lewis has been one of the most respected scholars and prolific writers on the history and politics of the Middle East. In this compilation of more than 50 journal articles and essays, he displays the full range of his eloquence, knowledge, and insight regarding this pivotal and volatile region."
http://www.oup.com/us/catalog/gener...olitics/MiddleEast/?view=usa&ci=9780195144215
 
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JStone

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But there is still a Palestinian identity.
Prior to Israeli statehood, Jews were Palestinians.

A "Palestinian" can mean a person who is born in the geographical area known prior to 1918 as "Palestine", or a former citizen of the British Mandate territory called Palestine, or an institution related to either of these. Using this definition, both Palestinian Arabs and Palestinian Jews were called "Palestinians".

Before the establishment of the State of Israel, the meaning of the word "Palestinian" didn't discriminate on ethnic grounds, but rather referred to anything associated with the region. The local newspaper, founded in 1932 by Gershon Agron was called The Palestine Post. In 1950, its name was changed to The Jerusalem Post.

In 1923, Pinhas Rutenberg founded the Palestine Electric Company, Ltd. (later to become the Israel Electric Corporation, Ltd.) There was a [Jewish] Palestine Symphony Orchestra, and in World War II, the British assembled a Jewish Brigade to fight the Axis Powers that was known as the Palestine regiment.

Since the establishment of Israel, its citizens are called Israelis, while the term Palestinians usually refers to the Palestinian Arabs.

Definitions of Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Palestinians identify by the Arab nation.

Palestine Charter...
We, the Palestinian Arab people, who believe in its Arabism...

The Palestinian people firmly believe in Arab unity
How many nations identify by a word not even in their own native language? Palestine is an English word invented by the British based on the Latin Palestina which the Romans renamed the Jewish land of Judah and Palestina is based on the Hebrew word Peleshet that is in the Torah.

Are Palestinians really Roman British Orthodox Jews? :lol:
 

pgm

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There were few Arabs to be connected and the land was owned for the most part by the Turks, not the Arabs. The few Arabs who owned land were wealthy absentee landowners from Egypt, Syria and Lebanon who leased the land for cultivation.
There were Jordanian landowners as well, but you completely miss the point. It didn't matter who owned the land; it mattered who lived on it. Are the Native Americans not Native to America because some British people owned the land?

There are a couple ideas about when a singular Palestinian identity emerged (as opposed to an Arab/Muslim identity). Some say it was in the 17th Century. A more definitive moment would be the riots of the 1830s. There is no question that the term "Palestinian" was being used in the 1910s.
Incorrect.

Historian Bernard Lewis...

The Palestinian Arabs' basic sense of corporate historic identity was, at different levels, Muslim or Arab or -- for some -- Syrian; it is significant that even by the end of the Mandate in 1948, after 30 years of separate Palestinian political existence, there were virtually no books in Arabic on the history of Palestine.
American Library Association
For more than four decades, Bernard Lewis has been one of the most respected scholars and prolific writers on the history and politics of the Middle East. In this compilation of more than 50 journal articles and essays, he displays the full range of his eloquence, knowledge, and insight regarding this pivotal and volatile region."
Oxford University Press: Faith and Power:
Well, then he's still wrong.

First came Arab nationalism in the 19th Century, with a special place for the Palestinians because of the 1838 Arab Revolt in Palestine. Then came calls for Greater Syria. Calls for a Palestinian state started as a counter to Zionism and really cemented when the French conquered Syria. Then it gained legitimacy with the British Mandate.

I said he was wrong because he said there was no identity as Palestinian before 1968. I can tell you the Filastani was published in 1911. If you doubt further, Thawr ibn Yazid, who lived in the 7th Century once said, "The most holy spot on earth is Syria; the most holy spot in Syria is Palestine; the most holy spot in Palestine is Jerusalem ; the most holy spot in Jerusalem is the Mountain; the most holy spot in Jerusalem is the place of worship , and the most holy spot in the place of worship is the Dome."

Use of the term Palestine predates the Romans' use. In 340 BC, Aristotle said, "Again if, as is fabled, there is a lake in Palestine, such that if you bind a man or beast and throw it in it floats and does not sink, this would bear out what we have said. They say that this lake is so bitter and salt that no fish live in it and that if you soak clothes in it and shake them it cleans them." Herodotus also referred to a district in Syria called Palestine.


How many nations identify by a word not even in their own native language? Palestine is an English word invented by the British based on the Latin Palestina which the Romans renamed the Jewish land of Judah and Palestina is based on the Hebrew word Peleshet that is in the Torah.

Are Palestinians really Roman British Orthodox Jews? :lol:
The Arabs took the names for the places from the Byzantines. They don't say Palestinian, but Filastani (there is no letter "P" in Arabic). It is the Arabic word for people of Palestine. The word Palestine could be based off of the Hebrew Paleshet, or the Egyptian Peleset, or the Asyrian Palashtu, or the Greek Palaistinê.

As for nations that use words that are not from their own native language, I can think of a few. The Japanese use Nihon-jin, which is not a native Japanese word (it's a Chinese-based word). Even the word they used before Nihon, Wa, was likely Chinese. The Koreans (Han-guk-in) use a Chinese-based word. Those from countries with European borders often use non-native words--Syrian is not Arabic, nor is Lebanon or Jordan. I'd include Egypt as an example, but they don't call themselves Egypt. Closer to home, Canada is an Iroquois word.

Palestinians identify by the Arab nation.

Palestine Charter...
We, the Palestinian Arab people, who believe in its Arabism...

The Palestinian people firmly believe in Arab unity
They identify by the Arab nation to distinguish themselves from the Jews who emigrated from Europe. The Arab nation includes Christians, Muslims and Jews.

As for the Arab unity, there are Palestinians who do believe in that and others who don't. This is an appeal to both.
 
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JStone

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Well, then he's still wrong.
I don't think so. Now, you look especially foolish.

Association for the Study of the Middle East and Africa
For more than 60 years, Bernard Lewis, the doyen of Middle East historians, has interpreted the world of Islam to the West. Born and raised in London, he studied at the University of London's School of Oriental and African Studies, where he earned a Ph.D. in the History of Islam. After service during World War II, he taught at the University of London until 1974 and at Princeton University until 1986. He is currently Princeton's Cleveland E. Dodge Professor Emeritus of Near Eastern Studies.

Professor Lewis has drawn on primary sources in Middle Eastern and other languages to produce more than two dozen books, including The Arabs in History and the post-9/11 international best-sellers What Went Wrong? and Crisis in Islam. Professor Lewis has performed the invaluable service of placing current events in the context of history.

He was the first Western scholar permitted access to the archives of the Ottoman Empire in Istanbul. His work is distinguished by its attention to the lives of ordinary people, as well as kings and rulers. Professor Lewis was among the first to study issues of race, slavery, class and the status of women in Middle Eastern history. In addition to his historical studies, he has published translations of classical Arabic, Turkish, Persian and Hebrew poetry.

Recognizing the pressing need for reform and improvement in the Middle Eastern as well as African studies, Professor Lewis assembled a distinguished group of scholars and statesmen in 2007 to creat ASMEA. He has served as its chairman and guiding force since its inception.

Professor Bernard Lewis, Chairman
Bernard Lewis...
Even the adjective Palestinian is comparatively new. This, I need hardly remind you, is a region of ancient civilization and of deep-rooted and often complex identitites. But, Palestine was not one of them. People might identify themselves for various purposes, by religion, by descent, or by allegiance to a particular state or ruler, or, sometimes, locality. But, when they did it locally it was generally either the city and the immediate district or the larger province, so they would have been Jerusalemites or Jaffaites or Syrians, identifying province of Syria

The constitution or the formation of a political entity called Palestine which eventually gave rise to a nationality called Palestinian were lasting innovations of the British Mandate
Cambridge University Press
In Ottoman times, no political entity called Palestine existed. After the collapse of the Ottoman Empire at the end of the First World War, European boundary makers began to take greater interest in defining territorial limits for Palestine. Only since the 1920s has Palestine had formally delimited boundaries, though these have remained subject to repeated change and a source of bitter dispute.
http://www.archiveeditions.co.uk/titledetails.asp?tid=74
Use of the term Palestine predates the Romans' use. In 340 BC, Aristotle said, "Again if, as is fabled, there is a lake in Palestine, such that if you bind a man or beast and throw it in it floats and does not sink, this would bear out what we have said. They say that this lake is so bitter and salt that no fish live in it and that if you soak clothes in it and shake them it cleans them." Herodotus also referred to a district in Syria called Palestine.
Incorrect, again. The Romans, who were European occupiers not indigenous to the region, invented Palestine. Previously, Jews called the land Israel and Judah, from which "Jew" is derived. The Persians referred to the land as Yehud, Aramaic for Judah.

The Greeks called Judah "Judaea" The Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible, the Septuagint, translated by 70 eminent Jewish scholars, uses "Phylistieim," the Greek translation of the Hebrew Peleshet, not Palestine.

Aristotle and Herodotus never used "Palestine" Their translators used Palestine. The Jewish historian Josephus used Judah, never Palestine.

Biblical scholar and historian James Parkes
In response to increased Roman oppression, the Jewish people rose again in resistance, but, the rebels were forced into the single fortress of Bethar, south-west of Jerusalem. There they held out for two years.

With their destruction, the names Judea and Jerusalem were blotted from the Roman language. The country was renamed Palestina, and Aelia Capitolina rose as a Roman city on the ruins of Jerusalem.
Historian Joseph Ward Swain, "The Ancient World"
Once more, the Jews revolted against the Romans, this time under the leadership of a certain Bar Kokhba. The success of the rebels was short-lived , for, of course the Roman legions were ultimately victorious. All Jews were excluded from the province, whose name was changed from Judaea to Syria Palaestina.
Historian Albert Trever, "History of Ancient Civilization"
Judaea and the Jewish Insurrections
When the governor of Judaea was unable to stem the Jewish revolt , under the leadership of Bar Kokhba, additional troops were called to meet the crisis. But ,only by three years of methodical siege of stronghold was the rebellion crushed in Judaea.

Hadrian assumed the title of "imperator" and the name of province was changed from Judaea to Syria Palaestina
Eminent Archaeologist and Historian Eric Cline...
The Second Jewish Revolt against the Romans, also called the Bar Kokhba Rebellion, broke out in Judaea and lasted from 132 to 135 CE. It has been estimated that it took as many as 80,000 Roman soldiers to suppress the Jewish revolt. After years of successful guerilla fighting, Bar Kokhba and his followers a final stand at Bethar, a few miles from Jerusalem. There, they were killed by the Romans.

Hadrian expelled the Jews from Jerusalem, which was renamed Aelia Capitolina, and Judaea was renamed Syria Palastina
You lost the debate. Now, walk away
 
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pgm

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Thank you for your appeals to authority.

First quote:

On the one hand he's right. The people would have been Arabs first, Syrians second and the locality third. But by the 20th Century, things had changed a lot. By 1911, Palestinian was used to distinguish the Arab-speaking people of Palestine. If he says the term did not exist before that, he's just wrong.

As for the political distinction coming from the British Mandate, that is also correct. But that is hardly fair. It was Ottoman before it fell under the British Mandate. Just because the Ottomans did not feel Palestine was its own state, doesn't mean that the area was not called Palestine.

The Cambridge quote:

Again with requiring a political entity called Palestine. How Westphalian. These Western concepts hardly apply to Southwest Asia before the 19th Century at the earliest (and it really doesn't start till WWI). The borders were controversial for two reasons. Any arbitrary borders are controversial and it was made worse because the British were trying to install two princes from the Arabian peninsula as the rulers of Jordan and Syria (the French nixed the Syria idea). The British couldn't take too much land from its allies in WWI, but didn't want to carve too much out of Palestine because of local and Jewish resistance to the idea.

On the Romans:

They clearly did not invent the term because it was used by Herodotus. He uses the term in The Histories. Even Jewish historian Josephus was aware of this:

"Nor, indeed, was Herodotus of Halicarnassus unaquainted with our nation, but mentions it after a way of his own... This, therefore, is what Herodotus says, that "the Syrians that are in Palestine are circumcised". But there are no inhabitants of Palestine that are circumcised excepting the Jews; and, therefore, it must be his knowledge of them that enabled him to speak so much concerning them."

(Here's what Herodotus said on circumcision:
"the Colchians, the Egyptians, and the Ethiopians, are the only nations who have practised circumcision from the earliest times. The Phoenicians and the Syrians of Palestine themselves confess that they learnt the custom of the Egyptians.... Now these are the only nations who use circumcision.")

Also from Josephus:
"...these Antiquities contain what hath been delivered down to us from the original creation of man, until the twelfth year of the reign of Nero, as to what hath befallen us Jews, as well is Egypt as in Syria, and in Palestine"

These were both prior to the bar Kokhba revolt. Hadrian made Judea part of a political term called Syria Palestine. Before that, there were many terms (with Judea being the official province name).

And hey, look. The rest of the quotes don't contradict me in the slightest.
 

JStone

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They clearly did not invent the term because it was used by Herodotus. He uses the term in The Histories. Even Jewish historian Josephus was aware of this:

"Nor, indeed, was Herodotus of Halicarnassus unaquainted with our nation, but mentions it after a way of his own... This, therefore, is what Herodotus says, that "the Syrians that are in Palestine are circumcised". But there are no inhabitants of Palestine that are circumcised excepting the Jews; and, therefore, it must be his knowledge of them that enabled him to speak so much concerning them."
I just told you, Herodotus did not use Palestine. Herodutus's translators used Palestine. The Greeks called the land "Judaea" for the Hebrew "Judah"

Herodotus's first manuscripts appeared 1300 years after he died. His translators used Palestine.

Herodotus was European, not indigenous to the region. The Jews called the land Israel and Judah

Palestine does not appear once in the Hebrew Bible nor Christian Bible. Palestine does not appear in the Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible, the Septuagint

Romans invented Palestine: Read, learn http://www.usmessageboard.com/4229012-post14.html
 
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pgm

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Herodotus used the word "Palaistinê." This is not meant to prove that the land was called Palestine by the people living there. It wasn't. It was Judea. It was to prove that the geographical region was often known by Palestine by the Greeks, among others.

The Philistines were more famous in Greece than the Jews simply because they traded with the Greeks. So, the Greeks called the area Palestine, which was a region of Syria (which contained most of Southwest Asia).

Herodotus never traveled to many of the places he talked about. Much of his work is based on hearsay and third person accounts. It should definitely be taken with a grain of salt. But the term "Palestine" was used before Hadrian by Josephus and many others.
 

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Herodotus used the word "Palaistinê." This is not meant to prove that the land was called Palestine by the people living there. It wasn't. It was Judea. It was to prove that the geographical region was often known by Palestine by the Greeks, among others.

The Philistines were more famous in Greece than the Jews simply because they traded with the Greeks. So, the Greeks called the area Palestine, which was a region of Syria (which contained most of Southwest Asia).

Herodotus never traveled to many of the places he talked about. Much of his work is based on hearsay and third person accounts. It should definitely be taken with a grain of salt. But the term "Palestine" was used before Hadrian by Josephus and many others.
Herodotus did not use Palestine or Palaistine. His translators used Palestine.

The Greeks coined "Judaea" for the Hebrew name of the land "Judah," from which Jew is derived. The Greek Septuagint translation of the Hebrew Bible does not use Palestine.

The Hebrew Bible does not use Palestine. The Christian Bible does not use Palestine.

No ancient documents or archaeological artifacts use Palestine.

The Persians used Yehud, Aramaic for Judah.

The Romans used Judaea.

Earlier, the ancient Egyptians used Israel. The ancient Moabites used Israel.

Most importantly, the Hebrews, who owned the land, called the land Israel and Judah, not Palestine.

Historian Bernard Lewis...
The countries forming the western arm of the Fertile Crescent were called by the names of the various kingdoms and peoples that ruled and inhabited them. Of these, the most familiar, or at least the best documented, are the southern lands, known in the earlier books of the Hebrew Bible and some other ancient writings as Canaan. After the Israelite conquest and settlement, the area inhabited by them came to be described as "land of the children of Israel" or simply "land of Israel" After the breakup of the kingdom of David and Solomon in the tenth century BCE, the southern part, with Jerusalem as its capital, was called Judah, while the north was called Israel
 

pgm

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I don't feel like going over this because you've provided no evidence that Herodotus's translators were the ones who called the land Palestine. There is certainly evidence that he did not call it Judeah (as attested by Josephus). So, I will simply say this: The Greek Septuagint was a much later creation that Herodotus and since it was a translation of the Bible, used the Jewish terms. The Kingdoms were Judea and Israel. Palestine was merely a vague geographic concept.

Aristotle also used the term Palestine.

I will simply direct you to a damn list of the word being used. Most of these are post Hadrian, but many are not:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_name_Palestine
 
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JStone

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I don't feel like going over this because you've provided no evidence that Herodotus's translators were the ones who called the land Palestine. There is certainly evidence that he did not call it Judeah (as attested by Josephus). So, I will simply say this: The Greek Septuagint was a much later creation that Herodotus and since it was a translation of the Bible, used the Jewish terms. The Kingdoms were Judea and Israel. Palestine was merely a vague geographic concept.

Aristotle also used the term Palestine.

I will simply direct you to a damn list of the word being used. Most of these are post Hadrian, but many are not:
History of the name Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Wikipedia is not an authoritative source, which explains your ignorance of the subject matter.

Where is Palestine in the Hebrew Bible? Where is Palestine in the Christian Bible? Where is Palestine in the Quran?

Where is Palestine in any archaeological artifacts?

Nowhere. Nowhere. Nowhere. Nowhere.

You lost the debate 20 posts ago
 

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