*There *Is*, And *Never *, Was A Palestine*

[pgm]

Address my genetic studies. Don't keep posting your historian. That's not evidence, that's an appeal to authority. I'm sure he has evidence, so you need to go dig those up or you have no case.

 

[JStone]

Address my genetic studies. Don't keep posting your historian. That's not evidence, that's an appeal to authority. I'm sure he has evidence, so you need to go dig those up or you have no case.

You're stuck on stupid.

Palestinians are merely Arabs from Arabia.

Rashid Khalidi, professor of Middle East history and director of the Center for International Studies at the University of Chicago and advisor to various Arab groups...

There is a relatively recent tradition which argues that Palestinian nationalism has deep historical roots. As with other national movements, extreme advocates of this view anachronistically read back into the history of Palestine over the past few centuries a nationalist consciousness and identity that are in fact relatively modern. Among the manifestations of this outlook are a predilection for seeing in peoples such as the Canaanites, Jebusites and Philistines the lineal ancestors of the modern Palestinians.

Historian Bernard Lewis

By Arabs bypassing the Biblical Israelites and claiming kinship with the Canaanites, it is possible to assert a historical claim antedating the biblical promise and possession put forward by the Jews. This line of argument isaccompanied by the common practice in Arab countries, in textbook, museums and exhibitions of minimizing the Jewish role in ancient history or, more frequently, presenting it in very negative terms.

In terms of scholarship as distinct from politics, there is no evidence whatsoever for the assertion that the Canaanites were Arabs.

 

[pgm]

I'll leave you to fight your windmills.

 

[JStone]

I'll leave you to fight your windmills.

Translation: You brought a pen knife to a gun fight and lost.

 

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,

I'll leave you to fight your windmills.

Translation: You brought a pen knife to a gun fight and lost.

1. Translation: Check and Mate!




Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

 

[pgm]

*sigh*

There's no point for me to post evidence, argument and reasons if they're not addressed. All I get in return are logical fallacies. Go back to my original post and address what I said.

You can continue your vendetta against the Palestinian Arabs and you can continue punching strawmen. If you have no intention to have a discussion or even respond to my actual points, why should I respond?

 

[JStone]

*sigh*

There's no point for me to post evidence, argument and reasons if they're not addressed. All I get in return are logical fallacies. Go back to my original post and address what I said.

You can continue your vendetta against the Palestinian Arabs and you can continue punching strawmen. If you have no intention to have a discussion or even respond to my actual points, why should I respond?

You have nothing.

You lied that Palestine appears in the Bible when Palestine is completely absent from the Hebrew Bible, Christian Bible and even the Quran, Zoroastrian Avesta and the Septuagint Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible.

You lied that the Hebrew "Peleshet" translates to Palestine when Peleshet in every Bible translates to Philistia, land of the Philistines who were not Palestinians. Psalm 60:8 Moab is my washbasin, upon Edom I toss my sandal; over Philistia I shout in triumph."

It's clear you know less than zero about the subject matter and resort to lying, which is a waste of everyones' time.

 

[pgm]

I'm not the one who doesn't know what he's talking about.

Peleshet, Palestine and Philistine referred to the same place. Do you think the Romans invented the term Paleestina out of whole cloth, or do you believe they applied a term that referred to the land of the Philistines as an insult to the Jews?

Did the modern Palestinians name themselves after the Philistines? Of course not. They took the term Palestine from the Byzantines and acquired the identity of "Palestinian" the same way the Syrians and Jordanians acquired their own names, by naming themselves after the local name for the place.

Do you dispute any of this? If so, where? I don't believe I'm lying or misinformed, so I would really like you to answer that question.

 

[JStone]

I'm not the one who doesn't know what he's talking about.

Peleshet, Palestine and Philistine referred to the same place. Do you think the Romans invented the term Paleestina out of whole cloth, or do you believe they applied a term that referred to the land of the Philistines as an insult to the Jews?

You're stuck on stupid.

The Hebrew "Peleshet" translates to Philistia, not Palestine. Philistia refers to five locations in the southwestern part of Israel where the Philistines settled from Greece.

The Palestinians are Arabs from Arabia.

Palestine does not appear in the Bible. Every version of the Bible translates Peleshet to Philistia Psalm 60:8 Moab is my washbasin, upon Edom I toss my sandal; over Philistia I shout in triumph."

You got caught in a lie.

 

[JStone]

Did the modern Palestinians name themselves after the Philistines? Of course not. They took the term Palestine from the Byzantines and acquired the identity of "Palestinian" the same way the Syrians and Jordanians acquired their own names, by naming themselves after the local name for the place.

You're still stuck on stupid.

The Romans who invented "Palestina" FIRST called the land Judaea for the Hebrew Judah, the historical Jewish land from which "Jew" is derived.

The Romans minted Judaea Capta coins Judaea Capta coinage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Romans were foreign occupiers from Italy and Jews lived in and ruled in Israel and Judah 500 years before Rome and Romans even existed and 1000 years before they occupied Israel.

Middle East Historian Bernard Lewis...

The countries forming the western arm of the Fertile Crescent were called by the names of the various kingdoms and peoples that ruled and inhabited them. Of these, the most familiar, or at least the best documented, are the southern lands, known in the earlier books of the Hebrew Bible and some other ancient writings as Canaan. After the Israelite conquest and settlement, the area inhabited by them came to be described as "land of the children of Israel" or simply "land of Israel" After the breakup of the kingdom of David and Solomon in the tenth century BCE, the southern part, with Jerusalem as its capital, was called Judah, while the north was called Israel

 

[pgm]

You're still stuck on stupid.

The Romans who invented "Palestina" FIRST called the land Judaea for the Hebrew Judah, the historical Jewish land from which "Jew" is derived.

I agree. The Romans called the land Judaea. I'm talking about after the Hadrian revolt.

So, this site is lying too?

Origin of the Name Palestine | Palestine Facts

From the fifth century BC, following the historian Herodotus, Greeks called the eastern coast of the Mediterranean “the Philistine Syria” using the Greek language form of the name. In AD 135, after putting down the Bar Kochba revolt, the second major Jewish revolt against Rome, the Emperor Hadrian wanted to blot out the name of the Roman “Provincia Judaea” and so renamed it “Provincia Syria Palaestina”, the Latin version of the Greek name and the first use of the name as an administrative unit. The name “Provincia Syria Palaestina” was later shortened to Palaestina, from which the modern, anglicized “Palestine” is derived.

 

[JStone]

You're still stuck on stupid.

The Romans who invented "Palestina" FIRST called the land Judaea for the Hebrew Judah, the historical Jewish land from which "Jew" is derived.

I agree. The Romans called the land Judaea. I'm talking about after the Hadrian revolt.

You never mentioned the Romans called the land Judaea until I posted it.

Thus, you lied, again.

So, this site is lying too?

Origin of the Name Palestine | Palestine Facts

From the fifth century BC, following the historian Herodotus, Greeks called the eastern coast of the Mediterranean “the Philistine Syria” using the Greek language form of the name. In AD 135, after putting down the Bar Kochba revolt, the second major Jewish revolt against Rome, the Emperor Hadrian wanted to blot out the name of the Roman “Provincia Judaea” and so renamed it “Provincia Syria Palaestina”, the Latin version of the Greek name and the first use of the name as an administrative unit. The name “Provincia Syria Palaestina” was later shortened to Palaestina, from which the modern, anglicized “Palestine” is derived.

Herodotus was from Greece. Hadrian was from Italy.

The Jews were and are from Israel. Their Bible does not contain "Palestine"

Historian Bernard Lewis...

The countries forming the western arm of the Fertile Crescent were called by the names of the various kingdoms and peoples that ruled and inhabited them. Of these, the most familiar, or at least the best documented, are the southern lands, known in the earlier books of the Hebrew Bible and some other ancient writings as Canaan. After the Israelite conquest and settlement, the area inhabited by them came to be described as "land of the children of Israel" or simply "land of Israel" After the breakup of the kingdom of David and Solomon in the tenth century BCE, the southern part, with Jerusalem as its capital, was called Judah, while the north was called Israel

Exodus 34:27

Then the LORD said to Moses, “Write down these words, for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel

 

[pgm]

You never mentioned the Romans called the land Judaea until I posted it.

I never disputed it either. It's tangential to the issue. The Romans called the land Judaea. That was the official name.

They also used the name Palaestina, both before and after Hadrian. It was a term applied to a geographic area.

Herodotus was from Greece. Hadrian was from Italy.

The Jews were and are from Israel. Their Bible does not contain "Palestine"

Their Bible contains Philistine. Philistine translated into Latin (via Greek) is Palaestina. That was my only point. The Arabs took the term from the Byzantines.

Once you realize this actually supports your point instead of undermining it, we can move on from this silly discussion about etymology.

 

[JStone]

You never mentioned the Romans called the land Judaea until I posted it.

I never disputed it either. It's tangential to the issue. The Romans called the land Judaea. That was the official name.

They also used the name Palaestina, both before and after Hadrian. It was a term applied to a geographic area.

Herodotus was from Greece. Hadrian was from Italy.

The Jews were and are from Israel. Their Bible does not contain "Palestine"

Their Bible contains Philistine. Philistine translated into Latin (via Greek) is Palaestina. That was my only point. The Arabs took the term from the Byzantines.

You lie, again, Pinocchio.

The Hebrew Bible references Peleshet that translates into Philistia, not Palaestina.

Read, learn: Psalm 60:8 Moab is my washbasin, upon Edom I toss my sandal; over Philistia I shout in triumph."

The Romans invented Palestina, but, the Romans were foreign occupiers from Italy and Jews lived in and ruled in Israel 500 years before Rome and Romans existed and 1000 years before the Roman occupation.

Palestine does not appear in the Jews' Bible, nor the Christian Bible nor the Quran nor the Zoroastrian Avesta nor the Septuagint Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible.

 

[pgm]

The Hebrew Bible references Peleshet that translates into Philistia, not Palaestina.

How do you say Philistia in Greek? How do you say it in Latin?

The Romans invented Palestina, but, the Romans were foreign occupiers from Italy and Jews lived in and ruled in Israel 500 years before Rome and Romans existed and 1000 years before the Roman occupation.

They invented the political entity of Palaestina. They didn't invent the term.

Palestine does not appear in the Jews' Bible, nor the Christian Bible nor the Quran nor the Zoroastrian Avesta nor the Septuagint Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible.

No, but it does appear in the collections of Hadith. It does appear in 9th Century tax records. It appears in a letter from an 11th Century Rabbi.

So, I ask you once more. How do you say Philistine in Ancient Greek, Late Greek, Latin and Arabic?

Ancient Egyptian: Plst
Assyrian: Palastu
Hebrew: פְּלִשְׁתִּים** Peleset or Plištim or Pleshet
Greek: Παλαιστίνη, Palestini and Phylistiim.
Latin: Palaestina (Late Latin: Philistinus for the people)
Arabic: فلسطين Filastin

They're cognates. They all referred to the same vague geographic region, which is the Ancient Land of Canaan.

Do you think this site is lying too? http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_early_palestine_name_origin.php
Read through it. I bet you mostly agree with its contents.

Now, at this point, you can go back and continue to say the Romans invented the term, or you can acknowledge that it predates the Romans and has the same meaning as Philistine and instead go to the more apt point--there is zero evidence the people calling themselves Palestinians today are the same people as the Philistines. None.

But you won't do that because it would mean conceding a point. Never give your opponent anything, even if it helps your argument.

 

[JStone]

The Hebrew Bible references Peleshet that translates into Philistia, not Palaestina.

How do you say Philistia in Greek? How do you say it in Latin?

The Romans invented Palestina, but, the Romans were foreign occupiers from Italy and Jews lived in and ruled in Israel 500 years before Rome and Romans existed and 1000 years before the Roman occupation.

They invented the political entity of Palaestina. They didn't invent the term.

Palestine does not appear in the Jews' Bible, nor the Christian Bible nor the Quran nor the Zoroastrian Avesta nor the Septuagint Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible.

No, but it does appear in the collections of Hadith. It does appear in 9th Century tax records. It appears in a letter from an 11th Century Rabbi.

So, I ask you once more. How do you say Philistine in Ancient Greek, Late Greek, Latin and Arabic?

Ancient Egyptian: Plst
Assyrian: Palastu
Hebrew: פְּלִשְׁתִּים** Peleset or Plištim or Pleshet
Greek: Παλαιστίνη, Palestini and Phylistiim.
Latin: Palaestina (Late Latin: Philistinus for the people)
Arabic: فلسطين Filastin

They're cognates. They all referred to the same vague geographic region, which is the Ancient Land of Canaan.

Do you think this site is lying too? Origin of the Name Palestine | Palestine Facts
Read through it. I bet you mostly agree with its contents.

Now, at this point, you can go back and continue to say the Romans invented the term, or you can acknowledge that it predates the Romans and has the same meaning as Philistine and instead go to the more apt point--there is zero evidence the people calling themselves Palestinians today are the same people as the Philistines. None.

But you won't do that because it would mean conceding a point. Never give your opponent anything, even if it helps your argument.

Now, you're back to stuck on stupid.

The Egyptians did not write the Hebrew Bible. The Greeks did not write the Hebrew Bible. The Romans did not write the Hebrew Bible.

The Hebrews wrote the Hebrew Bible. Palestine does not appear in the Hebrew Bible nor in any of the translations of the Hebrew Bible.

The Hebrew Peleshet translates into Philistia, land of the Philistines, not Palestine. Every version of the Bible has Philistia, not Palestine Psalm 60:8 Moab is my washbasin, upon Edom I toss my sandal; over Philistia I shout in triumph."

 

[JStone]

[

Palestine does not appear in the Jews' Bible, nor the Christian Bible nor the Quran nor the Zoroastrian Avesta nor the Septuagint Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible.

No, but it does appear in the collections of Hadith. It does appear in 9th Century tax records. It appears in a letter from an 11th Century Rabbi.

You lie, again, Pinocchio.

Palestine does not appear in any of the six canonical hadiths.

 

[JStone]

Now, at this point, you can go back and continue to say the Romans invented the term

Romans invented Palestine.

Historian Bernard Lewis...

The countries forming the western arm of the Fertile Crescent were called by the names of the various kingdoms and peoples that ruled and inhabited them. Of these, the most familiar, or at least the best documented, are the southern lands, known in the earlier books of the Hebrew Bible and some other ancient writings as Canaan. After the Israelite conquest and settlement, the area inhabited by them came to be described as "land of the children of Israel" or simply "land of Israel" After the breakup of the kingdom of David and Solomon in the tenth century BCE, the southern part, with Jerusalem as its capital, was called Judah, while the north was called Israel

Bernard Lewis

After the revolt of Bar-Kokhba in 135 CE, the Romans sent a large part of the Jewish population into captivity and exile. Even the historic nomenclature of the Jews was to be obliterated. Jerusalem was renamed Aelia Capitolina and the names Judea and Samaria were abolished, and, the country renamed Palestine, after the long-forgotten Philisties.

Biblical scholar and historian James Parkes

In response to increased Roman oppression, the Jewish people rose again in resistance, but, the rebels were forced into the single fortress of Bethar, south-west of Jerusalem. There they held out for two years.

With their destruction, the names Judea and Jerusalem were blotted from the Roman language. The country was renamed Palestina, and Aelia Capitolina rose as a Roman city on the ruins of Jerusalem.

Historian Joseph Ward Swain, "The Ancient World"

Once more, the Jews revolted against the Romans, this time under the leadership of a certain Bar Kokhba. The success of the rebels was short-lived , for, of course the Roman legions were ultimately victorious. All Jews were excluded from the province, whose name was changed from Judaea to Syria Palaestina.

Historian Albert Trever, "History of Ancient Civilization"

Judaea and the Jewish Insurrections
When the governor of Judaea was unable to stem the Jewish revolt , under the leadership of Bar Kokhba, additional troops were called to meet the crisis. But ,only by three years of methodical siege of stronghold was the rebellion crushed in Judaea.

Hadrian assumed the title of "imperator" and the name of province was changed from Judaea to Syria Palaestina

Eric Cline...

The Second Jewish Revolt against the Romans, also called the Bar Kokhba Rebellion, broke out in Judaea and lasted from 132 to 135 CE. It has been estimated that it took as many as 80,000 Roman soldiers to suppress the Jewish revolt. After years of successful guerilla fighting, Bar Kokhba and his followers a final stand at Bethar, a few miles from Jerusalem. There, they were killed by the Romans.

Hadrian expelled the Jews from Jerusalem, which was renamed Aelia Capitolina, and Judaea was renamed Syria Palastina

 

[pgm]

Actually, it appears to be a comment on the Haddith, so I apologize for my oversight.

Thawr ibn Yazid (770 AD): The most holy spot [al-quds] on earth is Syria; the most holy spot in Syria is Palestine; the most holy spot in Palestine is Jerusalem [Bayt al-maqdis]; the most holy spot in Jerusalem is the Mountain; the most holy spot in Jerusalem is the place of worship [al-masjid], and the most holy spot in the place of worship is the Dome."

Anyway, if you are unable or unwilling to see my point about the etymology of Palestine with any kind of intellectual honesty, I'm done. I'm curiosity will draw me back in here eventually, I just hope it'll be a while. So, here's what I'll say.

In ancient times, in the land of Canaan, there were Philistines. The Greeks, who did not know much about the Jews, called a generic region from Lebanon down to the Sinai, Palestine, after the Philistines (the Jews called the land Judea and Israel, obviously). They also called the greater region from SE Turkey, down to Egypt, over to Iraq (but not Arabia), Syria. This was named after the Assyrians.

After the Persians conquered Asyria and in turn the Macedonians conquered the Persians, the Greeks took possession of Judea. Eventually, the Jews gained independence, but were conquered by the Romans. The Romans continued to call the region Judea, but they had other terms for it (including Palestine). After a failed 2nd Century rebellion, the Romans called the area Syria Palestina after the older Greek terms. This was not the accurate name for the people, but it became the official name.

The Roman Empire split and the Byzantines continued to call the land Palestine. When the Arabs conquered Byzantium, they kept the older Greek names. The greater region was called Syria (as it is in the Quran). The region in the province was called Filastin. Since there was no longer an official state of Israel, many of the people living there called the land Palestine as well. By the time the Ottomans controlled the Holy Land, Palestine was one of the names used by the people. The English also start calling the land Palestine. After WWI, for the first time since the Romans expelled the Jews, they officially named the land Palestine. As you point out, many Jews and Arabs were upset by this.

So, why are the people Palestinian when I just agreed that they objected to the name of the land? It's for the same reason the Syrians are Syrian and the Jordanians are Jordanian. They needed a name for their identity. They would have been happy with a Greater Syria that included Palestine, but when that failed, they focused their attention on a Palestinian state. In 1911, there were people who called their nation "the Palestinians." By 1948, it was a real identity. That is the origin of the name of the people. It's not the origin of the people, however.

Who are the people? Well, they're Arabs, obviously. But who are the Arabs? Did nomads from the Arabian desert really repopulate a region from Morocco to Iraq? What happened to those already living there? Historical records say they converted to Islam. "Arab" is really a socio-linguistic term for people who were conquered by the Arabs and adopted their customs and language. There is Arab blood in many of them. But the farther you get from Arabia, the more spread out that blood is. That's why Sudanese Arabs are so much darker than Lebanese. So, the Palestinian people are the people who lived in the Holy Land when they were conquered by the Arabs (a mixture of Jews, Greeks, Syrians, etc.). They took the language, religion and even spouses from the Arabs. That's why genetic studies show them to be a lot closer to the Jews than the other Arabs are to the Jews. The Jews in the Holy Land are also Arabs in the sense that they primarily communicated in Arabic, but as they kept their religion, they also primarily married only other Jews.

I will draw a parallel to another genetic study that is potentially controversial--the UK. We all know that there were ancient Britons. We know that the Irish are Celtic and the English and Germanic (Angles and Saxons). Well, genetic studies showed that they are all primarily one people. They're all the Britons. These people did not go away when the Gaelic people came. All of Great Britain took the Celtic language, culture and some Celtic blood. Then the Angles and Saxons came in and drove the Celts into Ireland. But once again, all the Celts did not leave England. The Irish have ancestry from the Britons and the Celts. The English have ancestry from the Britons, Celts and Anglo-Saxons. The English took the language and culture from the Anglo-Saxons and today are known as Anglo-Saxon. But ethnically, they descended from the Britons. Can I still call the English, English? Of course I can. But I can also point out that it doesn't mean the English or more closely related to the Germans than they are to the Irish. (Likewise, the French are primarily the Gauls, not the German Francs).

 

[theliq]

YOU ARE AN I D I O T.......like Jstone and others you should be BANNED from this SITE Quick Fast

Sorry bout that,



1. Now look we all know where the arabs in Israel came from, lets be men.
2. They came from Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, and surrounding *hell holes*.
3. We know this, lets stop *all* the bullshit.
4. There was never a *home land* for arabs in Israel.
5. Never a working government, never a form of currency, never a heritage.
6. Just a bunch of arabs showed up to stake claims on Israel, when the Jews came back home in 1948.
7. This too shall pass, not to worry people of Israel.
8. Link:Hamas: 'Resistance' against Israel is only option left for Palestinians - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News


""The Palestinian people do not beg the world for a state, and the state can't be created through decisions and initiatives," Haniyeh said. "States liberate their land first and then the political body can be established."



9. And why don't they, because they know Israel will end up running them into the seas.
10. Some stupid cleric in Iran thinks he has something to do with Israel, bring it Iran, and watch your whole country go up in fucking smoke you stupid bastards!



Regards,
SirJamesofTexas