There are no solutions for Iraq. Not anymore.

[Geaux4it]

You state there was no way for an extension of SoFA except you forgot to add factual information to back your claim.

Was the SOFA extended beyond 2010? No, That is my fact. You and Krauthammer think it could have been extended but you have no facts to back it up. And you never will find a fact that supports your outlandish claim.

My original fact that you are ignoring was that Iraq was a two year old totally sovereign state by the end of 2011. Obama had no cards or incentives to convince the people of Iraq that the fucked up job that Bush did in Iraq should be continued by the presence of combat troops and or trainers with immunity from Iraqi law.

Do the current 300 advisers have SOFA status?

I can wait

-Geaux

 

[whutTHEYsay]

And please let's not forget that democrats voted to invade as well as republicans.

That vote was correct and it was in October 2002 when there were no UN inspectors in Iraq. It was fair to assume Iraq had WMD. The vote was use fore 'if necessary' if diplomatic means could not resolve it. Diplomatic means was UN Inspections.

The inspectors returned in December 2002.

By late February no WMD were found and Iraq's cooperation was said to be proactive.

March 8 Bush and Blair sent a draft Resolution to the UNSC that Saddam Hussein could remain in power after ten days if the UN Inspectors declared Iraq free of WMD. Note that Bush could not make that offer if he had solid intelligence on March 8 that Iraq was hiding WMD. Bush would have had to share that intelligence to comply with UN Res 1441.


Nine days later there was not a single Democrat standing on the podium with Bush telling the world that he had intelligence that 'left no doubt' that Iraq was concealing the most lethal weapons ever devised from UN inspectors. That was a lie. No Democrat participated in that lie. That is all on the Decider who decided to LIE and start a war.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

Do the current 300 advisers have SOFA status?

I can wait

Had ISIS done their invasion in 2010 that would have changed the Iraqi Mindset too.

You don't do well with changed conditions on a timeline do you?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

To understand why there are no solutions, you have to understand what Bush and the Republicans did to Iraq to put that country in such a terrible position.

Of course, the invasion was the first problem. Iraq never attacked the United States. They didn't ask to be "freed". The saw us from the first as invaders, not liberators.

The most obvious is that Republicans and Bush had no idea there was a difference between Sunni and Shiite. All they saw were "Muslims". By not knowing the religions or the people, there was no understanding of what "not to do". So Republicans blundered into doing everything wrong they could possibly imagine.

Iraq had an active duty military of 250,000 and an inactive reserve of 500,000 making it one of the largest armies in the world. Bush and the Republicans fired them. Just let 250,000 armed and trained men go. Suddenly they had no jobs and no money for their families. But they still had their weapons and a new found hatred of the US.

If Bush and the GOP knew anything about the Iraqis, they never would have put Shiites into power thereby creating a sister state with Iran.

Republicans helped those Shiites author a right wing, extreme Islamic Constitution:

Article 2:

First: Islam is the official religion of the State and it is a fundamental source of legislation:

A. No law that contradicts the established provisions of Islam may be established.

Full Text of Iraqi Constitution

^ Iraq after Bush Left

^ Iraq under Obama

 

[Peach]

To understand why there are no solutions, you have to understand what Bush and the Republicans did to Iraq to put that country in such a terrible position.

Not really.

I understand that Obama has been president for the past 6 years, but was never qualified for the job, and has completely screwed up Iraq during this period.

It was screwed up, Bush had not the capacity either. But, it remains Obama's job now, no one "forced" him into office.

 

[NYcarbineer]

To understand why there are no solutions, you have to understand what Bush and the Republicans did to Iraq to put that country in such a terrible position.

Not really.

I understand that Obama has been president for the past 6 years, but was never qualified for the job, and has completely screwed up Iraq during this period.

Welcome to the board, Mr. Cheney.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

Obama had no "cards or incentives" So Obama becomes leader of the most powerful nation on Earth and it suddenly become impotent.

But Krauthammer said by 2009 that Petraeus and Bush had won the war by 2009 and the Iraq Army was trained and ready to defend itself. As powerful as America is Obama did not have any incentives to offer a sovereign nation to convince Iraqis in large numbers to grant foreign combat troops any immunity.

If Iraq was not ready in 2008 to be soveriegn Bush needed to convince Maliki to not insist the UN mandate for the occupation of Iraq to expire at the end of 2008.

Bush started the war wrong and apparently ended it wrong also.

 

[dilloduck]

Now is when shit happens. We can't be saddled by what happened in the past. If Obama isn't going to seek solutions to this situation and implement them then he needs to resign and let someone else to do. The excuse shit doesn't cut it in any world.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

. But it's our only chance to keep Iraq out of the hands of the Sunni jihadists of ISIS and the Shiite jihadists of Tehran.

Obama is responsible for Iraq crisis

Who and where are the Shiite jihadists that Obama is supposed to keep from getting control of Iraq?

Your argument and case gets more bizarre with every post.

 

[deltex1]

If you haven't figured it out after all these years, the problem transcends Iraq...the sooner we accept that fact we can then proceed to the "final solution".

 

[rdean]

Not really.

I understand that Obama has been president for the past 6 years, but was never qualified for the job, and has completely screwed up Iraq during this period.

Can you actually explain how you think Obama has completely screwed up
Iraq using facts as the basis for your evaluation? Or is all you can do is generalized right-winger cliche's and ignorance based slurs?

Obama is responsible for Iraq crisis

WASHINGTON — Yes, it is true that there was no al-Qaida in Iraq when George W. Bush took office. But it is equally true that there was essentially no al-Qaida in Iraq remaining when Barack Obama took office.

Which makes Bush responsible for the terrible costs incurred to defeat the 2003-09 jihadist war engendered by his invasion. We can debate forever whether those costs were worth it, but what is not debatable is Obama's responsibility for the return of the Islamist insurgency that had been routed by the time he became president.

By 2009, al-Qaida in Iraq had not just been decimated but humiliated by the American surge and the Anbar Awakening. Here were aggrieved Sunnis, having ferociously fought the Americans who had overthrown 80 years of Sunni hegemony, now reversing allegiance and joining the infidel invader in crushing, indeed extirpating from Iraq, their fellow Sunnis of al-Qaida.

At the same time, Shiite Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki turned the Iraqi army against radical Shiite militias from Basra all the way north to Baghdad.

The result? "A sovereign, stable and self-reliant Iraq." That's not Bush congratulating himself. That's Obama in December 2011 describing the Iraq we were leaving behind. He called it "an extraordinary achievement."

Which Obama proceeded to throw away. David Petraeus had won the war. Obama's one task was to conclude a status-of-forces agreement (SOFA) to solidify the gains. By Obama's own admission — in the case he's now making for a status-of-forces agreement with Afghanistan — such agreements are necessary "because after all the sacrifices we've made, we want to preserve the gains" achieved by war.

Which is what made his failure to do so in Iraq so disastrous. His excuse was his inability to get immunity for U.S. soldiers. Nonsense. Bush had worked out a compromise in his 2008 SOFA, as we have done with allies everywhere. The real problem was Obama's reluctance to maintain any significant presence in Iraq.

The result was predictable. And predicted. Overnight, Iran and its promotion of Shiite supremacy became the dominant influence in Iraq. The day after the U.S. departure, Maliki ordered the arrest of the Sunni vice president. He cut off funding for the Sons of Iraq, the Sunnis who had fought with us against al-Qaida. And subsequently so persecuted and alienated Sunnis that they were ready to welcome back al-Qaida in Iraq — rebranded in its Syrian refuge as the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria — as the lesser of two evils. Hence the stunningly swift ISIS capture of so much of Iraq.

But the jihadist revival is the result of a double Obama abdication: creating a vacuum not just in Iraq but in Syria.

Faced with a de facto jihadi state spanning both countries, a surprised Obama now has little choice but to try to re-create overnight, from scratch and in miniature, the kind of U.S. presence — providing intelligence, tactical advice and perhaps even air support — he abjured three years ago

His announcement that he is sending 300 military advisers is a pale substitute but the only option Obama has left himself. The leverage he forfeited will be hard to reclaim. But it's our only chance to keep Iraq out of the hands of the Sunni jihadists of ISIS and the Shiite jihadists of Tehran.

Obama is responsible for Iraq crisis

An opinion piece from Charles Krauthammer'? That's it? That's your "evidence"?

You've got to do better than that.

 

[rdean]

We invaded Iraq, destabilized the country, got tens of thousands of Americans and countless innocent other people maimed or killed and then we left without cleaning up our mess.

And please let's not forget that democrats voted to invade as well as republicans.

Not all democrats voted and when you have the president presenting evidence and saying you are with us or with the terrorists, there isn't any pressure. Oh wait.......

No one wants to be with the terrorists. Besides, who would have thought the president would lie us into a false war?

 

[whutTHEYsay]

No one wants to be with the terrorists. Besides, who would have thought the president would lie us into a false war?

The argument at the time of the vote was valid that Iraq could have WMD and coułd possibly end up in the hands of terrorists. That only in the context of the aftermath of the 9/11/01 terrorist attacks.

That vote was not to authorize war directly. It was to give Bush the best way of convincing Iraq and the UNSC to get inspections restarted and avoid war.

It worked. There was nothing shameful about Dems that gave Bush the authority to make a rather simple decision. If inspections resumed as they did war would not be necessary,

What was shameful and ignorant was Bush's lone decision to put an end to inspections so he could launch an invasion and occupy Iraq to find the WMD better than the inspectors.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

Now is when shit happens. We can't be saddled by what happened in the past. If Obama isn't going to seek solutions to this situation and implement them then he needs to resign and let someone else to do. The excuse shit doesn't cut it in any world.

Who says Obama is not seeking solutions? What are your solutions.

 

[Sallow]

To understand why there are no solutions, you have to understand what Bush and the Republicans did to Iraq to put that country in such a terrible position.

Not really.

I understand that Obama has been president for the past 6 years, but was never qualified for the job, and has completely screwed up Iraq during this period.

Invading Iraq is what screwed it up.

You folks were warned.

Well, what you were warned about?

Is here.

 

[rdean]

To understand why there are no solutions, you have to understand what Bush and the Republicans did to Iraq to put that country in such a terrible position.

Not really.

I understand that Obama has been president for the past 6 years, but was never qualified for the job, and has completely screwed up Iraq during this period.

Invading Iraq is what screwed it up.

You folks were warned.

Well, what you were warned about?

Is here.

Even the pope warned Bush.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

To understand why there are no solutions, you have to understand what Bush and the Republicans did to Iraq to put that country in such a terrible position.

Not really.

I understand that Obama has been president for the past 6 years, but was never qualified for the job, and has completely screwed up Iraq during this period.

Can you actually explain how you think Obama has completely screwed up
Iraq using facts as the basis for your evaluation? Or is all you can do is generalized right-winger cliche's and ignorance based slurs?

Yes, but you would ignore them.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

By 2009, al-Qaida in Iraq had not just been decimated but humiliated by the American surge and the Anbar Awakening. Here were aggrieved Sunnis, having ferociously fought the Americans who had overthrown 80 years of Sunni hegemony, now reversing allegiance and joining the infidel invader in crushing, indeed extirpating from Iraq, their fellow Sunnis of al-Qaida.

At the same time, Shiite Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki turned the Iraqi army against radical Shiite militias from Basra all the way north to Baghdad.

The result? "A sovereign, stable and self-reliant Iraq." That's not Bush congratulating himself. That's Obama in December 2011 describing the Iraq we were leaving behind. He called it "an extraordinary achievement."



Which Obama proceeded to throw away.

David Petraeus had won the war. Obama's one task was to conclude a status-of-forces agreement (SOFA) to solidify the gains. By Obama's own admission — in the case he's now making for a status-of-forces agreement with Afghanistan — such agreements are necessary "because after all the sacrifices we've made, we want to preserve the gains" achieved by war.

Which is what made his failure to do so in Iraq so disastrous. His excuse was his inability to get immunity for U.S. soldiers. Nonsense. Bush had worked out a compromise in his 2008 SOFA, as we have done with allies everywhere. The real problem was Obama's reluctance to maintain any significant presence

Obama is responsible for Iraq crisis

We know where Charles Krauthammer is coming from don't we? He can be proven wrong as he was in 2003 by refuting his bulkshit lie that Obama had the chance to get immunity for troops to stay in Iraq that would be approved by Iraq's parliament. Bush negotiated with a weak not sovereign government in 2008 and barely got the sOFA passed. In 2010 the Maliki government was stronger, a million man army and he headed a sovereign nation for two years.

No way was there going to be an extension of the SOFA without overthrowing the government again. No way.

The current events are on the sovereign government of Iraq and no one else.

Bush is responsible for creating the entire mess overall and putting the Maliki
Government in place.

It was Msliki that demanded the UN authorization for US troops be ended in 2009. Bush failed to get Maliki to abandon that since Maliki Could not be trusted to continue and hold the gains made by the start of 2009.


Krauthammer can be refuted several more ways and I will
so over time. So try not to run away.

Thanks for proving me right.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

You state there was no way for an extension of SoFA except you forgot to add factual information to back your claim.

Was the SOFA extended beyond 2010? No, That is my fact. You and Krauthammer think it could have been extended but you have no facts to back it up. And you never will find a fact that supports your outlandish claim.

My original fact that you are ignoring was that Iraq was a two year old totally sovereign state by the end of 2011. Obama had no cards or incentives to convince the people of Iraq that the fucked up job that Bush did in Iraq should be continued by the presence of combat troops and or trainers with immunity from Iraqi law.

Facts are things you ignore.

How the Obama administration bungled the Iraq withdrawal negotiations

 

[Quantum Windbag]

You state there was no way for an extension of SoFA except you forgot to add factual information to back your claim.

Was the SOFA extended beyond 2010? No, That is my fact. You and Krauthammer think it could have been extended but you have no facts to back it up. And you never will find a fact that supports your outlandish claim.

My original fact that you are ignoring was that Iraq was a two year old totally sovereign state by the end of 2011. Obama had no cards or incentives to convince the people of Iraq that the fucked up job that Bush did in Iraq should be continued by the presence of combat troops and or trainers with immunity from Iraqi law.

Obama insisted that immunity pass the council of representatives, which everyone told him would not happen.

As for cards, he could have added every soldier to the staff of the US Embassy, which would have automatically given them immunity from Iraqi laws. Would you like me to lay out some examples of incentives, like extra aid, he had the ability to offer? Or are you simply going to insist that Obama is a incompetent idiot?