Their 'separation of church and state' is just ugly anti-religion discrimination

[Tommy Tainant]

The tons of funds that taxpayers put into government school is not for education.


This is:

1. Factors to consider at the Church-state intersection:
   1. Many families favored the safety, discipline, and attention to character development in addition to academics, but would have to continue paying public school property taxes in addition to tuition.
   2. Teacher unions opposed any aid to schools that were not unionized.
   3. Urban parochial schools were serving a growing share of disadvantaged and frequently non-Catholic youngsters. In a study published in 1990, for example, the Rand Corporation found that, of the Catholic school students in these Catholic high schools in New York City, 75 to 90 percent were black or Hispanic.

Over 66 percent of the Catholic school graduates received the New York State Regents diploma to signify completion of an academically demanding college preparatory curriculum, while only about 5 percent of the public school students received this distinction;

The Catholic high schools graduated 95 percent of their students each year, while the public schools graduated slightly more 50 percent of their senior class;

The Catholic school students achieved an average combined SAT score of 803, while the public school students' average combined SAT score was 642;

60 percent of the Catholic school black students scored above the national average for black students on the SAT, and over 70 percent of public school black students scored below the same national average.

« More recent studies confirm these observations. http://www.heritage.org/research/urbanissues/bg1128.cfm



"Classes in Catholic parochial schools tended to be larger than in private schools in general. More than 62 percent of the Catholic parochial schools had an average class size of 25 or more, a substantially higher proportion than private schools overall (36 percent)."

Private Schools in the United States: A Statistical Profile, 1993-94 / Catholic-Parochial Schools

nces.ed.gov

"Catholic schools are attractive to non-Catholics for several reasons, parents and Catholic educators say. They offer the close supervision and small classes of private schools at a fraction of the cost - often as little as $1,000 a year. Most important, along with academics, many parents say, is that Catholic schools provide discipline and instruct students in morals and values through their religious teaching." More Non-Catholic Students Trying Catholic Schools (Published 1987)

You want to fund madrassas. .

 

[Ringtone]

To note, I read the hyperbole in response to your question and I want to first state I am in no way aligned with those view points.

That said, I only know what I've read about the system noted here, It is stated that funding a public school is hard because of so few kids, so people have started their own small schools for this venture. I will note that I fully support public schools but if this is the case in Maine, then it is. I also don't think people should have to bus their kids an hour away or something to attend school.

Now more to your question..........since it is the taxpayers kids going to these schools, I don't understand why you are unable to understand that they want some of that sent to private schools, especially since the public schools seem to not be able to meet the needs in this case. Now you have the question of the kinds of private schools to fund but that was not your question.

It's not hyperbole! It's the reality.

Moreover, Coyote has already indicated that she accepts the operative ratio decidendi of Carson v. Makin. See post #16. We just can't seem to get a straight answer from her on that score, anymore than we can get a straight answer from her as to why taxpayers should pay for public schools that violate their natural and constitutional rights, something you apparently think taxpayers should pay for too.

I wonder if we can get a straight answer from you, a little something more than sloganizing about, well, you know, hyperbole.

 

[bodecea]

Their 'separation of church and state' is just ugly anti-religion discrimination​

Opinion by Timothy P. Carney - Tuesday

The Left often tries to make you believe that discrimination is the only sin. Any law or policy or custom or fact of nature that might result in different people being treated differently is supposedly intolerable.

Most Democrats believe “singlism” — discrimination against the unmarried — is a real problem, according to a recent poll. Any joking about your own COVID case is “ablelism.” And the charge of “transphobia” gets thrown around for almost anything.

But don't be fooled. Leftists hold one form discrimination very dear. In fact, it is almost a first principle of their ideology.

The liberal minority on the Supreme Court showed on Tuesday its dedication to anti-religious discrimination. In an angry dissent in the case Carson v. Makin, the three liberal justices chastised the majority for striking down a law that explicitly discriminated against religious institutions.

The liberal justices called their principle “separation of church and state,” and claimed it was rooted in the First Amendment. But the legal or moral principle they champion — and on which the Maine law just struck down was based — is simply that government ought to discriminate against religious institutions.

Maine has many small and shrinking towns, some of which are pretty isolated. Rather than try to stand up or prop up unsustainable public schools where there are few students, Maine pays part of the tuition of parents in these rural towns to send their children to their private schools. But the law has two limitations: parents must choose a school that is accredited by the regional accreditation body, and the schools cannot be religious.

So the state will pay tuition for any accredited private school, teaching any ideology or worldview, backed by any organization — unless that accredited school is something people recognize to be religious.

This is laughable in an era when progressivism has effectively taken the status of a religion. Liberal counties and cities aren’t even pretending to be value-neutral anymore. They are explicitly using public schools to advance their religion, which is characterized in part by its absolutist moralism on transgenderism and the primacy of racial identify.

But back to Maine: parents could even send their kids to school in Canada or Switzerland under this tuition program. They could use these tax dollars to send their kids to all-girls’ schools, or to French-language schools. The schools eligible under this program could also be boarding schools. Schools receiving this money could have no set curriculum at all, like Bluehill Harbor School, or they could be explicit culture-warrior schools, such as Walnut Hill School for the Arts.

They just can’t be “sectarian,” which means the institutions cannot profess a system of belief that involves God.

This is obviously illegal discrimination, rooted in a history of unsavory anti-Catholic ideology. Yet in their angry dissent, the liberal justices claimed they were simply upholding “separation between church and state that the Framers fought to build.” Of course, the Constitution doesn’t mention a “separation of church of state.” It only forbids the establishment of a state religion, and prevents any restriction on religious practice.

The First Amendment says “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.” This does not entail that if you do not discriminate against all religions, you are somehow implementing a theocracy.

You would have to be insane to believe that opening up private-school scholarship funding to Protestant, Jewish, Muslim, Catholic, Orthodox, Buddhist, and Zoroastrian schools was “establishing” a state religion. You would need to be an idiot to believe that letting some parents send their state scholarships to a religious school — any religion — is theocracy.

Instead of insanity or idiocy, I believe the smarter commentators and the liberal justices are motivated by a secular understanding of purity. They believe that government money is somehow defiled if any religious institution gets its hands on it.

This is perhaps bigotry. The rabid secularists really do seem to believe religious people have cooties. You can see the bigotry most clearly when folks on the Left falsely assume that Christian conservatives hate Jews and Muslims as much as the anti-Christian Left hates us.

It’s an ugly bigotry against religious institutions that infects too many on the Left. They can call it “separation of church and state” but what they really mean is “religious institutions are gross and should be relegated to second-class status.”

MSN

______________________________________________

The article is a brilliantly reasoned and scathing rebuke of the Court's remaining Marxist justices vis-a-vis the left's false and ideologically tyrannical doctrine of the separation of church and state. The decision is a long overdue adjustment against the trend set over 50 years ago by the liberal Warren Court and a huge step forward toward universal school choice.

It'll be cool when the state tells you what religion is allowed.

 

[pknopp]

It's not hyperbole! It's the reality.

Moreover, Coyote has already indicated that she accepts the operative ratio decidendi of Carson v. Makin. See post #16. We just can't seem to get a straight answer from her on that score, anymore than we can get a straight answer from her as to why taxpayers should pay for public schools that violate their natural and constitutional rights, something you apparently think taxpayers should pay for too.

I wonder if we can get a straight answer from you, a little something more than sloganizing about, well, you know, hyperbole.

I will then argue I should not have to pay for a military that offends me in what it does. Others can decide to not fund this or not fund that. Yippee.

You pay your taxes, if you want to send your kid to a private school that school can get funding. I fail to see your problem.

 

[Ringtone]

It'll be cool when the state tells you what religion is allowed.

What?! What's that supposed to mean?

 

[Ringtone]

I will then argue I should not have to pay for a military that offends me in what it does. Others can decide to not fund this or not fund that. Yippee.

You pay your taxes, if you want to send your kid to a private school that school can get funding. I fail to see your problem.

Are you claiming that we have universal school choice in this country? Since when, especially in blue states. What are you talking about?

 

[pknopp]

Are you claiming that we have universal school choice in this country? Since when, especially in blue states. What are you talking about?

I'm discussing the issue presented here by this courts ruling. You are mindlessly ranting.

 

[GMCGeneral]

Why should taxpayers pay for any private school, much less a religious one?

It's something you Leftists hate called freedom. People should be able to use their money as they, and not Big Daddy Government, see fit. And if that means taking money away from those failed cesspools, then so be it.

 

[pknopp]

It's something you Leftists hate called freedom. People should be able to use their money as they, and not Big Daddy Government, see fit. And if that means taking money away from those failed cesspools, then so be it.

So I can withhold the taxes I pay that go to bombing other countries?

 

[Ringtone]

I pay taxes for the governement schools that, as I proved, don't teach, and indoctrinate instead, and then love my children enought to pay the costs and sacrifices to home school.

It appears that either you opt for indoctrination and corruption of your children, or just don't care enough about them.


I get no tax break for home schooling, I just support you.

I'm in the very same boat. There's something seriously wrong with the minds of persons like Coyote. They seem to be utterly incapable of sociopolitical empathy. They seem to be soulless, mindless, and impenetrably stupid.

 

[bodecea]

Never thought I would se a proposal to bring in Sharia Law..

But here we are

 

[bodecea]

I'm in the very same boat. There's something seriously wrong with the minds of persons like Coyote. They seem to be utterly incapable of sociopolitical empathy. They seem to be soulless, mindless, and impenetrably stupid.

You must have gone to a red state school.

 

[Ringtone]

You want to fund madrassas. .

Why are you trolling this thread? In the United Kingdom one can send one's children to the school of their choice, secular or religious.

 

[Ringtone]

You must have gone to a red state school.

Actually, I attended a public school from first to seventh grade while my father attended night school studying law and established a reputation. He was a maverick. He didn't come from a pedigree or money or attend a prestigious school. But he proved to be a brilliant litigant of commercial law. He was able to get us in a great private school.

But what's your point? You never seem to have one.

 

[Moonglow]

Their 'separation of church and state' is just ugly anti-religion discrimination​

Opinion by Timothy P. Carney - Tuesday

The Left often tries to make you believe that discrimination is the only sin. Any law or policy or custom or fact of nature that might result in different people being treated differently is supposedly intolerable.

Most Democrats believe “singlism” — discrimination against the unmarried — is a real problem, according to a recent poll. Any joking about your own COVID case is “ablelism.” And the charge of “transphobia” gets thrown around for almost anything.

But don't be fooled. Leftists hold one form discrimination very dear. In fact, it is almost a first principle of their ideology.

The liberal minority on the Supreme Court showed on Tuesday its dedication to anti-religious discrimination. In an angry dissent in the case Carson v. Makin, the three liberal justices chastised the majority for striking down a law that explicitly discriminated against religious institutions.

The liberal justices called their principle “separation of church and state,” and claimed it was rooted in the First Amendment. But the legal or moral principle they champion — and on which the Maine law just struck down was based — is simply that government ought to discriminate against religious institutions.

Maine has many small and shrinking towns, some of which are pretty isolated. Rather than try to stand up or prop up unsustainable public schools where there are few students, Maine pays part of the tuition of parents in these rural towns to send their children to their private schools. But the law has two limitations: parents must choose a school that is accredited by the regional accreditation body, and the schools cannot be religious.

So the state will pay tuition for any accredited private school, teaching any ideology or worldview, backed by any organization — unless that accredited school is something people recognize to be religious.

This is laughable in an era when progressivism has effectively taken the status of a religion. Liberal counties and cities aren’t even pretending to be value-neutral anymore. They are explicitly using public schools to advance their religion, which is characterized in part by its absolutist moralism on transgenderism and the primacy of racial identify.

But back to Maine: parents could even send their kids to school in Canada or Switzerland under this tuition program. They could use these tax dollars to send their kids to all-girls’ schools, or to French-language schools. The schools eligible under this program could also be boarding schools. Schools receiving this money could have no set curriculum at all, like Bluehill Harbor School, or they could be explicit culture-warrior schools, such as Walnut Hill School for the Arts.

They just can’t be “sectarian,” which means the institutions cannot profess a system of belief that involves God.

This is obviously illegal discrimination, rooted in a history of unsavory anti-Catholic ideology. Yet in their angry dissent, the liberal justices claimed they were simply upholding “separation between church and state that the Framers fought to build.” Of course, the Constitution doesn’t mention a “separation of church of state.” It only forbids the establishment of a state religion, and prevents any restriction on religious practice.

The First Amendment says “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.” This does not entail that if you do not discriminate against all religions, you are somehow implementing a theocracy.

You would have to be insane to believe that opening up private-school scholarship funding to Protestant, Jewish, Muslim, Catholic, Orthodox, Buddhist, and Zoroastrian schools was “establishing” a state religion. You would need to be an idiot to believe that letting some parents send their state scholarships to a religious school — any religion — is theocracy.

Instead of insanity or idiocy, I believe the smarter commentators and the liberal justices are motivated by a secular understanding of purity. They believe that government money is somehow defiled if any religious institution gets its hands on it.

This is perhaps bigotry. The rabid secularists really do seem to believe religious people have cooties. You can see the bigotry most clearly when folks on the Left falsely assume that Christian conservatives hate Jews and Muslims as much as the anti-Christian Left hates us.

It’s an ugly bigotry against religious institutions that infects too many on the Left. They can call it “separation of church and state” but what they really mean is “religious institutions are gross and should be relegated to second-class status.”

MSN

______________________________________________

The article is a brilliantly reasoned and scathing rebuke of the Court's remaining Marxist justices vis-a-vis the left's false and ideologically tyrannical doctrine of the separation of church and state. The decision is a long overdue adjustment against the trend set over 50 years ago by the liberal Warren Court and a huge step forward toward universal school choice.

All churches should be taxed since we don't want religion left out of state activities.

 

[Ringtone]

But here we are

You're easily manipulated. See post #53. The UK has universal school choice. It's one of the few instances in which the imperatives of natural law relative to individual liberty prevails in the UK.

 

[PoliticalChic]

To note, I read the hyperbole in response to your question and I want to first state I am in no way aligned with those view points.

That said, I only know what I've read about the system noted here, It is stated that funding a public school is hard because of so few kids, so people have started their own small schools for this venture. I will note that I fully support public schools but if this is the case in Maine, then it is. I also don't think people should have to bus their kids an hour away or something to attend school.

Now more to your question..........since it is the taxpayers kids going to these schools, I don't understand why you are unable to understand that they want some of that sent to private schools, especially since the public schools seem to not be able to meet the needs in this case. Now you have the question of the kinds of private schools to fund but that was not your question.

I am active in several home school groups, and we have put together schools with volunteer teachers.....I was one.....and no funds other than our own are involved.
I agree with your statement: "....since it is the taxpayers kids going to these schools, I don't understand why you are unable to understand that they want some of that sent to private schools, especially since the public schools seem to not be able to meet the needs in this case."


There has never been any separation of church and state before Stalin's pal FDR.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Are you denying that indoctrination centers is exactly what government provides???



Watch me prove you lying scum:


"School's Nation of Islam Handout Paints Founding Fathers as Racists
The teacher also told Sommer that her son was not supposed to take the Nation of Islam handout home. It was supposed to stay in the classroom. That bit of news caused her great alarm.
“The fact that students were cautioned against allowing their parents to see anything is deeply troubling,” West told me. “The only reasonable explanation is they don’t want parents to know what it is their children are learning.”

3. Under pressure from transgender activists, progressive politicians, teacher unions, and the education establishment, and despite parents’ opposition, America’s public schools are capitulating to ideologues and implementing the radical transgender agenda with full force.
...regardless of biological sex, .... Activists want every child, from kindergarten on, to learn that “sex” is something “assigned at birth” rather than a biological reality. They want children to think that individuals get to choose their own “gender identity” (not limited to male or female), and that everyone else must affirm that “gender identity” as true.


...nothing that parents (or teachers) can do to prevent the schools from imposing policies designed to indoctrinate children with gender ideology.

In public education, the “deep state” describes a coalition of various groups – including teachers’ unions, progressive advocacy groups, major corporations, and philanthropists --that work together to promote the progressive worldview..."
America’s Public Education System: The Ultimate Deep State





4. The National Education Association approved a new "business item" expressing support for abortion access during its annual conference in Houston.

"[T]he NEA will include an assertion of our defense of a person's right to control their own body, especially for women, youth, and sexually marginalized people," the resolution states. "The NEA vigorously opposes all attacks on the right to choose and stands on the fundamental right to abortion under Roe v. Wade."

The NEA is the largest teachers' union in the U.S. with more than 3 million members. It collected nearly $400 million from American educators in 2018, according to federal labor filings. The union is also one of the most politically active in the country, spending $70 million on politics and lobbying in 2017 and 2018. Nearly all of the union's political action committee spending went to Democrats during the midterm cycle, according to the Center for Responsive Politics.


NEA's 2019 adopted New Business Items (NBIs) reveal what savvy teachers have known for decades: state and national teachers' unions are essentially the political action committee of the Far-Left,"
Largest U.S. Teachers' Union Endorses Abortion




5. the 20-minute video being shown in American classrooms entitled The

Story of Stuff; a catchy title to appeal to grade school kids. This piece of anti-capitalist propaganda was

put together by Greenpeace member Annie Leonard.

6. NYC schools allow kids to go on #ClimateStrike​

“TEN YEARS. We have ten years to save the planet,” Mayor Bill de Blasio cautioned in a tweet. “Today’s leaders are making decisions for our environment that our kids will have to live with. New York City stands with our young people. They’re our conscience. We support the 9/20 #ClimateStrike.”

Legions of adolescent activists across the globe are expected to demand immediate action to combat climate change in advance of a major UN conference on the issue next week.

As long as mom and dad sanction their principled truancy, absent kids won’t have attendance records dinged, the DOE said.

The September 20th event will feature Sweden’s “Climate Crisis” sweetheart, 16-year old Greta Thunberg.

Teen activist and Swedish sensation Greta Thunberg, who recently docked her zero-emissions sailboat in New York, will speak at the event which will snake its way through lower Manhattan to Battery Park.

Kids with parental permission to attend will be granted excused absences from school, Education Department officials tweeted Thursday.

The infamous “Green New Deal” will be promoted as well.

The New York City climate strike is backed by more than 100 environmental and political activist groups and other institutions, including New York Communities for Change, The New School and the Sierra Club.

The protesters’ demands include a “Green New Deal” that would end fossil fuel extraction and move the nation onto entirely renewable energy sources by 2030. Green New Deal policies have been backed by the likes of U.S. Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders.

Personally, if I were one of the kids, I might argue about going to school at all. After all, if the Earth only has 10 more years before we are going to die, wouldn’t it be better to spend the time having fun or spending quality time with family?

On the other hand, if the New York City school officials were really invested in solving the climate crisis, wouldn’t they emphasize science and math? Perhaps keeping the kids in school and having them conduct experiments or perform calculations would inspire an interest in real climate science.

One theory that seems to prove true and is certainly consistent with what is happening with the New York City schools: When global problems are emphasized by locals, serious local matters are being ignored.

Case in point: New York state test results for third- through eighth-grade public school students are out, and the results are underwhelming.

Statewide, more than half the kids flunked yet again: Just 45.4% were deemed proficient in reading and 46.7% in math. In the city, 47.4% passed the reading test, while 45.6% got by in math.

Think the problem’s skimpy funding? Sorry: In 2017, the Empire Center’s E.J. McMahon reported in May, New York shelled out 89% more per kid than the national average. And that gap has been growing fast: In 1997, per-pupil outlays here were just 45% above average.

…In the city Thursday, Mayor Bill de Blasio and Schools Chancellor Richard Carranza tried to spin the results positively. The pass rate in English, they noted, is up 0.7 percentage points — and three whole points in math.

“Growth counts for something,” Carranza insisted.

Huh? That paltry uptick is what they’re proud of? Even though more than half the kids bombed? Please.

Notably, kids in the one category of public schools de Blasio and Carranza (and their union pals) don’t run — i.e., the charters — beat their counterparts in the regular schools by more than 10 percentage points in both English and math.

At least the kids won’t be flying private jets to attend the event. That makes them substantially less hypocritical than the celebrities who will be indoctrinating them during the Manhattan event.



NYC schools allow kids to go on #ClimateStrike

7. “Fifth-grade teacher defends wearing 'Columbus was a murderer' shirt to school” https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/oct/16/fifth-grade-teacher-defends- earing-columbus-was-a/​

8. “Seattle Public Schools Say Math Is Racist​

The Seattle Public Schools Ethnic Studies Advisory Committee (ESAC) released a rough draft of notes for its Math Ethnic Studies framework in late September, which attempts to connects math to a history of oppression.” Seattle Public Schools Say Math Is Racist

9. “The sex and gender revolutionaries have officially taken over the Austin Independent School District without firing a single shot. In spite of overwhelming opposition from parents and pastors, the district’s trustees voted early Tuesday morning to implement a pornographic sex education policy that includes instruction on anal sex and how to place a condom on an erect penis.


11. “Racial Literacy Curriculum,” elementary schools in Virginia, North Carolina, New Jersey, New York, California, Rhode Island, Missouri, and Illinois have all adopted the mind-blowing, politically-charged brainwash that they tout as education. Topics for Kindergarten to Grade 8 include: implicit bias, white privilege, intersectionality, LGBTQ issues, racism as a “primary institution of the US,” and other such leftist agenda talking points.” EXCLUSIVE: New Leftist ‘Racial Literacy Curriculum’ Brainwashing Elementary School Children

12. The Pollyana Curriculum…nationwide

“Beginning in Grade 3, the Pollyanna "Racial Literacy Curriculum" asks students to become activists in order to achieve leftist goals. The 3rd Grade chapter is entitled "Stories of Activism – How One Voice Can Change a Community." The expected result is for students to understand "how we can be agents of communal, social, political, and environmental change."

…Pollyanna takes leftist activism to new heights, fabricating an image of a racist America that children are taught to rebel against.

By Grade 8,after nine years of acute indoctrination, the children are ready to fight on behalf of leftists in America. "tudents will set commitments for rectifying current social ills, such as learning and planning how to carry out anti-racist activism and/or social advocacy in their communities and/or to improve their everyday lives." The 8th Grade chapter is entitled "Racism as a Primary 'Institution' of the U.S. – How We May Combat Systemic Inequality." EXCLUSIVE: Leftist Activism Is A Requirement Of New Elementary School Curriculum



13. “Minnesota ‘Teacher of the Year’ takes knee during National Anthem at NCAA title game” Minnesota ‘Teacher of the Year’ takes knee during National Anthem at NCAA title game | The College Fix

14. "School in Brooklyn Hands Out “Drag Queen in Training” Stickers to 4-Year-Olds” School in Brooklyn Hands Out “Drag Queen in Training” Stickers to 4-Year-Olds

15. “Teacher: “No Regrets” for Desecrating American Flag in Classroom” Teacher: “No Regrets” for Desecrating American Flag in Classroom - Todd Starnes​

The father of a fifth grader demanded to know who gave the school district the right to teach his child how to have anal and oral sex.” Texas School District Implements Pornographic Sex Education Policy

Per the 'disagree' emoticon'......what is there to disagree with.....all of this is factual.

 

[PoliticalChic]

You want to fund madrassas. .

I am in favor of individual liberty.

Parents should send their children where they wish with government funds going were the children go.

In NYC, all children, no matter the school, take stardized tests.

Mine, home schooled, did too.

If the school does not produce children who pass the tests, the school is de-certified.

The same should be done with failing government schools.

 

[PoliticalChic]

It'll be cool when the state tells you what religion is allowed.

Where has that happened other than the indoctrination by government school????

Only your religion, Militant Secularism, does that.

'

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