The unsustainability of "green" energy

[flacaltenn]

Not gonna happen,.. would be an enviro disaster if it did. You have no concept of what it takes to store DAYS of electricity when the wind don't blow. You can't power a steel mill from batteries for a day or a city of 40,000 for more than a couple hours.

Do the math. Do the economics.. You're listening to the dying gasps of an industry that has been overhyped and over-sold..

Oh those with no imagination and willful ignorance, in a word, conservative, ought to do some research before they broadcast foolishly. See:

Scientists Store Solar Energy in Desert Sand - The Green Optimistic

Keep in mind, the first cars need a crank to start (I hope that's not too abstract for the conservative set).

Would be nice to see the environmental impact statement of making 100 acres of desert glow red for a few hours every day.. Wouldn't it?

What you DON'T know --- is that the CSP (concentrated solar or "death ray" technology) that would USE this approach is already failing to produce anywhere close to modeling and estimates. There has a been a fair trial of this solar variant and the results are dismal. .Look up IvanPah for instance. You HAVE NO excess to store in the sand --- if your actual generation is 40% of what folks paid for..


And "sand storage" does NOT couple well with the majority of solar generation which is PV panels. Wouldn't work to convert electricity to heat and back again.

So there you are ---- BARELY paying attention to the details, and telling tech folks like myself that I just need more childish OPTIMISM and HOPE. When YOU --- have no freakin' idea how any of this works or is related.

How many efforts failed in the development of heavier than air vehicles? How many rockets blew up on the launching pad before we went men to the moon?

Nawww.. We are WAY past those analogies with solar and wind. We have MUCH BETTER solar panels on the Mars Rovers. FAR superior to what's used for commercial power. WE KNOW how to make better panels. In this case -- you'd have to mine every ARSENIC resource on the planet to provide enough GA-Arsenside to produce them. And leftist enviros would PROBABLY excuse that. But even then -- the cost would 4 or 5 times more than Silicon panels.

Rockets STILL blow up on the pads. It's not a measure of tech development. And there are DETAILS to the tech that greenies have no clues about. Like making the sand glow for 4 hours a day.

THere are no ALTERNATIVES on the list. Just a bunch of supplements. And we could push those supplements in BETTER DIRECTIONS --- than by forcing them to replace reliable 24/7/365 power generation. Things like renewable powered desalinization and hydrogen fuel production --- where the STORAGE is inherent in the process itself..

So, you're an expert (?) and yet solar and renewable energy exists, and is providing power throughout our nation. Maybe you ought to spend some time educating all those engineers and entrepreneurs wasting their time and money - instead of playing the expert on the Internet.

I "exist" --- therefore I "am".. Very deep !!!! LOL
Lot of space between existing and being an "alternative" to anything..

We are wasting too much time and money right now on wind/solar and in general. There will always be a solar biz of SOME size, but it's not a major market. Check out the 20 year solar ETFunds on the stock market -- don't listen to me.. Looks like a dead cat bounce..

Those engineers should be educating YOU.. On grid solar will never supply more than 3.5% of total grid energy -- and will only do that at mid-day peak and only in certain geographical areas. It's what's called a "peaker" source. Where does that come from you ask? Simple. Daytime summer PEAK on grid is about 20% higher than at 10PM at night. So allowing for safety margins it can cause a DISPLACEMENT of the PRIMARY generators for about 4 hours a day. 4/24 * 20% = 3.4%

Note that the PRIMARY capacity still has to BE THERE to back it up when the sun don't shine. Somebody's gonna pay for IDLING the primary source during that time and the inefficiencies of throttling it up and down.

Wind is so entirely sketchy that if they took it off the massive Govt Nipple it would die tomorrow. That IS an entire waste of time and money when used ON GRID. There are uses for it OFF GRID.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Oh those with no imagination and willful ignorance, in a word, conservative, ought to do some research before they broadcast foolishly. See:

Scientists Store Solar Energy in Desert Sand - The Green Optimistic

Keep in mind, the first cars need a crank to start (I hope that's not too abstract for the conservative set).

Would be nice to see the environmental impact statement of making 100 acres of desert glow red for a few hours every day.. Wouldn't it?

What you DON'T know --- is that the CSP (concentrated solar or "death ray" technology) that would USE this approach is already failing to produce anywhere close to modeling and estimates. There has a been a fair trial of this solar variant and the results are dismal. .Look up IvanPah for instance. You HAVE NO excess to store in the sand --- if your actual generation is 40% of what folks paid for..


And "sand storage" does NOT couple well with the majority of solar generation which is PV panels. Wouldn't work to convert electricity to heat and back again.

So there you are ---- BARELY paying attention to the details, and telling tech folks like myself that I just need more childish OPTIMISM and HOPE. When YOU --- have no freakin' idea how any of this works or is related.

How many efforts failed in the development of heavier than air vehicles? How many rockets blew up on the launching pad before we went men to the moon?

Nawww.. We are WAY past those analogies with solar and wind. We have MUCH BETTER solar panels on the Mars Rovers. FAR superior to what's used for commercial power. WE KNOW how to make better panels. In this case -- you'd have to mine every ARSENIC resource on the planet to provide enough GA-Arsenside to produce them. And leftist enviros would PROBABLY excuse that. But even then -- the cost would 4 or 5 times more than Silicon panels.

Rockets STILL blow up on the pads. It's not a measure of tech development. And there are DETAILS to the tech that greenies have no clues about. Like making the sand glow for 4 hours a day.

THere are no ALTERNATIVES on the list. Just a bunch of supplements. And we could push those supplements in BETTER DIRECTIONS --- than by forcing them to replace reliable 24/7/365 power generation. Things like renewable powered desalinization and hydrogen fuel production --- where the STORAGE is inherent in the process itself..

So, you're an expert (?) and yet solar and renewable energy exists, and is providing power throughout our nation. Maybe you ought to spend some time educating all those engineers and entrepreneurs wasting their time and money - instead of playing the expert on the Internet.

I "exist" --- therefore I "am".. Very deep !!!! LOL
Lot of space between existing and being an "alternative" to anything..

We are wasting too much time and money right now on wind/solar and in general. There will always be a solar biz of SOME size, but it's not a major market. Check out the 20 year solar ETFunds on the stock market -- don't listen to me.. Looks like a dead cat bounce..

Those engineers should be educating YOU.. On grid solar will never supply more than 3.5% of total grid energy -- and will only do that at mid-day peak and only in certain geographical areas. It's what's called a "peaker" source. Where does that come from you ask? Simple. Daytime summer PEAK on grid is about 20% higher than at 10PM at night. So allowing for safety margins it can cause a DISPLACEMENT of the PRIMARY generators for about 4 hours a day. 4/24 * 20% = 3.4%

Note that the PRIMARY capacity still has to BE THERE to back it up when the sun don't shine. Somebody's gonna pay for IDLING the primary source during that time and the inefficiencies of throttling it up and down.

Wind is so entirely sketchy that if they took it off the massive Govt Nipple it would die tomorrow. That IS an entire waste of time and money when used ON GRID. There are uses for it OFF GRID.

Your mind is a steel trap, unable to consider anything which is beyond your belief system. Why would I need natural gas or propane to heat water, if a black hose was filled and left in the hot sun for an hour? Of course (duh) that could not be done at midnight, but during the day such a technology saves some fuel oil & NG.

Wind is "sketchy", do you live in a cave? Windmills and sail boats existed for centuries before we began to burn coal and oil. Some areas of the country are always windy and some have over 300 days a year of sun. Why limit our energy sources to two, when there are many? Greed, ignorance or stubborn disregard for change!

 

[Old Rocks]

Two decades ago, we were told that the goal of solar for a dollar a watt was impossible. Now, they are installing 1.2 gigawatts of solar in Austin, Texas, for under 0.05 cents a watt.

Now, I have been working in a steel mill for about 15 years. And it is powered by the Bonneville Dam with a direct line to that source. However, we have a division, heat treating, that is on the common grid. A 2 megawatt/hr battery would protect the electronics in that division from the bumps on the line that create such havoc with our PLCs and drives. Also, in case of a grid failure, dropped transformer, ice storm, whatever, we could roll out what is in the furnaces and take the mill down softly.

Now, there are many square miles of roofs in the city in the form of warehouse and commercial roofs. Perfect place for thin film solar. So the city could produce much of the power that it uses during the day,.

You're confusing generation cost with installation cost on solar. Cannot believe EITHER figure unless you personally go over the books and see how they are cooked. Often the price of LAND is left out, or MAINTENANCE or Subsidies/Rebates not included.

You 2 MW-hr "back-up" is nothing more than a big UPS. That's not unusual. And it doesn't have to carry the ENTIRE PLANT. You're confusing "grid scale storage" claims with SOLELY filling the HUGE gaps in service from renewables.

In TRUTH GSStorage does MANY things, sometimes simultaneously. Like frequency regulation, or switching on the grid or covering the start-up time of a back-up generator. VERY RARELY does GSStorage mean filling in for the sketchy and UNPREDICTABLE performance of renewables for gaps longer than 20 minutes or so.

But they WANT to confuse the issue. Because it lifts the hearts of the faithful. Even Cali which has a GSS initiative is not planning for more than 1.8GW-hrs by 2030.. TOTAL -- on their grid. It's NOT for getting large grids thru the night or for consecutive days of bad wind performance. I don't know where you EVER got that idea.

Texas Utility Oncor Wants to Invest $5.2B in Storage: Can It Get Approval?

Oncor is asking the Texas deregulated market to allow 5 gigawatts of utility-owned, distributed grid batteries.

Texas Utility Oncor Wants to Invest $5.2B in Storage: Can It Get Approval?

Yes, by all means, let us try to head off the idea of making generation by renewables even more efficient. Luddites forever!

 

[flacaltenn]

Two decades ago, we were told that the goal of solar for a dollar a watt was impossible. Now, they are installing 1.2 gigawatts of solar in Austin, Texas, for under 0.05 cents a watt.

Now, I have been working in a steel mill for about 15 years. And it is powered by the Bonneville Dam with a direct line to that source. However, we have a division, heat treating, that is on the common grid. A 2 megawatt/hr battery would protect the electronics in that division from the bumps on the line that create such havoc with our PLCs and drives. Also, in case of a grid failure, dropped transformer, ice storm, whatever, we could roll out what is in the furnaces and take the mill down softly.

Now, there are many square miles of roofs in the city in the form of warehouse and commercial roofs. Perfect place for thin film solar. So the city could produce much of the power that it uses during the day,.

You're confusing generation cost with installation cost on solar. Cannot believe EITHER figure unless you personally go over the books and see how they are cooked. Often the price of LAND is left out, or MAINTENANCE or Subsidies/Rebates not included.

You 2 MW-hr "back-up" is nothing more than a big UPS. That's not unusual. And it doesn't have to carry the ENTIRE PLANT. You're confusing "grid scale storage" claims with SOLELY filling the HUGE gaps in service from renewables.

In TRUTH GSStorage does MANY things, sometimes simultaneously. Like frequency regulation, or switching on the grid or covering the start-up time of a back-up generator. VERY RARELY does GSStorage mean filling in for the sketchy and UNPREDICTABLE performance of renewables for gaps longer than 20 minutes or so.

But they WANT to confuse the issue. Because it lifts the hearts of the faithful. Even Cali which has a GSS initiative is not planning for more than 1.8GW-hrs by 2030.. TOTAL -- on their grid. It's NOT for getting large grids thru the night or for consecutive days of bad wind performance. I don't know where you EVER got that idea.

Texas Utility Oncor Wants to Invest $5.2B in Storage: Can It Get Approval?

Oncor is asking the Texas deregulated market to allow 5 gigawatts of utility-owned, distributed grid batteries.

Texas Utility Oncor Wants to Invest $5.2B in Storage: Can It Get Approval?

Yes, by all means, let us try to head off the idea of making generation by renewables even more efficient. Luddites forever!

Sounds damn expensive for a drop in the bucket to me..

How far ya willing to push that? When the subsidies end -- all that storage cost gets rolled up into the price of wind and solar. Setting YOU BACK about a decade or more in cost performance and creating NEW and major enviro problems.. Great for miners and chemical companies tho..

 

[Old Rocks]

Were we to burn all the oil, coal, and natural gas, won't be anybody getting back with anybody else. A P-T event will ensue.

Horsepoo. The PETM was at least 7 degrees warmer than the present day and it was a Garden of Eden. Your extinction event bullshit, is just that, bullshit.

Dumbshit, I said P-T, as in Permian-Triassic. And it was far from a Garden of Eden. About a 95% loss of all species.

Yes, and the most likely cause was COLD, dumbfuck. Only you religious fanatics claim it was warmth.

Cold and heat. Whiplash effect. Saw the same thing in the Younger Dryas on a smaller scale. Fast drop of 5 to 10 F, a decade to a century, extinctions of large mammals in North America. A thousand years later, a fast, decade to century, increase in temperature of the same magnitude, more extinctions of large mammals in North America. In fact, about 70% of the large mammals in North America went extinct during the Younger Dryas.

Like I said, horse poo. There is ample evidence of a global ice age that lasted for who know's how long. There is ZERO empirical evidence for warmth. None, null, zero, zilch. The only "evidence" for warmth is in those ridiculously bad computer models. They have no basis in reality.

I see. So what you are saying is that we are still in the Younger Dryas? How interesting. If we are not, then obviously we warmed up at some point.

 

[Old Rocks]

I bet your great great grandpa saw the first horseless vehicle and yelled out, "get a horse".

You seriously think we want to drive this clown car


View attachment 87869


Instead of this

You're crazy

Since I was 21, I've always driven a van, Chevy, Dodge, Plymouth and recently a 2006 Odyssey and now a 2016 Odyssey. My fist car was a 1957, two door (210) Chevy Station Wagon which (gasp) my dad sold when I went on active duty. Why I surfed and Scuba Dove and needed the space to carry wet suits, boards and tanks the vans served as safari wagons on the CA Coast. A place to change, sleep and carry water and supplies which my wife and I still use when we go camping to Yosemite, Tahoe, and up the Coast from SF to Vancouver Island, down the coast to San Diego and East to Scottsdale to watch some spring training baseball.

All of which is evidence your post is a straw man, made of wet straw and dressed in an asbestos clothing, thus unable to burn.

A straw man???????


No one wants to drive piece of crap 125 year old technology electric cars.



.

Have you driven a Tesla? Why do you claim to speak for everyone, do you think (LOL) you are all knowing (you're not).

Have you even driven a golf cart, in use for decades?

Were you so engrossed in Fox News you missed the flight of an electric solar powered Air Craft?

Have you noticed solar panels on homes becoming more and more common? Have you never flown a kite, sailed under wind power or tried to run into the wind?

Have you ever seen a windmill?

Do you know the difference between potential and kinetic energy?



Did you read this:

Scientists Store Solar Energy in Desert Sand - The Green Optimistic

What you mad that electric cars is almost 200 year old technology?



Feel the bear513 burn....


Btw you think an electric could out preform a diesel one of these?



View attachment 88015

Absolutely. An electric motor has the most torque at 0 rpm. As soon as the batteries get the energy density to that of liquid fuel. When that occurs, at an affordable price, the diesel engine will go the way of the horse.

 

[Old Rocks]

acctually the usa is big enough that when the sun sets in california it rises in new foundland.

and somewhere on the continental USA the wind blows.

so anyone who thinks that theres not enough USA to make " Green", id say "American" energy possible is a moron who does not understand how big how great the USA is

the USA would not have a problem to maintain a level of energy use 10 times greater then today with sustainable energy

your just too fucked up to do it

You clearly have no idea what the heck you're talking about. Energy transmission across vast distances requires extremely high voltages to do. Voltages you don't get from wind or solar. Might I suggest you actually learn about what you're spewing. Here's a homework problem for you. How long would it take to recharge a Tesla using just solar power?

LOL Damn, so we don't have the technology to step up voltage? It will take the same amount of time to charge a Tesla with solar energy as with coal, hydro, wind, natural gas, or nuclear. God, you are getting as stupid as LaDumbkopf.

 

[Old Rocks]

Two decades ago, we were told that the goal of solar for a dollar a watt was impossible. Now, they are installing 1.2 gigawatts of solar in Austin, Texas, for under 0.05 cents a watt.

Now, I have been working in a steel mill for about 15 years. And it is powered by the Bonneville Dam with a direct line to that source. However, we have a division, heat treating, that is on the common grid. A 2 megawatt/hr battery would protect the electronics in that division from the bumps on the line that create such havoc with our PLCs and drives. Also, in case of a grid failure, dropped transformer, ice storm, whatever, we could roll out what is in the furnaces and take the mill down softly.

Now, there are many square miles of roofs in the city in the form of warehouse and commercial roofs. Perfect place for thin film solar. So the city could produce much of the power that it uses during the day,.

You're confusing generation cost with installation cost on solar. Cannot believe EITHER figure unless you personally go over the books and see how they are cooked. Often the price of LAND is left out, or MAINTENANCE or Subsidies/Rebates not included.

You 2 MW-hr "back-up" is nothing more than a big UPS. That's not unusual. And it doesn't have to carry the ENTIRE PLANT. You're confusing "grid scale storage" claims with SOLELY filling the HUGE gaps in service from renewables.

In TRUTH GSStorage does MANY things, sometimes simultaneously. Like frequency regulation, or switching on the grid or covering the start-up time of a back-up generator. VERY RARELY does GSStorage mean filling in for the sketchy and UNPREDICTABLE performance of renewables for gaps longer than 20 minutes or so.

But they WANT to confuse the issue. Because it lifts the hearts of the faithful. Even Cali which has a GSS initiative is not planning for more than 1.8GW-hrs by 2030.. TOTAL -- on their grid. It's NOT for getting large grids thru the night or for consecutive days of bad wind performance. I don't know where you EVER got that idea.

Texas Utility Oncor Wants to Invest $5.2B in Storage: Can It Get Approval?

Oncor is asking the Texas deregulated market to allow 5 gigawatts of utility-owned, distributed grid batteries.

Texas Utility Oncor Wants to Invest $5.2B in Storage: Can It Get Approval?

Yes, by all means, let us try to head off the idea of making generation by renewables even more efficient. Luddites forever!

Sounds damn expensive for a drop in the bucket to me..

How far ya willing to push that? When the subsidies end -- all that storage cost gets rolled up into the price of wind and solar. Setting YOU BACK about a decade or more in cost performance and creating NEW and major enviro problems.. Great for miners and chemical companies tho..

And the engineers at Oncor totally disagree with you.

Oncor proposes giant leap for grid, batteries

The Dallas-based transmission company is proposing the installation of 5,000 megawatts of batteries not just in its service area but across Texas’ entire grid. That is the equivalent of four nuclear power plants on a grid with a capacity of about 81,000 megawatts.

Ranging from refrigerator- to dumpster-size, the batteries would be installed behind shopping centers and in neighborhoods. Statewide, Oncor estimates a total price tag of $5.2 billion. A study commissioned by Oncor with the Brattle Group, a Massachusetts consulting firm that provides power market analysis for state regulators, says the project would not raise bills. Revenue from rental of storage space on the batteries, along with a decrease in power prices and transmission costs, should actually decrease the average Texas residential power bill 34 cents to $179.66 a month, the report said.

 

[Old Rocks]

acctually the usa is big enough that when the sun sets in california it rises in new foundland.

and somewhere on the continental USA the wind blows.

so anyone who thinks that theres not enough USA to make " Green", id say "American" energy possible is a moron who does not understand how big how great the USA is

the USA would not have a problem to maintain a level of energy use 10 times greater then today with sustainable energy

your just too fucked up to do it

You clearly have no idea what the heck you're talking about. Energy transmission across vast distances requires extremely high voltages to do. Voltages you don't get from wind or solar. Might I suggest you actually learn about what you're spewing. Here's a homework problem for you. How long would it take to recharge a Tesla using just solar power?

Today or tomorrow? Remember the first bicycle, the one with the huge front wheel? Evolution is not restricted to biology, it is ever present in technology (remember the Commodore 64?). We see Tesla and Volt (Chevy) cars, and hybrid cars galore on our highways in CA. My wife drives a Prius which is nearly as common in the Bay Area as the VW Bug was in the 1960's.

Why does the New Right seek to protect Coal and Oil / NG and claim it to be superior to any every other source of energy? Job security, fear of change or ignorance?

Why does the New Right seek to protect Coal and Oil / NG and claim it to be superior to any every other source of energy?

Why does the Progressive Left continue to fear nuclear energy when it is clearly the best source of reliable CO2-free energy in useful amounts? Is it fear of change or ignorance?
It's our only hope to save the planet from killer warming, right?

Because I don't like to pay $2 for what I can get from equally reliable and clean sources for $0.50. And the problem of waste is still with us.

 

[flacaltenn]

Two decades ago, we were told that the goal of solar for a dollar a watt was impossible. Now, they are installing 1.2 gigawatts of solar in Austin, Texas, for under 0.05 cents a watt.

Now, I have been working in a steel mill for about 15 years. And it is powered by the Bonneville Dam with a direct line to that source. However, we have a division, heat treating, that is on the common grid. A 2 megawatt/hr battery would protect the electronics in that division from the bumps on the line that create such havoc with our PLCs and drives. Also, in case of a grid failure, dropped transformer, ice storm, whatever, we could roll out what is in the furnaces and take the mill down softly.

Now, there are many square miles of roofs in the city in the form of warehouse and commercial roofs. Perfect place for thin film solar. So the city could produce much of the power that it uses during the day,.

You're confusing generation cost with installation cost on solar. Cannot believe EITHER figure unless you personally go over the books and see how they are cooked. Often the price of LAND is left out, or MAINTENANCE or Subsidies/Rebates not included.

You 2 MW-hr "back-up" is nothing more than a big UPS. That's not unusual. And it doesn't have to carry the ENTIRE PLANT. You're confusing "grid scale storage" claims with SOLELY filling the HUGE gaps in service from renewables.

In TRUTH GSStorage does MANY things, sometimes simultaneously. Like frequency regulation, or switching on the grid or covering the start-up time of a back-up generator. VERY RARELY does GSStorage mean filling in for the sketchy and UNPREDICTABLE performance of renewables for gaps longer than 20 minutes or so.

But they WANT to confuse the issue. Because it lifts the hearts of the faithful. Even Cali which has a GSS initiative is not planning for more than 1.8GW-hrs by 2030.. TOTAL -- on their grid. It's NOT for getting large grids thru the night or for consecutive days of bad wind performance. I don't know where you EVER got that idea.

Texas Utility Oncor Wants to Invest $5.2B in Storage: Can It Get Approval?

Oncor is asking the Texas deregulated market to allow 5 gigawatts of utility-owned, distributed grid batteries.

Texas Utility Oncor Wants to Invest $5.2B in Storage: Can It Get Approval?

Yes, by all means, let us try to head off the idea of making generation by renewables even more efficient. Luddites forever!

Sounds damn expensive for a drop in the bucket to me..

How far ya willing to push that? When the subsidies end -- all that storage cost gets rolled up into the price of wind and solar. Setting YOU BACK about a decade or more in cost performance and creating NEW and major enviro problems.. Great for miners and chemical companies tho..

And the engineers at Oncor totally disagree with you.

Oncor proposes giant leap for grid, batteries

The Dallas-based transmission company is proposing the installation of 5,000 megawatts of batteries not just in its service area but across Texas’ entire grid. That is the equivalent of four nuclear power plants on a grid with a capacity of about 81,000 megawatts.

Ranging from refrigerator- to dumpster-size, the batteries would be installed behind shopping centers and in neighborhoods. Statewide, Oncor estimates a total price tag of $5.2 billion. A study commissioned by Oncor with the Brattle Group, a Massachusetts consulting firm that provides power market analysis for state regulators, says the project would not raise bills. Revenue from rental of storage space on the batteries, along with a decrease in power prices and transmission costs, should actually decrease the average Texas residential power bill 34 cents to $179.66 a month, the report said.

Where the fuck is this magical "revenue from rental of storage space on the batteries" coming from? Who's pocket do you think THAT is? It's a shakedown. Shopping center gets tired of tired of black-outs caused by an over-purchase of flaky wind generation --- officials tell them --- "well it would be a crying shame if sumtin were to happen to your frozen food section". So we could "protect it" by parking a big ass trailer in your lot and watchin it for ya. Just "rent it" from us..

 

[Wyatt earp]

You seriously think we want to drive this clown car


View attachment 87869


Instead of this

You're crazy

Since I was 21, I've always driven a van, Chevy, Dodge, Plymouth and recently a 2006 Odyssey and now a 2016 Odyssey. My fist car was a 1957, two door (210) Chevy Station Wagon which (gasp) my dad sold when I went on active duty. Why I surfed and Scuba Dove and needed the space to carry wet suits, boards and tanks the vans served as safari wagons on the CA Coast. A place to change, sleep and carry water and supplies which my wife and I still use when we go camping to Yosemite, Tahoe, and up the Coast from SF to Vancouver Island, down the coast to San Diego and East to Scottsdale to watch some spring training baseball.

All of which is evidence your post is a straw man, made of wet straw and dressed in an asbestos clothing, thus unable to burn.

A straw man???????


No one wants to drive piece of crap 125 year old technology electric cars.



.

Have you driven a Tesla? Why do you claim to speak for everyone, do you think (LOL) you are all knowing (you're not).

Have you even driven a golf cart, in use for decades?

Were you so engrossed in Fox News you missed the flight of an electric solar powered Air Craft?

Have you noticed solar panels on homes becoming more and more common? Have you never flown a kite, sailed under wind power or tried to run into the wind?

Have you ever seen a windmill?

Do you know the difference between potential and kinetic energy?



Did you read this:

Scientists Store Solar Energy in Desert Sand - The Green Optimistic

What you mad that electric cars is almost 200 year old technology?



Feel the bear513 burn....


Btw you think an electric could out preform a diesel one of these?



View attachment 88015

Absolutely. An electric motor has the most torque at 0 rpm. As soon as the batteries get the energy density to that of liquid fuel. When that occurs, at an affordable price, the diesel engine will go the way of the horse.

I do enjoy old rocks you keeping me personally informed of green energy new developments.


But dude electricity is not a fuel.

Yea we have known for over 150 years the electric motor is far superior to the internal combustion engine.. With torque

But their is a reason for diesel electric trains..


The diesel supply the fuel..the electric supply the torque.

 

[Old Rocks]

acctually the usa is big enough that when the sun sets in california it rises in new foundland.

and somewhere on the continental USA the wind blows.

so anyone who thinks that theres not enough USA to make " Green", id say "American" energy possible is a moron who does not understand how big how great the USA is

the USA would not have a problem to maintain a level of energy use 10 times greater then today with sustainable energy

your just too fucked up to do it

You clearly have no idea what the heck you're talking about. Energy transmission across vast distances requires extremely high voltages to do. Voltages you don't get from wind or solar. Might I suggest you actually learn about what you're spewing. Here's a homework problem for you. How long would it take to recharge a Tesla using just solar power?

Today or tomorrow? Remember the first bicycle, the one with the huge front wheel? Evolution is not restricted to biology, it is ever present in technology (remember the Commodore 64?). We see Tesla and Volt (Chevy) cars, and hybrid cars galore on our highways in CA. My wife drives a Prius which is nearly as common in the Bay Area as the VW Bug was in the 1960's.

Why does the New Right seek to protect Coal and Oil / NG and claim it to be superior to any every other source of energy? Job security, fear of change or ignorance?

Nobody behind THIS keyboard is protecting Coal. I'd like to see most coal replaced by nuclear --- like tomorrow. And instead of finding ginormous additional grid capacity for charging battery cars -- I'd like to see hydrogen fuel cells.. We're not the ones STUCK on stupid when it comes to alternatives.

Fine, engineer. Develop a usable fuel cell car at the price, and usability of the present EV's. Until you do that, don't lecture me on there superiority.

 

[flacaltenn]

acctually the usa is big enough that when the sun sets in california it rises in new foundland.

and somewhere on the continental USA the wind blows.

so anyone who thinks that theres not enough USA to make " Green", id say "American" energy possible is a moron who does not understand how big how great the USA is

the USA would not have a problem to maintain a level of energy use 10 times greater then today with sustainable energy

your just too fucked up to do it

You clearly have no idea what the heck you're talking about. Energy transmission across vast distances requires extremely high voltages to do. Voltages you don't get from wind or solar. Might I suggest you actually learn about what you're spewing. Here's a homework problem for you. How long would it take to recharge a Tesla using just solar power?

Today or tomorrow? Remember the first bicycle, the one with the huge front wheel? Evolution is not restricted to biology, it is ever present in technology (remember the Commodore 64?). We see Tesla and Volt (Chevy) cars, and hybrid cars galore on our highways in CA. My wife drives a Prius which is nearly as common in the Bay Area as the VW Bug was in the 1960's.

Why does the New Right seek to protect Coal and Oil / NG and claim it to be superior to any every other source of energy? Job security, fear of change or ignorance?

Nobody behind THIS keyboard is protecting Coal. I'd like to see most coal replaced by nuclear --- like tomorrow. And instead of finding ginormous additional grid capacity for charging battery cars -- I'd like to see hydrogen fuel cells.. We're not the ones STUCK on stupid when it comes to alternatives.

Fine, engineer. Develop a usable fuel cell car at the price, and usability of the present EV's. Until you do that, don't lecture me on there superiority.

I've been telling ya what's gonna happen. When the wind bubble bursts because people depending on the Grid start dying --- There's gonna be a flight to finding the RIGHT applications for renewables.

And 2 of those are OFF GRID desalinization and OFF GRID hydrogen production...

Who wouldn't want to buy into a piece of an energy company whose major requirements were WATER and wind and sunlight? Every cubic meter of hydrogen produced would eventually have a higher profit margin on it than gasoline. Now THAT'S engineering..

 

[Old Rocks]

Since I was 21, I've always driven a van, Chevy, Dodge, Plymouth and recently a 2006 Odyssey and now a 2016 Odyssey. My fist car was a 1957, two door (210) Chevy Station Wagon which (gasp) my dad sold when I went on active duty. Why I surfed and Scuba Dove and needed the space to carry wet suits, boards and tanks the vans served as safari wagons on the CA Coast. A place to change, sleep and carry water and supplies which my wife and I still use when we go camping to Yosemite, Tahoe, and up the Coast from SF to Vancouver Island, down the coast to San Diego and East to Scottsdale to watch some spring training baseball.

All of which is evidence your post is a straw man, made of wet straw and dressed in an asbestos clothing, thus unable to burn.

A straw man???????


No one wants to drive piece of crap 125 year old technology electric cars.



.

Have you driven a Tesla? Why do you claim to speak for everyone, do you think (LOL) you are all knowing (you're not).

Have you even driven a golf cart, in use for decades?

Were you so engrossed in Fox News you missed the flight of an electric solar powered Air Craft?

Have you noticed solar panels on homes becoming more and more common? Have you never flown a kite, sailed under wind power or tried to run into the wind?

Have you ever seen a windmill?

Do you know the difference between potential and kinetic energy?



Did you read this:

Scientists Store Solar Energy in Desert Sand - The Green Optimistic

What you mad that electric cars is almost 200 year old technology?



Feel the bear513 burn....


Btw you think an electric could out preform a diesel one of these?



View attachment 88015

Absolutely. An electric motor has the most torque at 0 rpm. As soon as the batteries get the energy density to that of liquid fuel. When that occurs, at an affordable price, the diesel engine will go the way of the horse.

I do enjoy old rocks you keeping me personally informed of green energy new developments.


But dude electricity is not a fuel.

Yea we have known for over 150 years the electric motor is far superior to the internal combustion engine.. With torque

But their is a reason for diesel electric trains..


The diesel supply the fuel..the electric supply the torque.

But the equipment in your post was either a very large lift or a piece of earth moving equipment. How many of those are diesel electric?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

acctually the usa is big enough that when the sun sets in california it rises in new foundland.

and somewhere on the continental USA the wind blows.

so anyone who thinks that theres not enough USA to make " Green", id say "American" energy possible is a moron who does not understand how big how great the USA is

the USA would not have a problem to maintain a level of energy use 10 times greater then today with sustainable energy

your just too fucked up to do it

You clearly have no idea what the heck you're talking about. Energy transmission across vast distances requires extremely high voltages to do. Voltages you don't get from wind or solar. Might I suggest you actually learn about what you're spewing. Here's a homework problem for you. How long would it take to recharge a Tesla using just solar power?

Today or tomorrow? Remember the first bicycle, the one with the huge front wheel? Evolution is not restricted to biology, it is ever present in technology (remember the Commodore 64?). We see Tesla and Volt (Chevy) cars, and hybrid cars galore on our highways in CA. My wife drives a Prius which is nearly as common in the Bay Area as the VW Bug was in the 1960's.

Why does the New Right seek to protect Coal and Oil / NG and claim it to be superior to any every other source of energy? Job security, fear of change or ignorance?

Why does the New Right seek to protect Coal and Oil / NG and claim it to be superior to any every other source of energy?

Why does the Progressive Left continue to fear nuclear energy when it is clearly the best source of reliable CO2-free energy in useful amounts? Is it fear of change or ignorance?
It's our only hope to save the planet from killer warming, right?

Because I don't like to pay $2 for what I can get from equally reliable and clean sources for $0.50. And the problem of waste is still with us.

Yeah, that reliable energy that only gets generated, what, a third of the time? LOL!

 

[P@triot]

This is how insanely stupid progressives are - they want to rid the world of the CO2 plants require to thrive, in order to "save" plant life. You just can't make this stuff up...

 

[Old Rocks]

This is how insanely stupid progressives are - they want to rid the world of the CO2 plants require to thrive, in order to "save" plant life. You just can't make this stuff up...

What cannot be made up is how fucking stupid you are. Please post a link to where the scientists want to rid the world of CO2? You dumb bastard, if you researched anything at all about what scientists have to say about CO2, you would find that they state that CO2 is essential in the atmosphere not only for plant life, but as a GHG, to keep the oceans from freezing clear down to the equator. In fact, if you would like to lessen your vast ignorance a little, you might look up snowball earth.

 

[westwall]

This is how insanely stupid progressives are - they want to rid the world of the CO2 plants require to thrive, in order to "save" plant life. You just can't make this stuff up...

What cannot be made up is how fucking stupid you are. Please post a link to where the scientists want to rid the world of CO2? You dumb bastard, if you researched anything at all about what scientists have to say about CO2, you would find that they state that CO2 is essential in the atmosphere not only for plant life, but as a GHG, to keep the oceans from freezing clear down to the equator. In fact, if you would like to lessen your vast ignorance a little, you might look up snowball earth.

Really? Please provide a link to them making such a statement.

 

[hauke]

electricity is a fuel, like gasoline it makes motors go

but unlike gasoline or oil its not a liquid

 

[westwall]

electricity is a fuel, like gasoline it makes motors go

but unlike gasoline or oil its not a liquid

Do you have a point?