The U.S., for the first time, uses the MOAB bomb....So what?

[HereWeGoAgain]

I wasn't too impressed by the bomb. I saw a video of it being tested and it was a big explosion, but nothing crazy.

I also read it was only 1/1000th of the Hiroshima bomb, which makes it the FOAB (fetus of all bombs).

But the radius is pretty similar in size, there is no radiation though.

The scope of the detonation was not strategic or of military importance. Supposedly only 36 militants were killed, according to the U.S. military, plus a teacher and his young son, according to locals. The amount of casualties seems very small, and the same results could have been achieved using much cheaper and less sophisticated weapons.

The scope was to scare other people/nations. If he is crazy enough to detonate such a device, Drumpf wants to show the whole world he is not scared to used such weapons in more populated areas, or even use nuclear weapons, which would be the next step.

Using the MOAB didn't "show" the world he would use such weapons in more populated areas or that he would escalate to nukes. There is nothing indicating that but the whispers in your own mind.
How many critics of the President have focused on the "mountain top" and the 36 fighters killed and completely ignored the actual strategic target, which was the CAVE SYSTEM which has been used as an ISIS/terrorist base of operations. They have tried before getting in there in more conventional ways and failed. I'm glad they got rid of what is the equivalent of a military base for ISIS. No one can hide there anymore.

Are there no drugs involved?

Are YOU using them? I have no idea what you're getting at.

Neither does anyone else. He speaks in vague terms that could point to anything.

 

[Billy000]

I don't really understand all this hype over it.

Not at all surprising that it is something not comprehensible to you.

The tragedy is that petulant former President Barack Hussein Obama had the ability, opportunity but not the stones to have dropped it years ago and saved the lives of many of our military hero's. But then, as a loser, President Obama only played not to lose.

Okay you're stupid. Trump didn't even authorize the drop of the bomb. Comparing this to Obama is unbelievably stupid.

 

[Markle]

"The officials said the planning to use the bomb had been under way for months during the Obama administration and that the bomb had been in Afghanistan for months."

That's from the linked story.

Please provide is with your source and link so that we may see that petulant former President Barack Hussein Obama authorized the plan to use the MOAB. Thank you so much!

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

"The officials said the planning to use the bomb had been under way for months during the Obama administration and that the bomb had been in Afghanistan for months."

That's from the linked story.

Please provide is with your source and link so that we may see that petulant former President Barack Hussein Obama authorized the plan to use the MOAB. Thank you so much!

It's kind of interesting that he never gave the green light on the target even after our military expressed their desire to take out the stronghold.
He instead put it off until Trump was elected.

 

[usmbguest5318]

I would say the wrong strategy was used by politicians.

Do we need a Field Marshall to, "take the blame" for wrong policies by politicians?

No need for the military to take the blame for Vietnam since we all know the military was hamstrung by politicians.

Need or no need, it'd be inappropriate and disingenuous of them were they to do so. There's nothing productive to come of their doing such a thing.

The only thing that you could glean from Vietnam that would be productive is dont let politicians dictate how a war should be fought.

Well, that's not an option at all for the U.S. (unless you have in mind a military coup) because our nation is run by civilians, not the military, and those civilians are politicians. In terms of "day to day" operational decisions, sure, I agree with you. At the strategic and policy level, I don't. Even as Trump appears to be delegating more decision making authority to his generals, the fact remains that whatever they do tactically, he, like every POTUS before him, is still responsible for their actions.

I think generals are quite good at prosecuting militarized conflicts. I think that while they are cognizant of the higher level strategies Administration executives set, the generals are not empowered to set that policy, and I'm not convinced of their acumen as goes assessing the alignment of top level policy with one or several military actions. I don't see how they could be -- particularly with Trump who is a terrible communicator, he's far too imprecise, in terms of making clear what he does and does not, would or would not deem appropriate courses of action for achieving a given goal or set thereof -- as they are not mind readers, and that policy lies within the POTUS' mind and nowhere else.

You can type a long post but that doesnt mitigate the fact that politicians repeatedly step and dictate military strategy.

A lot of times causing needless deaths among our troops.

If you aren't willing to go whole hog stay at home.

Help me out here because this thread is going, if not already there, off topic, and I'd like to get back on the actual thread topic. I'm simply not seeing anyone clearly draw the correlation between Vietnam's events and prosecution and the announcement by the WH that we dropped the MOAB on a mountain in Afghanistan. If there is a legitimate (rather than specious) correlation, by all means, please state what it is, and I'll be fine with the continued line of "Vietnam" chatter. Otherwise, please, let's come back on topic.

Perhaps I missed the post where the connection was soundly and clearly made? If so, please point me to it.

Off Topic:

the fact that politicians repeatedly step and dictate military strategy.

Well, there's a subtle distinction one must make in that vein. Politicians, the POTUS, SecState and SecDef mostly, dictate political strategy/objectives and order military commanders to work within the constraints set by those objectives. The outcome of their doing so may or may not, depending on the situation, be precisely those you've noted below, as they were in Vietnam, but the distinction is critical to make and be mindful of as that distinction is enshrined in U.S. and military law which commanders must follow in prosecuting a war or other military actions.

A lot of times causing needless deaths among our troops. If you aren't willing to go whole hog stay at home.

The first of those statements can often be true. I wholly agree, as a matter of principle, with the second statement.

 

[usmbguest5318]

Need or no need, it'd be inappropriate and disingenuous of them were they to do so. There's nothing productive to come of their doing such a thing.

The only thing that you could glean from Vietnam that would be productive is dont let politicians dictate how a war should be fought.

Plenty of major blunders were made by military leaders during the Vietnam War.

Yeah there were......listening to politicians.

That was not a mistake; the generals and admirals had to listen to the politicians. What would you have had the generals/admirals do? Be insubordinate?

Politicians need to know their limitations.
You shouldnt ask our youth to die for some bs political gain for a politician.
You either go in to win it or not at all.
I do understand that air strikes can be an acceptable deterrent for fringe countries that dont have the ability to strike back with overwhelming military force.....but.
If we go to war with say someone like Lil Kim I say you go in and lay waste to all infrastructure and the ability to strike back militarily.

I agree with all of those themes.

 

[Markle]

Let the MOAB use come out organically via Pentagon spokespeople as part of the follow-on discussion about it. That way, it doesn't look like the WH wants to make a point of using the MOAB and is instead focused on announcing results.

I fully realize that the use of this weapon, available to petulant former President Barack Hussein Obama who did not have the stones to use, is something you wish had remained hidden, but it is well worth publicizing.

Are you so desperate that you actually believe not mentioning, the use of one of the largest non-nuclear weapons in the world would go unnoticed?

The sound was deafening miles away. The mushroom cloud was seen even further. It was wise to put the world on notice so there was never a doubt that it was NOT nuclear.

Hated as it is to you, the news is getting better and better. The death toll for ISIS is now approaching 100. The crushed caves were home to ISIS munitions and supplies.

 

[Markle]

Where is dropping any form of Bombs, in the Art of the Deal?

Simple, you never, ever tell your opponent what you will NOT do. They have to believe that you will and might do anything and are willing to walk away and not turn back. Does that remind you of anything? President Trump and the Republicans put forth a replacement plan for Obamacare. Trump told the world that was their plan but he'd negotiate. Democrats refused, thinking they were in control. He walked away from the table. Today, serious, hard negotiations are going on behind the scenes.

I've made my living negotiating for the past 40+ years although, sadly, not quite on the scale of the Trumps.

 

[Markle]

Yes. Do you see "OP" in red next to my name? That means I'm the thread creator and that makes anything someone posts in this thread be a response to me because I led the discussion by starting the thread.

I'll bet you're short, aren't you?

 

[Markle]

I haven't read that book, but I would guess dropping bombs is an act that corresponds to some act of the negotiating process as Trump depicts it in his book. You'll need to read the book to figure that out. I have no desire to read that book and will not.

Your demand to remain ignorant is duly noted!

 

[Markle]

As I said, it's my thread. I'll respond to whomever I want to. I'm insouciantly indifferent about for what you might ask as goes my thoughts in this thread.

Lighten up son.

 

[Markle]

We have a Commerce Clause not a common offense clause nor general defense clause.

Have you read our constitution?

You must try it sometime!

 

[PoliticalChic]

Yes. Do you see "OP" in red next to my name? That means I'm the thread creator and that makes anything someone posts in this thread be a response to me because I led the discussion by starting the thread.

I'll bet you're short, aren't you?

That was really clever, you devil, you.

 

[Markle]

Okay you're stupid. Trump didn't even authorize the drop of the bomb. Comparing this to Obama is unbelievably stupid.

That's true. Petulant former President Barack Hussein Obama was afraid to authorize anything and worked diligently to blame others, anyone else, for any decisions he made which did not go well.

Unlike President Obama who overrode his military and micro-managed every situation, President Trump has done the only logical thing. President Trump met with his military advisors and laid out for him specific goals. Discussed with them the best way to achieve those goals and then rightfully gave them the authority to get the job done.

This is known delegation. The decision to use that bomb was brilliant. Nothing short of brilliant and the results has proven that Trump and our military did the right thing. To prove that, please not the Free World and even many Democrats are giving a standing ovation!

 

[Godboy]

"The officials said the planning to use the bomb had been under way for months during the Obama administration and that the bomb had been in Afghanistan for months."

That's from the linked story.

Please provide is with your source and link so that we may see that petulant former President Barack Hussein Obama authorized the plan to use the MOAB. Thank you so much!

I provided the link in the original post that YOU quoted. PAY ATTENTION! US drops 'mother of all bombs' on ISIS forces in Afghanistan

 

[danielpalos]

Do we need a Field Marshall to, "take the blame" for wrong policies by politicians?

No need for the military to take the blame for Vietnam since we all know the military was hamstrung by politicians.

Why were we there? Regulars should have said, it cannot be won the way you want to go about it.

We were there supposedly to stop the spread of communism.
The brass were pissed as hell at the ROE's that were foisted on them.

An example of political leadership's failure to have Faith in Capitalism and compete with other forms of government? Should we get Boss or Ding involved.

I dont know how you could even claim that when the politicians were the one's who hamstrung the military.
If they truly wanted to stop the spread of communism they would have let the Generals decide on the best course of action.

On the plus side S. Korea still stands.

An example of political leadership's failure to have Faith in Capitalism

 

[danielpalos]

I wasn't too impressed by the bomb. I saw a video of it being tested and it was a big explosion, but nothing crazy.

I also read it was only 1/1000th of the Hiroshima bomb, which makes it the FOAB (fetus of all bombs).

But the radius is pretty similar in size, there is no radiation though.

The scope of the detonation was not strategic or of military importance. Supposedly only 36 militants were killed, according to the U.S. military, plus a teacher and his young son, according to locals. The amount of casualties seems very small, and the same results could have been achieved using much cheaper and less sophisticated weapons.

The scope was to scare other people/nations. If he is crazy enough to detonate such a device, Drumpf wants to show the whole world he is not scared to used such weapons in more populated areas, or even use nuclear weapons, which would be the next step.

Using the MOAB didn't "show" the world he would use such weapons in more populated areas or that he would escalate to nukes. There is nothing indicating that but the whispers in your own mind.
How many critics of the President have focused on the "mountain top" and the 36 fighters killed and completely ignored the actual strategic target, which was the CAVE SYSTEM which has been used as an ISIS/terrorist base of operations. They have tried before getting in there in more conventional ways and failed. I'm glad they got rid of what is the equivalent of a military base for ISIS. No one can hide there anymore.

Are there no drugs involved?

Are YOU using them? I have no idea what you're getting at.

no drug tunnels?

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

No need for the military to take the blame for Vietnam since we all know the military was hamstrung by politicians.

Why were we there? Regulars should have said, it cannot be won the way you want to go about it.

We were there supposedly to stop the spread of communism.
The brass were pissed as hell at the ROE's that were foisted on them.

An example of political leadership's failure to have Faith in Capitalism and compete with other forms of government? Should we get Boss or Ding involved.

I dont know how you could even claim that when the politicians were the one's who hamstrung the military.
If they truly wanted to stop the spread of communism they would have let the Generals decide on the best course of action.

On the plus side S. Korea still stands.

An example of political leadership's failure to have Faith in Capitalism

Liberal leadership.

 

[danielpalos]

Why were we there? Regulars should have said, it cannot be won the way you want to go about it.

We were there supposedly to stop the spread of communism.
The brass were pissed as hell at the ROE's that were foisted on them.

An example of political leadership's failure to have Faith in Capitalism and compete with other forms of government? Should we get Boss or Ding involved.

I dont know how you could even claim that when the politicians were the one's who hamstrung the military.
If they truly wanted to stop the spread of communism they would have let the Generals decide on the best course of action.

On the plus side S. Korea still stands.

An example of political leadership's failure to have Faith in Capitalism

Liberal leadership.

The right wing preferred a domino fallacy while alleging it was really a theory.

 

[xyz]

I haven't read that book, but I would guess dropping bombs is an act that corresponds to some act of the negotiating process as Trump depicts it in his book. You'll need to read the book to figure that out. I have no desire to read that book and will not.

He didn't write that book, which was written to make him look like a better person than he is in real life, so I suspect it does not say that. I haven't read it either and don't care to.

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box...art-of-the-deal-co-author-trump-is-terrifying

'Art of the Deal' Co-Author Says Trump Presidency Would Be 'Terrifying'

Art of the Deal co-writer says Trump could 'end civilisation' if elected