The Two-State Solution?

[Victory67]

Don't you find it ironic that the only place Jews are not allowed to live in, simply for being Jews, is Judea?

Just like how the Jewish National Fund built homes and bought land just for Jews.

Once Israel was established, Israel started treating Arabs with some rights. But not before.

 

[Roudy]

Don't you find it ironic that the only place Jews are not allowed to live in, simply for being Jews, is Judea?

Just like how the Jewish National Fund built homes and bought land just for Jews.

Once Israel was established, Israel started treating Arabs with some rights. But not before.

Oh so Jews escaping from Arab and nazi persecution should have first established an Arab country and not a Jewish one, in a region where there are more Arab countries than fingers on your hands. Got it.

 

[Victory67]

Don't you find it ironic that the only place Jews are not allowed to live in, simply for being Jews, is Judea?

Just like how the Jewish National Fund built homes and bought land just for Jews.

Once Israel was established, Israel started treating Arabs with some rights. But not before.

Oh so Jews escaping from Arab and nazi persecution should have first established an Arab country and not a Jewish one, in a region where there are more Arab countries than fingers on your hands. Got it.

Until a state of Palestine is established, the Arabs have the right to work to create an Arab Palestine. Just as the Jews had the right to create a Jewish Palestine.

 

[Phoenall]

Don't you find it ironic that the only place Jews are not allowed to live in, simply for being Jews, is Judea?

Just like how the Jewish National Fund built homes and bought land just for Jews.

Once Israel was established, Israel started treating Arabs with some rights. But not before.

The name gives it away the JEWISH national fund, not the muslim or Christian national fund. Considering how many arabs there are why couldn't they all chip in like the Jews did.

 

[Roudy]

Just like how the Jewish National Fund built homes and bought land just for Jews.

Once Israel was established, Israel started treating Arabs with some rights. But not before.

Oh so Jews escaping from Arab and nazi persecution should have first established an Arab country and not a Jewish one, in a region where there are more Arab countries than fingers on your hands. Got it.

Until a state of Palestine is established, the Arabs have the right to work to create an Arab Palestine. Just as the Jews had the right to create a Jewish Palestine.

Jews created a state in an area designated by the British, those who controlled the land, and Arabs because they are intolerant savages, after getting their own Arab Palestine in Jordan, attacked the Jewish Palestine aka Israel. Plain and simple.

Lots of butthurt for the Arabs came after that, after they kept trying to destroy the Jewish state.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I agree that the political decision to proceed and promote Settlements in the West Bank was a flawed decision on the part of the Israeli government. It has done more harm than good to the Israeli position and standing.

Good points, Rocco, thanks.

BDS has three points:

1) End the occupation of all Arab land conquered in 1967. This includes the West Bank, Gaza, East Jerusalem, and the Golan Heights.

2) Equal rights for Palestinian citizens of Israel.

3) The right of return.

This transcends the so called peace process and renders it irrelevant. BDS will continue until these rights are realized.

Note that BDS does not call for a Palestinian state.

(COMMENT)

The situation with the issue of Jerusalem is a draw. Both the Israeli and Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) have declared Jerusalem as their respective capitol. So that is a wash. Both sides are wrong; the Palestinian side being more wrong than the Israeli side, in that free access to Holy Sites is not allowed.

The issue of the Golan Heights is a distinctly separate matter, entirely divorced from the Israeli-Palestinian dispute. It is a matter of concern between the Israeli and Syrian governments. From a BDS perspective, it is a sympathetic entanglement in which the Palestinian has no legal standing.

You point of "Equal rights for Palestinian citizens of Israel" is a domestic issue; and again - outside the legal standing in the dispute between the Israeli and Palestinian. The ethnic Arab-Palestinians of Israel are Israeli citizens. And nothing in international law allow the interference in domestic matters that are otherwise legal. And the claim of "Apartheid" inside Israel is unsubstantiated.

(KEY POINTS of BDS)

1. Ending its occupation and colonization of all Arab lands and dismantling the Wall.

• The Israeli mistake made in the construction of the Security Barrier (AKA: "The Wall") is that portions of it were constructed on the Palestinian side of the Armistice Line (AKA: "The Green Line"); thus creating what the International Court of Justice (ICJ) phrased, in its 2004 Opinion (General List No. 131 9 July 2004) as a condition "tantamount to de facto annexation  referring to the slivers of land shaved-off by "The Wall." Had "The Wall" been constructed entirely on the Israeli side of "The Green Line," the ICJ would have found it to be entirely legal (in all probability). The ICJ did not find that "The Wall" itself  as a concept  was illegal or in violation, but that it transgressed "The Green Line." And it implied that the Palestinians of the West Bank have the right to complete and total, unrestricted access, right up to the threshold of "The Green Line." Clearly, this was very sloppy on the part of the Israelis and puts the Palestinians in the position of being, from a practical legal standpoint, in the righteous position.

2. Recognizing the fundamental rights of the Arab-Palestinian citizens of Israel to full equality;

• This is a very nebulous accusation. Its phrasing is curious. There are no Arab-Palestinian citizens of Israel  rather, there are Israeli citizens of Arab-Palestinian descent. All citizens of Israel are subject to the exact same laws, no matter their ethnic background. This is a matter of domestic concern and not subject to the external interference by the citizenry of other nations. All Arab countries in the region have laws that differ from one nation to the next. It doesn't mean that external influences have the right or obligation to supplant those laws.

3. Respecting, protecting and promoting the rights of Palestinian refugees to return to their homes and properties as stipulated in UN Resolution 194.​

The non-binding Resolution 194 [A/RES/194 (III) 11 December 1948], on the matter of the Right-of-Return (RoR), stipulates in Paragraph 11, that:

• "the refugees wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbours,
• should be permitted to do so at the earliest practicable date,
• that compensation should be paid for the property of those choosing not to return and for loss of or damage to property which, under principles of international law or in equity, should be made good by the Governments or authorities responsible;

84. In particular, the Government of Israel is not prepared to implement the part of paragraph 11 of the General Assembly resolution of 11 December 1948 which resolves that the refugees wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbours should be permitted to do so at the earliest practicable date.

85. The Arab Governments, on the other hand, are not prepared fully to implement paragraph 5 of the said resolution, which calls for the final settlement of all questions outstanding between them and Israel. The Arab Governments in their contacts with the Commission have evinced no readiness to arrive at such a peace settlement with the Government of Israel.

SOURCE: A/1985 20 November 1951

Since that time, only the Egyptians (1979) and the Jordanians (1994) have come to a Peace Settlement. The remainder of the Arab League that participated in the invasion of Israel have not come to a "final settlement." With the exception of these two agreements, the situation has been in a stalemate since 1951, with no real agreement within the parties concerned, as to who the "Governments or authorities responsible" that should make good the compensation and reparations.​

At the moment, the bottleneck is in the current Peace Negotiations. And while there is every reason to "hope" that a "final Settlement" will be concluded, there is no reasonable expectation that either party will compromise to that end. Certainly time is on the side of the Israelis. They have the ability to maintain the status quo almost indefinitely. As I stated in Posting #2737 (I will not Bow!):

It makes very little difference how long the Palestinian and pro-Palestinian people choose to aggravate and extend the conflict. They only hurt themselves. In another half century, there will not be any Palestinians remaining that had Mandate era citizenship or residency outside the security barrier. There will be no Jihadist or Fedayeen leadership remaining that had any first hand experiences before the 1948 Israeli War of Independence. They will have no idea what in the world they are fighting about. All they will know is that because of their history of past criminal behaviors, and the perspective in my previous posting (#2726 supra) they wasted an enormous amount of time and effort pursuing Jihadist and Fedayeen objectives, instead of building a free and self-sufficient, self-governing state that is both sound and prosperous; something to be proud of --- a legacy for their descendants.

It remains to be seen as to the character and nature the Palestinian and pro-Palestinian want to pass-on to their descendants; a prosperous nation to be proud of,  or  an unproductive nation of dead beats, rift-raft, scoundrels, crooks and criminals dominated by the less than successful Jihadist and Fedayeen; having nothing to do but complain about what could have been instead of making a nation happen (but then, this is the famous Arab way).

The Arab Palestinian can never say that they were not given a chance to build a nation; only that they were offered the opportunity to exercise their right to self-determination and threw it away because they wanted more (the ME ME ME attitude). Whether you are Izz ad-Din al-Qassam (Muslim preacher, Terrorist, Scoundrel), Haj Amin al Husseini (Mufti of Jerusalem, Terrorist, anti-Semitic activist, Chairman of the Arab Higher Committee), Isa Nakhleh (Representative of the Arab Higher Committee, promoter of the Genocide), Ahmed Hilmi Pasha (Prime Minister of the All-Palestine Government), Yahya Hammuda (first President of the General Refugee Congress), Yasser Arafat (Leader of the Fatah Political Party, Chairman of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), President of the Palestinian National Authority) or  Mahmoud Abbas  what have they passed-down to the Palestinian? Nothing but an unbuilt, half-assed nation, full of corruption and end-fighting. What is the legacy to the Palestinian People? Did all these Palestinian Heroes make the end result successively better (  or worse)?

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

Rocco,

That is why BDS is bypassing all of that political crap and simply pushing for Palestinian rights.

There is not going to be any peace agreement based on justice and international law. You will never hear those terms cross the lips of anyone in the fake peace process.

 

[toastman]

Good points, Rocco, thanks.

BDS has three points:

1) End the occupation of all Arab land conquered in 1967. This includes the West Bank, Gaza, East Jerusalem, and the Golan Heights.

2) Equal rights for Palestinian citizens of Israel.

3) The right of return.

This transcends the so called peace process and renders it irrelevant. BDS will continue until these rights are realized.

Note that BDS does not call for a Palestinian state.

First of all, 1 and 3 are NEVER going to happen. You should know that by now.
Second, what does it matter if BDS does t call for a Palestinian state??
i dont see the relevance of that point to anything

Third of all, I love how when Rocco posts something that fits your agenda, you thank him, but when he posts the truth about the IP conflict that DOESNT fit your agenda, you always disagree with him and tell him hes blowing smoke or grasping at straws

 

[toastman]

Rocco,

That is why BDS is bypassing all of that political crap and simply pushing for Palestinian rights.

There is not going to be any peace agreement based on justice and international law. You will never hear those terms cross the lips of anyone in the fake peace process.

Ok , but do you truly believe that BDS is going to end up convincing the Israelis to move back to the 67 borders and make them agree to flood Israel with hundreds of thousands of Palestinians, which would be demographic suicide?

 

[RoccoR]

Paul,

The BDS Movement is not going to prevent the Arab-Palestinian from committing political suicide.

Rocco,

That is why BDS is bypassing all of that political crap and simply pushing for Palestinian rights.

There is not going to be any peace agreement based on justice and international law. You will never hear those terms cross the lips of anyone in the fake peace process.

(COMMENT)

It is almost a role-reversal. Pretty soon, the Free-world leaders will be trying to figure-out how to save the Palestinian culture and preserve it; rather than the original intent of trying how to preserve the Jewish culture and protect it.

One of the implied criteria was the nurturing of the regional population to achieve a stage of development where their existence as independent nation is such that they are able to stand on their own (stand alone, self-governing --- Article 22 LoN Cov). As in the previous Posting #66, the Arab Palestinian has never really been able to do that in a way that is both conducive to regional peace and in some way beneficial to both nations.

Remember, it is not about what you and I think is fair and equitable, but what turns out to be in the best interest of both nation of people. If the cycle of violence is ever going to stop, and the People of Palestine are ever to achieve the commercial, economic and social-political benefits of the 21st Century, then one side or the other (probably a bit of both) is going to have to compromise. But if neither side compromises, in the end, it will be the Arab Palestinian that suffers the most and may as a nation, collapse into total chaos.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Roudy]

I think this quote by Rocco, says it all:

...the Palestinian side being more wrong than the Israeli side, in that free access to Holy Sites is not allowed.

As usual. Arabs trying to get away with being intolerant savages, while accusing others of the same.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Paul,

The BDS Movement is not going to prevent the Arab-Palestinian from committing political suicide.

Rocco,

That is why BDS is bypassing all of that political crap and simply pushing for Palestinian rights.

There is not going to be any peace agreement based on justice and international law. You will never hear those terms cross the lips of anyone in the fake peace process.

(COMMENT)

It is almost a role-reversal. Pretty soon, the Free-world leaders will be trying to figure-out how to save the Palestinian culture and preserve it; rather than the original intent of trying how to preserve the Jewish culture and protect it.

One of the implied criteria was the nurturing of the regional population to achieve a stage of development where their existence as independent nation is such that they are able to stand on their own (stand alone, self-governing --- Article 22 LoN Cov). As in the previous Posting #66, the Arab Palestinian has never really been able to do that in a way that is both conducive to regional peace and in some way beneficial to both nations.

Remember, it is not about what you and I think is fair and equitable, but what turns out to be in the best interest of both nation of people. If the cycle of violence is ever going to stop, and the People of Palestine are ever to achieve the commercial, economic and social-political benefits of the 21st Century, then one side or the other (probably a bit of both) is going to have to compromise. But if neither side compromises, in the end, it will be the Arab Palestinian that suffers the most and may as a nation, collapse into total chaos.

Most Respectfully,
R

Of course that will never happen as long as Israel steals, bombs, and bulldozes all of Palestine's economic infrastructure.

 

[Victory67]

Jews created a state in an area designated by the British, those who controlled the land, and Arabs because they are intolerant savages, after getting their own Arab Palestine in Jordan, attacked the Jewish Palestine aka Israel. Plain and simple.

Lots of butthurt for the Arabs came after that, after they kept trying to destroy the Jewish state.

Even if the land west of the Jordan was designated as "Jewish Palestine", it was still demanded that they will have a large non-Jewish population and the rights of these non-Jews had to be protected and respected.

Israel has violated all of this.

 

[Roudy]

Paul,

The BDS Movement is not going to prevent the Arab-Palestinian from committing political suicide.

Rocco,

That is why BDS is bypassing all of that political crap and simply pushing for Palestinian rights.

There is not going to be any peace agreement based on justice and international law. You will never hear those terms cross the lips of anyone in the fake peace process.

(COMMENT)

It is almost a role-reversal. Pretty soon, the Free-world leaders will be trying to figure-out how to save the Palestinian culture and preserve it; rather than the original intent of trying how to preserve the Jewish culture and protect it.

One of the implied criteria was the nurturing of the regional population to achieve a stage of development where their existence as independent nation is such that they are able to stand on their own (stand alone, self-governing --- Article 22 LoN Cov). As in the previous Posting #66, the Arab Palestinian has never really been able to do that in a way that is both conducive to regional peace and in some way beneficial to both nations.

Remember, it is not about what you and I think is fair and equitable, but what turns out to be in the best interest of both nation of people. If the cycle of violence is ever going to stop, and the People of Palestine are ever to achieve the commercial, economic and social-political benefits of the 21st Century, then one side or the other (probably a bit of both) is going to have to compromise. But if neither side compromises, in the end, it will be the Arab Palestinian that suffers the most and may as a nation, collapse into total chaos.

Most Respectfully,
R

That's IF there is a "Palestinian culture" to save.

 

[Roudy]

Jews created a state in an area designated by the British, those who controlled the land, and Arabs because they are intolerant savages, after getting their own Arab Palestine in Jordan, attacked the Jewish Palestine aka Israel. Plain and simple.

Lots of butthurt for the Arabs came after that, after they kept trying to destroy the Jewish state.

Even if the land west of the Jordan was designated as "Jewish Palestine", it was still demanded that they will have a large non-Jewish population and the rights of these non-Jews had to be protected and respected.

Israel has violated all of this.

Really? Would that be before or after the Arabs attacked Israel and tried to utterly destroy it.

How exactly is Israel supposed to "protect the rights" of people that are ATTACKING IT?

Nincompoop.

 

[Victory67]

Really? Would that be before or after the Arabs attacked Israel and tried to utterly destroy it.

How exactly is Israel supposed to "protect the rights" of people that are ATTACKING IT?

Nincompoop.

Most of the Arabs in Israel had nothing to do with the Arab nation attacks.

And yet they have been punished for these attacks, to this day.

By your logic, the Muslim world was right to kick out 800,000 Jews as the Jews in Israel were persecuting and attacking fellow Muslims.

 

[toastman]

Paul,

The BDS Movement is not going to prevent the Arab-Palestinian from committing political suicide.

Rocco,

That is why BDS is bypassing all of that political crap and simply pushing for Palestinian rights.

There is not going to be any peace agreement based on justice and international law. You will never hear those terms cross the lips of anyone in the fake peace process.

(COMMENT)

It is almost a role-reversal. Pretty soon, the Free-world leaders will be trying to figure-out how to save the Palestinian culture and preserve it; rather than the original intent of trying how to preserve the Jewish culture and protect it.

One of the implied criteria was the nurturing of the regional population to achieve a stage of development where their existence as independent nation is such that they are able to stand on their own (stand alone, self-governing --- Article 22 LoN Cov). As in the previous Posting #66, the Arab Palestinian has never really been able to do that in a way that is both conducive to regional peace and in some way beneficial to both nations.

Remember, it is not about what you and I think is fair and equitable, but what turns out to be in the best interest of both nation of people. If the cycle of violence is ever going to stop, and the People of Palestine are ever to achieve the commercial, economic and social-political benefits of the 21st Century, then one side or the other (probably a bit of both) is going to have to compromise. But if neither side compromises, in the end, it will be the Arab Palestinian that suffers the most and may as a nation, collapse into total chaos.

Most Respectfully,
R

Of course that will never happen as long as Israel steals, bombs, and bulldozes all of Palestine's economic infrastructure.

You reap what you sow

 

[aris2chat]

Don't you find it ironic that the only place Jews are not allowed to live in, simply for being Jews, is Judea?

Just like how the Jewish National Fund built homes and bought land just for Jews.

Once Israel was established, Israel started treating Arabs with some rights. But not before.

The name gives it away the JEWISH national fund, not the muslim or Christian national fund. Considering how many arabs there are why couldn't they all chip in like the Jews did.

How does V not understand that arabs lived or benefited from the building of farms, homes and industry on land bought by the jewish fund?

 

[toastman]

Really? Would that be before or after the Arabs attacked Israel and tried to utterly destroy it.

How exactly is Israel supposed to "protect the rights" of people that are ATTACKING IT?

Nincompoop.

Most of the Arabs in Israel had nothing to do with the Arab nation attacks.

And yet they have been punished for these attacks, to this day.

By your logic, the Muslim world was right to kick out 800,000 Jews as the Jews in Israel were persecuting and attacking fellow Muslims.

Palestinian Arabs, as they were referred to back then, were part of the war. What does it matter how many.
And once again you come up with a childish and idiotic comparison

 

[Victory67]

How does V not understand that arabs lived or benefited from the building of farms, homes and industry on land bought by the jewish fund?

How did Israeli Arabs benefit from millions of dumans of land being stolen from them, given to the JNF for Jews only?