The two ends of the political spectrum are killing us

[BlackSand]

View attachment 764508


Oh, come on. You know every woman loves a man in a uniform!

.

Oh shit ... Don't throw a soft pitch like that one.

I was about to say ... "Nice Recovery" ... But you know I am crazy and hard to handle.
Right after I thought that ... The next thing that popped into my head was ... "Just Leave the Kids Alone" ...

Sorry man ... But this mess is going downhill ... When I get goofy.
Maybe we ought to try to find the Topic ... It's safer.

.​

 

[Dogmaphobe]

.

Oh shit ... Don't throw a soft pitch like that one.

I was about to say ... "Nice Recovery" ... But you know I am crazy and hard to handle.
Right after I thought that ... The next thing that popped into my head was ... "Just Leave the Kids Alone" ...

Sorry man ... But this mess is going downhill ... When I get goofy.
Maybe we ought to try to find the Topic ... It's safer.

.​

Just trying to get things back on topic here, my friend. This particular clip acts as some sort of inspired rendition of Raging Bull, Citizen Cain and On The Waterfront all rolled into one and represents the perfect synthesis of all the points Mac has been attempting to illustrate to us all.

 

[francoHFW]

Russian Collusion. Defense rests.

Well LOL, Trump did tell the Russians to go ahead and hack Hillary And then they started. How much collusion do you need- He said it wouldn't bother him any. And they cost her the election with GOP hero james comey. There's also no doubt that Russians did a huge effort on social media etc to help trump.

 

[task0778]

Idle thought: maybe it ain't the two ends of the political spectrum that is killing us but it's the moderates in the middle that are letting the crazies control the narrative. What's that saying about bad things happen when good people do nothing? I think we've got too many people in and out of politics that are allowing bad things to happen and doing nothing about what's going on.

 

[Mac1958]

Pushing for greater equity and inclusion for our citizenry is no vice.

As I say all the time: It's not the goal that is the problem. It's the way we go about achieving it. This is a large, complex country, and forcing things and slapping on band aids can go sideways pretty quickly. As we've seen.

The way this has been done has brought us Trumpism, which is clearly not just a blip in time, especially with the makeup of the Supreme Court.

And now, this orange stain is just upping the ante. Back and forth, back and forth. I just don't understand why it has to be this way.

 

[Mac1958]

Idle thought: maybe it ain't the two ends of the political spectrum that is killing us but it's the moderates in the middle that are letting the crazies control the narrative. What's that saying about bad things happen when good people do nothing? I think we've got too many people in and out of politics that are allowing bad things to happen and doing nothing about what's going on.

It goes to the very temperament of the people involved, and the system in which they're operating.

1. The people in between the two extremes simply don't need to force people to see and do things their way. Live and let live.
2. Our political "system" incentivizes and rewards those who are the opposite, who think they have all the answers for everyone.

As long as our "system" remains as it is, the two extremes are going to have the most influence, by far.

Right now, the rest of us are the children in the cafeteria, just trying to eat our damn lunch during a food fight, wondering how much of a mess the other children are making that will have to be cleaned up later.

 

[Foxfyre]

Is she single? Are you? lol! I think I'm in love. Or drunk again?

I don't know about Black Sand. I've been married to the same guy for many decades now and so far he hasn't given me permission to date. But I'm allowed to flirt a bit.

 

[Mac1958]

This a Joke? A MAGA cultists who stands with white supremacist calling a Democrat a racist.

And I'm not even close to being a Democrat. But these poor souls see only either/or. Anything more complex than that confuses and angers them.

 

[Mac1958]

Run away then, thanks for admitting you can't answer the questions brought in your own thread. Maybe you should quit wasting everyone's time?

Your opinion of me means nothing. Sorry.

 

[Doug1943]

nope, all that is right wing garbage propaganda. Fox pundits' email show that they don't believe this crap. The whole thing is a joke and no one else in the world agrees with you people. End of story

You clearly lack the self-awareness to see the screaming irony of your reply.
You believe people on the Right are naive, uncritical consumers of mis-information fed to them by their authority figures.
You also believe that we should believe uncritically

--- the stories in the mainstream media, which always, according to you, tells the unbiassed, whole truth; if they say Trump is on the Russian payroll, it must be true!

--- what the FBI says, about, say the fact that Hunter's laptop is Russian disinformation;

--- the pronouncements of any government agency, like the CDC, if it says something, like that the virus comes from bats and the vaccine is perfectly safe and should be taken by everyone, not just people at risk due to prior conditions;

Gee, guy! And you call us gullible!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Doug1943]

You're a statist douchebag, to be sure, but that's actually a good point. I've always seen voter apathy as a good sign. In fact, the high voter turnout in the last couple of elections is a strong indicator of just how bad things are.

That's an interesting theory. I recall reading ... a long time ago ... an analysis of the rise the Nazis which said that their strength (which went from 2.5% of the popular vote in 1928 to 37.5% in the spring of 1932), came from 'new voters' -- not just young people reaching the age of majority, but from previously-apathetic non-voters.

(Everyone who cares about liberal democracy and is worried about its future in the US needs to start becoming with certain historical periods that may provide lessons for us -- mainly negative ones, what not to do: the end of the Roman Republic, and the collapse of the Weimar Republic are two such periods.

(Patriots should also study the collapse of the Russian Empire, but for different reasons: start with Trotsky's History of the Russian Revolution, available for free download from Marxists.org. Pay attention to 'the July Days' ... remarkably similar to 6 Jan.)

For Rome, Mary Beard's SPQR is a good place to start: in the century or so before the Republic was replaced by the Empire, there was extreme economic inequality, politicians claiming to want to address this problem (Cataline, the Gracchi brothers, even Julius Caesar), money in politics ... and violence in politics, including the killing of all the aforementioned.) She's on the left but is a very good historian.

I don't know of an equivalent book on Weimar. (There are many, but the ones I've seen aren't really comprehensive.) Suggestions welcomed. What is true is that the far Left -- the people after whom AntiFa names itself, the street-fighting units of the Communist Party -- played a big role in helping Hitler get to power. They spent a lot of their energy attacking the Socialists -- whom they called "social-fascists" (our equivalent of 'RINO'). There is a lesson for patriots here.

The real issue is: should everyone be allowed to determine who will run the government? Right now, partisan considerations will govern how you answer this. If you think that marginal people will vote for your party, you'll favor it, otherwise, not.

So ... imagine we're starting a new society ... say, on Mars, a couple of centuries from now. It will be populated with one million people chosen at random. American Left/Right issues have been long forgotten. How would we want to decide who could vote?

My own prejudice: all those and only those who have successfully completed their military service, with that service open to absolutely everyone. (I stole this idea from Robert Heinlein's excellent Starship Troopers.)

 

[gipper]

that is known as bs. Only Murdoch produces GOP crap conspiracy BS. In the entire world and all kinds of journalism...

The msm has lied to the American people for decades. It is controlled by government and has become essentially a department of the USG.

You might look up the Church Commission from fucking 1975. Then you might realize it’s much worse today…see the Twitter Files. You won’t of course because you’re a cultist unwilling to learn the truth.

Lol. You are exactly like a Trumper. A true believer unable to think

 

[gipper]

Libertarian Child thinks government is this alien force, and not just a bunch of politicians giving us exactly what we want.

Lol. Is that all government does? Lol.

 

[gipper]

That's an interesting theory. I recall reading ... a long time ago ... an analysis of the rise the Nazis which said that their strength (which went from 2.5% of the popular vote in 1928 to 37.5% in the spring of 1932), came from 'new voters' -- not just young people reaching the age of majority, but from previously-apathetic non-voters.

(Everyone who cares about liberal democracy and is worried about its future in the US needs to start becoming with certain historical periods that may provide lessons for us -- mainly negative ones, what not to do: the end of the Roman Republic, and the collapse of the Weimar Republic are two such periods.

(Patriots should also study the collapse of the Russian Empire, but for different reasons: start with Trotsky's History of the Russian Revolution, available for free download from Marxists.org. Pay attention to 'the July Days' ... remarkably similar to 6 Jan.)

For Rome, Mary Beard's SPQR is a good place to start: in the century or so before the Republic was replaced by the Empire, there was extreme economic inequality, politicians claiming to want to address this problem (Cataline, the Gracchi brothers, even Julius Caesar), money in politics ... and violence in politics, including the killing of all the aforementioned.) She's on the left but is a very good historian.

I don't know of an equivalent book on Weimar. (There are many, but the ones I've seen aren't really comprehensive.) Suggestions welcomed. What is true is that the far Left -- the people after whom AntiFa names itself, the street-fighting units of the Communist Party -- played a big role in helping Hitler get to power. They spent a lot of their energy attacking the Socialists -- whom they called "social-fascists" (our equivalent of 'RINO'). There is a lesson for patriots here.

The real issue is: should everyone be allowed to determine who will run the government? Right now, partisan considerations will govern how you answer this. If you think that marginal people will vote for your party, you'll favor it, otherwise, not.

So ... imagine we're starting a new society ... say, on Mars, a couple of centuries from now. It will be populated with one million people chosen at random. American Left/Right issues have been long forgotten. How would we want to decide who could vote?

My own prejudice: all those and only those who have successfully completed their military service, with that service open to absolutely everyone. (I stole this idea from Robert Heinlein's excellent Starship Troopers.)

It would be so great if they held an election and no one voted. No more of this bs about “consent of the governed.”

 

[JoeB131]

Pretty good post for a radical.
I Take huge exception to the quoted part. They are an illegitimately installed regime (Voter fraud 2020) now sending us off a Fiscal cliff (we all know it). A Tyrannical regime.
Very short-sighted of you, long-term is very bleak.

Nope, they won by 8 million votes. As far as a "Fiscal Cliff", there's an easy way to fix that. Make the rich pay their fair share.

It has no literally become "ONE FLEW OVER THE CUCKOO NEST IN DC" yet you and your kind say "good job"? huh? The enemies of America have won the war without firing a shot.

As far as I'm concerned, it's a great job. Unemployment is at record lows, Covid has been contained, we aren't having riots in the streets or mass business failures like we had under Trump.

If someone was "illegitimate", it was Trump, who was rejected by the majority but got the job anyway because we are using a system devised by Slave Owners modelled on the Holy Roman Empire.

Congratulations, they used you and your KLAN to do it. How can you look at American kids playing in the park knowing what you have set for their future?

I'd say the problems they face are mostly caused by Republicans.

You whine about the "Fiscal Cliff" (Only because Republicans who wrote blank checks to Republican big spenders suddenly realize the debt ceiling is a thing when Democrats are in charge), but the reality is that the only reason why deficits are a problem is that Republicans keep cutting taxes for rich people.

The best way to shrink government would be to raise taxes to not only eliminate the deficit, but to pay down the debt. Make people pay for the government they are getting.

We won't do that, though. We will take all these services and won't pay for them, making the services more attractive.

 

[scruffy]

I just don't understand why it has to be this way.

That's the most honest thing you've said.

And it's because you're not looking at this in a useful way.

You're right insofar as the way things have been done so far brought us Trumpism.

But you're wrong about what Trumpism actually IS. That's why you don't understand.

50% of America is fed up. It's a populism thing, not a Trump thing. They cheer the J6 protesters while insisting Trump had nothing to do with it. And if you ask them if they want Trump to be president for life, they say not only no, but hell no.

It is vital that you read the landscape accurately if you wish to leverage it.

This bullshit about cults and so on, simply won't fly. It's stupid. Dumb. A little on the stupid and dumb side of retarded.

 

[JoeB131]

The problem is that government has become so big, so unmanageable, so instrusive, so powerful that it imagines itself to be a sort of God to deal out a small portion of what it keeps for itself and 'gives the people what they think they want' to keep themselves on their very lucrative seats of power.

Nope, that's just your crazy imagination.

The thing is, I keep asking Conservative to find one trillion in cuts... But after you take out Social Security, Medicare, and Defense, there just isn't that much to cut, really.

And because the forces within it now control not only a massive and unmanageable government but large corporations, education, media, entertainment, scientific institutions, and a lot of religious organizations. It thereby has convinced the people to look to government instead of their own abilities and resources for 'what they want.'

Uh, huh... it's all a fucking conspiracy against you and Jesus. Got it. Not that you are a fucking fringe that really doesn't reflect anything.

Here's our big problem. We want government to do stuff for us, and we don't want to pay for it. Period. Full stop.

 

[dblack]

Here's our big problem. We want government to do stuff for us, and we don't want to pay for it. Period. Full stop.

And the core of that debate is how much we want government doing. Given that government is not a choice, given that it's applied by force on the unwilling, sane people see good reason to limit it.

 

[JoeB131]

That's an interesting theory. I recall reading ... a long time ago ... an analysis of the rise the Nazis which said that their strength (which went from 2.5% of the popular vote in 1928 to 37.5% in the spring of 1932), came from 'new voters' -- not just young people reaching the age of majority, but from previously-apathetic non-voters.

I don't know of an equivalent book on Weimar. (There are many, but the ones I've seen aren't really comprehensive.) Suggestions welcomed. What is true is that the far Left -- the people after whom AntiFa names itself, the street-fighting units of the Communist Party -- played a big role in helping Hitler get to power. They spent a lot of their energy attacking the Socialists -- whom they called "social-fascists" (our equivalent of 'RINO'). There is a lesson for patriots here.

What, you aren't claiming you were around during the Weimar Years and you were personally in the White Rose society, and Hitler totally chopped off your head but you got better.

Okay, seriously. No, the Nazis didn't attract "New voters", they attracted voters from other right wing parties.

For instance, in the 1924 election, The German National People's party (DNVP) got 20% of the vote and the Zentrum Party (The right wing Catholic Party) got 14% of the vote. The "Legal" version of the Nazis under Eric Ludendorf (Hitler was in prison at the time for his role in the Beer Hall Putsch) 6% of the vote.

On the left, the Social Democrats got 21% and the Communists got 9%.

May 1924 German federal election - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Flash forward to the 1932 election.

The Nazis got 37% of the vote. The Center shrank to 12% and the DNVP shrank to 6%. The SPD actually did better, it got 21% while the Communists got 14%. The problem was the Communists and SPD couldn't form a coalition, but HItler was able to form one with the DNVP, Centrum and other right wing parties.

 

[gipper]

Uh, not really.

Mac has been on this "Democrats are too far to the left" when Hillary was the candidate, and has even tried to portray her loss as "The left going too far". (When in fact, the reality was that too many people voted third party as a protest vote thinking everyone else wouldn't be stupid enough to let Trump win.)

The reality is, the best success Democrats had is when they ran Obama who was unashamedly leftist. You do better when you stand for something. The same can be said of Republicans, their best performance in recent years has been when they ran someone (Bush Jr.) who was unapologetically right wing.

Do the Partisans dominate both parties too much? Yes. But as Woody Allen once said, "90% of success is showing up." The partisans have say because they are the ones who contribute, who volunteer for campaigns, who walk a precinct getting the vote out, who drive the nice old lady next door to the polling place.

Lol. Oh Joe WTF!

Ears appeared unabashed left, but was your typical run-of-mill establishment elitist warmonger. You like many got duped.

He and W are blood brothers from different mothers. Both men ruled exactly the same.

As potus, he did exactly nothing that could be considered left wing or progressive.