The trouble with race based Crime statistics.

[JQPublic1]

]Civil Rights legislation emanates from the XIV Amendment of the U.S. Constitution.

You're playing the misdirection game with definitions. The Civil Rights to which you refer are the right to vote, to be treated as an equal.

Those rights are not in jeopardy. The modern version of "civil rights" involves actual violations of the human rights of others. For a black man not to be insulted by a rejection of private employment based on the fact that he's black, the employer is FORCED to associate with that black man by hiring him. Dignity is not a human right. Freedom of association is. In order to spare dignity modern American "civil rights" law violates human rights.

Citing the XIVth Amendment is not misdirection. It is guidance! Perhaps you should have read it before ranting. You knew you didn't have a leg to stand on but that didn't stop you, did it. Noooo ! you were determined to circumvent the obvious. Is that why you omitted part of my quote pertaining to White women benefitting more from civil rights legislation as well as Affirmative Action? Don't dodge it, be a man and face the truth for once! Another thing. Your anecdote is spurious to say the least. No private sector employee is required to hire Black people. All he has to do is stop taking government contracts or subsidies! There is no force involved at all! BTW, do you complain when Black soldiers are hired and go off to war for this country?

There are all sorts of racial give-aways, set asides, spoils and redistribution programs in place which find cover under perverted "civil rights" laws, law which have significantly deviated from the understanding we all have that civil rights focus on the government treating every citizen civilly and fairly, without bias or favoritism. Some future Supreme Court or Constitutional clarification will eventually correct this error, just like with Dred Scott.

I don't know of any specific "giveaways" that apply solely to African AMericans. I am aware that Black veteran's have skills learned in the military that can be valuable to an employer; private or government employers. Most likely these Black Vets are people of solid character and have excellent health and work ethics. Otherwise they would never have made it through boot camp. Many go on to retire in from the service which means they had to pass physical and mental testing yearly just to stay in. All VETS get preference in government jobs and Blacks VETS are no exception!

Your "offer" wouldn't get pass the Supreme Court. My rejection of Race Based Crime statistics probably would.

If there's no benefit to me, then I have no need to negotiate, which makes your plan to hide embarrassing racial crime data very hard to defend because I would be thwarting your plan at every step.

I couldn't care less about your "thwarting." Plus, I never said I'd negotiate with you in the first place. You came up with that cock-eyed strategy and took off with it on your own. I have no need or desire to negotiate with you on anything. To further address your straw-man scenario ,whereas my alleged plan to hide "embarrassing race crime data" is so hard to defend, I really had to chuckle. I don't see it as embarrassing at all. What should be embarrassing to YOU is your unabashed bigotry!

You see, neither approach, yours nor mine, is actually a good policy - hiding data is simply bad public policy.

Speak for yourself. There is already plenty of people hiding data that would be far more detrimental to the public interests than race crime statistics. Anyway, I was not proposing the hiding of data. if it isn't collected it is not hidden it just doesn't exist.

There's nothing I can do right now to stop blacks, and their enablers in the liberal army, from oppressing society with their racial quotas, so I'm choosing the lesser evil of denying you access to the
information you use to practice that extortion. I'd much rather have open information for everyone and just deny you the legal cover for extortion and racial spoils programs, in other words, force you to make peace with living in a society of equal opportunity where everyone is treated equally even if all this equality results is seriously unequal OUTCOMES.

Your racism is shining through. However, you are right about one thing...there is NOTHING you can do to stop egalitarian efforts to level the playing field for ALL Americans, not just Blacks. You want to blame innocent Black victims for your failures and frustrations. Your acrimony against the Black community is impressive , stretching even to the genius of Dr. Neil Tyson. Nothing is good enough to quench the roaring flames of hate that seem to be burning inside you!

 

[JQPublic1]

The trouble with race based Crime statistics:

For more than two decades the FBI UCR and NVCS have been fodder for the promulgation of crime statistics broken down by race. The generalizations formed by many who view those statistics are manifested in many negative ways against innocent Blacks.

How so? You may ask! Numbers don’t lie!

Well, no, numbers do not lie; but, statistics can certainly be manipulated to compliment a lie. Here is how:

For example, one set of statistics may suggest that Blacks are 6 times more likely to commit a crime than Whites are due to the dynamics of proportionality. But, in that assumption a barely noticeable error emerges for the astute observer .

You see, the statistical statement is telling the reader that no matter where Blacks are; or, regardless of what social status they have obtained, they are universally 6 times more likely to commit that specific crime than any group of Whites would. That is patently false. Common sense would tell you that if a group of Hells Angels and a Black Baptist Choir were seated in a Red Lobster restaurant, those FBI statistics would be instantly reversed.

Now, reasonable people can see the fallacy in that statistical glitch but those inclined towards bigotry are blind to anything that might derail their book of numbers.

The statistical statement does certainly does not specify that any groups of blacks is 6 times more likely to commit a crime than any specific group of whites. Only a study of black churchgoers and white bikers could divulge the statistics in your example.

It's like saying black gangbangers are 6 times more likely than Jewish grandmothers to smoke crack cocaine.

It's a thoroughly idiotic comparison.

Stop lying, Meathead. You know full well that those race based crime statistics stigmatize ALL Black Americans regardless of how they interface with whites in any given situation.
It is NOT my comparison that is idiotic, that dubious distinction rests with the perpetrators of that racist paradigm. Again, in case you missed it...either dump race based statistics or expand it to include ethnic White groups too. That ought to be interesting!

 

[Meathead]

The trouble with race based Crime statistics:

For more than two decades the FBI UCR and NVCS have been fodder for the promulgation of crime statistics broken down by race. The generalizations formed by many who view those statistics are manifested in many negative ways against innocent Blacks.

How so? You may ask! Numbers don’t lie!

Well, no, numbers do not lie; but, statistics can certainly be manipulated to compliment a lie. Here is how:

For example, one set of statistics may suggest that Blacks are 6 times more likely to commit a crime than Whites are due to the dynamics of proportionality. But, in that assumption a barely noticeable error emerges for the astute observer .

You see, the statistical statement is telling the reader that no matter where Blacks are; or, regardless of what social status they have obtained, they are universally 6 times more likely to commit that specific crime than any group of Whites would. That is patently false. Common sense would tell you that if a group of Hells Angels and a Black Baptist Choir were seated in a Red Lobster restaurant, those FBI statistics would be instantly reversed.

Now, reasonable people can see the fallacy in that statistical glitch but those inclined towards bigotry are blind to anything that might derail their book of numbers.

The statistical statement does certainly does not specify that any groups of blacks is 6 times more likely to commit a crime than any specific group of whites. Only a study of black churchgoers and white bikers could divulge the statistics in your example.

It's like saying black gangbangers are 6 times more likely than Jewish grandmothers to smoke crack cocaine.

It's a thoroughly idiotic comparison.

Stop lying, Meathead. You know full well that those race based crime statistics stigmatize ALL Black Americans regardless of how they interface with whites in any given situation.
It is NOT my comparison that is idiotic, that dubious distinction rests with the perpetrators of that racist paradigm. Again, in case you missed it...either dump race based statistics or expand it to include ethnic White groups too. That ought to be interesting!

Wouldn't it be better if you were to stop trying to find blame and instead find solutions to the real victimization your "people" are suffering? You come off as just another race pimp. It seems no one cares as long as the terrible state of black America can be blamed on others.

When we come to grips with the underlying problem, then you might be able to deal with reality. Tyson, and all the inflating you want about black achievement will remain a false foundation of whatever it is you wish to build.

 

[Rikurzhen]

Stop lying, Meathead. You know full well that those race based crime statistics stigmatize ALL Black Americans regardless of how they interface with whites in any given situation.

President Obama is not stigmatized, neither is Neil Tyson, neither is Ben Carson, neither is Thomas Sowell, neither is Clarence Thomas, etc.

When we have specific information about an individual we no longer need general information.

So while the actions of your community stigmatize you, then provide great benefit to me and to the rest of society.

The solution to your stigmatization is for your own community to get it's act together.

 

[Nutz]

In a world where people are judged by the content of their character and not by the color of their skin, your offer might have merit.

The political left will never allow such a world.

Link?

Yeah...link. Not true because we all know that teapers base everything on race. Pathetic!

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

The political left will never allow such a world.

Link?

Yeah...link. Not true because we all know that teapers base everything on race. Pathetic!

If there were no races and genders and social classes to divide people among there would be no Democratic Party. Everything is about race when it comes to the left. Have a problem with Obama's policies? It's because he's black. Didn't get that promotion? It's because you're a woman. Got stiffed on a tip? It's because you're a gay waiter. The left does nothing but exploit people based on what color they are, who they sleep with, and/or what they have between their legs. You people clamor for equality, but you're the most bigoted fuckers that exist and the biggest dividers there are.

Please stop pretending like you don't know this. Elvis left that building a long time ago.

 

[Nutz]

Link?

Yeah...link. Not true because we all know that teapers base everything on race. Pathetic!

If there were no races and genders and social classes to divide people among there would be no Democratic Party. Everything is about race when it comes to the left. Have a problem with Obama's policies? It's because he's black. Didn't get that promotion? It's because you're a woman. Got stiffed on a tip? It's because you're a gay waiter. The left does nothing but exploit people based on what color they are, who they sleep with, and/or what they have between their legs. You people clamor for equality, but you're the most bigoted fuckers that exist and the biggest dividers there are.

Please stop pretending like you don't know this. Elvis left that building a long time ago.

BLah, blah blah...more nonsense for teaper idiots who deny they use race as they call Obama a ******.

 

[JQPublic1]

The statistical statement does certainly does not specify that any groups of blacks is 6 times more likely to commit a crime than any specific group of whites. Only a study of black churchgoers and white bikers could divulge the statistics in your example.

It's like saying black gangbangers are 6 times more likely than Jewish grandmothers to smoke crack cocaine.

It's a thoroughly idiotic comparison.

Stop lying, Meathead. You know full well that those race based crime statistics stigmatize ALL Black Americans regardless of how they interface with whites in any given situation.
It is NOT my comparison that is idiotic, that dubious distinction rests with the perpetrators of that racist paradigm. Again, in case you missed it...either dump race based statistics or expand it to include ethnic White groups too. That ought to be interesting!

Wouldn't it be better if you were to stop trying to find blame and instead find solutions to the real victimization your "people" are suffering? You come off as just another race pimp. It seems no one cares as long as the terrible state of black America can be blamed on others.

My "people" are the American people...including YOU, unfortunately.
I am not only concerned about the Black crime rate, but the rate of crime in general by ALL so-called races. Again...you keep ignoring this so I'll keep posting it:

Either dump race based statistics or expand it to include ethnic White groups too. That ought to be interesting

When we come to grips with the underlying problem, then you might be able to deal with reality.

The reality is that crime is a problem that ought to be addressed by all of us, White and Black. Those of us with jobs pay taxes , some of which need to be used for that purpose. Black America is not a separate nation as you seem to insinuate. And, although Black spending power is over 1 trillion annually, the taxes paid on that are not controlled by Blacks. If it was, your claim that we aren't coming to grips with the "black crime " problem might have some standing.

Tyson, and all the inflating you want about black achievement will remain a false foundation of whatever it is you wish to build.

Come on Meathead, stay with me now. I have not been inflating Black achievement. If Americans make someone a hero who are you and I to dispute it. It is mostly White people who seem to like Tyson and Dr. Carson. Obama too, for that matter; otherwise he would never have been president twice! You haters are in the minority!

 

[JQPublic1]

Stop lying, Meathead. You know full well that those race based crime statistics stigmatize ALL Black Americans regardless of how they interface with whites in any given situation.

President Obama is not stigmatized, neither is Neil Tyson, neither is Ben Carson, neither is Thomas Sowell, neither is Clarence Thomas, etc.

When we have specific information about an individual we no longer need general information.

So while the actions of your community stigmatize you, then provide great benefit to me and to the rest of society.

The solution to your stigmatization is for your own community to get it's act together.

I took the liberty to embolden the core of your premise above. The key here is that you assume what black gangs or criminals do make them a part of my community. It make no difference if I live in New Mexico and the gangs thrive on the east and west coasts..to you, they are part of my community. Meanwhile, 74% of rapes are committed by White males...but, if Blacks commit a fraction of that, the proportional impact makes your females feel safer in a White neighborhood. That's dangerous thinking!

Raw numbers mean something too and "White" America needs to get it's act together.
don't preach to me about morality and crime when you obviously have yet to get a handle on your own! White people control virtually all of the resources needed to combat crime and still, it spreads like fire in their communities!

 

[JQPublic1]

Link?

Yeah...link. Not true because we all know that teapers base everything on race. Pathetic!

If there were no races and genders and social classes to divide people among there would be no Democratic Party. Everything is about race when it comes to the left. Have a problem with Obama's policies? It's because he's black. Didn't get that promotion? It's because you're a woman. Got stiffed on a tip? It's because you're a gay waiter. The left does nothing but exploit people based on what color they are, who they sleep with, and/or what they have between their legs. You people clamor for equality, but you're the most bigoted fuckers that exist and the biggest dividers there are.

Please stop pretending like you don't know this. Elvis left that building a long time ago.

Well, uh, the Democrat party is older than those other upstarts, including the Republican Party.

You are right though, the Democrat Party is more democratic than the present day GOP and it's subsidiary, the Tea Party. That democratic ideal is what addresses all the grievances you mentioned above. The common folk got tired of the Draconian American male oriented Taliban and found a sensible alternative in Barrack Obama. The "Left" it seem,s is exploiting itself and taking advantage of the combined power of all social and ethnic groups who have been wronged and stepped on by right Wing zealots. Its a new day!

 

[Rikurzhen]

The key here is that you assume what black gangs or criminals do make them a part of my community. It make no difference if I live in New Mexico and the gangs thrive on the east and west coasts..to you, they are part of my community.

I don't have to make any assumption, your own arguments make the case that you see racial statistics at detrimental to the black community.

Here's my suggestion to you. If you don't see black criminals as part of your community, then you have nothing to complain about.

Meanwhile, 74% of rapes are committed by White males...but, if Blacks commit a fraction of that, the proportional impact makes your females feel safer in a White neighborhood. That's dangerous thinking!

Women's thinking on personal safety is not solely influenced by rape statistics. White victims of robbery by a black perpetrators occur at 3X the proportional rate. It's only prudent to be wary in light of these statistics.

What you're doing is attempting to make "people noticing reality" a bad thing, something to condemn. The solution to this problem lies with the black community not committing so many crimes. Once you solve that problem then the crime of "people noticing reality" won't produce the outcomes you don't like.

Raw numbers mean something too and "White" America needs to get it's act together.don't preach to me about morality and crime when you obviously have yet to get a handle on your own! White people control virtually all of the resources needed to combat crime and still, it spreads like fire in their communities!

Since we've outlawed Redlining, white communities don't actually have the most powerful tools to control crime in their neighborhoods.

If you're a home buyer and you can only look at one statistic to predict how safe your new community is from the crime of homicide, knowing the percent of the community who is black is, by far, the best predictor.

 

[DickJohnson]

We have to make decisions every day about safety and these stats help us do that. I don't care if I never see a "black" out in public but I know that isn't reality. I am also not burdened by white guilt so knowing a "black person" isn't a priority for me. It is insidious to suggest the public not be made aware of these facts. Those FBI stats are skewed the other way since whites and Hispanics are lumped together in the offender categories.

 

[JQPublic1]

The key here is that you assume what black gangs or criminals do make them a part of my community. It make no difference if I live in New Mexico and the gangs thrive on the east and west coasts..to you, they are part of my community.

I don't have to make any assumption, your own arguments make the case that you see racial statistics at detrimental to the black community.

Personally, I see the term "black community" as a tool of convenience for managing the great racial divide. The Black community is not a place, it is a combination of physiognomy and skin color which White America refuses to assimilate completely. Still, we rise... ensconced amidst the furor and violence of unbridled thuggery. The Black Christian is victimized most by his own kind as is the white man his own kind. But the real injury comes when innocent Blacks, already burdened by pervasive stereotypes, are lumped in together with their criminal attackers; thereafter to be reduced to a statistic through arbitrary association of skin color.
That is my grievance...mine alone!

 

[JQPublic1]

here's my suggestion to you. If you don't see black criminals as part of your community, then you have nothing to complain about.

Thanks for your suggestion, but how I see Back criminals is not the root of my complaint. Its how the majority of White people see black criminals; and, more often than not, Black criminals are viewed by low information Whites as typical representatives of the" Black community."
Race based crime statistics, I believe, perpetuate, that stereotype.

Meanwhile, 74% of rapes are committed by White males...but, if Blacks commit a fraction of that, the proportional impact makes your females feel safer in a White neighborhood. That's dangerous thinking!

Women's thinking on personal safety is not solely influenced by rape statistics. White victims of robbery by a black perpetrators occur at 3X the proportional rate. It's only prudent to be wary in light of these statistics.

Since you mentioned robbery, 50,000 arrests of White perps is no laughing matter for the victims…it just seems worse when a Black guy does it,,,right?

What you're doing is attempting to make "people noticing reality" a bad thing, something to condemn. The solution to this problem lies with the black community not committing so many crimes. Once you solve that problem then the crime of "people noticing reality" won't produce the outcomes you don't like
.

NOPE, I have already said I’d be for this statistical game if the monolithic White statistic was divided into ethnicities or national ancestry. We know, for instance that Swedes, Norwegians, Finns settled in the Northwest, Germans took the South/South east ;the UK crowd took the North east, so on and so forth. Let’s see who is committing the most crime in the White community!

BTW, how do you propose that Blacks solve any crime problems when you can’t do it with your own kind? Just curious!

 

[JQPublic1]

Raw numbers mean something too and "White" America needs to get it's act together.don't preach to me about morality and crime when you obviously have yet to get a handle on your own! White people control virtually all of the resources needed to combat crime and still, it spreads like fire in their communities!

Since we've outlawed Redlining, white communities don't actually have the most powerful tools to control crime in their neighborhoods.

If you're a home buyer and you can only look at one statistic to predict how safe your new community is from the crime of homicide, knowing the percent of the community who is black is, by far, the best predictor.

[/QUOTE]

That's nice but a white man is far more likely to be killed by a White perpetrator than a Black one. Redlining didn’t keep White on White crime down, that is what we were presently discussing! You are still making Blacks the target of your fears when the real menace looks just like YOU!

 

[JQPublic1]

We have to make decisions every day about safety and these stats help us do that. I don't care if I never see a "black" out in public but I know that isn't reality. I am also not burdened by white guilt so knowing a "black person" isn't a priority for me. It is insidious to suggest the public not be made aware of these facts. Those FBI stats are skewed the other way since whites and Hispanics are lumped together in the offender categories.

No problem let's break the stats down even further into ethnic groups. Some European groups are more prone to crime than others...lets see which ones!

 

[Rikurzhen]

Thanks for your suggestion, but how I see Back criminals is not the root of my complaint. Its how the majority of White people see black criminals; and, more often than not, Black criminals are viewed by low information Whites as typical representatives of the" Black community."

Race based crime statistics, I believe, perpetuate, that stereotype.

Don't shoot the messenger. If there's a problem with how an audience views the black community because of the criminality of some blacks, then blacks should work to reform the members of their community who commit so many crimes. This reform will change how people view them.

Follow the Asian model. We actually went to brutal war with 3 Asian countries, meaning that there exists plenty of rational plus emotional reason to view Japanese, Korean and Vietnamese Americans through a negative lens. However, because of their behavior in America they receive a very positive reception.

The message starts with the community.

NOPE, I have already said I’d be for this statistical game if the monolithic White statistic was divided into ethnicities or national ancestry. We know, for instance that Swedes, Norwegians, Finns settled in the Northwest, Germans took the South/South east ;the UK crowd took the North east, so on and so forth. Let’s see who is committing the most crime in the White community!

Race is an attribute that is easy to identify and so it is a useful metric to keep track of. How are police going to identify a Norwegian-American from a Swedish-American if the arrested man is not self-identifying? How about if he lies? How will the public know a Norwegian-American from a Swedish-American when a stranger is walking down the street?

Also, you do realize that African-Americans also have Africa-rooted ethnicities. Secondly, and very problematic for you, is that there is vastly more inter-ethnic mating than there is inter-racial mating, so we rarely see a white person identifying as a German-American because his great-great-grandfather immigrated from Germany. Thirdly, a lot of white Americans don't claim any ethnicity other than American. They claim a racial identity - white and so are on par with blacks who also claim a racial identity but don't see themselves as Akan-Americans, Igbo-Americans, or Hausa-Americans because there was also vastly more inter-ethnic mating amongst the black community than there was inter-racial mating. An African-American still identifies with his long ago slave ancestor's racial identity, not that ancestor's tribal identity. Race is in a totally different category than ethnicity.

BTW, how do you propose that Blacks solve any crime problems when you can’t do it with your own kind? Just curious!

I don't see that white criminality is that large of a problem. You figure out what to do with your community, the goal is to bring down black criminality to white levels and once you do that the perception problem you complain about will go away.

 

[Meathead]

The trouble is that a 14% demographic commits crimes in unbelievable disproportion. It starts with murder at 49.7 and goes from there:

FBI ? Table 43

 

[Friends]

What matters is that blacks have a rate of violent crime that is over seven times the white rate. For that reason race profiling is appropriate, and whites should avoid the presence of young black men they do not know.

John Derbyshire wrote an excellent essay on how to avoid black crime. It is entitled, "The Talk: Non black Version."

The Talk: Nonblack Version - Taki's Magazine

Blacks also tend to be highly sexed and stupid, but those are topics for another thread.

I have spent my adult life learning that racial stereotypes I was taught to reject as a child are true.

 

[JQPublic1]

Thanks for your suggestion, but how I see Back criminals is not the root of my complaint. Its how the majority of White people see black criminals; and, more often than not, Black criminals are viewed by low information Whites as typical representatives of the" Black community."

Race based crime statistics, I believe, perpetuate, that stereotype.

Don't shoot the messenger. If there's a problem with how an audience views the black community because of the criminality of some blacks, then blacks should work to reform the members of their community who commit so many crimes. This reform will change how people view them.

Ostensibly, your advice seems sound, but is it based in reality? Here is a better proposal. Black and White crime is rampant in America. Why don’t decent citizens from every corner of this country get together and force our federal and state governments to implement programs to combat ALL crime.
We all pay tax dollars to the same government entities so why should White people be the sole arbiters of how and where dollars earmarked for crime fighting should be spent? Your advice might make sense if Blacks had any degree of national autonomy whereas their tax dollars could be used to serve the needs of their “communities.” We know that isn’t the case.

Follow the Asian model. We actually went to brutal war with 3 Asian countries, meaning that there exists plenty of rational plus emotional reason to view Japanese, Korean and Vietnamese Americans through a negative lens. However, because of their behavior in America they receive a very positive reception.

Do you even realize what you are saying? The majority of Blacks in America are decent hardworking people who pay taxes just like you do. To suggest they emulate an Asian “model” is nothing less than disingenuous. BTW haven’t you heard that a new “model minority” has emerged in the last decade or so? Guess what, its African immigrants. Their academic and social achievements often parallel and even surpass those of Asian immigrants, not only here in the USAS but in the UK as well. When will that minority be recognized to the point that even the most jaded bigots will hear about it?

The message starts with the community.

Er…I guess you ought to know, your message hasn’t reached the legions of White criminals who are hunting you daily! They seem to prefer “white meat.”