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The three choices Truman had. Was there really any choice?

Unkotare

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The insane strategy of the time was to keep killing civilians until the maniacs surrendered. FDR even had a mockup of a German city erected as a target to see which incendiary devices would be the most effective in urban civilian environments. The propaganda of the time managed to convince Americans that the Japanese were sub-human and the Bomb was just an extension of the insanity. Japan would probably have dropped it on the U.S. if they had the chance and so would the Nazis. but the winning side gets to write the history books and justify the atrocities.
Geee, if only they would not have been the ravaging barbarians they were, then perhaps they would not have reaped what they sowed.......


So you're saying the atomic bomb was used for revenge rather than military necessity? Those hundreds of thousands of civilians were annihilated as an act of revenge?
 

CrusaderFrank

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The real reason the US dropped the bombs on Japan IMO. After the Yalta conference, it is important to know that is when the official COLD WAR began with the USSR. It is important to know WHEN that was. February of 1945. Ok? About 6 months before the Hiroshima bomb.

The USSR (Stalin) was making a power move. Yalta became controversial after Soviet-American wartime cooperation degenerated into the cold war. Stalin broke his promise of free elections in Eastern Europe and installed governments dominated by the Soviet Union. Then American critics charged that Roosevelt, who died two months after the conference, had “sold out” to the Soviets at Yalta.

Stalin was not stopping there. He was also encroaching in the Far East. The valuable trade routes were certainly catching his attention. It is apparent that there were clandestine meetings going on between Japan and the USSR. I am sure Stalin was negotiating for Japan to surrender to him and Japan would be able to save some face with the Japanese people. Making it attractive to the emperor.

This is the interesting timeline.

February 1945 the Yalta Conference where the official COLD WAR began.

August 6th 1945, the US drops bomb on Hiroshima.

August 8th 1945, the USSR declares WAR ON JAPAN after invading Japan after the USSR invades Manchuria.

August 9th 1945, second bomb dropped on Japan.

August 15th 1945, Japan surrenders and ends WWII.

Now, imagine this if you are in Truman's shoes. It is rather obvious the USSR was pushing its weight around and trying to take Japan. Stalin counting on the fact that the US could not stomach another long drawn out war. Not with Japan (that was over) but with the USSR.

Patton had seen this and wanted to go to war with the USSR. He rightfully pointed out that the USSR would be a major problem, and their army was greatly weakened. Many of their war factories were bombed where the US war factories were in perfect working order. The US Armed forces hardware were already in the region and so the logistics were pretty much in place.

Politically, it would have been impossible for Truman to sell that to the American people. Stalin counted on that and he used that as an opportunity to take Japan.

So, what are the choices?

1. Allow Japan to just surrender to Stalin and the USSR takes over the region even though they had NOT fought in that campaign and lost no one. How would that have been sold to the American people?


2. Go to war with the USSR like Patton wanted. The US would most likely have won the war, but we would not have had an ally in the UK who were decimated. It would have cost hundreds of thousands of lives. The USSR Army, while greatly weakened would have been very tough to beat. How would that have been sold to a war weary American public?

3. Drop the bombs to get the USSR to back the hell off. Sell it like it has been sold all of these years. It is true that it would have saved thousands of American lives. Just not with Japan, but with a HOT conflict with the USSR.


Those are the choices. What do you do? It is important to remember that the "axis and allies" of WWII was done after the Yalta Conference. That is precisely when the COLD WAR began. No longer at the time of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were the USSR and the US allies.

What do you do?

See how right Patton was about the USSR?

FDR was a Stalin sock puppet who gleefully enslaved Eastern Europe under the thumb of his M\aster, Uncle Joe and sold out China to Mao

Ah the Right Wing Nut Jobs will never forgive FDR for leading the United States to victory in World War 2.

What victory? A Victory that left Eastern Europe in the hands of history's biggest mass murderer, "Uncle" Joe Stalin
 

Syriusly

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The real reason the US dropped the bombs on Japan IMO. After the Yalta conference, it is important to know that is when the official COLD WAR began with the USSR. It is important to know WHEN that was. February of 1945. Ok? About 6 months before the Hiroshima bomb.

The USSR (Stalin) was making a power move. Yalta became controversial after Soviet-American wartime cooperation degenerated into the cold war. Stalin broke his promise of free elections in Eastern Europe and installed governments dominated by the Soviet Union. Then American critics charged that Roosevelt, who died two months after the conference, had “sold out” to the Soviets at Yalta.

Stalin was not stopping there. He was also encroaching in the Far East. The valuable trade routes were certainly catching his attention. It is apparent that there were clandestine meetings going on between Japan and the USSR. I am sure Stalin was negotiating for Japan to surrender to him and Japan would be able to save some face with the Japanese people. Making it attractive to the emperor.

This is the interesting timeline.

February 1945 the Yalta Conference where the official COLD WAR began.

August 6th 1945, the US drops bomb on Hiroshima.

August 8th 1945, the USSR declares WAR ON JAPAN after invading Japan after the USSR invades Manchuria.

August 9th 1945, second bomb dropped on Japan.

August 15th 1945, Japan surrenders and ends WWII.

Now, imagine this if you are in Truman's shoes. It is rather obvious the USSR was pushing its weight around and trying to take Japan. Stalin counting on the fact that the US could not stomach another long drawn out war. Not with Japan (that was over) but with the USSR.

Patton had seen this and wanted to go to war with the USSR. He rightfully pointed out that the USSR would be a major problem, and their army was greatly weakened. Many of their war factories were bombed where the US war factories were in perfect working order. The US Armed forces hardware were already in the region and so the logistics were pretty much in place.

Politically, it would have been impossible for Truman to sell that to the American people. Stalin counted on that and he used that as an opportunity to take Japan.

So, what are the choices?

1. Allow Japan to just surrender to Stalin and the USSR takes over the region even though they had NOT fought in that campaign and lost no one. How would that have been sold to the American people?


2. Go to war with the USSR like Patton wanted. The US would most likely have won the war, but we would not have had an ally in the UK who were decimated. It would have cost hundreds of thousands of lives. The USSR Army, while greatly weakened would have been very tough to beat. How would that have been sold to a war weary American public?

3. Drop the bombs to get the USSR to back the hell off. Sell it like it has been sold all of these years. It is true that it would have saved thousands of American lives. Just not with Japan, but with a HOT conflict with the USSR.


Those are the choices. What do you do? It is important to remember that the "axis and allies" of WWII was done after the Yalta Conference. That is precisely when the COLD WAR began. No longer at the time of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were the USSR and the US allies.

What do you do?

See how right Patton was about the USSR?

FDR was a Stalin sock puppet who gleefully enslaved Eastern Europe under the thumb of his M\aster, Uncle Joe and sold out China to Mao

Ah the Right Wing Nut Jobs will never forgive FDR for leading the United States to victory in World War 2.

What victory? A Victory that left Eastern Europe in the hands of history's biggest mass murderer, "Uncle" Joe Stalin

Yep- like I said- Right Wing Nut Jobs will never forgive FDR or Truman for the United States victory in World War 2.

Or for the United States emerging as the most powerful nation in the world. Or for the United States emerging with the highest standard of living in the world.

Just pisses them off.
 
OP
Theowl32

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The real reason the US dropped the bombs on Japan IMO. After the Yalta conference, it is important to know that is when the official COLD WAR began with the USSR. It is important to know WHEN that was. February of 1945. Ok? About 6 months before the Hiroshima bomb.

The USSR (Stalin) was making a power move. Yalta became controversial after Soviet-American wartime cooperation degenerated into the cold war. Stalin broke his promise of free elections in Eastern Europe and installed governments dominated by the Soviet Union. Then American critics charged that Roosevelt, who died two months after the conference, had “sold out” to the Soviets at Yalta.

Stalin was not stopping there. He was also encroaching in the Far East. The valuable trade routes were certainly catching his attention. It is apparent that there were clandestine meetings going on between Japan and the USSR. I am sure Stalin was negotiating for Japan to surrender to him and Japan would be able to save some face with the Japanese people. Making it attractive to the emperor.

This is the interesting timeline.

February 1945 the Yalta Conference where the official COLD WAR began.

August 6th 1945, the US drops bomb on Hiroshima.

August 8th 1945, the USSR declares WAR ON JAPAN after invading Japan after the USSR invades Manchuria.

August 9th 1945, second bomb dropped on Japan.

August 15th 1945, Japan surrenders and ends WWII.

Now, imagine this if you are in Truman's shoes. It is rather obvious the USSR was pushing its weight around and trying to take Japan. Stalin counting on the fact that the US could not stomach another long drawn out war. Not with Japan (that was over) but with the USSR.

Patton had seen this and wanted to go to war with the USSR. He rightfully pointed out that the USSR would be a major problem, and their army was greatly weakened. Many of their war factories were bombed where the US war factories were in perfect working order. The US Armed forces hardware were already in the region and so the logistics were pretty much in place.

Politically, it would have been impossible for Truman to sell that to the American people. Stalin counted on that and he used that as an opportunity to take Japan.

So, what are the choices?

1. Allow Japan to just surrender to Stalin and the USSR takes over the region even though they had NOT fought in that campaign and lost no one. How would that have been sold to the American people?


2. Go to war with the USSR like Patton wanted. The US would most likely have won the war, but we would not have had an ally in the UK who were decimated. It would have cost hundreds of thousands of lives. The USSR Army, while greatly weakened would have been very tough to beat. How would that have been sold to a war weary American public?

3. Drop the bombs to get the USSR to back the hell off. Sell it like it has been sold all of these years. It is true that it would have saved thousands of American lives. Just not with Japan, but with a HOT conflict with the USSR.


Those are the choices. What do you do? It is important to remember that the "axis and allies" of WWII was done after the Yalta Conference. That is precisely when the COLD WAR began. No longer at the time of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were the USSR and the US allies.

What do you do?

See how right Patton was about the USSR?

FDR was a Stalin sock puppet who gleefully enslaved Eastern Europe under the thumb of his M\aster, Uncle Joe and sold out China to Mao

Ah the Right Wing Nut Jobs will never forgive FDR for leading the United States to victory in World War 2.

What victory? A Victory that left Eastern Europe in the hands of history's biggest mass murderer, "Uncle" Joe Stalin

Yep- like I said- Right Wing Nut Jobs will never forgive FDR or Truman for the United States victory in World War 2.

Or for the United States emerging as the most powerful nation in the world. Or for the United States emerging with the highest standard of living in the world.

Just pisses them off.
You really do come across like an ignorant blow hard.

Of course you are going to leave out the fact that Germany was allowed to build up a war machine despite the loud cries of Churchill. As Germany violated all resolutions of the Treaty of Versailles, Joe Kennedy who was appointed ambassador to England was certainly an architect of the great appeasement. After all America was doing business with Germany. For instance Hugo Boss was one of the more successful garments for American merchants. Oh, Hugo Boss also happened to be a German company that exclusively dressed the SS and Hitler himself.


Ahhhh, but that does not count. Only an ignorant hack would blame "Hoover" for the crash.

What we do know is your soviet paradise could not last 100 years. LOL!

Also, take a look at how free market capitalism contributed far more to the recovery from the depression than any "social program" FDR implemented.

Want me to list the ways the free market contributed to the recovery? How many companies were started in the 30s?

Let me know if you want me to educate you on how our free market saved us and not some socialist policy that you socialist propaganda pushers love to push on the gullible and ignorant.
 

beagle9

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The real reason the US dropped the bombs on Japan IMO. After the Yalta conference, it is important to know that is when the official COLD WAR began with the USSR. It is important to know WHEN that was. February of 1945. Ok? About 6 months before the Hiroshima bomb.

The USSR (Stalin) was making a power move. Yalta became controversial after Soviet-American wartime cooperation degenerated into the cold war. Stalin broke his promise of free elections in Eastern Europe and installed governments dominated by the Soviet Union. Then American critics charged that Roosevelt, who died two months after the conference, had “sold out” to the Soviets at Yalta.

Stalin was not stopping there. He was also encroaching in the Far East. The valuable trade routes were certainly catching his attention. It is apparent that there were clandestine meetings going on between Japan and the USSR. I am sure Stalin was negotiating for Japan to surrender to him and Japan would be able to save some face with the Japanese people. Making it attractive to the emperor.

This is the interesting timeline.

February 1945 the Yalta Conference where the official COLD WAR began.

August 6th 1945, the US drops bomb on Hiroshima.

August 8th 1945, the USSR declares WAR ON JAPAN after invading Japan after the USSR invades Manchuria.

August 9th 1945, second bomb dropped on Japan.

August 15th 1945, Japan surrenders and ends WWII.

Now, imagine this if you are in Truman's shoes. It is rather obvious the USSR was pushing its weight around and trying to take Japan. Stalin counting on the fact that the US could not stomach another long drawn out war. Not with Japan (that was over) but with the USSR.

Patton had seen this and wanted to go to war with the USSR. He rightfully pointed out that the USSR would be a major problem, and their army was greatly weakened. Many of their war factories were bombed where the US war factories were in perfect working order. The US Armed forces hardware were already in the region and so the logistics were pretty much in place.

Politically, it would have been impossible for Truman to sell that to the American people. Stalin counted on that and he used that as an opportunity to take Japan.

So, what are the choices?

1. Allow Japan to just surrender to Stalin and the USSR takes over the region even though they had NOT fought in that campaign and lost no one. How would that have been sold to the American people?


2. Go to war with the USSR like Patton wanted. The US would most likely have won the war, but we would not have had an ally in the UK who were decimated. It would have cost hundreds of thousands of lives. The USSR Army, while greatly weakened would have been very tough to beat. How would that have been sold to a war weary American public?

3. Drop the bombs to get the USSR to back the hell off. Sell it like it has been sold all of these years. It is true that it would have saved thousands of American lives. Just not with Japan, but with a HOT conflict with the USSR.


Those are the choices. What do you do? It is important to remember that the "axis and allies" of WWII was done after the Yalta Conference. That is precisely when the COLD WAR began. No longer at the time of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were the USSR and the US allies.

What do you do?

See how right Patton was about the USSR?

FDR was a Stalin sock puppet who gleefully enslaved Eastern Europe under the thumb of his M\aster, Uncle Joe and sold out China to Mao

Ah the Right Wing Nut Jobs will never forgive FDR for leading the United States to victory in World War 2.

What victory? A Victory that left Eastern Europe in the hands of history's biggest mass murderer, "Uncle" Joe Stalin

Yep- like I said- Right Wing Nut Jobs will never forgive FDR or Truman for the United States victory in World War 2.

Or for the United States emerging as the most powerful nation in the world. Or for the United States emerging with the highest standard of living in the world.

Just pisses them off.
If it pisses them off, then why are the libs doing everything in the power to destroy what FDR had accomplished back then ? Their literally biting off the hands that have fed them over these years.
 

regent

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The real reason the US dropped the bombs on Japan IMO. After the Yalta conference, it is important to know that is when the official COLD WAR began with the USSR. It is important to know WHEN that was. February of 1945. Ok? About 6 months before the Hiroshima bomb.

The USSR (Stalin) was making a power move. Yalta became controversial after Soviet-American wartime cooperation degenerated into the cold war. Stalin broke his promise of free elections in Eastern Europe and installed governments dominated by the Soviet Union. Then American critics charged that Roosevelt, who died two months after the conference, had “sold out” to the Soviets at Yalta.

Stalin was not stopping there. He was also encroaching in the Far East. The valuable trade routes were certainly catching his attention. It is apparent that there were clandestine meetings going on between Japan and the USSR. I am sure Stalin was negotiating for Japan to surrender to him and Japan would be able to save some face with the Japanese people. Making it attractive to the emperor.

This is the interesting timeline.

February 1945 the Yalta Conference where the official COLD WAR began.

August 6th 1945, the US drops bomb on Hiroshima.

August 8th 1945, the USSR declares WAR ON JAPAN after invading Japan after the USSR invades Manchuria.

August 9th 1945, second bomb dropped on Japan.

August 15th 1945, Japan surrenders and ends WWII.

Now, imagine this if you are in Truman's shoes. It is rather obvious the USSR was pushing its weight around and trying to take Japan. Stalin counting on the fact that the US could not stomach another long drawn out war. Not with Japan (that was over) but with the USSR.

Patton had seen this and wanted to go to war with the USSR. He rightfully pointed out that the USSR would be a major problem, and their army was greatly weakened. Many of their war factories were bombed where the US war factories were in perfect working order. The US Armed forces hardware were already in the region and so the logistics were pretty much in place.

Politically, it would have been impossible for Truman to sell that to the American people. Stalin counted on that and he used that as an opportunity to take Japan.

So, what are the choices?

1. Allow Japan to just surrender to Stalin and the USSR takes over the region even though they had NOT fought in that campaign and lost no one. How would that have been sold to the American people?


2. Go to war with the USSR like Patton wanted. The US would most likely have won the war, but we would not have had an ally in the UK who were decimated. It would have cost hundreds of thousands of lives. The USSR Army, while greatly weakened would have been very tough to beat. How would that have been sold to a war weary American public?

3. Drop the bombs to get the USSR to back the hell off. Sell it like it has been sold all of these years. It is true that it would have saved thousands of American lives. Just not with Japan, but with a HOT conflict with the USSR.


Those are the choices. What do you do? It is important to remember that the "axis and allies" of WWII was done after the Yalta Conference. That is precisely when the COLD WAR began. No longer at the time of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were the USSR and the US allies.

What do you do?

See how right Patton was about the USSR?

FDR was a Stalin sock puppet who gleefully enslaved Eastern Europe under the thumb of his M\aster, Uncle Joe and sold out China to Mao

Ah the Right Wing Nut Jobs will never forgive FDR for leading the United States to victory in World War 2.

What victory? A Victory that left Eastern Europe in the hands of history's biggest mass murderer, "Uncle" Joe Stalin

Yep- like I said- Right Wing Nut Jobs will never forgive FDR or Truman for the United States victory in World War 2.

Or for the United States emerging as the most powerful nation in the world. Or for the United States emerging with the highest standard of living in the world.

Just pisses them off.
You really do come across like an ignorant blow hard.

Of course you are going to leave out the fact that Germany was allowed to build up a war machine despite the loud cries of Churchill. As Germany violated all resolutions of the Treaty of Versailles, Joe Kennedy who was appointed ambassador to England was certainly an architect of the great appeasement. After all America was doing business with Germany. For instance Hugo Boss was one of the more successful garments for American merchants. Oh, Hugo Boss also happened to be a German company that exclusively dressed the SS and Hitler himself.


Ahhhh, but that does not count. Only an ignorant hack would blame "Hoover" for the crash.

What we do know is your soviet paradise could not last 100 years. LOL!

Also, take a look at how free market capitalism contributed far more to the recovery from the depression than any "social program" FDR implemented.

Want me to list the ways the free market contributed to the recovery? How many companies were started in the 30s?

Let me know if you want me to educate you on how our free market saved us and not some socialist policy that you socialist propaganda pushers love to push on the gullible and ignorant.
What is free market capitalism and when did the USA have it?
 
OP
Theowl32

Theowl32

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See how right Patton was about the USSR?

FDR was a Stalin sock puppet who gleefully enslaved Eastern Europe under the thumb of his M\aster, Uncle Joe and sold out China to Mao

Ah the Right Wing Nut Jobs will never forgive FDR for leading the United States to victory in World War 2.

What victory? A Victory that left Eastern Europe in the hands of history's biggest mass murderer, "Uncle" Joe Stalin

Yep- like I said- Right Wing Nut Jobs will never forgive FDR or Truman for the United States victory in World War 2.

Or for the United States emerging as the most powerful nation in the world. Or for the United States emerging with the highest standard of living in the world.

Just pisses them off.
You really do come across like an ignorant blow hard.

Of course you are going to leave out the fact that Germany was allowed to build up a war machine despite the loud cries of Churchill. As Germany violated all resolutions of the Treaty of Versailles, Joe Kennedy who was appointed ambassador to England was certainly an architect of the great appeasement. After all America was doing business with Germany. For instance Hugo Boss was one of the more successful garments for American merchants. Oh, Hugo Boss also happened to be a German company that exclusively dressed the SS and Hitler himself.


Ahhhh, but that does not count. Only an ignorant hack would blame "Hoover" for the crash.

What we do know is your soviet paradise could not last 100 years. LOL!

Also, take a look at how free market capitalism contributed far more to the recovery from the depression than any "social program" FDR implemented.

Want me to list the ways the free market contributed to the recovery? How many companies were started in the 30s?

Let me know if you want me to educate you on how our free market saved us and not some socialist policy that you socialist propaganda pushers love to push on the gullible and ignorant.
What is free market capitalism and when did the USA have it?
Holy shit
 

regent

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Ah the Right Wing Nut Jobs will never forgive FDR for leading the United States to victory in World War 2.

What victory? A Victory that left Eastern Europe in the hands of history's biggest mass murderer, "Uncle" Joe Stalin

Yep- like I said- Right Wing Nut Jobs will never forgive FDR or Truman for the United States victory in World War 2.

Or for the United States emerging as the most powerful nation in the world. Or for the United States emerging with the highest standard of living in the world.

Just pisses them off.
You really do come across like an ignorant blow hard.

Of course you are going to leave out the fact that Germany was allowed to build up a war machine despite the loud cries of Churchill. As Germany violated all resolutions of the Treaty of Versailles, Joe Kennedy who was appointed ambassador to England was certainly an architect of the great appeasement. After all America was doing business with Germany. For instance Hugo Boss was one of the more successful garments for American merchants. Oh, Hugo Boss also happened to be a German company that exclusively dressed the SS and Hitler himself.


Ahhhh, but that does not count. Only an ignorant hack would blame "Hoover" for the crash.

What we do know is your soviet paradise could not last 100 years. LOL!

Also, take a look at how free market capitalism contributed far more to the recovery from the depression than any "social program" FDR implemented.

Want me to list the ways the free market contributed to the recovery? How many companies were started in the 30s?

Let me know if you want me to educate you on how our free market saved us and not some socialist policy that you socialist propaganda pushers love to push on the gullible and ignorant.
What is free market capitalism and when did the USA have it?
Holy shit
If you don't know the answer why do you use the terms?
 

Syriusly

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The real reason the US dropped the bombs on Japan IMO. After the Yalta conference, it is important to know that is when the official COLD WAR began with the USSR. It is important to know WHEN that was. February of 1945. Ok? About 6 months before the Hiroshima bomb.

The USSR (Stalin) was making a power move. Yalta became controversial after Soviet-American wartime cooperation degenerated into the cold war. Stalin broke his promise of free elections in Eastern Europe and installed governments dominated by the Soviet Union. Then American critics charged that Roosevelt, who died two months after the conference, had “sold out” to the Soviets at Yalta.

Stalin was not stopping there. He was also encroaching in the Far East. The valuable trade routes were certainly catching his attention. It is apparent that there were clandestine meetings going on between Japan and the USSR. I am sure Stalin was negotiating for Japan to surrender to him and Japan would be able to save some face with the Japanese people. Making it attractive to the emperor.

This is the interesting timeline.

February 1945 the Yalta Conference where the official COLD WAR began.

August 6th 1945, the US drops bomb on Hiroshima.

August 8th 1945, the USSR declares WAR ON JAPAN after invading Japan after the USSR invades Manchuria.

August 9th 1945, second bomb dropped on Japan.

August 15th 1945, Japan surrenders and ends WWII.

Now, imagine this if you are in Truman's shoes. It is rather obvious the USSR was pushing its weight around and trying to take Japan. Stalin counting on the fact that the US could not stomach another long drawn out war. Not with Japan (that was over) but with the USSR.

Patton had seen this and wanted to go to war with the USSR. He rightfully pointed out that the USSR would be a major problem, and their army was greatly weakened. Many of their war factories were bombed where the US war factories were in perfect working order. The US Armed forces hardware were already in the region and so the logistics were pretty much in place.

Politically, it would have been impossible for Truman to sell that to the American people. Stalin counted on that and he used that as an opportunity to take Japan.

So, what are the choices?

1. Allow Japan to just surrender to Stalin and the USSR takes over the region even though they had NOT fought in that campaign and lost no one. How would that have been sold to the American people?


2. Go to war with the USSR like Patton wanted. The US would most likely have won the war, but we would not have had an ally in the UK who were decimated. It would have cost hundreds of thousands of lives. The USSR Army, while greatly weakened would have been very tough to beat. How would that have been sold to a war weary American public?

3. Drop the bombs to get the USSR to back the hell off. Sell it like it has been sold all of these years. It is true that it would have saved thousands of American lives. Just not with Japan, but with a HOT conflict with the USSR.


Those are the choices. What do you do? It is important to remember that the "axis and allies" of WWII was done after the Yalta Conference. That is precisely when the COLD WAR began. No longer at the time of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were the USSR and the US allies.

What do you do?

See how right Patton was about the USSR?

FDR was a Stalin sock puppet who gleefully enslaved Eastern Europe under the thumb of his M\aster, Uncle Joe and sold out China to Mao

Ah the Right Wing Nut Jobs will never forgive FDR for leading the United States to victory in World War 2.

What victory? A Victory that left Eastern Europe in the hands of history's biggest mass murderer, "Uncle" Joe Stalin

Yep- like I said- Right Wing Nut Jobs will never forgive FDR or Truman for the United States victory in World War 2.

Or for the United States emerging as the most powerful nation in the world. Or for the United States emerging with the highest standard of living in the world.

Just pisses them off.
If it pisses them off, then why are the libs doing everything in the power to destroy what FDR had accomplished back then ? Their literally biting off the hands that have fed them over these years.

Hmmm lets see- are liberals trying to:
a) End Social Security- no the only ones calling for an end to Social Security are conservatives
b) End the GI Bill- no- no liberal is calling for the end of the modern GI bill.
c) End of Band Depositors insurance- no- no liberal is calling for the end of bank depositors insurance
d) End the United States being the most powerful country in the world- nope- again not happening.
e) Are liberals calling for the end of our strong relationship with Japan and Germany- which was the end result of Truman and FDR's policies- again no.

Meanwhile- as I point out- Conservatives are just pissed off because all of that happened under Democrat Presidents and Democrat Congresses.

Which is why they keep on trying to pile crap on Truman and Roosevelt.
 

Picaro

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They had a substantial army. That is not really the point though. I think the US could beat them, just based on the significant logistical advantages. However, it would have been an endeavor that Truman would NOT have been able to sell.

I agree, I base it on hindsight entirely; it would have been the best option. I understand why they decided not to go against the Soviets at the time. I think both FDR and Truman underestimated both Stalin and Truman, and if they had known what the aftermath was going to be like they likely would have gone on with a war, at least a limited one.

The simple fact is Stalin was encroaching on the far east. It was very valuable and Japan dominated the entire region. They were formidable and extremely ruthless. Even more ruthless than the nazis.

The Japanese still had a lot of troops on the mainland, yes. The outcome wasn't at all certain at the time whether all of the military units would abide by the surrender or follow the Emperor's proclamations. They were used to telling the Emperor what to do, not the other way around.

Anyway, the strange coincidence that the DAY BEFORE the US dropped "fat man" on Nagasaki, the USSR had declared WAR ON JAPAN. That was on August 8th and August 9th the US dropped second bomb.

Effectively ending the war and clearly stopping Stalin's encroachment. That is until they got a bomb of their own. Thanks Rosenbergs.

So, the bombs were as much about stopping the USSR or at the very least letting them know what will happen if they are pushed to a HOT war.

I agree, but that doesn't make it the only reason they were dropped. There are often several good reasons that converge that influence decisions.
 
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Picaro

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Re option 2 the Soviet Union wasn't that hard to beat, as it was us who kept them in the war at all; while a substantial amount of western aid was still in their hands, and their machine tools were up to date, it wouldn't have been enough to stop a U.S. effort to drive them out of the eastern European countries and back to their own borders.

By 1945 that was no longer the case. By 1945 the Soviets had the most powerful army in the world, and likely the second most powerful air force. Their factories had been moved far east, and they had all of the Western rail engines to move their cargo with.

We easily could have lost more men than we lost against either Germany or Japan- the Soviets had superior armor, more artillery, and a decent air force. Our strengths- our naval power- was meaningless against the Soviets- our air power would likely have prevailed eventually- but until then our armor would have been chopped up by Soviet T34/85's and JS II's and JS III's.

Drivel.
 

Picaro

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What a lack of imagination.
The Soviets would not have been looking for an Enola Gay and would not have intercepted it. They, nor anyone else, would have known what hit them. The Soviet system was notoriously top-down. Take out an officer and the entire unit stopped until politically correct replacements were found. A few key generals assassinated concurrently, and Bob's your uncle.
Make it look like some kind of Nazi vengeance weapon, or a Soviet accident. Or show there was Soviet provocation, with 'proof' they were about to invade France. By the time anyone had the slightest idea about the 'truth' (whatever that was or is), it would all be a 'fait accompli'.
Look at the Gulf of Tonkin, the Mexican-American War, the Iraq invasion. People still believe the excuses. Heck, some still think Pearl Harbor was a surprise!
No Iron Curtain. No Cold War. Perfect and permanent U.S. hegemony. Pax Americana for generations.

It would certainly have saved around a hundred million lives; Mao wouldn't have been nearly as effective a butcher and murderer without Stalin's aid, not to mention all the famines and horrors in Soviet puppet states like Egypt, Cambodia, Viet Nam, Zaire, ad nauseam.
 

Syriusly

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Re option 2 the Soviet Union wasn't that hard to beat, as it was us who kept them in the war at all; while a substantial amount of western aid was still in their hands, and their machine tools were up to date, it wouldn't have been enough to stop a U.S. effort to drive them out of the eastern European countries and back to their own borders.

By 1945 that was no longer the case. By 1945 the Soviets had the most powerful army in the world, and likely the second most powerful air force. Their factories had been moved far east, and they had all of the Western rail engines to move their cargo with.

We easily could have lost more men than we lost against either Germany or Japan- the Soviets had superior armor, more artillery, and a decent air force. Our strengths- our naval power- was meaningless against the Soviets- our air power would likely have prevailed eventually- but until then our armor would have been chopped up by Soviet T34/85's and JS II's and JS III's.

Drivel.
LOL.....in other words you are totally ignorant of the facts, and are unable to refute anything I said.
 
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Theowl32

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See how right Patton was about the USSR?

FDR was a Stalin sock puppet who gleefully enslaved Eastern Europe under the thumb of his M\aster, Uncle Joe and sold out China to Mao

Ah the Right Wing Nut Jobs will never forgive FDR for leading the United States to victory in World War 2.

What victory? A Victory that left Eastern Europe in the hands of history's biggest mass murderer, "Uncle" Joe Stalin

Yep- like I said- Right Wing Nut Jobs will never forgive FDR or Truman for the United States victory in World War 2.

Or for the United States emerging as the most powerful nation in the world. Or for the United States emerging with the highest standard of living in the world.

Just pisses them off.
If it pisses them off, then why are the libs doing everything in the power to destroy what FDR had accomplished back then ? Their literally biting off the hands that have fed them over these years.

Hmmm lets see- are liberals trying to:
a) End Social Security- no the only ones calling for an end to Social Security are conservatives
b) End the GI Bill- no- no liberal is calling for the end of the modern GI bill.
c) End of Band Depositors insurance- no- no liberal is calling for the end of bank depositors insurance
d) End the United States being the most powerful country in the world- nope- again not happening.
e) Are liberals calling for the end of our strong relationship with Japan and Germany- which was the end result of Truman and FDR's policies- again no.

Meanwhile- as I point out- Conservatives are just pissed off because all of that happened under Democrat Presidents and Democrat Congresses.

Which is why they keep on trying to pile crap on Truman and Roosevelt.

Social security is a failed program and it did NOTHING to get the country out of the depression. You ignoring the fact that FDR allowed the German war machine to build up and him following the advice of Joseph Kennedy is not lost on me either.

Here are some companies that started during the great depression and the fact the free market was still the main function of our system. With out the free market, most if not all of these companies would not have been able to get off the ground let alone flourish.

Want me to show you how many each of these companies employed during that time?

In spite of the great depression which started in 1929 and lasted through 1940, many businesses were started during this period of our history. Many still exist and prosper to this day. Following is a partial list of those firms. If they can do it, others can succeed in today's economic climate:

1929
General Foods
Gruman
Macy's
Standard Brands
Sony Music
Walt Disney Pic


1930
Duracell
Fisher - Price
Hostess Brands
Westin Hotels

1931
Allstate
Bridgestone

Existing Businesses Started During the Great Depression

That is just name a few. Go ahead and look at the list. Give me the long list of companies that were started during the entire existence of the USSR.

BTW, that is from 1917-1991. LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Go ahead and give us the mass number of companies or even products that benefited humans. Get ready for a lot of stuff about rockets and space ships.



 

Owsi68

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I always thought it was about ending the war with Japan while sending a message to the USSR that basically said, "Don't fuck with America."

Japan
Statistics justified the use of an atom bomb over invasion with conventional weapons - more would die on both sides if we had invaded.vs nuked them.

USSR
They were posturing a lot and war with them was a possibility. I thought the hidden message we were sending by dropping a 2nd bomb was to essentially prove to the USSR that we had more than one and we're not afraid to use them.

There was some doubt as to whether or not America really had the bomb, that the bomb worked, that we had more than one bomb, and that we had the will to drop the bomb.

The attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki answered all of these questions.
 

Unkotare

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I always thought it was about ending the war with Japan while sending a message to the USSR that basically said, "Don't fuck with America."

Japan
Statistics justified the use of an atom bomb over invasion with conventional weapons - more would die on both sides if we had invaded.vs nuked them.

USSR
They were posturing a lot and war with them was a possibility. I thought the hidden message we were sending by dropping a 2nd bomb was to essentially prove to the USSR that we had more than one and we're not afraid to use them.

There was some doubt as to whether or not America really had the bomb, that the bomb worked, that we had more than one bomb, and that we had the will to drop the bomb.

The attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki answered all of these questions.


Try to keep up. All of these have been addressed already.
 

Owsi68

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I always thought it was about ending the war with Japan while sending a message to the USSR that basically said, "Don't fuck with America."

Japan
Statistics justified the use of an atom bomb over invasion with conventional weapons - more would die on both sides if we had invaded.vs nuked them.

USSR
They were posturing a lot and war with them was a possibility. I thought the hidden message we were sending by dropping a 2nd bomb was to essentially prove to the USSR that we had more than one and we're not afraid to use them.

There was some doubt as to whether or not America really had the bomb, that the bomb worked, that we had more than one bomb, and that we had the will to drop the bomb.

The attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki answered all of these questions.


Try to keep up. All of these have been addressed already.
Admittedly didn't bother to read other posts. I'll jump out and shower off.
 
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Theowl32

Theowl32

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I always thought it was about ending the war with Japan while sending a message to the USSR that basically said, "Don't fuck with America."

Japan
Statistics justified the use of an atom bomb over invasion with conventional weapons - more would die on both sides if we had invaded.vs nuked them.

USSR
They were posturing a lot and war with them was a possibility. I thought the hidden message we were sending by dropping a 2nd bomb was to essentially prove to the USSR that we had more than one and we're not afraid to use them.

There was some doubt as to whether or not America really had the bomb, that the bomb worked, that we had more than one bomb, and that we had the will to drop the bomb.

The attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki answered all of these questions.


Try to keep up. All of these have been addressed already.
Admittedly didn't bother to read other posts. I'll jump out and shower off.
The guy is obviously very sensitive about the subject for obvious reasons. Your post was just fine.
 
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beagle9

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I always thought it was about ending the war with Japan while sending a message to the USSR that basically said, "Don't fuck with America."

Japan
Statistics justified the use of an atom bomb over invasion with conventional weapons - more would die on both sides if we had invaded.vs nuked them.

USSR
They were posturing a lot and war with them was a possibility. I thought the hidden message we were sending by dropping a 2nd bomb was to essentially prove to the USSR that we had more than one and we're not afraid to use them.

There was some doubt as to whether or not America really had the bomb, that the bomb worked, that we had more than one bomb, and that we had the will to drop the bomb.

The attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki answered all of these questions.
. The main thing is that it got Japan aboard the Arizona to surrender, and that says it all.
 

regent

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Imagine the field day Republicans would have today if Truman had not used the bombs and we had gone ahead and carried out our Olympia and Coronet invasions with their casualties and loss of life. Then Republicans discovering Truman had the bomb but had decided not to use it.
 

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