The Second Amendment Was A Failure From The Start, And Should Have Been Repealed 200 Years Ago

[miketx]

What a cluster fuck the 2'nd Amendment has turned out to be. It's like the Right Wing want banned abortions to have

What a butchering ghoul you must be.

 

[BLUE COLLAR]

What faith element?

Wasn't there a reference to God?

I have no general objection to religion - but I do not appreciate a counterpoint made on merit of what God has supposedly said. There is a distinct difference between viewing something as common sense, natural right verses something offered as ordained by faith.

Perhaps, I pounced too quickly but at the same time I can produce multiple examples of my subscribing to self-defense, to include the right to bear arms.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

Only rightwing gun nuts and fools would call a serious opponent like the original poster — a war veteran — a “ghoul” and “lying commie.”

I’m used to the same treatment. I myself “carry” and have been legally vetted to do so. I also have a semi-automatic rifle and am an ex-member (left in the ‘70s) of the IRA. My views are similar to the older views of that organization, when it was still a pretty uncontroversial sport & hunting organization. Actually I even fought to extend the rights of responsible adults to carry and defend themselves against criminal violence in the 1980s in NYC.

It’s not helpful to the discussion, and disgusting, but I suppose we thoughtful “leftists” should be proud to be called “ghouls” and “lying commies” … by such ignoramouses.

 

[2aguy]

I have not researched either of your claims, and do not have an opinion on the first sentence. My general sense is that the second sentence is inaccurate though I know it to be a popular boast.

However, I can give an example of three armed men who did intervene to slow a massacre. I'm referring to the infamous My Lai IV Incident in which hundreds of Vietnamese Civilians were slaughtered by American Forces. Warrant Officer Hugh Thompson landed his helicopter between some of the soldiers and civilians ordering his flight crew to fire on the soldiers if they advanced on the civilians.

For thirty years Thompson was treated as a traitor before finally being decorated as the hero that he was.

What a fucked-up world in which we live.

The Texas church shooter stopped by the NRA instructor who used his personal AR-15 to shoot and drive off the mass shooter...

The Church shooter who was shot by the armed parishioner......with his .357 semi-automatic pistol

The woman in West Virginia, the same week as the Uvalde shooting, stopped the mass shooter who was armed with an AR-15...she just had a pistol...

You don't hear about the mass public shootings that are stopped by armed citizens....because they stop the mass public shooting...you don't have the body count that you have when the victims are unarmed........

Also.....in this country, anti-gun fanatics have made almost every public space, including schools, theaters, churches, malls, into gun free zones.....which means you limit the amount of times a good guy will have their legal gun with them to stop mass public shooters...

Also, mass public shooters do not target places that allow people to have guns.......so when you make a place a gun free zone, you invite the attack in the first place.

Then....

Deputies: Osceola pastor shot church janitor in self-defense

According to deputies, Parangan pulled out a handgun and fired multiple shots at Pastor Terry Howell, who took out his own weapon and fired back, striking Parangan.

Howell was not injured, but Parangan was taken to Osceola Regional Medical Center in critical condition.

Deputies said several church employees witnessed the incident and gave similar statements.
this Psychiatrist was not an off duty cop.....

Penn. psychiatric center shooting intended mass killing: DA

The Pennsylvania patient accused of killing his caseworker in a psychiatric center shooting carried dozens of bullets — and he would have likely continued shooting if a doctor didn’t fire back, officials said.

Richard Plotts, 49, is expected to be charged with murder for allegedly opening fire at Sister Marie Lenahan Wellness Center in Darby Thursday.

After he killed his caseworker, 53-year-old Theresa Hunt, and shot his psychiatrist, Lee Silverman, the wounded doctor fired back, stopping the attack, District Attorney Jack Whelan said in a Friday press conference.

Plotts had 39 more bullets on him. He intended a mass shooting, Whelan said.

 

[Vrenn]

Bbbbut bbbut it's all those people from somewhere else that are the problem. Chicago would be "mostly peaceful" if not for Indiana.

The people might be more peaceful in Indiana but the weapons that seem to find their way from Indiana to Chicago ain't so friendly.

 

[miketx]

Only rightwing gun nuts and fools would call a serious opponent like the original poster — a war veteran — a “ghoul” and “lying commie.”

I’m used to the same treatment. I myself “carry” and have been legally vetted to do so. I also have a semi-automatic rifle and am an ex-member (left in the ‘70s) of the IRA. My views are similar to the older views of that organization, when it was still a pretty uncontroversial sport & hunting organization. Actually I even fought to extend the rights of responsible adults to carry and defend themselves against criminal violence in the 1980s in NYC.

It’s not helpful to the discussion, and disgusting, but I suppose we thoughtful “leftists” should be proud to be called “ghouls” and “lying commies” … by such ignoramouses.

Commie ghouls are what they are. Come get us.

 

[miketx]

The people might be more peaceful in Indiana but the weapons that seem to find their way from Indiana to Chicago ain't so friendly.

This is what mental illness looks like.

 

[BLUE COLLAR]

Wrong....if the Founders knew that in a 6 year period, from 1939-1945 that you Europeans would slaughter 15 million innocent men, women and children...not collateral from combat actions, but people simply rounded up for murder......they would have written the 2nd Amendment as a mandate....that all homes have an arms room filled with rifles.......

The population of the 13 colonies was about 2.5 million....

You guys murdered 15 million in 6 years, and it only stopped because Americans with guns went over to Europe and stopped it....

We average about 10,000 gun murders a year......the majority of those murdered are not innocent human beings, but criminals engaged in the criminal lifestyle.......of the rest, the majority of those victims are family, and friends of criminals, hit in the crossfire of the criminals...

Over 83 years...from 1939 to 2022.....that would be 830,000 people murdered with guns....the majority of them criminals...

83 years, 830,000

You guys murdered 15 million....in 6 years....

The founders would have demanded guns in everyhome......

I find legitimacy in numerous of your remarks but suggest that the problem should not be reduced to lesser (or greater) evils. Whatever the Europeans killed has little to do with whether or not we need more restraint with firearms.

Btw, if we are going to go down that path, how many people died in misguided wars like Vietnam, in the rape of Central America, in the genocide perpetrated on Native Americans? If you want additional examples, look to China's horrible conduct in Tibet and East Turkistan. And of course, there are the numerous slaughters that have taken place in Africa. It's who and what we are as a species.

Hell, it's almost enough to make me buy a gun.

 

[miketx]

Whatever the Europeans killed has little to do with whether or not we need more restraint with firearms.

Lol, the whole point flew over your head.

 

[2aguy]

I find legitimacy in numerous of your remarks but suggest that the problem should not be reduced to lesser (or greater) evils. Whatever the Europeans killed has little to do with whether or not we need more restraint with firearms.

Btw, if we are going to go down that path, how many people died in misguided wars like Vietnam, in the rape of Central America, in the genocide perpetrated on Native Americans? If you want additional examples, look to China's horrible conduct in Tibet and East Turkistan. And of course, there are the numerous slaughters that have taken place in Africa. It's who and what we are as a species.

Hell, it's almost enough to make me buy a gun.

We don't need restraint on firearms...we need to control our criminal populations in the tiny areas of democrat party controlled cities where they are released, over and over again and where the police have stopped doing their jobs...because of attacks by the democrat party.

 

[BLUE COLLAR]

The Texas church shooter stopped by the NRA instructor who used his personal AR-15 to shoot and drive off the mass shooter...

The Church shooter who was shot by the armed parishioner......with his .357 semi-automatic pistol

The woman in West Virginia, the same week as the Uvalde shooting, stopped the mass shooter who was armed with an AR-15...she just had a pistol...

You don't hear about the mass public shootings that are stopped by armed citizens....because they stop the mass public shooting...you don't have the body count that you have when the victims are unarmed........

Also.....in this country, anti-gun fanatics have made almost every public space, including schools, theaters, churches, malls, into gun free zones.....which means you limit the amount of times a good guy will have their legal gun with them to stop mass public shooters...

Also, mass public shooters do not target places that allow people to have guns.......so when you make a place a gun free zone, you invite the attack in the first place.

Then....

Deputies: Osceola pastor shot church janitor in self-defense

According to deputies, Parangan pulled out a handgun and fired multiple shots at Pastor Terry Howell, who took out his own weapon and fired back, striking Parangan.

Howell was not injured, but Parangan was taken to Osceola Regional Medical Center in critical condition.

Deputies said several church employees witnessed the incident and gave similar statements.
this Psychiatrist was not an off duty cop.....

Penn. psychiatric center shooting intended mass killing: DA

The Pennsylvania patient accused of killing his caseworker in a psychiatric center shooting carried dozens of bullets — and he would have likely continued shooting if a doctor didn’t fire back, officials said.

Richard Plotts, 49, is expected to be charged with murder for allegedly opening fire at Sister Marie Lenahan Wellness Center in Darby Thursday.

After he killed his caseworker, 53-year-old Theresa Hunt, and shot his psychiatrist, Lee Silverman, the wounded doctor fired back, stopping the attack, District Attorney Jack Whelan said in a Friday press conference.

Plotts had 39 more bullets on him. He intended a mass shooting, Whelan said.

You worked hard at this post, but I must protest that a small sample, does not carry the day. The issue isn't whether some gun owners have stopped some violence. The issue is whether that undefined positive justifies the carnage arising from the millions and millions of guns circulating in this country.

Oh, and two more words: friendly fire.

 

[2aguy]

I find legitimacy in numerous of your remarks but suggest that the problem should not be reduced to lesser (or greater) evils. Whatever the Europeans killed has little to do with whether or not we need more restraint with firearms.

Btw, if we are going to go down that path, how many people died in misguided wars like Vietnam, in the rape of Central America, in the genocide perpetrated on Native Americans? If you want additional examples, look to China's horrible conduct in Tibet and East Turkistan. And of course, there are the numerous slaughters that have taken place in Africa. It's who and what we are as a species.

Hell, it's almost enough to make me buy a gun.

There was no genocide against the Indians......they were wiped out by diseases they had no exposure to before the Europeans came here......

Yep...China.....against an unarmed population they murdered 70 million......

Russia.....unarmed people....25 million murdered....

See the pattern here?

Unarmed populations are murdered by their governments in the millions...while criminal control keeps gun crime down during the periods when government isn't murdering their citizens.

 

[miketx]

You worked hard at this post, but I must protest that a small sample, does not carry the day. The issue isn't whether some gun owners have stopped some violence. The issue is whether that undefined positive justifies the carnage arising from the millions and millions of guns circulating in this country.

Oh, and two more words: friendly fire.

Come take them, ghoul.

 

[BLUE COLLAR]

Lol, the whole point flew over your head.

Allow me to respond in kind: No, it did not.

 

[2aguy]

You worked hard at this post, but I must protest that a small sample, does not carry the day. The issue isn't whether some gun owners have stopped some violence. The issue is whether that undefined positive justifies the carnage arising from the millions and millions of guns circulating in this country.

Oh, and two more words: friendly fire.

The vast majority of gun murder victims are not normal citizens.....they are criminals.......of the rest, the vast majority are those associated with criminals...friends and family.

The locations of these shootings are concentrated in tiny, multi-block areas of democrat party controlled cities...where the democrat party policies of releasing violent criminals and attacking the police, have allowed gun crime to increase....

You blame the guns....I show you it is the democrat party policies that cause the gun crime...

Can you explain the following....

You think guns increase gun crime........right?

Then explain this...

Over 27 years, from 1993 to the year 2015, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 19.4 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2019 (in 2020 that number is 21.52 million)...guess what happened...

New Concealed Carry Report For 2020: 19.48 Million Permit Holders, 820,000 More Than Last Year despite many states shutting down issuing permits because of the Coronavirus - Crime Prevention Research Center


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.


This means that access to guns does not create gun crime........

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Wasn't there a reference to God?

I have no general objection to religion - but I do not appreciate a counterpoint made on merit of what God has supposedly said. There is a distinct difference between viewing something as common sense, natural right verses something offered as ordained by faith.

Perhaps, I pounced too quickly but at the same time I can produce multiple examples of my subscribing to self-defense, to include the right to bear arms.

Wasn't there a reference to God?

I didn't see one.

but I do not appreciate a counterpoint made on merit of what God has supposedly said.

Not sure God ever said anything about guns. Let me know if you find a quote.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I also have a semi-automatic rifle and am an ex-member (left in the ‘70s) of the IRA.

NRA?

 

[BLUE COLLAR]

There was no genocide against the Indians......they were wiped out by diseases they had no exposure to before the Europeans came here......

Yep...China.....against an unarmed population they murdered 70 million......

Russia.....unarmed people....25 million murdered....

See the pattern here?

Unarmed populations are murdered by their governments in the millions...while criminal control keeps gun crime down during the periods when government isn't murdering their citizens.

The fallacy you employ in directing your argument at me is that I do not seek to disarm you. I seek only to interject an element of common sense to who, where and what manner of firearms are possessed.

As for Native Americans, many died as you state, others died because we wanted their land and its resources, because we waged war on them, killed them, and herded them onto reservations so that "manifest destiny" could be achieved.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The people might be more peaceful in Indiana but the weapons that seem to find their way from Indiana to Chicago ain't so friendly.

That's racist!!!

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The issue is whether that undefined positive justifies the carnage arising from the millions and millions of guns circulating in this country.

Millions of guns aren't causing carnage.