The SAVE America Act is dead

[22lcidw]

That would be sad.

History proves it. Man needs people to look after them.

 

[Robert W]

You can be opposed to it, but you can't ignore that the Constitution gives the feds the right to do so.

When the congress first formed, a simple majority could stop things or move things. Aaron Burr caused the filibuster to be legal.

Filibuster | Pros, Cons, Debate, Arguments, U.S. Senate, & Controversy | Britannica

Should the U.S. Senate keep the filibuster? Learn the pros and cons of the debate.

www.britannica.com

 

[Bitterhook]

History proves it. Man needs people to look after them.

I was under the impression that all of mankind desires freedom and likewise was raised to be independent in many things.

One also desires the company of others, at least until they marginalize their existence to a point they become dependent on what they truly cannot control, and that usually leads more to isolationism rather than simply dependence, or codependence at best.

But whatever, just my opinion and possibly warped understanding.

 

[TheGreatSatan]

I was under the impression that all of mankind desires freedom and likewise was raised to be independent in many things.

One also desires the company of others, at least until they marginalize the existence to a point, they are dependent on what they truly cannot control, and that usually leads more to isolationism rather than simply dependence, or codependence at best.

But whatever, just my opinion and possibly warped understanding.

Some people just want to shit on everything

 

[Bitterhook]

Some people just want to shit on everything

Reminds of the clip from the Batman movie when he was talking about how some just want to watch the world burn.

 

[JWBooth]

Democrats are not funny at all. First, they want the Feds totally in charge (see Obama) then they change their minds and don't want this at all. What did they want during Biden?

They are no different than their GOPer/Maga/Tea Party mirror image. If their guy holds the ring of power they are plum tickled to have a massively powerful government, involved in all facets of life. When it’s the other side with the power, the ring must be tossed into Mt. Doom and the balrog defanged.

 

[JWBooth]

History proves it. Man needs people to look after them.

The fairy tale that lies at the heart of every tyranny.

 

[Robert W]

They are no different than their GOPer/Maga/Tea Party mirror image. If their guy holds the ring of power they are plum tickled to have a massively powerful government, involved in all facets of life. When it’s the other side with the power, the ring must be tossed into Mt. Doom and the balrog defanged.

Trump is cancelling what seems like 100s of regulations. What democrat ever befriended America like Trump has?

 

[TheGreatSatan]

Trump is cancelling what seems like 100s of regulations. What democrat ever befriended America like Trump has?

All show.

If Americans fail to bring their traitors to justice while they have the chance, all other efforts to save America will be for nothing.

Nuremberg 2.0 or bust

 

[Robert W]

All show.

If Americans fail to bring their traitors to justice while they have the chance, all other efforts to save America will be for nothing.

Nuremberg 2.0 or bust

Just the kind of show America has craved since FDR.

 

[martybegan]

When the congress first formed, a simple majority could stop things or move things. Aaron Burr caused the filibuster to be legal.

Filibuster | Pros, Cons, Debate, Arguments, U.S. Senate, & Controversy | Britannica

Should the U.S. Senate keep the filibuster? Learn the pros and cons of the debate.

www.britannica.com

I do like the concept as a "brake" on certain legislation, but the "threat filibuster" takes it too far.

Make them debate like in the old days until they pass out, then a few weeks later, you get a straight majority vote.

 

[22lcidw]

I was under the impression that all of mankind desires freedom and likewise was raised to be independent in many things.

One also desires the company of others, at least until they marginalize their existence to a point they become dependent on what they truly cannot control, and that usually leads more to isolationism rather than simply dependence, or codependence at best.

But whatever, just my opinion and possibly warped understanding.

When the social programs ramped up there was literature on the negatives of it. People did not care as they history proves and they saw the programs as compassion. This includes Social Security. This made the federal government enormously powerful and holding a sword over the states and citizens to their whims. Also unfunded mandates were imposed for state, regions and cities to pay. These areas saw massive tax increases in all ways possible also. Increasing their power over people. Up until the 1980's social security tax increases, there were people who suggested to not take the checks when old enough as that empowers the government. Now I say that very few would do that. And today there is a healthy percentage of people who need it to survive even though social security was mean to augment other ways of wealth for each individual. I am not championing what people with other views have said. I am saying we need to see there can be consequences for everything government does.

 

[Bitterhook]

When the social programs ramped up there was literature on the negatives of it. People did not care as they history proves and they saw the programs as compassion. This includes Social Security. This made the federal government enormously powerful and holding a sword over the states and citizens to their whims. Also unfunded mandates were imposed for state, regions and cities to pay. These areas saw massive tax increases in all ways possible also. Increasing their power over people. Up until the 1980's social security tax increases, there were people who suggested to not take the checks when old enough as that empowers the government. Now I say that very few would do that. And today there is a healthy percentage of people who need it to survive even though social security was mean to augment other ways of wealth for each individual. I am not championing what people with other views have said. I am saying we need to see there can be consequences for everything government does.

Fortunately, we are not all forced to be like most people.

I understand the point you are trying to make but you are attempting to apply the 10 basic human behaviors further than they are required to apply as to consent by the human and suggesting that one human cannot escape the conditions of a greater number.

To an extent you are correct, and most directly in relationship to Maslow's Hierarchy of Human Needs, and the only problem you may find with that, is that you are attempting to suggest that no one can escape the lowest level of the hierarchy, and that is simply not true.

What you are talking about is the attempt to make everyone dependent on society by society's rules, when that is not necessary or actually a requirement for the individual at all. The individual may have to agree to comply with certain conditions, unless they are fortunate enough to find a piece of land they can stick a flag in it, defend, and become the Independent Sovereign Nation of Me, but that is as equally unnecessary as suggesting they are required to do what others are more complacent with.

You correctly targeted dependency, and the very real weaknesses, incapabilities, or even desires of the masses, but if one is uncomfortable with their conditions they can make a choice to alter them and apply what is necessary to do so.

.....

How does what we are talking about affect the topic and the SAVE Act, and let's look at that.

In reference to Foreign Nationals and immigration either legal or illegal, one thing still remains.
They are attempting to escape the conditions where they were and achieve more freedom and better results.
Therefore, they are obviously not bound from the ability to at least attempt to escape the condition they were in.

It may look different to people here, because they have the opportunity to think more freely, and they have simply found a place where they are willing to stop, become complacent, and accept their fate.

However, there is a more damaging aspect of what you suggest in regard to the Legislation in the topic.

Becoming complacent and accepting one's fate, is an issue of comfort and convenience.
However, compliance with the law was never meant to be, is not, and should never be a matter of convenience.
Any argument that the law should be adjusted to the most convenient option, is what will eventually bind one to everyone else's accepted level of surrender and comfort and most likely at the lowest level of Maslow's Hierarchy of Human Needs.

Also, the added desire to justify an objection based in an unworthy aspiration to achieve a minimal result, will often come in the form of creating imaginary victims that can be assumed to exist in a greater volume, by using what you used in suggesting that everyone (or whatever group may may want to reference) is incapable of achieving a desire, requirement, or better result with the idea comfort or convenience should even play a part in the decision, when it shouldn't.

But whatever, human nature also insists, some of us are going to have to live with the rest of these folks and simply limit our dependency in order to escape the same fate the masses have chosen (and tend to ***** about a lot).

 

[Natural Citizen]

Not necessarily force because governing can come from many sources.
You can bail you if you desire but I have a few minutes left to actually explain myself.

Yeah, it was just a courtesy on my part to say that I was. Nothing wrong with hanging around and explaining yourself. Likewise, I wasn't particularly invoking my previous thoughts on it for your individual benefit or to you specifically anyway, circling back to on your last thought there in your response.

Many people limit their understanding in attempts to nail things down when that can be beneficial in making a choice.
However, that is still a matter of how they choose to govern their activities, their course, and their understanding.

It can be more beneficial towards understanding when one unfolds the opportunities, investigates alternative avenues and relinquishes the desire to accept the simplest answer as the only answer in order to conform to their desires or simply defend their existing position.

Knowledge is one thing, but useless if one cannot do anything with it.
Understanding is what allows knowledge to become useful, and that is a matter of governing or management,

Management or governing in whatever form it exists is tied to anchors to achieve success in one of three conditions, and they are "Man versus Nature", "Man versus Man", and "Man versus Himself". It's always a competition but doesn't always require force.

I've shared thoughts around here many, many times with regard to proper man-to-man and government-to-man relationships. In terms of the self, I think that benchmarks on one's Individual primary foundation for moral code. And I've shared thoughts on that back in the day, too. Likely equally as many times. There wa s atime around here when we had folks who took interest in that sort of dialogue but i think thse days ate largely gone given the political football game we have going on these days. Am I interested in blowing the keystrokes again, just to say the same thing? I dunno. Also, you're naturally too gawldamn high strung and gung ho that you're constantly challenging yourself when it may likely be just really unnecessary in the scheme of things. And always from a management perspective.In my unsolicited view anyway. I'm passed that. But I get it.

In fact, the better one can do it without force, the better one may be at management and most likely the result of understanding.
Any inability to surpass what one's understanding has allowed them, is just failure in the lack of a desire to seek more and successfully achieve it.

Right. Which is actually why called bullshit on that other thought of yours.

Government and management can exist in many forms and is only limited as required by the capabilities of the person(s) attempting to establish it (whether through their own chosen shortcomings and desire to quit, or simply conditions they have yet to conquer).

Thanks for the opportunity to share ideas, and now back to our regularly scheduled programming (in every sense of the word).

Well as it is, we're being run by corporate and foreign lobbyists. Every time I hear orange man pop off about ''America is the hottest thing going right now'' I'm reminded of just how bought and soold the coutry really is. He reminds me of the sham wow guy when he talks like that. But, I donlt dsagree other than to say that mindset can only work fro mthe botom up. But you know that already.

 

[Bitterhook]

Yeah, it was just a courtesy on my part to say that I was. Nothing wrong with hanging around and explaining yourself. Likewise, I wasnt particularly invoking my previous thoughts on it for your individual benefit anyway.




I've shared thoughts around here many, many times with regard to proper man-to-man and government-to-man relationships. In terms of the self, I think that benchmarks on one's Individual primary foundation for moral code. And I've shared thoughts on that back in the day, too. Likely equally as many times. There wa s atime around here when we had folks who took interest in that sort of dialogue but i think thse days ate largely gone given the political football game we have going on these days. Am I interested in blowing the keystrokes again, just to say the same thing? I dunno. Also, you're naturally too gawldamn high strung and gung ho that you're constantly challenging yourself when it may likely be just really unnecessary in the scheme of things. And always from a management perspective. I'm passed that. But I get it.




Right. Which is actually why called bullshit on that other thought of yours.


Well as it is, we're being run by corporate and foreign lobbyists. Every time I hear orange man pop off about ''America is the hottest thing going right now'' I'm reminded of just how bought and soold the coutry really is. He reminds me of the sham wow guy when he talks like that. But, I donlt dsagree other than to say that mindset can only work fro mthe botom up. But you know that already.

Oh, I understand you, and that is not really a problem.

As to participation here at USMB and discussion is involved, I do not always set my expectations to the measures of others, or their willingness to share ideas. However, that is still my choice (freedom) and neither a requirement nor accusation towards their desired involvement. I can be "longwinded" and rather "exploratory" at times, and as such it would be unreasonable to set that as an expectation of others.

One comment above that you have addressed, that I can wrap up rather quickly in regard to my approach is the one concerning President Trump and what he says. The simple answer is, I figured out a long time ago, he is not talking to me.

Thanks again, have a good one, and understand that if someone wants to share ideas, they are welcome and it is possible this place we share might become more enlightening.

 

[Natural Citizen]

Let it burn. It's the only way the majority will ever learn.

This

Sucks that it will in all likelihood be this way. I guess. It's like anything else, really, if we're gonna be realists about the scope of erosion. But this is the nature of things when society collectively becomes blind to the reality of its own foolish works and places too much trust in economic hitmen men who don't really care about them or the country as much as they care about what they can can get for themselves by way of the offices they hold.

As an aside, and if we really pay attention, the more time passes, the more foreigners and general first and second generation imports we see seeking and attaining political office. That's something else. The notion of good old fashioned Americana itself is on the chopping block in that regard.

 

[JWBooth]

As an aside, and if we really pay attention, the more time passes, the more foreigners and general first and second generation imports we see seeking and attaining political office. That's something else. The notion of good old fashioned Americana itself is on the chopping block in that regard.

A feature, not a bug, of the Clinton/Bush/Obama/Trump/Bidet legacy.

 

[Bitterhook]

Sucks that it will in all likelihood be this way. I guess. It's like anything else, really, if we're gonna be realists about the scope of erosion. But this is the nature of things when society collectively becomes blind to the reality of its own foolish works and places too much trust in economic hitmen men who don't really care about them or the country as much as they care about what they can can get for themselves by way of the offices they hold.

As an aside, and if we really pay attention, the more time passes, the more foreigners and general first and second generation imports we see seeking and attaining political office. That's something else. The notion of good old fashioned Americana itself is on the chopping block in that regard.

It sucks that so many people cannot view what is real as anything other than impending doom and bound specifically to their interpretations. At any point where what one perceives is an inescapable doom, is merely the precise point at which one should consider how connected they need to be regard to what that doom requires.

It is simply an obstacle; it may still have effects on how one chooses to proceed, but it can best be identified as whether or not one will allow it to become a point of surrender, which in most cases will become a point of where personal responsibility (freedom) must override dependency.

However, it may be necessary for some to avoid my optimism at all costs.

The immigration issue you addressed, is merely an example of what our Founders were concerned about in regard to Foreign Influence, Such ideas are often disregarded in popular assessment, because people are prone to approach most issues with an "all or nothing" approach, and most often in connection with their desires, as well as their ability or inability to escape the consequences of failing (likewise, some of that is an opinion and is open for discussion).

 

[Natural Citizen]

It sucks that so many people cannot view what is real as anything other than impending doom and bound specifically to their interpretations. At any point where what one perceives an inescapable doom, is merely the precise point at which one should consider how connected they need to be regard to what that doom requires.

Well I already said before that if the shit hits the fan, I wouldn't want hardly any of these fuckers on here to be my neighbors. Nope. Huh uh...


It is simply an obstacle; it may still have effects on how one chooses to proceed, but it can best be identified as whether or not one will allow it to become a point of surrender, which in most cases will become a point of where personal responsibility (freedom) must override dependency.

However, it may be necessary for some to avoid my optimism at all costs.

The immigration issue you addressed, is merely an example of what our Founders were concerned about in regard to Foreign Influence, Such ideas are often disregarded in popular assessment, because people are prone to approach most issues with an "all or nothing" approach, and most often in connection with their desires, as well as their ability or inability to escape the consequences of failing (likewise, some of that is an opinion and is open for discussion).

There's this game play sometimes, it's just an outdated freebie that I find stimulating to play for like an hour or so.

Anyway, it always shows quotes before you start/continue a game. There's a lot of really good qotes, too, but I took a screenshot of one of em the other day because I saw it and I thought to myself, that'll come in handy some time.

Reminded of it with your thought there...

 

[Bitterhook]

There's this game play sometimes, it's just an outdated freebie that I find stimulating to play for like an hour or so.

Anyway, it always shows quotes before you start/continue a game. There's a lot of really good qotes, too, but I took a screenshot of one of em the other day because I saw it and I thought to myself, that'll come in handy some time.

Reminded of it with your thought there...

View attachment 1218567

Very good quote, and very true.

If one's passion does not allow them to properly handle the obstacles before them, then they will simply become a victim of their passion and failure.

Desire can never substitute as the only thing necessary to address when dealing with reality.
One should avoid an "all or nothing" approach.