The Royal Society for the Protection of Birds plans Wind turbine

[flacaltenn]

Star says we only need to shut them down for bats when wind speeds are low.. OK..

But for studies with raptors, the opposite maybe true...

JSTOR: An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie


During our study, when winds were strong and from the south-southwest, kiting behavior occurred on south-southwestern facing slopes with inclines of greater than 20% and peak elevations greater than adjacent slopes. Accordingly, mitigation measures to decrease red-tailed hawk fatalities should be directed specifically to these areas and others fitting this general model. Wind farm managers can power down turbines at the top of these hazardous slopes when they pose the greatest danger-when winds are strong and facing perpendicularly to the slope.

Hey Hey Hey -- we're getting prescription a here. Just shut them down !!! LOL

BTW: Raptor vision systems have extremely narrow BINOCULAR vision. Meaning that their depth perception really sucks for anything outside of 15deg or so.... So painting and vision avoidance aren't really suspected to solve anything.. It's more like they can't judge distance to the rotating narrow blades no matter how fast or slow they go...

 

[westwall]

Wind turbines are to raptors what a flame is to a moth. The flicker rate of the blades mesmerise the birds and draws them in to the kill. No bird is smart enough to avoid the blade, some are lucky, most aren't. If your goal is to drive raptors, buzzards and vulturs to extinction your precious little wind farms will do just that.

They won't produce enough usable power however, ever.

Please present supporting evidence for your raptor "flicker rate" facination assertions.

@Westwall. See that just goes to show again how ignorant these wannabee "scientists" are. You and I have a pilot`s license he doesn`t. The term "flicker vertigo" would be a complete unknown to someone who would rather live in the stone or the "OldRocks" age:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptQHY_5Agls"]Flicker Vertigo - YouTube[/ame]
Every pilot knows about it and is cautioned how severe the effects can be.
It affects birds, humans and any animal that has eyes.
Flicker vertigo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Flicker vertigo, sometimes called the Bucha effect, is "an imbalance in brain-cell activity caused by exposure to low-frequency flickering (or flashing) of a relatively bright light."[1] It is a disorientation-, vertigo-, and nausea-inducing effect of a strobe light flashing at 1 Hz to 20 Hz, approximately the frequency of human brainwaves.[2][3] The effects are similar to seizures caused by epilepsy (in particular photosensitive epilepsy), but are not restricted to people with histories of epilepsy.
This phenomenon has been observed during helicopter flight; a Dr. Bucha identified the phenomenon in the 1950s when called upon to investigate a series of similar and unexplained helicopter crashes. Flicker vertigo in a helicopter occurs when the pilot or front passenger looks up through the blades of the main rotor as it turns in the sun causing the light to strobe. The strobe light effect causes persons who are vulnerable to flicker vertigo to become disoriented, lose control of the aircraft or have a seizure. A similar situation can occur in fixed wing flight whenever flickering light conditions exist. An example would be looking through a slowly spinning propeller while the airplane is landing facing the sun.[4]

And of course as with anything else that is harmful:

Flicker vertigo has been considered as a principle for various forms of non-lethal weapon.[6] A related crowd-control device was invented by Charles Bovill, which "employed a combination of ultra-sonic waves and strobe lights to induce acute discomfort, sickness, disorientation and sometimes epilepsy."[7]

Even if that wasn`t so the main problem both with wind turbines and solar if You want to run them as a power grid and not just an interesting hobby is that:

And it came to that because the greeny bird brains have no clue what a power grid is.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2H38UpdQhM&list=UUvj7dbOY14kt_MFIR1Y1iwA&index=9&feature=plcp"]How Climate Science destroyed Germany.wmv - YouTube[/ame]

Power on demand and generating power when it`s possible are 2 entirely different concepts.

Yes PB, I know all that but I am tired of dealing with clowns like trakar and olfraud. They are anti science religious zealots. No amount of logic will penetrate their tiny little closed minds so I no longer bother. If they present some BS study basde on their precious computer models I willquite happily demolish it, but I will no longer respond to their juvenile requests that are presented merely to waste my time. Screw them. I am not here for their entertainment...I'm here for mine!

 

[westwall]

Star says we only need to shut them down for bats when wind speeds are low.. OK..

But for studies with raptors, the opposite maybe true...

JSTOR: An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie


During our study, when winds were strong and from the south-southwest, kiting behavior occurred on south-southwestern facing slopes with inclines of greater than 20% and peak elevations greater than adjacent slopes. Accordingly, mitigation measures to decrease red-tailed hawk fatalities should be directed specifically to these areas and others fitting this general model. Wind farm managers can power down turbines at the top of these hazardous slopes when they pose the greatest danger-when winds are strong and facing perpendicularly to the slope.

Hey Hey Hey -- we're getting prescription a here. Just shut them down !!! LOL

BTW: Raptor vision systems have extremely narrow BINOCULAR vision. Meaning that their depth perception really sucks for anything outside of 15deg or so.... So painting and vision avoidance aren't really suspected to solve anything.. It's more like they can't judge distance to the rotating narrow blades no matter how fast or slow they go...

Yes, trakar et al have an extraordinarily egocentric view of the world. They assume that because they are so smart than whatever affects them must affect every other creature the same. The pompous nature of that belief system is amazing to me.

Brings new meaning the term "ugly American".

 

[skookerasbil]

@Westwall. See that just goes to show again how ignorant these wannabee "scientists" are. You and I have a pilot`s license he doesn`t. The term "flicker vertigo" would be a complete unknown to someone who would rather live in the stone or the "OldRocks" age:

You presume too much. I've maintained a pilot's license for more than a half century now. From your source:

Flicker vertigo, sometimes called the Bucha effect, is "an imbalance in brain-cell activity caused by exposure to low-frequency flickering (or flashing) of a relatively bright light."[1] It is a disorientation-, vertigo-, and nausea-inducing effect of a strobe light flashing at 1 Hz to 20 Hz, approximately the frequency of human brainwaves.[2][3] The effects are similar to seizures caused by epilepsy (in particular photosensitive epilepsy), but are not restricted to people with histories of epilepsy.

care to hazard a guess as to the turbine rotation rate of commercial power turbines? typically max out is 3-5 rpm. This means that a three blade rotor,...assuming that each blade is identical and presents the same angled face to the target, is going to repeat incidence between 9 and 15 times a minute. This means flashes once every 4-7 seconds. Assuming you realize the difference between 1-20 times per second and once every 4-7 seconds, what evidence can you point to that supports that commercial power wind turbines generate flicker-rate fascination in raptors.

For you to compare the vision system of a bird of prey to human vision and ASSUME that all effects would be the same is just not very astute.

The far left navigate in a world of overgeneralization. Its a thinking **** up that leads to this idea that there is a solution to every problem. Its always been somewhat fascinating to me. Where many of us automatically think in terms of necessary tradeoffs before the implementation of any idea, everything is a zero sum game for those on the far left. Lucky for the rest of us, the **** up is limited to far less than 20% of the population or who knows what the **** our society would look like today. Trakars thinking is beyond gone when compared to the thinking of the average person.........and these types think everybody else is dimwitted. But to most of us, tradeoff considerations and results are worth analyzing........but not to the far left guy.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Wonder how many birds that whirling chunk of shit will end up killing.

“We know that with the right design and location wind turbines have little or no impact on wildlife."

 

[flacaltenn]

Its important to look at WHO is building a token wind turbine in the OP and WHY they are doing this in conflict with their stated interests..

The Royal Society for the Protection of Birds » Fake Charities

We define a Fake Charity as any organisation registered as a UK charity that derives more than 10% of its income—and/or more than £1 million—from the government, while also lobbying the government. That lobbying can take the form of calling for new policies, changes to the law or increases in (their own) funding.

The RSPB is one of Britain’s oldest and most respected charities. It used to exist on voluntary donations. Not any more. The RSPB formed Stop Climate Chaos in September 2006 and were amongst the first environmental groups to call for a 80% reduction in UK carbon emissions by 2050.

They discovered that birds do not sell as well as Big Wind..

In fact -- they have a constant conflict and mixed message in their org as a result of this conflict of interest..

Ruling on wind farm says the countryside is as important as climate change targets - Telegraph

The Coalition is obliged to boost the amount of energy from renewables as part of climate change targets imposed by Europe.

This will mean more than doubling the amount of energy from onshore wind over the next ten years and building at least another 5,000 wind turbines onshore.

Sea Land and Power Ltd argued that the wind farm near Gt Yarmouth would help to meet these targets.

However Mrs Justice Laing said the target cannot take precedence over natural beauty. In a judgment handed down at the Administrative Court she backed both the local councils and conservation groups in rejecting the plans.

Ruling on wind farm says the countryside is as important as climate change targets
The Coalition's renewable energy targets do not outweigh value of the beauty of the English countryside, a High Court judge said yesterday as she rejected planning permission for a wind farm.

The Royal Society for the Protection of Birds (RSPB) expressed concerns about the potential impact of the wind turbines on important local populations of pink footed geese and marsh harriers, although the charity later withdrew its objections.

Just like the birds they USED to protect -- they are now toothless in terms of even weighing in on SITING OBJECTIONS (reading this OOPYDOO???) or terms of operation.. In fact -- they love the money and attention from the renewables lobby and GOVT much better than then old funding regime..

In 2010 RSPB reported received a staggering £22.6 million in public money, including:

Explanation•Department for Environment, Food & Rural Affairs: £4.5 million
•Landfill Communities Fund: £2.3 million
•European Union: £2.1 million
•National Lottery Funds £1.4 million
•Scottish Natural Heritage: £1.4 million
•Environment Agency: £1.2 million
•Natural England: £1.1 million
•Scottish Executive: £1 million
•Department for International Development: £308,000
•Department of Environment, Northern Ireland: £260,000
•Countryside Council for Wales: £252,000
•Forestry Commission: £180,000
•National Assembly for Wales: £179,000
•East Midlands Development Agency: £111,000
•South East England Development Agency: £90,000
•Department of Agriculture & Rural Development, NI: £26,000
•Local councils & other £6.2 million

A wildlife conservation taking monies from Development Groups and building a token Windmill? Gimme a break - Whores.

 

[Trakar]

@Westwall. See that just goes to show again how ignorant these wannabee "scientists" are. You and I have a pilot`s license he doesn`t. The term "flicker vertigo" would be a complete unknown to someone who would rather live in the stone or the "OldRocks" age:

You presume too much. I've maintained a pilot's license for more than a half century now. From your source:

Flicker vertigo, sometimes called the Bucha effect, is "an imbalance in brain-cell activity caused by exposure to low-frequency flickering (or flashing) of a relatively bright light."[1] It is a disorientation-, vertigo-, and nausea-inducing effect of a strobe light flashing at 1 Hz to 20 Hz, approximately the frequency of human brainwaves.[2][3] The effects are similar to seizures caused by epilepsy (in particular photosensitive epilepsy), but are not restricted to people with histories of epilepsy.

care to hazard a guess as to the turbine rotation rate of commercial power turbines? typically max out is 3-5 rpm. This means that a three blade rotor,...assuming that each blade is identical and presents the same angled face to the target, is going to repeat incidence between 9 and 15 times a minute. This means flashes once every 4-7 seconds. Assuming you realize the difference between 1-20 times per second and once every 4-7 seconds, what evidence can you point to that supports that commercial power wind turbines generate flicker-rate fascination in raptors.

For you to compare the vision system of a bird of prey to human vision and ASSUME that all effects would be the same is just not very astute.

I assumed nothing, I asked for those who are asserting such an effect to present the evidence that indicates the existence of that effect in raptors due to commercial wind turbine power farms. So far, no supportive evidence has been presented. The only evidence that has been presented seems to be trying to compare the the effects of the sun shining through much higher rotation helicopter rotor blades on human vision/CNS systems with sunlight being reflected off of these much slower rotation turbine blades on raptor vision/CNS systems. There are a lot of, thus far, unsupported assumptions being made, but so far, I'm not the one making them. Present the compelling evidence which supports the "flicker-rate" fascination of raptors by commercial wind farm turbines, then we can evaluate the claim, assess the impact, reasonably explore amelioration (if necessary) and move on to other issues of concern.

 

[Trakar]

Yes, trakar et al have an extraordinarily egocentric view of the world. They assume that because they are so smart than whatever affects them must affect every other creature the same. The pompous nature of that belief system is amazing to me.

Quit looking in the mirror while ranting about how terrible everything you see looks and provide supporting evidence, ...or don't, the only person a failure to support impacts is the person making the assertion so I could care less whether or not you possess the integrity or competence to actually hold well-reasoned and evidenced discussions.

 

[polarbear]

Wonder how many birds that whirling chunk of shit will end up killing.

“We know that with the right design and location wind turbines have little or no impact on wildlife."

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2oijXobDCQ]CO2 or Blackhole Sun You decide - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Trakar]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tciQts-8Cxo]Bad, Badder, BEST - YouTube[/ame]

 

[flacaltenn]

THIS is the NEW Royal Society for the Protection of Birds.. Built on GW hype and hysteria and dedicated to wind turbines at all costs --- even to the birds...

Wildlife is already feeling the heat from climate change. The temperature in the North Sea has risen by 1°C in the past 25 years. This has led to breeding failures for birds such as kittiwakes and guillemots up and down the UK's coast. Meanwhile, bitterns are losing their habitats to sea-level rise.

Read the page !!! They are over the cliff fully compromised by idealogues.. No wonder they built a token windmill.. Good for their new financial strategy...

 

[westwall]

Yes, trakar et al have an extraordinarily egocentric view of the world. They assume that because they are so smart than whatever affects them must affect every other creature the same. The pompous nature of that belief system is amazing to me.

Quit looking in the mirror while ranting about how terrible everything you see looks and provide supporting evidence, ...or don't, the only person a failure to support impacts is the person making the assertion so I could care less whether or not you possess the integrity or competence to actually hold well-reasoned and evidenced discussions.

I allready know your level of integrity, well lack thereof, so I choose to no longer deal with you in a collegial way.

 

[Trakar]

Yes, trakar et al have an extraordinarily egocentric view of the world. They assume that because they are so smart than whatever affects them must affect every other creature the same. The pompous nature of that belief system is amazing to me.

Quit looking in the mirror while ranting about how terrible everything you see looks and provide supporting evidence, ...or don't, the only person a failure to support impacts is the person making the assertion so I could care less whether or not you possess the integrity or competence to actually hold well-reasoned and evidenced discussions.

I allready know your level of integrity, well lack thereof, so I choose to no longer deal with you in a collegial way.

"collegial," ROFLOL!

I don't expect respect or reasoned discussion from you, I merely rattle your cage every now and again to get you to squawk and display that rube idiocy that invariably rolls from your fingertips,...adds a nice contrast to my postings.

Keep up the good work!

 

[westwall]

Quit looking in the mirror while ranting about how terrible everything you see looks and provide supporting evidence, ...or don't, the only person a failure to support impacts is the person making the assertion so I could care less whether or not you possess the integrity or competence to actually hold well-reasoned and evidenced discussions.

I allready know your level of integrity, well lack thereof, so I choose to no longer deal with you in a collegial way.

"collegial," ROFLOL!

I don't expect respect or reasoned discussion from you, I merely rattle your cage every now and again to get you to squawk and display that rube idiocy that invariably rolls from your fingertips,...adds a nice contrast to my postings.

Keep up the good work!

Sure junior, sure. Your postings are as worthless as are you. You posted an opinion piece from the Financial Times. I posted a peer reviewed study published in Science to refute it. I agree, the contrast between your opinion and my SCIENCE is astounding.

 

[Trakar]

I allready know your level of integrity, well lack thereof, so I choose to no longer deal with you in a collegial way.

"collegial," ROFLOL!

I don't expect respect or reasoned discussion from you, I merely rattle your cage every now and again to get you to squawk and display that rube idiocy that invariably rolls from your fingertips,...adds a nice contrast to my postings.

Keep up the good work!

Sure junior, sure. Your postings are as worthless as are you. You posted an opinion piece from the Financial Times. I posted a peer reviewed study published in Science to refute it. I agree, the contrast between your opinion and my SCIENCE is astounding.

po l'il ting up past his bedtime and getting cranky, breaking out in drooled caps and spastic hallucinations. I see no paper (especially one published in "Science" that refutes anything I, or the OP article (which btw was a press release from the RSPB) stated.

 

[windturbinestar]

very helpful information

 

[mamooth]

Facinating, how the denialists always manage to get every bit of science totally wrong, on every topic imaginable. They're like rennaisance men of incompetence.

But then, that's what happens when your philosophy is based on auto-hating everything that the intelligent people do.

 

[westwall]

Facinating, how the denialists always manage to get every bit of science totally wrong, on every topic imaginable. They're like rennaisance men of incompetence.

But then, that's what happens when your philosophy is based on auto-hating everything that the intelligent people do.

Wow, condescending must be your middle name. So sad for you it's YOU who get it wrong most of the time. We just have enough class to not rub your nose in it...like we would a dumb dog that just pooped on the rug....like you guys do all the time.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Wonder how many birds that whirling chunk of shit will end up killing.

They'er too stupid to see they are going to be hurting their hobbies.