The Root Of All Our Problems

[Centinel]

Such laws as copyright and patent are violations of property rights. They prevent people from using their own property as they wish.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

From what I remember, property rights in terms of land started during the late Middle Ages.

Also, intellectual property control involved extending the period covered, which meant a combination of corporate lobbying and government regulation.

Property rights (land) started long before that, perhaps not always codified, but land ownership was clearly understood. Lobbying and regulation have muddled property rights in general, but in the case of IP even more so.

When it comes to property rights you can look to Ronald Coase's The problem of Social Cost:

http://www.econ.ucsb.edu/~tedb/Courses/UCSBpf/readings/coase.pdf

various summaries exist that might make understanding Coase's position easier.

Or you can look to Hans-Hermann Hoppe's The Economics and Ethics of Private Property:

Books Mises Institute

Hoppe was a protege of Murray Rothbard and expanded on his ideas on property rights. You can find summaries of these works as well.

Property rights is a complicated subject so if you are interested in understanding it, you have to put in the work, and look at it from different perspectives such as Coase and Hoppe/Rothbard. This a good starting point of the subject.

Property rights involve legal systems and titles, and that started only during the late Middle Ages. Its origins involve enclosures.

funny I thought ancient Greece came before the middle ages???



Families governed their own affairs. Even the marking of property boundaries was a religious ceremony. Thus the men of the early ages . . . arrived . . . by virtue of their belief, at the conception of the right of property; this right from which all civilization springs, since by it man improves the soil, and becomes improved himself.[3]

Though this religion made it difficult to transfer property between families, it provided powerful barriers to the expansion of government. Every transfer of property needed to be authorized by religion. If a man could not, or could only with difficulty, dispose of land, for a still stronger reason he could not be deprived of it against his will. The appropriation of land for public utility was unknown among the ancients. Confiscation was resorted to only in case of condemnation to exile.[4] Fustel de Coulanges also notes that this strict protection of property rights lasted until the later democratic age of Greek cities.

I'm referring to legal ownership, not one based on religious authority:

Private property - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

In relation to:

Enclosure - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

dear, Greece and Rome had private property rights long before the Middle Ages. Sorry

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Such laws as copyright and patent are violations of property rights. They prevent people from using their own property as they wish.

dear if you build a house or write a book it becomes your property. That way you are encouraged to do it rather than live and die outside in fear that someone would steal your house if you bothered to build it.

 

[Centinel]

Such laws as copyright and patent are violations of property rights. They prevent people from using their own property as they wish.

dear if you build a house or write a book it becomes your property. That way you are encouraged to do it rather than live and die outside in fear that someone would steal your house if you bothered to build it.

Yes, obviously. If you buy a bunch of building materials and assemble them into a house, they are still yours. Also, if you purchase paper and ink and you write with the ink on the paper the resulting document is yours.

My point though is that copyright and patent prevent people from using their own paper and their own ink to produce documents. This is clearly a violation of property rights.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

copyright and patent prevent people from using their own paper and their own ink to produce documents..

how?????????????????

 

[Centinel]

copyright and patent prevent people from using their own paper and their own ink to produce documents..

how?????????????????

If one uses his own paper and ink to write something that is copyrighted he will be punished if he sells his document to someone else.

If one uses his own computer, modem, and hard disk to encode and save an MP3 file, he will be punished.

These are violations of property rights. People ought to be able to do what they wish with their own property.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

If one uses his own paper and ink to write something that is copyrighted he will be punished if he sells his document to someone else.

that would make your paper more important than someone's copyrighted poem on your paper. Society figures the poem is far more important becuase it is far more important.

 

[Centinel]

If one uses his own paper and ink to write something that is copyrighted he will be punished if he sells his document to someone else.

that would make your paper more important than someone's copyrighted poem on your paper. Society figures the poem is far more important becuase it is far more important.

So, as I said, copyright law violates property rights. It prevents one from using his own paper and ink to write what he wishes.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

If one uses his own paper and ink to write something that is copyrighted he will be punished if he sells his document to someone else.

that would make your paper more important than someone's copyrighted poem on your paper. Society figures the poem is far more important becuase it is far more important.

So, as I said, copyright law violates property rights. It prevents one from using his own paper and ink to write what he wishes.

property rights are not absolute and never were. All rights conflict. Freedom of speech has many restrictions for example but we still say we have freedom of speech..

 

[Centinel]

If one uses his own paper and ink to write something that is copyrighted he will be punished if he sells his document to someone else.

that would make your paper more important than someone's copyrighted poem on your paper. Society figures the poem is far more important becuase it is far more important.

So, as I said, copyright law violates property rights. It prevents one from using his own paper and ink to write what he wishes.

property rights are not absolute and never were. All rights conflict. Freedom of speech has many restrictions for example but we still say we have freedom of speech..

The right of a person writing with his own ink on his own paper doesn't conflict with anyone else's property rights.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

The right of a person writing with his own ink on his own paper doesn't conflict with anyone else's property rights.

you mean unless he's copying someone else's poem?

 

[Centinel]

The right of a person writing with his own ink on his own paper doesn't conflict with anyone else's property rights.

you mean unless he's copying someone else's poem?

No, I don't mean that. Even copying someone else's poem doesn't violate anyone's person or property. If someone writes down a poem he heard from you, that doesn't violate your person or property in any way.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Even copying someone else's poem doesn't violate anyone's person or property.

so why not tell us how that is possible??

 

[Centinel]

Even copying someone else's poem doesn't violate anyone's person or property.

so why not tell us how that is possible??

Because it doesn't affect anyone's person or property in any way.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Even copying someone else's poem doesn't violate anyone's person or property.

so why not tell us how that is possible??

Because it doesn't affect anyone's person or property in any way.

how does the poet control his poem if everone can copy it and sell it.

 

[Care4all]

I have info from a very good source which says that:

For the love of money, is the root of all evil....

Timothy 6:10

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

I have info from a very good source which says that:

The love of money, is the root of all evil.

Timothy 6:10

dear, without money we could not buy food and we would all die so of course we love money just as we love llife.

 

[Centinel]

Even copying someone else's poem doesn't violate anyone's person or property.

so why not tell us how that is possible??

Because it doesn't affect anyone's person or property in any way.

how does the poet control his poem if everone can copy it and sell it.

I'm not sure what you mean by "control his poem". His poem is an idea. Ideas can't be controlled. They exist in people's brains.

I suppose the only way that a poet could truly "control his poem" would be to keep it locked inside his brain and not communicate it to anyone.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

. They exist in people's brains.

until they are written down!!!!

 

[Centinel]

. They exist in people's brains.

until they are written down!!!!

Even after they are written down, ideas still only exist in people's brains. You can't control people's brains. Thus the poet can't control his poem.