The Roosevelt Myths vs. The Facts

[gipper]

And he said this, too...

"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

Seems he lied a lot.....like you.

Did a damned good job didn't he?

Such a great job that he was elected in landslides four straight times

So in your Leftnutter mind, a POTUS should only be evaluated on their election results. Then you must think Reagan and Nixon GREAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATTTTTTTTTT!!!!

 

[Camp]

The facts and the truth of FDRs wretched performance speak for themselves. That's why we calmly keep presenting them to you.

The Progressives reflexive defense is to say, "but historians say he's great" as if that supercedes the facts.

We'll be waiting here when you finally wake up

You are not presenting facts. You are presenting the anti-New Deal myths that are opinions or outright misinterpretations and even lies. Your opinions are not facts and you provide no objective academic links to support your opinions. You mention "FDR's wretched performance" but offer no documentation to substantiate your opinion. What you available are political agenda driven commentaries and opinion, not objective academic works. If you do not know what that means, refer to the links I have provided to debunk PoliticalChics claims. Those are academic and objective links. The one about the Dust Bowl Storms and era may be argued as slanted to favor FDR, but there are endless links available about the Dust Bowl. I picked one because it had a short video and good photo's for folks who might not have knowledge about the Dust Bowl.
Note that PoliticalChic has not academically challenged my debunking of her nonsense claim of providing facts. And who posted that stupid comment and lie that the generation of the roaring twenties was the "Greatest Generation"? That is an ongoing lie to deflect from the fact that what is known as the "Greatest Generation" is the era of the FDR time frame. The Greatest Generation chose FDR as it's leader.

1. "You mention "FDR's wretched performance" but offer no documentation to substantiate your opinion."
A lie.
Documentation throughout the thread.


2. "Note that PoliticalChic has not academically challenged my debunking of her nonsense claim of providing facts."
More 'is not, is nooottttttt!'

3. As usual, you have proven an unmitigated failure.
Much like Roosevelt.

You do not offer documentation to confirm your opinions as facts, rather you offer documentation to explain how you derived your opinion. That is not the same as providing actual data to prove a point.
You still have not challenged the points I raised to debunk your nonsense. I challenged you on your first two points of the OP. All you have done is your usual deflecting and flooding the thread with more nonsense and distorted out of context quotes.

 

[Claudette]

...says the President who averaged 20% unemployment for his entire first 2 terms

Thanks to the GOP do nothing regime...

Taking a hand a fiction writing?

Dems owned Congress during the Jihad on Free Enterprise and the Constitution know as the "FDR Presidency"

Yup. The Dems controlled the whole Govt. from the POTUS through Congress.

Guess Moonbat should read a little history.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

My point?

At your advanced age, one would imagine that you recognize this truth:

Reality is defined by actions, not by words.


Prior to the 'Great Depression,' this nation had over thirty economic downturns.
They lasted 1-2 years.

Roosevelt, by design, in order to undermine our nation's foundings, extended the depression by a factor of four or five times....along with the agony inflicted on the people.



So....quoting words merely is simply an exercise in what you always do.....lie.

The Great Depression was already three years old when FDR took office, so your 1-2 years was already past

FDRs policies were directed at easing suffering, putting people back to work and taking care of those who needed it. He really didn't care if stock portfolios returned as quickly as possible

Like FDR said.....People don't eat in the long run

"FDRs policies were directed at easing suffering, putting people back to work..."

In that case, he was a horrible failure.


1. Here is an interesting visual: imagine a triple line of the unemployed, three across, consisting of those unemployed under Hoover, in 1931. The line would have gonefrom Los Angeles, across the country, to the border of Maine.

What effect did Roosevelt have on the line?

Well, eight years later, in 1939, the length of the line would have gone further, from the Maine border, south to Boston, then on to New York City, then to Philadelphia, on to Washington, D.C.- and finally, into Virginia.
Folsom, "New Deal or Raw Deal"


Think Folsom was wrong?

Check it out at the US Bureau of the Census, 'Historical Statistics of the United States: Colonial Times to 1970, I-126 andUnemployment Statistics during the Great Depression



2. " “We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work. And I have just one interest, and if I am wrong…somebody else can have my job. I want to see this country prosperous. I want to see people get a job. I want to see people get enough to eat. We have never made good on our promises…I say after eight years of this administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started…And an enormous debt to boot!”
Morgenthau Diary, May 9, 1939, Franklin Roosevelt Presidential Library


3. March 4, 1933, in his first Inaugural Address, FDR said “Our greatest primary task is to put people to work.”

This meant that the New Deal was a wretched, ill-conceived failure.

A picture is worth a thousand Political Chic cut and pastes

Yes, FDR really did average 20% Unemployment during his first two terms. See how US finally dips in 1940? Had WWII not started it probably would have gone on as long as he was in office

I don't understand where Conservatives get this "average unemployment" statistic to trot out every time they give an incoming Democrat double digit unemployment

I remember Gomez Adams from the "Adams Family" once bragging how he took a struggling company and plunged it into bankruptcy. He could have been FDR's economic advisor

 

[PoliticalChic]

Let's have Schlesinger interpret it for you:

1. Arthur Schlesinger, Jr., liberal New Deal historian wrote in The National Experience, in 1963, “Though the policies of the Hundred Days had ended despair, they had not produce recovery…” He also wrote honestly about the devastating crash of 1937- in the midst of the “second New Deal” and Roosevelt’s second term. “The collapse in the months after September 1937 was actually more severe than it had been in the first nine months of the depression: national income fell 13 %, payrolls 35 %, durable goods production 50 %, profits 78% .

No question FDR bungled the 1937 crash. He was believing his numbers and thought he had the depression licked. He gave in to the right and slashed spending to balance the budget (sounds like Republicans today doesn't it?). The result was a hike in unemployment by 9%

FDR learned not to listen to Republicans again

" He gave in to the right..."

OMG....you're reduced to this obvious lie?????

He ran on class warfare....he hated and attacked the right, the business community at every opportunity.



"Roosevelt did indeed make a difference, though probably not the sort of difference for which the country had hoped.He started off on the wrong foot when, in his inaugural address, he blamed the Depression on “unscrupulous money changers.”He said nothing about the role of the Fed’s mismanagement and little about the follies of Congress that had contributed to the problem.As a result of his efforts, the economy would linger in depression for the rest of the decade."
Great Myths of the Great Depression | Lawrence W. Reed

So you are saying that Henry Ford was a righty??? Oh my...

How about you try to stick to what I actually say.

Roosevelt hated the successful because he never was one in business.
He attacked the right, the business community and engaged in class warfare.
Facts.

I believe that FDR was rich and raised as such..His was not having to be anything more than what he wanted, a public servant...

1. That's because you know so little.
I'm about to relieve some of that ignorance.


2. Franklin Roosevelt had a visceral animosity toward businessmen, entrepreneurs, successful capitalists. And he had a way with words, in describing them. "unscrupulousmoney changers..." the greed and shortsightedness of bankers andbusinessmen," "..rulers of the exchange of mankind's goods have failed through their own stubbornness and their own incompetence" "we apply social values more noble than mere monetary profit." "there must be an end to a conduct in banking and in business which too often has given to a sacred trust the likeness of callous and selfish wrongdoing."

Wow! What the heck was that about? He was besmirching his fellow Americans, many of whom were responsible for the progress of society.

I'm about to tell you.


3. Franklin Roosevelt came from a very wealthy family, so one may puzzle at the vituperation he leveled at similar folks. Perhaps that very background is the reason, as with the politician George McGovern, he never learned how business worked, or how to earn money.
His mother Sara reported: "Money was never discussed at home....All his books and toys were provided for him. We never subjected the boy to a lot of don'ts." "BEFORE THE TRUMPET: Young Franklin Roosevelt, 1882-1905," by Geoffrey C. Ward, p.125-126

a. Then again...how could they teach him about finance, after all, his father, James, inherited his fortune...and almost lost it by way of poor investments. His mother's father, Warren Delano, made his money selling opium illegally to Chinese addicts. When he retired to legitimate business, he didn't do much better than Franklin's father. Delano went back to the Opium trade, which is why Sara spent early years in China.
Ward, Op. Cit., p. 71.



4. Based on the hagiography, one can't help but be surprised at how mediocre young Franklin was at just about everything.
Prep school was Groton, college, Harvard....excelling at neither sports nor academics. "I can't understand this thing about Frank. He never amounted to much at school."
Ward, Op. Cit., p. 180-181

a. A 'C to C+' student; not much for homework, study, or research....but he focused on social-political clubs, debates and journalism.

b. Not the only rejection, but a significant one, was his attempt to join Porcellian, the oldest and most elite social club at Harvard. Theodore Roosevelt and other members of the Roosevelt family belonged to the club, but Franklin D. Roosevelt, who was president of the Harvard Crimson, never managed to be elected a member. At some time, in his late thirties, he told his relative Sheffield Cowles that this had been "the greatest disappointment in his life".
Frances Richardson Keller,Fictions of U. S. History : A Theory & Four Illustrations, p. 116.


Porcellian members were future entrepreneurs, businessmen, bankers, and corporate lawyers.
And they had rejected Franklin Roosevelt.

 

[PoliticalChic]

When the facts are revealed, those who have been raised on hagiography, the "Roosevelt is God" groupies, don't try to deny the facts...the squeal like stuck pigs, they obfuscate, they attack the one revealing the facts.


Why not admit the truth?

Answer: because once any truth is admitted, the flood gates would open and their most closely held beliefs and worldview, i.e., Roosevelt and collectivist governance, would dissolve, like sand castles when the tide rolls in.

.

The opening statement is simply wacko. FDR's programs and ideas have outlasted the 20th Century and continue into the 21st Century. No other President of the 20th Century can compare to the lasting influence and legacy of FDR.
The opening statement is simply PoliticalChic telling everyone that if they would simply accept her warped and distorted opinions, everyone would understand and realize what a horrible leader FDR was and reject the opinions of the world's leading historians as well as the folks who lived during his era and re-elected him over and over.

I sent this invitation to you earlier.....
Yet you've conceded this early????


1. You, whining 'is not, isssss nottttttt!' hardly constitutes my losing. I never lose.

2. "Regurgitate one you fantasize blah blah blah..." Don't you know what 'fantasize' means? No? Well....let me educate you on that, as well....fantasize means indulge in daydreaming. As I always......always....quote accurately, link and source all material.....clearly you are lying in a feeble attempt to shield your idol.

3. You leave me no choice but to produce another scholarly, well documented and supported, series of revelations about the wanna-be dictator, Franklin Delano Roosevevelt.
And I challenge you to dispute my facts.
a. For your edification: Fact..... a thing that is indisputably the case."



I purposely wrote facts in the OP so you couldn't miss the targets.

But...sadly, you've, once again, proven to be a failure.

I wouldn't worry about Campass. Hell. His sig line was IN FDR WE TRUST.

Shows what a clueless moron he is.

All anyone has to do is Google FDR to see how his polices prolonged the GD.

He had all kinds of projects to put people to work the problem was they were Govt. projects that needed tax dollars to fund them.

Hell. That asshat raised taxes as much as 90% on businesses. It was no wonder there were no jobs. No one could afford to pay anyone.

Harding, on the other hand, did everything right hence the Roaring 20's.

In FDR we trust my ass.

If he did everything right then the market would not have crashed...

That really makes no sense.

This is what you FDR-groupies are reduced to.

 

[PoliticalChic]

At your advanced age, one would imagine that you recognize this truth:

Reality is defined by actions, not by words.


Prior to the 'Great Depression,' this nation had over thirty economic downturns.
They lasted 1-2 years.

Roosevelt, by design, in order to undermine our nation's foundings, extended the depression by a factor of four or five....along with the agony inflicted on the people.



So....quoting words merely is simply an exercise in what you always do.....lie.

Your point?

The Depression was already going for three years when FDR took office. Hoovers "Prosperity is just around the corner" was a myth...it took FDR to actually DO something

The greatness of FDR was that he realized that the depression was more about the suffering of the poor than about the profits for the rich

My point?

At your advanced age, one would imagine that you recognize this truth:

Reality is defined by actions, not by words.


Prior to the 'Great Depression,' this nation had over thirty economic downturns.
They lasted 1-2 years.

Roosevelt, by design, in order to undermine our nation's foundings, extended the depression by a factor of four or five times....along with the agony inflicted on the people.



So....quoting words merely is simply an exercise in what you always do.....lie.

The Great Depression was already three years old when FDR took office, so your 1-2 years was already past

FDRs policies were directed at easing suffering, putting people back to work and taking care of those who needed it. He really didn't care if stock portfolios returned as quickly as possible

Like FDR said.....People don't eat in the long run

"FDRs policies were directed at easing suffering, putting people back to work..."

In that case, he was a horrible failure.


1. Here is an interesting visual: imagine a triple line of the unemployed, three across, consisting of those unemployed under Hoover, in 1931. The line would have gonefrom Los Angeles, across the country, to the border of Maine.

What effect did Roosevelt have on the line?

Well, eight years later, in 1939, the length of the line would have gone further, from the Maine border, south to Boston, then on to New York City, then to Philadelphia, on to Washington, D.C.- and finally, into Virginia.
Folsom, "New Deal or Raw Deal"


Think Folsom was wrong?

Check it out at the US Bureau of the Census, 'Historical Statistics of the United States: Colonial Times to 1970, I-126 andUnemployment Statistics during the Great Depression



2. " “We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work. And I have just one interest, and if I am wrong…somebody else can have my job. I want to see this country prosperous. I want to see people get a job. I want to see people get enough to eat. We have never made good on our promises…I say after eight years of this administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started…And an enormous debt to boot!”
Morgenthau Diary, May 9, 1939, Franklin Roosevelt Presidential Library


3. March 4, 1933, in his first Inaugural Address, FDR said “Our greatest primary task is to put people to work.”

This meant that the New Deal was a wretched, ill-conceived failure.

You have been debunked on this over and over. It has been plainly explained that the workers in the New Deal programs were included in this fraudulent .example. Over 3 1/2 million workers would have had to get in line and not got to work to make this silly story about a line work.

Explain why you continue to use the irrelevant method of Lebbergott to calculate unemployment when it was neither designed nor meant to portray actual unemployment numbers. It was designed to show how many workers were absent from private industry and did not include government workers.

"You have been debunked on this over and over."

'Is not, is noootttt" is in no way 'debunking.'


Still waiting.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Your point?

The Depression was already going for three years when FDR took office. Hoovers "Prosperity is just around the corner" was a myth...it took FDR to actually DO something

The greatness of FDR was that he realized that the depression was more about the suffering of the poor than about the profits for the rich

My point?

At your advanced age, one would imagine that you recognize this truth:

Reality is defined by actions, not by words.


Prior to the 'Great Depression,' this nation had over thirty economic downturns.
They lasted 1-2 years.

Roosevelt, by design, in order to undermine our nation's foundings, extended the depression by a factor of four or five times....along with the agony inflicted on the people.



So....quoting words merely is simply an exercise in what you always do.....lie.

The Great Depression was already three years old when FDR took office, so your 1-2 years was already past

FDRs policies were directed at easing suffering, putting people back to work and taking care of those who needed it. He really didn't care if stock portfolios returned as quickly as possible

Like FDR said.....People don't eat in the long run

"FDRs policies were directed at easing suffering, putting people back to work..."

In that case, he was a horrible failure.


1. Here is an interesting visual: imagine a triple line of the unemployed, three across, consisting of those unemployed under Hoover, in 1931. The line would have gonefrom Los Angeles, across the country, to the border of Maine.

What effect did Roosevelt have on the line?

Well, eight years later, in 1939, the length of the line would have gone further, from the Maine border, south to Boston, then on to New York City, then to Philadelphia, on to Washington, D.C.- and finally, into Virginia.
Folsom, "New Deal or Raw Deal"


Think Folsom was wrong?

Check it out at the US Bureau of the Census, 'Historical Statistics of the United States: Colonial Times to 1970, I-126 andUnemployment Statistics during the Great Depression



2. " “We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work. And I have just one interest, and if I am wrong…somebody else can have my job. I want to see this country prosperous. I want to see people get a job. I want to see people get enough to eat. We have never made good on our promises…I say after eight years of this administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started…And an enormous debt to boot!”
Morgenthau Diary, May 9, 1939, Franklin Roosevelt Presidential Library


3. March 4, 1933, in his first Inaugural Address, FDR said “Our greatest primary task is to put people to work.”

This meant that the New Deal was a wretched, ill-conceived failure.

A picture is worth a thousand Political Chic cut and pastes

Yes, FDR really did average 20% Unemployment during his first two terms. See how US finally dips in 1940? Had WWII not started it probably would have gone on as long as he was in office

He had to reverse course, and come begging to the business community through fear of war.

1. Careful students of the Roosevelt presidency knew that war must be near because FDR had decided to change the tone of the political debate in Washington. For almost eight years, Wall Street bankers and corporate leaders had been his favorite scapegoats for explaining why the Great Depression was persisting. The premise of his New Deal, after all was that businessmen had failed and that government should regulate, plan and direct much of the American economy to break the hold of the Great Depression.”


2. On May 16, 1940, Roosevelt had addressed Congress and asked for more than a billion dollars for defense, with a commitment for fifty thousand military aircraft. He knew, also, that he needed the good will of business to win the war: no longer would he call them “privileged princes…thirsting for power.”


3. On May 26, 1940 his Fireside Chat signaled a new relationship with business: he would insure their profits, and assuage their fears that he would nationalize their factories.
a. “…we are calling upon the resources, the efficiency and the ingenuity of the American manufacturers of war material of all kinds -- airplanes and tanks and guns and ships, and all the hundreds of products that go into this material. The Government of the United States itself manufactures few of the implements of war. Private industry will continue to be the source of most of this material, and private industry will have to be speeded up to produce it at the rate and efficiency called for by the needs of the times….Private industry will have the responsibility of providing the best, speediest and most efficient mass production of which it is capable.” On National Defense - May 26, 1940

 

[PoliticalChic]

...says the President who averaged 20% unemployment for his entire first 2 terms

Thanks to the GOP do nothing regime...

Taking a hand a fiction writing?

Dems owned Congress during the Jihad on Free Enterprise and the Constitution know as the "FDR Presidency"

Ahem, the depression occurred during GOP Hoover in office,(1929), FDR didn't hit the skids till Jan., 1933.....

Can't you read????

FDR won by promising to reverse Hoover's policies and programs....then went right on and continued them!

Tugwell, writing to Moley, said of Hoover: “[W]e were too hard on a man who really invented most of the devices we used.”
Letter from Rexford G. Tugwell to Raymond Moley, January 29, 1965, Raymond Moley Papers, “Speeches and Writings,” Box 245-49, Hoover Institution on War, Revolution and Peace, Stanford University, Stanford, CA, as cited in Davis W. Houck, “Rhetoric as Currency: Herbert Hoover and the 1929 Stock Market Crash,” Rhetoric & Public Affairs 3, 2000, p. 174.


There was no accident in the Depression....FDR knew exactly what he was doing.

 

[PoliticalChic]

And he said this, too...

"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

Seems he lied a lot.....like you.

Did a damned good job didn't he?

Such a great job that he was elected in landslides four straight times

About as good a job as those who tried to educate you did.

 

[PoliticalChic]

And he said this, too...

"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

Seems he lied a lot.....like you.

Did a damned good job didn't he?

Such a great job that he was elected in landslides four straight times

So in your Leftnutter mind, a POTUS should only be evaluated on their election results. Then you must think Reagan and Nixon GREAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATTTTTTTTTT!!!!

That's how they....imagine.

"Principle is nothing to liberals. Winning is everything."
Coulter

 

[PoliticalChic]

6. Typical of Marxist jargon, Roosevelt stressed

a. class warfare, and

b. attacks on capitalism, capitalists, and wealth.

In short....the typical totalitarian.


"He started off on the wrong foot when, in his inaugural address, he blamed the Depression on “unscrupulous money changers.” He said nothing about the role of the Fed’s mismanagement and little about the follies of Congress that had contributed to the problem. As a result of his efforts, the economy would linger in depression for the rest of the decade.

In his first 100 days, he swung hard at the profit order. Instead of clearing away the prosperity barriers erected by his predecessor, he built new ones of his own. He struck in every known way at the integrity of the U.S. dollar through quantitative increases and qualitative deterioration. He seized the people’s gold holdings and subsequently devalued the dollar by 40 percent." Hans F. Sennholz, “The Great Depression,” The Freeman, April 1975, p. 210




The clear implication, one more hallmark of totalitarian doctrine, is that only by overarching, unlimited government could save common folk from the greedy rich.

And keeping the public suffering, keeping the Depression going...was in the interests of his control.

At the beginning of the same month, FDR was inaugurated as President. And before Congress went into recess it granted powers to Roosevelt unprecedented in peacetime. From Congressional hearings, 1973: “Since March 9, 1933, the United States has been in a state of declared national emergency.” http://www.freedomsite.net/93-549.htm



And, notice how Roosevelt did everything he could to see that Stalin's Soviet Communist regime survived and succeeded.

 

[regent]

Chic, I have suggested a number of time that you get your facts to the nation's historians as soon as possible. The historians, even those that claim to be conservative, are still rating FDR as one of America's best presidents. When they see your facts they will have to immediately change their ratings of FDR.
I only wish I could see those historian's faces when they read your fact sheet about FDR. Convincing a few posters is a waste of time, they don't write history books, nor are their presidential ratings given much credence.
Do it now, Chic, or those historians will continue putting out history books praising FDR, and just as bad is how the people that lived through that era got their facts wrong.

 

[PoliticalChic]

When the facts are revealed, those who have been raised on hagiography, the "Roosevelt is God" groupies, don't try to deny the facts...the squeal like stuck pigs, they obfuscate, they attack the one revealing the facts.


Why not admit the truth?

Answer: because once any truth is admitted, the flood gates would open and their most closely held beliefs and worldview, i.e., Roosevelt and collectivist governance, would dissolve, like sand castles when the tide rolls in.




1. It is a fact that the economic downturn that Republican Warren Harding face was at the least comparable to the one that Franklin Roosevelt face. Harding's plan, "...tax cuts, spending cuts and relatively non-interventionist economic policy,..." ended the recession in a year and a half.

And Roosevelt knew all of it.


2. Republicans prior to Hoover provided prosperity for the nation. It was called "The Roaring Twenties." Roosevelt knew this, but, instead, imposed Benito Mussolini's Fascist Corporatism on the United States.


a. It is a fact that none of the New Dealers were constitutionalists. Roosevelt's economist, Rexford Tugwell said: "Any people who must be governed according to the written codes of an instrument which defines the spheres of individual and group, state and federal actions must expect to suffer from the constant maladjustment of progress. A life' which changes and a constitution for governance which does not must always raise questions which are difficult for solution."
Manly, "The Twenty Year Revolution," p.63

Roosevelt had the very same view of the Constitution.


3. It is a fact that the New Deal was Roosevelt's copy of Mussolini's Fascist policies. Rex Tugwell was opposed to any private business not controlled by the government. General Hugh Johnson was working with Tugwell on a bill to create the NRA, and gave Francis Perkins, Roosevelt's Sec'y of Labor, the book by Rafaello Viglione, "The Corporate State," in which the neat Italian system of dictatorship for the benefit of the people was glowingly described."
Francis Perkins, "The Roosevelt I Knew."

The NRA was copied from Mussolini's corporative system.

a. Francis Perkins questioned whether Johnson 'really understood the democratic process..."New Dealers had no problem with the fascist nature of their plans."
Again?
FDR had no problem with imposing Fascism.


b. It is a fact that the New Deal was copied from Mussiolini's Fascism and
" Fascism did not acquire an evil name in Washington
until Hitler became a menace to·the Soviet Union."
Manly, Op. Cit., p. 48



Had Hitler not attacked his ally, Joseph Stalin, Franklin Roosevelt would have continued his amiable relationships with other dictators.
That's a fact.

Wow, MS. Chic. Your hindsight evidently equals your foresight, and I fear not even your oculist can help you. Your "facts" are not facts, but unproven speculations. For one, FDR and Stalin were NEVER friends, but the necessity of creating a second front was vital to gaining time to train and equip, to buildup in the British Isles and keep Hitler on the east side of the channel and off English soil. All the rest looks like speculations to me also, especially the part about how FDR was instrumental in dragging out of a very deep depression...I was THERE! These musings by critics are codswallop!

"For one, FDR and Stalin were NEVER friends, but the necessity of creating a second front was vital to gaining time to train and equip, to buildup in the British Isles and keep Hitler on the east side of the channel and off English soil."
You might want to take a look at post #92

And this:

So....what, exactly, did Stalin want from American foreign policy? The call was for an Anglo-American 'second front,' in Western Europe, to draw German forces away from their attack on mother Russia, the putative 'first front.'

The astute should have noted thatthe real 'first front' was Poland, which had been attacked in 1939 by both Hitler and Stalin.
But, put that aside....


a. After Pearl Harbor, wasn't the South Pacifica second front?


b. Ten thousand American and Filipino troops were killed, and 20,000 wounded, atBataan.
How about a 'front' there?

c. How aboutNorth Africa?
In June, 1942, Rommel accepted surrender of the British, Tobruk, Libya. Rommel took more than 30,000 prisoners, 2,000 vehicles, 2,000 tons of fuel, and 5,000 tons of rations. Harry Hopkins and George Marshal 'vigorously opposed' any operation in North Africa, as it would delay the 'second front.'



Starting to get the picture?
The only "second front" that counted, according to Stalin and Roosevelt, was the one that Stalin named as the "second front."

Roosevelt: "I would rather lose New Zealand, Australia or anything else than have the Russian front collapse."
Robert Dallek, "Franklin D. Roosevelt and American Foreign Policy, 1932-1945," p. 338.


Yup!
'Russia Uber Alles'


Turns out you are dead wrong about FDR's relationship with Stalin.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Chic, I have suggested a number of time that you get your facts to the nation's historians as soon as possible. The historians, even those that claim to be conservative, are still rating FDR as one of America's best presidents. When they see your facts they will have to immediately change their ratings of FDR.
I only wish I could see those historian's faces when they read your fact sheet about FDR. Convincing a few posters is a waste of time, they don't write history books, nor are their presidential ratings given much credence.
Do it now, Chic, or those historians will continue putting out history books praising FDR, and just as bad is how the people that lived through that era got their facts wrong.

You're a fool...but at least you recognize facts.

 

[rightwinger]

Chic, I have suggested a number of time that you get your facts to the nation's historians as soon as possible. The historians, even those that claim to be conservative, are still rating FDR as one of America's best presidents. When they see your facts they will have to immediately change their ratings of FDR.
I only wish I could see those historian's faces when they read your fact sheet about FDR. Convincing a few posters is a waste of time, they don't write history books, nor are their presidential ratings given much credence.
Do it now, Chic, or those historians will continue putting out history books praising FDR, and just as bad is how the people that lived through that era got their facts wrong.

PC has little interest in facts
She is interested in playing USMBs version of Ann Coulter and seeing how many liberals she can piss off

Watch me everybody.....FDR was a commie and the worst President in history
Wanna see my "facts"?

 

[PoliticalChic]

Chic, I have suggested a number of time that you get your facts to the nation's historians as soon as possible. The historians, even those that claim to be conservative, are still rating FDR as one of America's best presidents. When they see your facts they will have to immediately change their ratings of FDR.
I only wish I could see those historian's faces when they read your fact sheet about FDR. Convincing a few posters is a waste of time, they don't write history books, nor are their presidential ratings given much credence.
Do it now, Chic, or those historians will continue putting out history books praising FDR, and just as bad is how the people that lived through that era got their facts wrong.

PC has little interest in facts
She is interested in playing USMBs version of Ann Coulter and seeing how many liberals she can piss off

Watch me everybody.....FDR was a commie and the worst President in history
Wanna see my "facts"?

"PC has little interest in facts."

Why don't you provide examples of my posts that are not facts....

...after all...you don't want folks to think you're a liar....do you?

 

[rightwinger]

Chic, I have suggested a number of time that you get your facts to the nation's historians as soon as possible. The historians, even those that claim to be conservative, are still rating FDR as one of America's best presidents. When they see your facts they will have to immediately change their ratings of FDR.
I only wish I could see those historian's faces when they read your fact sheet about FDR. Convincing a few posters is a waste of time, they don't write history books, nor are their presidential ratings given much credence.
Do it now, Chic, or those historians will continue putting out history books praising FDR, and just as bad is how the people that lived through that era got their facts wrong.

PC has little interest in facts
She is interested in playing USMBs version of Ann Coulter and seeing how many liberals she can piss off

Watch me everybody.....FDR was a commie and the worst President in history
Wanna see my "facts"?

"PC has little interest in facts."

Why don't you provide examples of my posts that are not facts....

...after all...you don't want folks to think you're a liar....do you?

Sorry .....but opinions do not qualify as facts
Neither do Conspiracy Theories

 

[Camp]

Your point?

The Depression was already going for three years when FDR took office. Hoovers "Prosperity is just around the corner" was a myth...it took FDR to actually DO something

The greatness of FDR was that he realized that the depression was more about the suffering of the poor than about the profits for the rich

My point?

At your advanced age, one would imagine that you recognize this truth:

Reality is defined by actions, not by words.


Prior to the 'Great Depression,' this nation had over thirty economic downturns.
They lasted 1-2 years.

Roosevelt, by design, in order to undermine our nation's foundings, extended the depression by a factor of four or five times....along with the agony inflicted on the people.



So....quoting words merely is simply an exercise in what you always do.....lie.

The Great Depression was already three years old when FDR took office, so your 1-2 years was already past

FDRs policies were directed at easing suffering, putting people back to work and taking care of those who needed it. He really didn't care if stock portfolios returned as quickly as possible

Like FDR said.....People don't eat in the long run

"FDRs policies were directed at easing suffering, putting people back to work..."

In that case, he was a horrible failure.


1. Here is an interesting visual: imagine a triple line of the unemployed, three across, consisting of those unemployed under Hoover, in 1931. The line would have gonefrom Los Angeles, across the country, to the border of Maine.

What effect did Roosevelt have on the line?

Well, eight years later, in 1939, the length of the line would have gone further, from the Maine border, south to Boston, then on to New York City, then to Philadelphia, on to Washington, D.C.- and finally, into Virginia.
Folsom, "New Deal or Raw Deal"


Think Folsom was wrong?

Check it out at the US Bureau of the Census, 'Historical Statistics of the United States: Colonial Times to 1970, I-126 andUnemployment Statistics during the Great Depression



2. " “We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work. And I have just one interest, and if I am wrong…somebody else can have my job. I want to see this country prosperous. I want to see people get a job. I want to see people get enough to eat. We have never made good on our promises…I say after eight years of this administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started…And an enormous debt to boot!”
Morgenthau Diary, May 9, 1939, Franklin Roosevelt Presidential Library


3. March 4, 1933, in his first Inaugural Address, FDR said “Our greatest primary task is to put people to work.”

This meant that the New Deal was a wretched, ill-conceived failure.

You have been debunked on this over and over. It has been plainly explained that the workers in the New Deal programs were included in this fraudulent .example. Over 3 1/2 million workers would have had to get in line and not got to work to make this silly story about a line work.

Explain why you continue to use the irrelevant method of Lebbergott to calculate unemployment when it was neither designed nor meant to portray actual unemployment numbers. It was designed to show how many workers were absent from private industry and did not include government workers.

"You have been debunked on this over and over."

'Is not, is noootttt" is in no way 'debunking.'


Still waiting.

I did not challenge the first portion of this thread by saying "Is no, is noootttt". Nor has that been the basis of any other challenge I have made. You are deflecting and evading by dishonestly inferring that I did not make specific and detailed challenges with objective, reliable and academic links.

You have been specifically challenged on your use of a method of calculating general unemployment figures that were not designed for general unemployment figures (Lebbergott) and your ignoring the method designed for calculating general unemployment figures (Darby). You also fail to explain the logic or reason for using these distorted numbers.

You have evaded answering why you refuse to include the Dust Bowl Storms that began shortly after FDR took office. Like other anti-New Dealers, you refuse to acknowledge the natural disasters that plagued the Roosevelt administration.

Those are just two of the debunkings or challenges you have evaded confronting. They happen to be some of the first claims made in your thread. Answer them and we can quickly move on to each one of your distorted claims.

People get tired of you demanding evidence that your claims of facts are wrong or disputed because you pull the same routine you have used for years. You evade and deflect and never acknowledge that you may be mistaken or wrong. Your response is always false bravado and the claim you are never wrong.

 

[regent]

Chic, I have suggested a number of time that you get your facts to the nation's historians as soon as possible. The historians, even those that claim to be conservative, are still rating FDR as one of America's best presidents. When they see your facts they will have to immediately change their ratings of FDR.
I only wish I could see those historian's faces when they read your fact sheet about FDR. Convincing a few posters is a waste of time, they don't write history books, nor are their presidential ratings given much credence.
Do it now, Chic, or those historians will continue putting out history books praising FDR, and just as bad is how the people that lived through that era got their facts wrong.

You're a fool...but at least you recognize facts.

Are historical facts similar to scientific facts?