The Right To Bear Arms

[The Derp]

Also where'd you get this idea that gun owners don't report their weapons being stolen?

From one of your fellow posters on this thread who said as a defense of "responsible gun owners" that only 86% of them report their guns as stolen. Why isn't that 100%? Simple; negligence. Since "responsible gun ownership" isn't something that can be determined until after the period of gun ownership ends, we have to assume that what's inherent is negligence.

 

[The Derp]

Pray tell oh 2 dimensional sage how legally owning a firearm is an act of negligence

Simple; as many as 600,000 guns are stolen each year. So right away, there's inherent negligence among gun owners. If gun owners weren't negligent, then the number of guns stolen each year would be *0*.

You guys can't even 100% report stolen guns to the police. So what the **** responsibility is inherent, pray tell?

 

[Daryl Hunt]

close the loopholes in the Gun Fairs

Here are the facts. The stone-cold, hard facts.

“Calling private, noncommercial sales a “gun show loophole” is only meant to rile people up who have never been to a gun show. Controllists hope people hear about a loophole and picture criminals fresh out of prison loading up their trunks with AR-15s.”

And clearly it works. Uninformed, emotional progressives are all over the U.S. screaming “the gun loopholes are coming! the gun loopholes are coming!

Excerpt From Control
Glenn Beck. This material may be protected by copyright.

The only reason anyone would do a gun transfer as a "private sale" was if they wanted to avoid a background check. Now why would someone want to avoid a background check?

Wrong. I purchased a gun from my neighbor awhile back. It wasn't to avoid background checks, it was because I wanted it. And not to use it for illegal means, I just wanted it.

The problem I see here is, both sides are off the deep end.

 

[The Derp]

That's not what the law says

But what about your personal responsibility? Oh that's right, you have none.

 

[The Derp]

And it only takes one instance to prove you wrong.

No. It takes *0* gun thefts to prove me wrong.

I know exactly where all my guns are

Are you sure? Because from what I've read, some of you people wouldn't even notice the gun was missing. And you might know where they are right now, but ten minutes from now? Ten days? Ten years? You have no clue. As many as 600,000 of you people have at least one gun stolen from you each year. And only 86% of those guns stolen are even reported as stolen. Which means there could be as many as 84,000 guns "disappear" to the street and no one is looking for them.

The only word for that is negligence.

 

[The Derp]

As many as.

Yes, as many as 600,000 guns a year are stolen from people exactly like you. The average is 234,000. Which is still staggeringly high. Why isn't that number *0*? Negligence...that's why. Gun owners are just inherently negligent people.

That's like saying virtually spotless. Something is either spotless or it isn't.

It's nothing like that.

 

[The Derp]

Wrong. I purchased a gun from my neighbor awhile back. It wasn't to avoid background checks, it was because I wanted it. And not to use it for illegal means, I just wanted it.

What difference does it make your reason for buying the gun when it comes to a background check? Isn't going through a background check an act of responsibility? So why don't "responsible gun owners" do them for all transactions?

 

[The Derp]

Since you don't seem to have a problem with background checks at dealers, what's the problem expanding it to the Gun Shows and Online Sales?

Why not expand them to every transaction, even private sales and "family transfers"? If we want to say gun owners are responsible, then the responsible thing to do would be to run a background check every time a gun changes hands.

 

[Ame®icano]

Has human nature changed?

Have people stopped doing evil things and threatening innocent people?

Have politicians learned to respect the sovereignty of the people and stop trying to micromanage their existence?

If not, then of course it isn't obsolete. You'd have to be an idiot to think that or completely ignorant of the purpose of the Second amendment which is to protect our right to self defense and prevent tyranny and oppression.

When the people fear the government, we have tyranny. When the government fears it's people, then we have freedom.

The 2nd amendments is our protection from government tyranny.

So basically, it's our protection from tyranny of Democrats and their surrogates: progressives, socialists, communists.

No wonder why they hate the 2nd so much...

 

[kaz]

Contrived statistics that are intentionally misleading and fail to tell the whole story.

What part of the story of your gun is more likely to get stolen than it is to defend you or your family am I missing? Please, indulge me.

So just to be clear, you think public educators are a bunch of red neck right wing bunch of hacks who touch a gun and start shooting up the place like Yosemite Sam?

No, what I think is that "responsible gun owners" don't exist and never have, and that you use it as a "No true Scotsman" defense for when one of these "responsible gun owners" goes on a rampage, or when a gun is stolen from one of these "responsible gun owners" and then used in a crime.

Both of those things are more likely to happen than you acting as a hero and defending yourself or your family.

The rantings of a lunatic. If you want to make lucid arguments, let me know. Also, go back to high school and learn to use quote marks

 

[The Derp]

The rantings of a lunatic. If you want to make lucid arguments, let me know. Also, go back to high school and learn to use quote marks

It's crazy to think you'll be a hero, saving people with your gun...it's not crazy to say that "responsible gun owners" is just another form of the "No true Scotsman" fallacy.

 

[Brain357]

Second one today. This is really rare where there is strong gun control.
Maryland police officer shot and killed is second cop murdered in 12 hours

Law enforcement needs to demand gun control.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I haven't proposed on stitch of banning any weapon short of a nuclear warhead.

Just for the record - even nuclear weapons should not be banned. However, it isn’t a concern. For starters, who could even afford an actual nuclear missile? Only the super elite like Bill Gates. Think any of them are even remotely interested in a nuclear weapon? Nope. They have private security so they don’t worry about anything.

But here is the ultimate reason why you don’t need to worry about private owners of nuclear weapons: nobody sells them. They are only produced by the federal government - not by any private corporation. The federal government is under no obligation to sell anything they develop. And the black market would not be able to legally provide them because the federal government is constitutionally authorized to control material coming into the U.S.

And if I remember correctly, uranium is pretty much all owned by one government or another. It's not as though a private citizen can simply order it on the Internet.

 

[Cecilie1200]

If the Founding Fathers weren't dead, they'd line up to each smack the snot out of you for putting your inane bullshit words into their mouths.

 

[Cecilie1200]

WHY THE **** ISN'T IT 100%?

So much for the narrative of "responsible gun owners"...they report a gun is stolen less than 9 out of 10 times. That's ******* pathetic. You can sure as shit bet 100% of car thefts are reported.

Now, why would a "responsible gun owner" not report their gun as stolen!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! What could be the only reason?


Yes! So thanks for proving my point...states with shitty gun laws see more gun thefts than states with good gun laws. So again, it's the "responsible gun owners" who are to blame. This is exactly what I am talking about when I say that guns are trafficked to cities and blue states via "iron pipelines". A practice that could be all but eliminated by requiring all gun transactions and transfers require a background check.



The states you listed in your cut and paste that had the highest rates of gun theft are all pro-gun, red states. So the guns get stolen from "responsible gun owners" in those states and then trafficked into the other states with stricter gun laws. That's exactly what the "iron pipeline" is.


As of now. But they can't pretend it will never happen because it happens 234,000 times a year, on average.

you really like to ask stupid questions.

How the **** do I know why someone wouldn't report a gun or anything else stolen?

How to go AR Shopping.

1. Steal a Ford F-350 and a full sized Van
2. Wait until very early morning
3. Crash it into the front of the store
4. Back the Ford outside
5. Begin transfer all the ARs into the Van
6. Transfer the 223 and 556 ammo to the Van
7. Drive the Van to your own Van and transfer the Weapons and Ammo to it
8. Drive the Ford F-350 and the stolen van to an out of the way location
9. pour gas all over and inside both the stolen Van and the F-350 and light it.
10. Drive your van to a Public Storage facility and unload all the weapons.

Done.

The Mass Shooters don't do this. But if you go into the various "Militias" you may find those weapons. You can't use this to justify that only Criminals obtain Guns illegally. One can mail order an AR and all kinds of little toys to go with it online and lie out my ass and obtain a gun. You know, the part where it says, "Are you a Convicted Felon" if I were a convicted felon. I can do the same thing at a Gun Show as long as my fake ID looks real. Or I can go to any legal Gun Shop and give the real info and purchase that as well.

Tell you what why don't you go and illegally buy a dozen guns record the whole thing and show us how easy it is.

And I don't know how many times I have to tell you this before it sinks into your tiny goldfish brain but

I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR CRIMES OTHER PEOPLE COMMIT

These Moon Bats don't believe in personal responsibility. They want you to be held responsible for the crimes of other people by denying you your Constitutional rights.

The really shitty thing is that most of the gun crimes that takes place in this country happen in the Democrat controlled inner city shitholes that are the voting base for the Democrat Party. Just look at any election result map and the blue areas are the ones with the high crimes.

The Democrat core base is where most of the gun violence takes place. They need to get their own house in order before demanding that your right to keep and bear arms be abolished.

The entire argument of these idiots is that someone else committed a crime therefore you cannot be allowed to own the same weapon used to commit that crime.

Which flies directly in the face of the individual rights this nation was founded upon.

The hypocrisy is obvious as these moronic knee jerk reactionaries will not apply the standards they want for gun crimes to all crimes.

I always figured their argument boiled down to "I know I can't be trusted with dangerous objects, so I assume no one can be."

 

[Cecilie1200]

For instance, I'd love to slap every leftist I meet until his eyes switch sockets, but for some reason, this is illegal.

Posturing doesn't make anyone think you're threatening or strong. It makes people think you're a phony. Which you probably are.

Dear, just because it would be posturing if YOU said it, doesn't mean it's not a simple statement of fact when I do. Unlike you, I'm not a coward afflicted with autophobia.

And btw . . .

I don't give a shit what "people think",

Anyone who knows me knows it's a statement of fact,

and

YOU are not "people'.

 

[Cecilie1200]

close the loopholes in the Gun Fairs

Here are the facts. The stone-cold, hard facts.

“Calling private, noncommercial sales a “gun show loophole” is only meant to rile people up who have never been to a gun show. Controllists hope people hear about a loophole and picture criminals fresh out of prison loading up their trunks with AR-15s.”

And clearly it works. Uninformed, emotional progressives are all over the U.S. screaming “the gun loopholes are coming! the gun loopholes are coming!

Excerpt From Control
Glenn Beck. This material may be protected by copyright.

The only reason anyone would do a gun transfer as a "private sale" was if they wanted to avoid a background check. Now why would someone want to avoid a background check?

You've told us a lot there about how YOU think, but not a damned thing about how others do.

 

[Cecilie1200]

close the loopholes in the Gun Fairs

Here are the facts. The stone-cold, hard facts.

“Calling private, noncommercial sales a “gun show loophole” is only meant to rile people up who have never been to a gun show. Controllists hope people hear about a loophole and picture criminals fresh out of prison loading up their trunks with AR-15s.”

And clearly it works. Uninformed, emotional progressives are all over the U.S. screaming “the gun loopholes are coming! the gun loopholes are coming!

Excerpt From Control
Glenn Beck. This material may be protected by copyright.

Using cites from Glen Beck? Give me a friggin break. And I never proposed outlawing or confiscating any weapons as long as they are legal. I do propose taking the one weapon used in all the high body count mass shootings and moving it into a level where the people are the LEAST Likely to become Mass Murderers. People like me. But since you are fighting it with all your being, I don't include you in the least likely category. But what should we expect from a paid NRA Employee.

Firearms have no control over people just admit it, you want to get rid of the Second Amendment

And neither do nukes. So Kim Jong Un should get all the nukes he wants. After all, nukes don't kill people, people kill people.

Since we're bringing up Kim Jong Un, your approach to gun control would translate into "The United States, Israel, and Great Britain shouldn't be allowed to have nukes, because North Korea can't be trusted with them."

 

[Cecilie1200]

Or maybe just maybe it's a father giving a rifle to a kid and the father knows his child isn't a felon

It's not the father's judgment to make that call. And didn't Adam Lanza's mother give him weapons?

The Columbine parents had no clue their kids were planning the massacre. Parents don't know shit about their kids lives, particularly teenagers. Don't be so stupid and naive.

But THAT never happens right?

How frequently does that happen? Again, you don't know because no background checks are run.

Here we go again

Holding everyone responsible for the acts of one person.

Lanza also shot an killed his mother.

And the columbine kids didn't get their weapons from their parents

DID Lanza's mother give him guns, or did he just take hers? I actually don't remember at this point.

 

[Ghost of a Rider]

If no gun owner is responsible, why bother citing examples of irresponsible behavior?

What kind of stupid question is this? I am citing instances of irresponsible behavior because gun owners are not responsible people, despite pretending they are.

You're not very good at this debate thing are you? Why not just come out and say that merely owning a gun is irresponsible? It wouldn't be true but at least you wouldn't be wasting your time and breath.

The problem is, not all gun owners are guilty of the irresponsible behavior you cite. That's the problem with your entire argument. Either you're telling us that irresponsible gun owners purchase their guns illegally and don't report them stolen or you're telling us that every single one of the millions of gun owners in the country purchased their guns illegally and wouldn't report them stolen. You can't have it both ways.

On the one hand you say that one who illegally obtains a firearm and fails to report it stolen is not a responsible gun owner and on the other hand you say all gun owners are irresponsible. Meaning that even those who purchase their guns legally and report them stolen are also irresponsible. So what is the point?

Of course they're irresponsible...as many as 600,000 guns a year are stolen from "responsible gun owners". There is no such thing as a responsible gun owner if that's what "responsible gun ownership" looks like.

Let's apply this reasoning to another area: According to 2015 figures, 10,265 people died that year in drunk driving accidents. That's nearly 30% of all auto fatalities. Why isn't it 0%? If this is what "responsible drivers" looks like then there are no responsible drivers. What's more, car manufacturers and liquor companies are to blame.

See how ridiculous that sounds? Besides, 600,000 is only a fraction of all the firearms owned in the U.S. Also, (if you're getting your numbers from the same article I'm looking at) the ATF says that burglaries of gun stores are“a significant source of illegally trafficked firearms”. Firearm dealers have to go through a process of applying for a dealer license with the ATF. After that, the ATF comes and inspects your business as to location in relation to schools and whatnot, and the security of the store and the firearms themselves. Only after the ATF is satisfied can he sell guns.

So according to you, even dealers who have their firearms under ATF approved structures, security systems and security apparatus are irresponsible gun owners. Face it, your arguments simply do not stand up under logical scrutiny because you're all over the place putting band-aids on the holes with even more ridiculous arguments.

And on top of that, only 86% of stolen guns are reported to the police! ONLY 86%. Why isn't it 100%? Why aren't 0 guns stolen a year? Simple; gun owners are not responsible people.

If only those pesky thieves would stop ruining the statistics by stealing guns, cars, money, credit information and Pez candy dispensers, the stats would be 0%. Damn thieves are ruining it for all of us.

Your error was in misconstruing his original remark about responsible gun owners to mean that all gun owners are responsible. Obviously that's not the case. Some are responsible, some are not. That is a fact, and your personal feelings and opinions about gun owners is irrelevant.

None are responsible. That's the point.

Not because you say so.

"Responsible gun owner" is a fallacy exactly like "No true Scotsman". Everyone is a "responsible gun owner" until they're not. That's the "No true Scotsman" fallacy.

Who said every gun owner is a responsible gun owner? This is what I was talking about. No one said that every gun owner is a responsible gun owner. Again, you misconstrued what he said. And I'm begining to think deliberately.

"Responsible gun owners" who don't report stolen guns do so because they want the gun to end up in the hands of a criminal or terrorist.
Don't be an idiot.

Then explain why 14% of "responsible gun owners" don't even notify the police when one of their guns are stolen. What could possibly be the reason nearly 33,000 guns a year are stolen and never reported to the police? Only three true reasons exist;

1. The "responsible gun owner" doesn't know how many guns they own, so they don't know when one goes missing.
2. The "responsible gun owner" is simply too fat and lazy to notify the police.
3. The "responsible gun owner" wants the gun on the street where it can end up in the hands of a criminal and/or terrorist.

No other explanations make sense.

Here's the thing,

1. A responsible gun owner DOES know how many guns he owns and knows when one goes missing.
2. A responsible gun owner is NOT too lazy to notify the police.
3. A responsible gun owner does NOT want the gun on the street where it can end up in the hands of a criminal and/or terrorist.

Why have you not been able to grasp this simple concept?