The Rich Love High Unemployment

"Political debates in the United States are routinely framed as a battle between conservatives who favor market outcomes, whatever they may be, against liberals who prefer government intervention to ensure that families have decent standards-of-living.

No. The difference is liberals believe it is legitimate role of government to ensure a certain standard of living. The right does not. The right believes it the role of government to protect your liberty......and that's about it.

"Conservatives want to use the government to distribute income upward to higher paid workers, business owners, and investors.

There is no evidence for this and the only reason it is being said is to rationalize the lefts attempt to redistribute wealth downwards.

"They support the establishment of rules and structures that have this effect.

"First and foremost, conservatives support nanny state policies that have the effect of increasing the supply of less-skilled workers (thereby lowering their wages), while at the same time restricting the supply of more highly educated professional employees (thereby raising their wages)."

Through what specific policies exactly has the right ensured that the labor pool is less skilled?
 
Do you see hyperinflation coming to the US anytime soon?

What would happen if every $10 bill in the country transformed into a $5 within a few weeks?

Would the rich profit from that?

Hyperinflation is not coming to America.

Major inflation is coming over the long term. I don't believe we will have an overnight collapse or anything but the government will never be able to pay an interest rate on it's bonds that equals commodities inflation. Saudi prince Alwaleed Bin Talal is ok with our current economic stimulus spending rate as long as it results in full employment & a robust economy so we can pay the debt back. We certainly have him fooled. We need a hell of a lot of innovation to pull this economy out of the ditch & even way more to pay down any debt without the Feds printing press buying up debt.
 
Isnt Obama and most of the Democrat elite in congress Rich?


Are you saying that Democrats love unemployment because they get to buy votes with other people's money?


Then you would be right on
Democrats get most of their campaign funding from the same 1% of US voters as do Republicans.

And it's not the one percent losing their jobs, homes and pensions.

I don't see how anyone can argue that "choosing" between Democrat OR Republican changes anything Wall Street does to Main Street.




Regan Created 21 million jobs


Obama Over---spent 6 trillion dollars and only ........ saved ..........fictiticious jobs.






I see a difference
Do you see the difference in the US manufacturing base between 1980 and 2009?

Only one State in history lost more jobs in a single decade than the US between 2000 - 2010.

The Soviet Union in the last ten years of its existence.

You can't see a solution to our jobs problem by focusing on Reagan or Obama; Republican or Democrat.

The only meaningful difference is between the richest 1% of the US population and their handmaidens (like Reagan and Obama) and the 90% of Americans who are being conned and lied to.
 
"Political debates in the United States are routinely framed as a battle between conservatives who favor market outcomes, whatever they may be, against liberals who prefer government intervention to ensure that families have decent standards-of-living.

No. The difference is liberals believe it is legitimate role of government to ensure a certain standard of living. The right does not. The right believes it the role of government to protect your liberty......and that's about it.

"Conservatives want to use the government to distribute income upward to higher paid workers, business owners, and investors.

There is no evidence for this and the only reason it is being said is to rationalize the lefts attempt to redistribute wealth downwards.

"They support the establishment of rules and structures that have this effect.

"First and foremost, conservatives support nanny state policies that have the effect of increasing the supply of less-skilled workers (thereby lowering their wages), while at the same time restricting the supply of more highly educated professional employees (thereby raising their wages)."

Through what specific policies exactly has the right ensured that the labor pool is less skilled?
If the right believes a legitimate role of government involves protecting liberty, that requires ensuring Wall Street doesn't loot your pension plan or any other part of your standard of living.

Unless you believe rich and poor enjoy equal liberty to be sleep under bridges?

When you say there's no evidence conservatives use government to redistribute income upwards, explain why a Mexican MD or lawyer who migrated illegally into Arizona would not be allowed to ply their profession while a Mexican laborer most likely would?

Specific policies that ensure increasing the supply of less skilled labor include ignoring illegal laborers and restricting immigration by professionals. The conservative nanny state ensures not everyone's labor is placed in international competition.

For more info see The Conservative Nanny State
 
High enployment is certainly better for employers than low unemployment.

You guys are aware, aren't you, of the THEORY that there is a "Natural RATE of unemployment" that is thought (by the FED) to be the ideal unemployment rate.

Its 5%.

They believe that unemployment below that number causes inflation, and that unemployment above that number casues DEflation.

Much of their policy on setting rates is based on that theory.
 
"Why would the Fed ever want to make the economy grow more slowly or have fewer jobs? The answer is that the Fed worries that if too many people have jobs, or if it is too easy for workers to find jobs, there will be upward pressure on wages.

"More rapid wage growth can get translated into more rapidly rising prices — in other words, inflation. So the Fed often decides to raise interest rates to slow the economy and keep people out of work in order to keep inflation from increasing and eventually getting out of control.

"Most people probably do not realize that the Federal Reserve Board, an agency of the government, intervenes in the economy to prevent it from creating too many jobs.

"But there is even more to the story. When the Fed hits the brakes to slow job growth, it is not doctors, lawyers, and CEOs who end up without jobs.

"The people who lose are those in the middle and the bottom — sales clerks, factory workers, custodians, and dishwashers. These are the workers who don’t get hired or get laid off when the economy slows or goes into a recession.

The Conservative Nanny State
 
"Why would the Fed ever want to make the economy grow more slowly or have fewer jobs? The answer is that the Fed worries that if too many people have jobs, or if it is too easy for workers to find jobs, there will be upward pressure on wages.

"More rapid wage growth can get translated into more rapidly rising prices — in other words, inflation. So the Fed often decides to raise interest rates to slow the economy and keep people out of work in order to keep inflation from increasing and eventually getting out of control.

"Most people probably do not realize that the Federal Reserve Board, an agency of the government, intervenes in the economy to prevent it from creating too many jobs.

"But there is even more to the story. When the Fed hits the brakes to slow job growth, it is not doctors, lawyers, and CEOs who end up without jobs.

"The people who lose are those in the middle and the bottom — sales clerks, factory workers, custodians, and dishwashers. These are the workers who don’t get hired or get laid off when the economy slows or goes into a recession.

The Conservative Nanny State

This isn't correct. The Fed isn't concerned with rapidly rising wages. They are concerned with rapidly rising wages in the absence of productivity growth, particularly when profit margins are low. The Fed wants wages to rise when productivity is growing.
 
Is it true over the last thirty years US productivity has risen by 70% yet middle class wages adjusted for inflation have remained stagnant?

No it's not true. Real American wages have risen during that time. However, it is true that wages have lagged productivity growth. But that's different from saying the Fed doesn't want wages to rise.
 
Bush's 8 years of service?

7% unemployment average


Obama








9% after overspending 4 trillion borrowed from china for stimulus................with poor Black people at 25% unemployment



Democrats create gehttos
 
Only one state in history has lost more jobs in ten years than the US lost between 2000 - 2010:

The USSR in the last decade of its existence.

Republicans AND Democrats create poverty for the many and abundance for the few.
 
High enployment is certainly better for employers than low unemployment.

You guys are aware, aren't you, of the THEORY that there is a "Natural RATE of unemployment" that is thought (by the FED) to be the ideal unemployment rate.

Its 5%.

They believe that unemployment below that number causes inflation, and that unemployment above that number casues DEflation.

Much of their policy on setting rates is based on that theory.

"Natural Rate of Unemployment" seems to be around 5% as you say. Government laws & age of population effects this "Full Employment" goal.

Humphrey–Hawkins Full Employment Act set specific numerical goals. Unemployment rates should be not more than 3% for persons aged 20 or over and not more than 4% for persons aged 16 or over, and inflation rates should not be over 4%.

If private enterprise appears not to be meeting these goals, the Act expressly allows the government to create a "reservoir of public employment." These jobs are required to be in the lower ranges of skill and pay to minimize competition with the private sector.
 
Do you see hyperinflation coming to the US anytime soon?

What would happen if every $10 bill in the country transformed into a $5 within a few weeks?

Would the rich profit from that?

Hyperinflation is not coming to America.

Major inflation is coming over the long term. I don't believe we will have an overnight collapse or anything but the government will never be able to pay an interest rate on it's bonds that equals commodities inflation. Saudi prince Alwaleed Bin Talal is ok with our current economic stimulus spending rate as long as it results in full employment & a robust economy so we can pay the debt back. We certainly have him fooled. We need a hell of a lot of innovation to pull this economy out of the ditch & even way more to pay down any debt without the Feds printing press buying up debt.
What do you mean by "long term?"

Simon Johnson has written recently he thinks it's "unlikely" we'll see another crisis like 2008 in the next few years; however, it's "very likely" we'll see another such a crisis within 10 to 20 years.

Do you think major inflation will be used to neutralize our current levels of debt?
 
Is it true over the last thirty years US productivity has risen by 70% yet middle class wages adjusted for inflation have remained stagnant?

No it's not true. Real American wages have risen during that time. However, it is true that wages have lagged productivity growth. But that's different from saying the Fed doesn't want wages to rise.
The richest 10,000 Americans have seen the value of their assets rise 550% since 1978.

Has the Fed played a role?

At whose expense, those whose wages have lagged productivity growth?

America is 234 Years Old Today – Is It Finished? | Phil
 
"The unemployment crisis has been a godsend for America's superrich, who own the vast majority of financial assets - stocks, bonds, currency and commodities...

"America's labor market depression propels asset price appreciation. In the last two years, US corporate profits and share prices rose at the fastest pace in history - and the fastest in the G-7.

"Considering the source of profits, the soaring stock market appears less a beacon of prosperity than a reliable proxy for America's new misery index. Mark Whitehouse of The Wall Street Journal describes Obama's hamster wheel recovery:

"'From mid-2009 through the end of 2010, output per hour at U.S. nonfarm businesses rose 5.2% as companies found ways to squeeze more from their existing workers.

"'But the lion's share of that gain went to shareholders in the form of record profits, rather than to workers in the form of raises.

"'Hourly wages, adjusted for inflation, rose only 0.3%, according to the Labor Department. In other words, companies shared only 6% of productivity gains with their workers. That compares to 58% since records began in 1947.'"

"Out of work Americans deserve more than unemployment checks - they deserve dividends.

"The rich would never have recovered without them."

Why the Rich Love High Unemployment | Truthout

Who are the rich?
 
Is it true over the last thirty years US productivity has risen by 70% yet middle class wages adjusted for inflation have remained stagnant?

No it's not true. Real American wages have risen during that time. However, it is true that wages have lagged productivity growth. But that's different from saying the Fed doesn't want wages to rise.
The richest 10,000 Americans have seen the value of their assets rise 550% since 1978.

Has the Fed played a role?

At whose expense, those whose wages have lagged productivity growth?

America is 234 Years Old Today – Is It Finished? | Phil

Yes, the Fed has played a role in rising asset prices, but not in mediocre wage growth. This has occurred through much of the world, not just here. That's an outcome, not a biased policy of the Fed to help the rich by screwing everyone else. The Fed has no target or policy or preference for one class of people over another.
 
"Why would the Fed ever want to make the economy grow more slowly or have fewer jobs? The answer is that the Fed worries that if too many people have jobs, or if it is too easy for workers to find jobs, there will be upward pressure on wages.

"More rapid wage growth can get translated into more rapidly rising prices — in other words, inflation. So the Fed often decides to raise interest rates to slow the economy and keep people out of work in order to keep inflation from increasing and eventually getting out of control.

"Most people probably do not realize that the Federal Reserve Board, an agency of the government, intervenes in the economy to prevent it from creating too many jobs.

"But there is even more to the story. When the Fed hits the brakes to slow job growth, it is not doctors, lawyers, and CEOs who end up without jobs.

"The people who lose are those in the middle and the bottom — sales clerks, factory workers, custodians, and dishwashers. These are the workers who don’t get hired or get laid off when the economy slows or goes into a recession.

The Conservative Nanny State

This isn't correct. The Fed isn't concerned with rapidly rising wages. They are concerned with rapidly rising wages in the absence of productivity growth, particularly when profit margins are low. The Fed wants wages to rise when productivity is growing.

GP was partially correct.

Your post simply makes his POV even MORE correct.

You guys (and I) seem to be in AGREEMENT.
 
"The unemployment crisis has been a godsend for America's superrich, who own the vast majority of financial assets - stocks, bonds, currency and commodities...

"America's labor market depression propels asset price appreciation. In the last two years, US corporate profits and share prices rose at the fastest pace in history - and the fastest in the G-7.

"Considering the source of profits, the soaring stock market appears less a beacon of prosperity than a reliable proxy for America's new misery index. Mark Whitehouse of The Wall Street Journal describes Obama's hamster wheel recovery:

"'From mid-2009 through the end of 2010, output per hour at U.S. nonfarm businesses rose 5.2% as companies found ways to squeeze more from their existing workers.

"'But the lion's share of that gain went to shareholders in the form of record profits, rather than to workers in the form of raises.

"'Hourly wages, adjusted for inflation, rose only 0.3%, according to the Labor Department. In other words, companies shared only 6% of productivity gains with their workers. That compares to 58% since records began in 1947.'"

"Out of work Americans deserve more than unemployment checks - they deserve dividends.

"The rich would never have recovered without them."

Why the Rich Love High Unemployment | Truthout

Who are the rich?

EXCELLENT question. Warrior.

The problem with the GENERALIZATION that this thread starts out with is the problem with all generealizations.

They only approximate (more or less) reality.

In this case, for example, I point out examples of how one set of RICH might like unemployment, while another set of RICH will NOT like it.
 
"The unemployment crisis has been a godsend for America's superrich, who own the vast majority of financial assets - stocks, bonds, currency and commodities...

"America's labor market depression propels asset price appreciation. In the last two years, US corporate profits and share prices rose at the fastest pace in history - and the fastest in the G-7.

"Considering the source of profits, the soaring stock market appears less a beacon of prosperity than a reliable proxy for America's new misery index. Mark Whitehouse of The Wall Street Journal describes Obama's hamster wheel recovery:

"'From mid-2009 through the end of 2010, output per hour at U.S. nonfarm businesses rose 5.2% as companies found ways to squeeze more from their existing workers.

"'But the lion's share of that gain went to shareholders in the form of record profits, rather than to workers in the form of raises.

"'Hourly wages, adjusted for inflation, rose only 0.3%, according to the Labor Department. In other words, companies shared only 6% of productivity gains with their workers. That compares to 58% since records began in 1947.'"

"Out of work Americans deserve more than unemployment checks - they deserve dividends.

"The rich would never have recovered without them."

Why the Rich Love High Unemployment | Truthout

Who are the rich?
As far as mortal citizens are concerned the rich are the top 10,000 income earners in the US.
Those with a median annual income of $50,000,000.
With assets averaging $350,000,000.
And paying taxes at about a 20% rate.

Warren Buffet mentioned these folks a few years ago at a Hillard Clinton fundraiser by pointing out he pays taxes at 17% while his secretary pays 32% of her income in taxes.

"It got a little attention at the time but then was swept under the rug – as if that didn’t matter.

"But it DOES MATTER and it matters a lot – the life of this country depends on it!

"If this were just a case of 10,000 people not paying $100Bn in taxes, maybe we could move on and forget it but it’s not. US corporations, who are (according to to the Supreme Court) also citizens of this country, paid just $300Bn in taxes last year on $6 TRILLION in income (5%).

"That’s right, if US corporations simply paid the same amount of tax as Mr. Buffett – that would, by itself, be enough to wipe out our deficit. But, things have gone decidedly the other way in the past 30 years:..."

America is 234 Years Old Today – Is It Finished? | Phil
 
Yes, the Fed has played a role in rising asset prices, but not in mediocre wage growth. This has occurred through much of the world, not just here. That's an outcome, not a biased policy of the Fed to help the rich by screwing everyone else. The Fed has no target or policy or preference for one class of people over another.

Are you sure the Fed is not biased towards the rich?

I mean the Fed is controlled by the rich. They live, associate & work with the rich. If anyone ever lived entirely in a disconnected affluent bubble it would be the Fed & their associates. Do you think they would operate in a way that would take away from themselves & give to the lower classes?

Just having advanced knowledge of the Feds moves can make nearly anyone very wealthy.
 

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