The reason democrats use identity politics.

[oldsoul]

The Regressives here have all decided that there's no such thing as Identity Politics, of course. Great.

All politics are identity politics. Trump ran a campaign of identity politics.

So, if my politics are such that I believe everyone should have the right to "keep and bear arms", the identity is what? Human?

 

[rightwinger]

If you fight for the rights of gays....you have to identify them as gays
If you fight for women.....you have to identify them as women
If you fight for the rights of blacks or Hispanics....you have to identify them as blacks and hispanics

But if you fight for the rights of EVERYONE, everyone wins, and NO ONE has their rights usurped. Why must one fight ONLY for the rights of this group or that one? Why is the fight not to protect the rights of EVERYONE?
Answer: That does not drum up EMOTIONAL responses.

It is logical, it is FAIR, and it is RIGHT, to fight for EVERYONE'S rights.

Doesn't work like that
Public policy does not affect everyone in the same way

A policy to help the old will cost the young
Helping the rich will come at the expense of the poor

Assuming a Zero sum.... I'll go with it though. If I exercise my right to free speech, for example, someone else has, by definition, been denied their right. Is that how it works?

Of course not
Why do conservatives suck at analogies?

 

[oldsoul]

If you fight for the rights of gays....you have to identify them as gays
If you fight for women.....you have to identify them as women
If you fight for the rights of blacks or Hispanics....you have to identify them as blacks and hispanics

But if you fight for the rights of EVERYONE, everyone wins, and NO ONE has their rights usurped. Why must one fight ONLY for the rights of this group or that one? Why is the fight not to protect the rights of EVERYONE?
Answer: That does not drum up EMOTIONAL responses.

It is logical, it is FAIR, and it is RIGHT, to fight for EVERYONE'S rights.

Doesn't work like that
Public policy does not affect everyone in the same way

A policy to help the old will cost the young
Helping the rich will come at the expense of the poor

Assuming a Zero sum.... I'll go with it though. If I exercise my right to free speech, for example, someone else has, by definition, been denied their right. Is that how it works?

Of course not
Why do conservatives suck at analogies?

Then maybe you can clear things up a bit. I said that if you fight for everyone's rights, everyone wins. You said it doesn't work that way. How have I gotten this wrong?

 

[Tehon]

The Regressives here have all decided that there's no such thing as Identity Politics, of course. Great.

All politics are identity politics. Trump ran a campaign of identity politics.

So, if my politics are such that I believe everyone should have the right to "keep and bear arms", the identity is what? Human?

I don't think so. You would identify with like minded people. Like the NRA perhaps.

 

[rightwinger]

If you fight for the rights of gays....you have to identify them as gays
If you fight for women.....you have to identify them as women
If you fight for the rights of blacks or Hispanics....you have to identify them as blacks and hispanics

But if you fight for the rights of EVERYONE, everyone wins, and NO ONE has their rights usurped. Why must one fight ONLY for the rights of this group or that one? Why is the fight not to protect the rights of EVERYONE?
Answer: That does not drum up EMOTIONAL responses.

It is logical, it is FAIR, and it is RIGHT, to fight for EVERYONE'S rights.

Doesn't work like that
Public policy does not affect everyone in the same way

A policy to help the old will cost the young
Helping the rich will come at the expense of the poor

Assuming a Zero sum.... I'll go with it though. If I exercise my right to free speech, for example, someone else has, by definition, been denied their right. Is that how it works?

Of course not
Why do conservatives suck at analogies?

Then maybe you can clear things up a bit. I said that if you fight for everyone's rights, everyone wins. You said it doesn't work that way. How have I gotten this wrong?

Our rights are established in the Constitution and our laws
Everything else is public policy....taxes, expenditures on schools, military, healthcare, infrastructure, subsidies
All help some more than others

If we build more schools....it helps those who are raising children more than those without kids

What you call identity politics

 

[Valerie]

the fault lies with religious nutjobs who've hijacked the rethuglican party with their ongoing "identity" AGENDA.

 

[Mac1958]

It's the politics of division.

It has always been successful for them, dividing relationships into their "Oppressed/Oppressor" template:

Oppressed/Oppressor
Blacks/Whites
Hispanics/Whites
The World/America
Muslims/Christians
Gays, Etc./Straights
Women/Men
Earth/Humans
Poor/Rich
Employee/Employer
Unsuccessful/Successful

On and on, dividing each Oppressed group into its own subset grievance category.

And, as the actual liberal author in Post 4 points out: "You end up with Gender Theory, you end up with Race theory, you end up with Feminist Theory, and you end up now with maybe three generations of young people, liberal elites, who've been brought up in the universities to think about politics in terms of the group and their own individual identities, rather than the common good and a message that might bind us together as a nation."
.

 

[Mac1958]

Another traditional liberal:
.

 

[Tehon]

Another traditional liberal:
.

Can you provide an example of an oppressed group oppressing another less oppressed group?

 

[Theowl32]

the fault lies with religious nutjobs who've hijacked the rethuglican party with their ongoing "identity" AGENDA.

lol.

You are really really dumb. With all due disrespect. They cannot help themselves. They do not even know when they are doing it.

 

[oldsoul]

The Regressives here have all decided that there's no such thing as Identity Politics, of course. Great.

All politics are identity politics. Trump ran a campaign of identity politics.

So, if my politics are such that I believe everyone should have the right to "keep and bear arms", the identity is what? Human?

I don't think so. You would identify with like minded people. Like the NRA perhaps.

I think we are having two separate debates here.

 

[oldsoul]

But if you fight for the rights of EVERYONE, everyone wins, and NO ONE has their rights usurped. Why must one fight ONLY for the rights of this group or that one? Why is the fight not to protect the rights of EVERYONE?
Answer: That does not drum up EMOTIONAL responses.

It is logical, it is FAIR, and it is RIGHT, to fight for EVERYONE'S rights.

Doesn't work like that
Public policy does not affect everyone in the same way

A policy to help the old will cost the young
Helping the rich will come at the expense of the poor

Assuming a Zero sum.... I'll go with it though. If I exercise my right to free speech, for example, someone else has, by definition, been denied their right. Is that how it works?

Of course not
Why do conservatives suck at analogies?

Then maybe you can clear things up a bit. I said that if you fight for everyone's rights, everyone wins. You said it doesn't work that way. How have I gotten this wrong?

Our rights are established in the Constitution and our laws
Everything else is public policy....taxes, expenditures on schools, military, healthcare, infrastructure, subsidies
All help some more than others

If we build more schools....it helps those who are raising children more than those without kids

What you call identity politics

Our rights are established in the Constitution and our laws

I see it differently. Let me reword to demonstrate the difference:

Our rights are guaranteed by the constitution, which is the basis for our laws.

I trust you see the difference. It may seem trivial to some, but it is an important distinction to make. Your statement would lead one to believe that our rights come from government. My statement would lead one to believe that our rights come from somewhere else (ie. a higher authority, or God to some), and are only upheld (guaranteed) by the constitution. Furthermore, our rights are not established by any law, only clarified (at most) by them.

 

[Mac1958]

Another traditional liberal:
.

Can you provide an example of an oppressed group oppressing another less oppressed group?

Well, that's easy.

Oppressor from Oppressed Group/Oppressed, Acceptable to Oppress the Oppressor
Ann Coulter/Any Oppressed group she criticizes
Milo/Any Oppressed group he criticizes
Clarence Thomas/Any Oppressed group he criticizes
Any minority Christian/Muslim
Any female Christian/Muslim
Any poor Christian/Muslim

That'll do, since I know I'm wasting my time anyway. Rubin merely pointing out that there is a pecking order within the various grievance groups, and it is situational. That part of his argument isn't a high priority for me, but I do agree with it.
.

 

[oldsoul]

the fault lies with religious nutjobs who've hijacked the rethuglican party with their ongoing "identity" AGENDA.

I wonder, how does your post lend itself to your quote from Mr, Roosevelt?
I do not disagree that you bring up an important PART of the problem. It is not, however, the whole problem. Can you name a problem that comes from the other "side" of the political spectrum?
If you cannot, then you are just as much a part of the problem as the "religious right" zealots and extremists.

 

[Tehon]

The Regressives here have all decided that there's no such thing as Identity Politics, of course. Great.

All politics are identity politics. Trump ran a campaign of identity politics.

So, if my politics are such that I believe everyone should have the right to "keep and bear arms", the identity is what? Human?

I don't think so. You would identify with like minded people. Like the NRA perhaps.

I think we are having two separate debates here.

Sorry, I was preoccupied, I see your point now and it is valid.

So if I believe everyone has a right to get married regardless of sexual orientation I identify as what, human?

 

[oldsoul]

The Regressives here have all decided that there's no such thing as Identity Politics, of course. Great.

All politics are identity politics. Trump ran a campaign of identity politics.

So, if my politics are such that I believe everyone should have the right to "keep and bear arms", the identity is what? Human?

I don't think so. You would identify with like minded people. Like the NRA perhaps.

I think we are having two separate debates here.

Sorry, I was preoccupied, I see your point now and it is valid.

So if I believe everyone has a right to get married regardless of sexual orientation I identify as what, human?

I would suppose so, though you may be AI for all I know. LOL

 

[bripat9643]

Dems defend those who are getting a raw deal in society

If that means identifying who they are....so be it

White males are the ones getting the raw deal.

 

[bripat9643]

The Regressives here have all decided that there's no such thing as Identity Politics, of course. Great.

All politics are identity politics. Trump ran a campaign of identity politics.

So, if my politics are such that I believe everyone should have the right to "keep and bear arms", the identity is what? Human?

I don't think so. You would identify with like minded people. Like the NRA perhaps.

I think we are having two separate debates here.

Sorry, I was preoccupied, I see your point now and it is valid.

So if I believe everyone has a right to get married regardless of sexual orientation I identify as what, human?

You identify is an irrational hypocrite.

 

[bripat9643]

All politics are identity politics. Trump ran a campaign of identity politics.

So, if my politics are such that I believe everyone should have the right to "keep and bear arms", the identity is what? Human?

I don't think so. You would identify with like minded people. Like the NRA perhaps.

I think we are having two separate debates here.

Sorry, I was preoccupied, I see your point now and it is valid.

So if I believe everyone has a right to get married regardless of sexual orientation I identify as what, human?

I would suppose so, though you may be AI for all I know. LOL

No, the "Intelligence" part of AI would rule him out.

 

[Tehon]

All politics are identity politics. Trump ran a campaign of identity politics.

So, if my politics are such that I believe everyone should have the right to "keep and bear arms", the identity is what? Human?

I don't think so. You would identify with like minded people. Like the NRA perhaps.

I think we are having two separate debates here.

Sorry, I was preoccupied, I see your point now and it is valid.

So if I believe everyone has a right to get married regardless of sexual orientation I identify as what, human?

You identify is an irrational hypocrite.

How so?