Zone1 The Reason Catholicism Doesn't Make Sense These Days

[nomadic5]

This thread is not for those out there who say (sincerely or out of malice) that it never did make sense; I mostly want to hear from Catholics or those who are not anti-Catholic.

The reason Catholicism doesn't make sense today is that in 1958 when Pope Pius XII died (and possibly slightly before then?) nasty people who wanted to control and distort the teaching authority of the Church (because they wanted to be free to do whatever they want with no big, powerful Church hindering them in any way) took over. It's a long, convoluted (fascinating) story that involves financial issues like the Vatican Bank, etc) but what I was wanting to focus on here is the papacy, something Satan himself has always wanted to focus on, so as to destroy.

Going back to the Beginning: Jesus prayed that Peter's faith would not fail and that "once... converted" he would "confirm" His fellow Apostles (the first bishops).

The papacy is protected by God and cannot fail because of this prayer Jesus said concerning Peter, the First Pope.

You have to also know that I--OP writer--am a Sedevacantist, one who believes that the Chair of St Peter is vacant, meaning that Francis is NOT the pope. A true pope has the "charism" given to him by Jesus Christ Himself through St Peter, a charism that keeps him from defying in any way orthodox, centuries-held Doctrine, aka Objective Moral Truth. Obviously, Francis does not have that charism, which proves he is NOT pope... so Catholics need to stop calling him that.

I have been researching the Sedevacantist position, and do not call myself such lightly. I have also read the entire Bible (Douay Rheims). I have also done other research, have been Catholic (or "catholic") all my life (though not really, when very young...).

I don't have the book of Daniel in front of me but maybe these words that I do have in front of me at this time are from Daniel (?). I forgot to write down the Scripture passage.

OK, most of these words, I just found out, are from Thessalonians (The 7th through 9th chapters of Daniel contain prophesy on the end times).


[emphasis mine]

"Unless there come a revolt first and the man of sin be revealed.. who opposes and is lifted above all that is... God... so that he sitteth in the temple of God showing himself as if he were God... the mystery of iniquity already at work... [against?] he who now holdeth [Godly office, the Papacy] do hold, until he [the true pope] be taken out of the way [Again, this has already happened, in 1958 with the death of Pius II, the last valid pope]. And then the wicked one shall be revealed whom the Lord shall kill with the spirit of his mouth... shall destroy with the brightness of His Coming him whose coming is according to the working of Satan, in all power and signs and lying wonders and in all seduction of iniquity to them that perish [eternally] because they receive not the love of the Truth, that they might be saved. Therefore God shall send them the operation of error to believe lying... who have not believed Truth... [and have] consented to iniquity" (2 Thessalonians 2:3).

This above was a subject addressed by a Cardinal Manning decades ago, based on Scripture and the Early Church Fathers.

The following may be his words. All I know is they are not mine but I wrote them down, forgetting to find out who said them

"Concerning the mystery of iniquity [sin]: There will be a perpetual hindrance... to its full manifestation... [T]his wicked one will be a lawless person who shall introduce discord, sedition, tumult and revolution both in the temporal (things pertaining to this world) and spiritual order of the world... his Antagonist [being] the principles of order... the law... the authority of Truth and Right."

Where have we seen that scenario before?

 

[Esdraelon]

"Unless there come a revolt first and the man of sin be revealed.. who opposes and is lifted above all that is... God... so that he sitteth in the temple of God showing himself as if he were God

Speaking as a protestant, raised a Baptist but do not attend church currently, were you aware that that verse is believed to speak of the anti-Christ? Are you applying it to a "false" Pope? Needless to say there have been many down the years and continuing today who think the catholic church IS this beast written of in the book of Revelation. I don't believe that at all. I think this entity is yet to appear. I also believe that Christians will know him once he comes on the scene. He will come at a time of great turmoil and he will make peace and be loved for it.

 

[nomadic5]

Speaking as a protestant, raised a Baptist but do not attend church currently, were you aware that that verse is believed to speak of the anti-Christ? Are you applying it to a "false" Pope? Needless to say there have been many down the years and continuing today who think the catholic church IS this beast written of in the book of Revelation. I don't believe that at all. I think this entity is yet to appear. I also believe that Christians will know him once he comes on the scene. He will come at a time of great turmoil and he will make peace and be loved for it.

Even I, as a Catholic (years ago), once thought that the antiChrist would be a Catholic pope but then I studied what the CC actually teaches (historically, that is) about the papacy, some of which information is in OP. If Christ gave to Peter, who gave to his successor popes the charism to never go against Christ's doctrines, then there is no way at all that the REAL Pope could be Anti-Christ

This is one reason I am a Sedevacantist: The belief that the Chair of Peter is empty is the only position that makes sense whatsoever because Francis is NOT teaching or preaching orthodox Christian doctrines, to say the least. He is obviously not Catholic, not a Christian at all. A true Christian would never "excommunicate" a pro life priest like Fr Frank Pavone, for one thing (which means Fr Pavone is NOT excommunicated at all)... a true pope would not say such immoral things as: Those living in sin can receive the Holy Eucharist! And I could go on and on.

The Chair of St Peter (the Papacy) has been vacant since 1958. Even toward the end of Pius XII papacy (before 1958), there were peculiar shenanigans going on and I sometimes wonder if he was threatened somehow by the liberals in the Church who wanted to liberalize Catholic teaching (meaning, they wanted to destroy the Church... infiltrators). His death was odd. He had stomach pains in the last few months of his life and i don't think there has been an autopsy of a pope since... well, I can't say I am sure about that but most modern popes, I am fairly certain, have NOT had autopsies. That by itself is odd. There should always be an autopsy, esp when there are "peculiarities"

Anyway, it is amazing all by itself how little Catholics know about such things. i myself had to delve into matters myself, since most priests clam up when you bring up Vatican II and related issues.

 

[surada]

Speaking as a protestant, raised a Baptist but do not attend church currently, were you aware that that verse is believed to speak of the anti-Christ? Are you applying it to a "false" Pope? Needless to say there have been many down the years and continuing today who think the catholic church IS this beast written of in the book of Revelation. I don't believe that at all. I think this entity is yet to appear. I also believe that Christians will know him once he comes on the scene. He will come at a time of great turmoil and he will make peace and be loved for it.

Nero and then Domitian were the Beast..

 

[cnm]

a true pope would not say such immoral things as: Those living in sin can receive the Holy Eucharist!

He'd probably say something like: Those without sin cast the first stone!

 

[Innocynioc]

Yawn!

 

[nomadic5]

He'd probably say something like: Those without sin cast the first stone!

probably not. Scripture does not seem to be his strong suit

and it has nothing to do with judging. 1 Cor 11:23 says not to receive unworthily

 

[cnm]

probably not. Scripture does not seem to be his strong suit

and it has nothing to do with judging. 1 Cor 11:23 says not to receive unworthily

Oh. Is that what Jesus said?

 

[cnm]

and it has nothing to do with judging. 1 Cor 11:23 says not to receive unworthily

One has to be judged unworthy, Shirley?

 

[nomadic5]

One has to be judged unworthy, Shirley?

You are obviously anti Catholic so why are you here?

 

[notmyfault2020]

Ditto the OP

Catholics are beginning to see this, that things went seriously awry at Vatican II.

Pretty soon there won't be any people alive anymore who lived in the pre-Vatican II years. Satan likes THAT, for sure.

Well, for those of us who study these things, we don' have to have lived in that time period. thank God for BOOKS.

Thank God for Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre. . and all those who followed him and not the liars and anti-Christs of the Vatican II takeover

 

[Zebra]

Yawn!

why.?

 

[surada]

Speaking as a protestant, raised a Baptist but do not attend church currently, were you aware that that verse is believed to speak of the anti-Christ? Are you applying it to a "false" Pope? Needless to say there have been many down the years and continuing today who think the catholic church IS this beast written of in the book of Revelation. I don't believe that at all. I think this entity is yet to appear. I also believe that Christians will know him once he comes on the scene. He will come at a time of great turmoil and he will make peace and be loved for it.

Nope. The beast in Revelation is Nero or Domitian.

You've been sidetracked. Martin Luther fell out with Rome so he promoted the change.

 

[Flash]

We Lutherans thought Catholicism didn't make sense 500 years ago.

 

[Votar Roja]

The Reason Catholicism Doesn't Make Sense These Days

This thread is despicable. Just because YOU don't have the intelligence level to really understand Catholic Systematic Theology does NOT mean that it does not make sense.

 

[nomadic5]

Catholicism hasn't made sense to those outside the Church for a LONG time, namely about 500 centuries. It was 500 centuries ago that Luther posted his Thesis, based on a total misrepresentation of Catholic teaching. The Church accepted 41 of his 95 Thesis, leaving a slight majority as HERESY.

And heresy (false beliefs like OnceSavedAlwaysSaved, e tc..) have been influencing Christianity EVER SINCE. The protestants pushed and pushed and got Catholicism relegated in most countries to the wood shed. Now today we have abortion on demand.. MANDATORY, forced abortion in China.. we have transexuals trying to force children into that sick lifestyle. We have the current Admin that opens the doors of our country to just anyone, whether criminal or not..

Thank you, Protestantism

 

[nomadic5]

He'd probably say something like: Those without sin cast the first stone!

Jesus said

Sin no more

So much for your loose interpretations

 

[Libby von H]

This thread is not for those out there who say (sincerely or out of malice) that it never did make sense; I mostly want to hear from Catholics or those who are not anti-Catholic.

The reason Catholicism doesn't make sense today is that in 1958 when Pope Pius XII died (and possibly slightly before then?) nasty people who wanted to control and distort the teaching authority of the Church (because they wanted to be free to do whatever they want with no big, powerful Church hindering them in any way) took over. It's a long, convoluted (fascinating) story that involves financial issues like the Vatican Bank, etc) but what I was wanting to focus on here is the papacy, something Satan himself has always wanted to focus on, so as to destroy.

Going back to the Beginning: Jesus prayed that Peter's faith would not fail and that "once... converted" he would "confirm" His fellow Apostles (the first bishops).

The papacy is protected by God and cannot fail because of this prayer Jesus said concerning Peter, the First Pope.

You have to also know that I--OP writer--am a Sedevacantist, one who believes that the Chair of St Peter is vacant, meaning that Francis is NOT the pope. A true pope has the "charism" given to him by Jesus Christ Himself through St Peter, a charism that keeps him from defying in any way orthodox, centuries-held Doctrine, aka Objective Moral Truth. Obviously, Francis does not have that charism, which proves he is NOT pope... so Catholics need to stop calling him that.

I have been researching the Sedevacantist position, and do not call myself such lightly. I have also read the entire Bible (Douay Rheims). I have also done other research, have been Catholic (or "catholic") all my life (though not really, when very young...).

I don't have the book of Daniel in front of me but maybe these words that I do have in front of me at this time are from Daniel (?). I forgot to write down the Scripture passage.

OK, most of these words, I just found out, are from Thessalonians (The 7th through 9th chapters of Daniel contain prophesy on the end times).


[emphasis mine]

"Unless there come a revolt first and the man of sin be revealed.. who opposes and is lifted above all that is... God... so that he sitteth in the temple of God showing himself as if he were God... the mystery of iniquity already at work... [against?] he who now holdeth [Godly office, the Papacy] do hold, until he [the true pope] be taken out of the way [Again, this has already happened, in 1958 with the death of Pius II, the last valid pope]. And then the wicked one shall be revealed whom the Lord shall kill with the spirit of his mouth... shall destroy with the brightness of His Coming him whose coming is according to the working of Satan, in all power and signs and lying wonders and in all seduction of iniquity to them that perish [eternally] because they receive not the love of the Truth, that they might be saved. Therefore God shall send them the operation of error to believe lying... who have not believed Truth... [and have] consented to iniquity" (2 Thessalonians 2:3).

This above was a subject addressed by a Cardinal Manning decades ago, based on Scripture and the Early Church Fathers.

The following may be his words. All I know is they are not mine but I wrote them down, forgetting to find out who said them

"Concerning the mystery of iniquity [sin]: There will be a perpetual hindrance... to its full manifestation... [T]his wicked one will be a lawless person who shall introduce discord, sedition, tumult and revolution both in the temporal (things pertaining to this world) and spiritual order of the world... his Antagonist [being] the principles of order... the law... the authority of Truth and Right."

Where have we seen that scenario before?

IF you are a sedevacantist, that makes you a Pope, and you aren't the Pope.