The Politics of the "Abortion" Word Games

[Carib Gyal]

narcissists imagine laws are all about their perceptions of them...

Wanna change the topic now? Ignorance imagines laws should be administered unequally. Can you say John Crow?

it is the OP who wants to change the abortion 'topic' and play 'word games' ...


The Politics of the "Abortion" Word Games

The real question is what does it mean to be 'human'?

And you want to change the topic to narcissists and their perceptions of law. Perhaps you could make a thread.

 

[PoliticalChic]

narcissists imagine laws are all about their perceptions of them...

Wanna change the topic now? Ignorance imagines laws should be administered unequally. Can you say John Crow?

it is the OP who wants to change the abortion 'topic' and play 'word games' ...


The Politics of the "Abortion" Word Games

The real question is what does it mean to be 'human'?

Aha!

So you're claiming ignorance....you couldn't understand the OP????

Well....that does explain your posts, simple.

 

[Valerie]

what do you want, the government to have jurisdiction in regulating your every sperm..?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Is there ANYONE here who thinks that all abortion should be made a crime of homicide?

See?

They just want to CALL it murder, they don't want to make it murder.

 

[Skylar]

1. 1. If one accepts this divided concept of human nature, i.e., person, and body, this aligns one with the liberal political view, which rejects moral limits on desire as a violation of its liberty.

You seem to misunderstand the liberal political view. Liberals don't reject moral limits. They reject the idea that you, Political Chic, define what moral limits are.

Your misconception is rooted in your belief in an absolute moral code. Where you conceive what you believe to the the only true morality, and objective truth. Thus, per your reasoning, the rejection of you as an infallible moral arbiter is a rejection of morality itself.

The obvious problem with that reasoning being......you're not an infallible moral arbiter. Your personal beliefs don't define any objective moral system. And just because you believe something to be true doesn't mean it is, your nested assumptions not withstanding.

Your perspective requires the assumptions
1) There is a singular, objective moral code for all situations
2) That you could understand such a code if it existed
3) that you do understand that code
4) that you have the insight and information to apply that code accurately
5) anything that violates the objective moral code should be criminally prohibited

If any one of those assumptions is invalid, then your perspective on abortion is invalid. If any of those assumptions are invalid, all dependent assumptions that follow it are invalid.

And I think its reasonable for principled, thinking people to doubt that the validity of your assumptions. Individually, or together.

"Your misconception is rooted in your belief in an absolute moral code."

I mention ' moral relativity, self-determined morality, and 'if it feels good, do it,' and a dunce comes up to prove it.

Laughing....notice you don't actually disagree with anything I said. Nor could you. You don't have anything to cut and paste that addresses it. Consequently, you have nothing to say.

And thus you demonstrate once again the difference between repeating......and reasoning.

 

[Carib Gyal]

what do you want, the government to have jurisdiction in regulating your every sperm..?

I want you to answer my questions.

 

[PoliticalChic]

1. 1. If one accepts this divided concept of human nature, i.e., person, and body, this aligns one with the liberal political view, which rejects moral limits on desire as a violation of its liberty.

You seem to misunderstand the liberal political view. Liberals don't reject moral limits. They reject the idea that you, Political Chic, define what moral limits are.

Your misconception is rooted in your belief in an absolute moral code. Where you conceive what you believe to the the only true morality, and objective truth. Thus, per your reasoning, the rejection of you as an infallible moral arbiter is a rejection of morality itself.

The obvious problem with that reasoning being......you're not an infallible moral arbiter. Your personal beliefs don't define any objective moral system. And just because you believe something to be true doesn't mean it is, your nested assumptions not withstanding.

Your perspective requires the assumptions
1) There is a singular, objective moral code for all situations
2) That you could understand such a code if it existed
3) that you do understand that code
4) that you have the insight and information to apply that code accurately
5) anything that violates the objective moral code should be criminally prohibited

If any one of those assumptions is invalid, then your perspective on abortion is invalid. If any of those assumptions are invalid, all dependent assumptions that follow it are invalid.

And I think its reasonable for principled, thinking people to doubt that the validity of your assumptions. Individually, or together.

"Your misconception is rooted in your belief in an absolute moral code."

I mention ' moral relativity, self-determined morality, and 'if it feels good, do it,' and a dunce comes up to prove it.

Laughing....notice you don't actually disagree with anything I said. Nor could you. You don't have anything to cut and paste that addresses it. Consequently, you have nothing to say.

And thus you demonstrate once again the difference between repeating......and reasoning.

You didn't understand that I put you in your place?

You dunce.

 

[PoliticalChic]

4. On the topic of "human beings no different from machines," that is, the view of the Left, the abortion on demand folks, J.R.R, Tolkien had an interesting view of the machine analogy.


"To Tolkien, the machine is something far more menacing than a mere mechanical device. Fundamentally, it represents the lust for power – in particular, for power over others. The evil lord Sauron wants the one ring more than anything and is willing to stop at nothing to get it precisely because it will enable him to exert absolute control. The ring is machine par excellence, the device that will enable its possessor to establish absolute tyranny over every other living creature. It is not a means of liberation but a tool of coercion, domination, and enslavement. As the British historian Lord Acton would have warned, the power of the ring not only corrupts but corrupts absolutely." MercatorNet Tolkien and the machine


As the OP began with a reference to the views of Liberals/Progressives/Democrats, Tolkien's interpretation of the 'machine' view fits perfectly with For Liberals/Progressives/Democrat's totalitarian aspirations.

 

[Valerie]

"Liberals/Progressives/Democrat's totalitarian aspirations."



^








In a 7-2 decision written by Justice Harry Blackmun (who was chosen because of his prior experience as counsel to the Mayo Clinic), the Court ruled that the Texas statute violated Jane Roe's constitutional right to privacy. The Court argued that the Constitution's First, Fourth, Ninth, and Fourteenth Amendments protect an individual's "zone of privacy" against state laws...

...

Harry Andrew Blackmun was raised in a working-class neighborhood of St. Paul, Minnesota, where his father ran a general store. He was an excellent student, and one of his childhood friends was Warren Burger, chief justice (1969-1986). Blackmun attended Harvard College on scholarship, graduating in 1929 summa cum laude in mathematics. He went on to Harvard Law School, where he got his degree in 1932. For two years Blackmun clerked with Judge John B. Sanborn of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Eighth Circuit. He entered private practice with a Minneapolis firm in 1934 and remained with it for years, dealing with such issues as taxation, civil litigation, and trusts and estates.

In 1950 Blackmun became general counsel to the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minnesota, serving until 1959, when President Dwight Eisenhower appointed him to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Eighth Circuit. In 1970 President Richard Nixon nominated him to the Supreme Court. A lifelong Republican, unassuming and intelligent, Blackmun had a reputation as hardworking and conservative.

The Supreme Court . Expanding Civil Rights . Biographies of the Robes . Harry Andrew Blackmun PBS

 

[Valerie]

what do you want, the government to have jurisdiction in regulating your every sperm..?

I want you to answer my questions.

would you consider regulating PCs every sperm progressive totalitarianism...?

 

[Uncensored2008]

I disagree.

Whether life begins at conception or not is of little impact on the abortion debate.

Here's why:

The American Medical Association defines the presence of life as the presence of heart and brain activity. This is a good, sound, scientific definition. It is the one used in declaring a person dead. If there is heart and brain activity, the patient is alive - no wiggle room.

So it would seem that this would satisfy the pro-abortion advocates, right?

Well, not so much. The heart is one of the earliest organs to develop, around 3 1/2 weeks gestation. The brain develops around 5 weeks. At 6 weeks, there is simply no question that both heart and brain activity are present. Most abortions occur at between 12 and 15 weeks.

The driving force behind abortion is money - it's a multi-billion dollar a year industry. No WAY the abortion industry is going to let scientific fact interfere with their profits.

Life begins too early to be profitable to the abortion industry - even though it does not begin at conception.

 

[Valerie]

"Liberals/Progressives/Democrat's totalitarian aspirations."



^








In a 7-2 decision written by Justice Harry Blackmun (who was chosen because of his prior experience as counsel to the Mayo Clinic), the Court ruled that the Texas statute violated Jane Roe's constitutional right to privacy. The Court argued that the Constitution's First, Fourth, Ninth, and Fourteenth Amendments protect an individual's "zone of privacy" against state laws...

...

Harry Andrew Blackmun was raised in a working-class neighborhood of St. Paul, Minnesota, where his father ran a general store. He was an excellent student, and one of his childhood friends was Warren Burger, chief justice (1969-1986). Blackmun attended Harvard College on scholarship, graduating in 1929 summa cum laude in mathematics. He went on to Harvard Law School, where he got his degree in 1932. For two years Blackmun clerked with Judge John B. Sanborn of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Eighth Circuit. He entered private practice with a Minneapolis firm in 1934 and remained with it for years, dealing with such issues as taxation, civil litigation, and trusts and estates.

In 1950 Blackmun became general counsel to the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minnesota, serving until 1959, when President Dwight Eisenhower appointed him to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Eighth Circuit. In 1970 President Richard Nixon nominated him to the Supreme Court. A lifelong Republican, unassuming and intelligent, Blackmun had a reputation as hardworking and conservative.

The Supreme Court . Expanding Civil Rights . Biographies of the Robes . Harry Andrew Blackmun PBS

"totalitarian state is a concept used by some political scientists in which the state holds total authority over the society and seeks to control all aspects of public and private life wherever possible." - wiki

 

[Dana7360]

Only Liberals/Progressives/Democrats have abortions.

Hey PC, is an IUD and the pill "infanticide"?

I've heard most abortions are actually chosen by conservative women. I don't know if it's true or not but it would be just like them. "Do as I say, not as I do."

Some of those conservative women have not one but TWO abortions.

Tenn. GOP congressman's wife had 2 abortions - Yahoo News

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

So....you'll assign your right to make a judgment to the same kind of folks who OK' Dred Scott?

You must be a Liberal, huh?

Within a few years after Dred Scott the country was in the Civil war and by 1866 the matter of Slavery was settled.

The Taney Court was Conservative.

You lying moron....every one of you tries to hide your evil by casting the word 'conservative ' around.

Taney made a deal with Buchanan that allowed Buchanan to become the 15th President.
Buchanan was a Democrat....and his deal with Taney was that of a pair of racists.

As were, and are, Democrats.

The Court ruled 7-2. Slave owners were Democrats and conservatives. The Northern Republicans were liberals.

Liar.

Jim Crow was an example of Democrat liberal big government in action.

Wrong. Jim Crow was conservatism giving businesses a choice to discriminate.

Jim Crow started in Illinois with the help of Herr Abraham Lincoln Uber Alles. His laws were emulated by Ohio and Indiana...long before the war. Know what you're talking about or STFU.

 

[DriftingSand]

Once again Don PoliticalSpice Quixote is on her futile crusade to tear down the wall of separation between church and state.

There is no such "wall, " you uneducated dunce.

The KKKer, Hugo Black, FDR's first Supreme Court nominee, inserted it and dopes like you believe that the concept was not anathema to the view of the Founders.

1. The First Amendment (Amendment I) to the United States Constitution prohibits the making of any law respecting an establishment of religion, impeding the free exercise of religion, abridging the freedom of speech, infringing on the freedom of the press, interfering with the right to peaceably assemble or prohibiting ... First Amendment to the United States Constitution

Once again PoliticalSpice exposes her woeful ignorance of American history.

The KKKer, Hugo Black, FDR's first Supreme Court nominee, inserted it and dopes like you believe that the concept was no anathema to the view of the Founders.

Try reading Thomas Jefferson's Letter to the Danbury Baptists.

Jefferson s Letter to the Danbury Baptists June 1998 - Library of Congress Information Bulletin

Gentlemen

The affectionate sentiments of esteem and approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful and zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, & in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more and more pleasing.

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.

I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection & blessing of the common father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves & your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem.

Th Jefferson​

Jan. 1. 1802.

It was Jefferson himself who first used the phrase to describe the intent of the 1st Amendment.

Once again you have made a fool of yourself!

Jefferson recognized America as a Christian nation but didn't believe that any particular denomination should be dominant over the others. That was one of the reasons why he broke from England. He was wholly opposed to any government regulating a person's right to religion:

Jefferson understood their concern; it was also his own. In fact, he made numerous declarations about the constitutional inability of the federal government to regulate, restrict, or interfere with religious expression. For example:

[N]o power over the freedom of religion . . . [is] delegated to the United States by the Constitution. Kentucky Resolution, 1798 [3]

In matters of religion, I have considered that its free exercise is placed by the Constitution independent of the powers of the general [federal] government. Second Inaugural Address, 1805 [4]

[O]ur excellent Constitution . . . has not placed our religious rights under the power of any public functionary. Letter to the Methodist Episcopal Church, 1808 [5]

I consider the government of the United States as interdicted [prohibited] by the Constitution from intermeddling with religious institutions . . . or exercises. Letter to Samuel Millar, 1808 [6]

WallBuilders - Issues and Articles - The Separation of Church and State

By the same token, Jefferson was responsible for using the halls of Congress for church services:

It is no exaggeration to say that on Sundays in Washington during the administrations of Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809) and of James Madison (1809-1817) the state became the church. Within a year of his inauguration, Jefferson began attending church services in the House of Representatives. Madison followed Jefferson's example, although unlike Jefferson, who rode on horseback to church in the Capitol, Madison came in a coach and four. Worship services in the House--a practice that continued until after the Civil War--were acceptable to Jefferson because they were nondiscriminatory and voluntary. Preachers of every Protestant denomination appeared. (Catholic priests began officiating in 1826.) As early as January 1806 a female evangelist, Dorothy Ripley, delivered a camp meeting-style exhortation in the House to Jefferson, Vice President Aaron Burr, and a "crowded audience." Throughout his administration Jefferson permitted church services in executive branch buildings. The Gospel was also preached in the Supreme Court chambers.

Religion and the Federal Government Part 2 - Religion and the Founding of the American Republic Exhibitions Library of Congress

The first Congress sponsored the first Bible printed in the USA:

Congress appointed chaplains for itself and the armed forces, sponsored the publication of a Bible, imposed Christian morality on the armed forces, and granted public lands to promote Christianity among the Indians. National days of thanksgiving and of "humiliation, fasting, and prayer" were proclaimed by Congress at least twice a year throughout the war. Congress was guided by "covenant theology," a Reformation doctrine especially dear to New England Puritans, which held that God bound himself in an agreement with a nation and its people. This agreement stipulated that they "should be prosperous or afflicted, according as their general Obedience or Disobedience thereto appears." Wars and revolutions were, accordingly, considered afflictions, as divine punishments for sin, from which a nation could rescue itself by repentance and reformation.

Religion and the Congress of the Confederation - Religion and the Founding of the American Republic Exhibitions Library of Congress

Are you joining PoliticalSpice in her crusade to tear down the wall of separation between church and state?

Yes or no?

Never has been a separation. You and others have embraced a misconception routinely spewed forth as "truth" in America's public FOOL system. The Constitution protects religious folks from government but government can be influenced by religion.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Once again Don PoliticalSpice Quixote is on her futile crusade to tear down the wall of separation between church and state.

There is no such "wall, " you uneducated dunce.

The KKKer, Hugo Black, FDR's first Supreme Court nominee, inserted it and dopes like you believe that the concept was not anathema to the view of the Founders.

1. The First Amendment (Amendment I) to the United States Constitution prohibits the making of any law respecting an establishment of religion, impeding the free exercise of religion, abridging the freedom of speech, infringing on the freedom of the press, interfering with the right to peaceably assemble or prohibiting ... First Amendment to the United States Constitution

Once again PoliticalSpice exposes her woeful ignorance of American history.

The KKKer, Hugo Black, FDR's first Supreme Court nominee, inserted it and dopes like you believe that the concept was no anathema to the view of the Founders.

Try reading Thomas Jefferson's Letter to the Danbury Baptists.

Jefferson s Letter to the Danbury Baptists June 1998 - Library of Congress Information Bulletin

Gentlemen

The affectionate sentiments of esteem and approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful and zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, & in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more and more pleasing.

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.

I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection & blessing of the common father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves & your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem.

Th Jefferson​

Jan. 1. 1802.

It was Jefferson himself who first used the phrase to describe the intent of the 1st Amendment.

Once again you have made a fool of yourself!

Jefferson recognized America as a Christian nation but didn't believe that any particular denomination should be dominant over the others. That was one of the reasons why he broke from England. He was wholly opposed to any government regulating a person's right to religion:

Jefferson understood their concern; it was also his own. In fact, he made numerous declarations about the constitutional inability of the federal government to regulate, restrict, or interfere with religious expression. For example:

[N]o power over the freedom of religion . . . [is] delegated to the United States by the Constitution. Kentucky Resolution, 1798 [3]

In matters of religion, I have considered that its free exercise is placed by the Constitution independent of the powers of the general [federal] government. Second Inaugural Address, 1805 [4]

[O]ur excellent Constitution . . . has not placed our religious rights under the power of any public functionary. Letter to the Methodist Episcopal Church, 1808 [5]

I consider the government of the United States as interdicted [prohibited] by the Constitution from intermeddling with religious institutions . . . or exercises. Letter to Samuel Millar, 1808 [6]

WallBuilders - Issues and Articles - The Separation of Church and State

By the same token, Jefferson was responsible for using the halls of Congress for church services:

It is no exaggeration to say that on Sundays in Washington during the administrations of Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809) and of James Madison (1809-1817) the state became the church. Within a year of his inauguration, Jefferson began attending church services in the House of Representatives. Madison followed Jefferson's example, although unlike Jefferson, who rode on horseback to church in the Capitol, Madison came in a coach and four. Worship services in the House--a practice that continued until after the Civil War--were acceptable to Jefferson because they were nondiscriminatory and voluntary. Preachers of every Protestant denomination appeared. (Catholic priests began officiating in 1826.) As early as January 1806 a female evangelist, Dorothy Ripley, delivered a camp meeting-style exhortation in the House to Jefferson, Vice President Aaron Burr, and a "crowded audience." Throughout his administration Jefferson permitted church services in executive branch buildings. The Gospel was also preached in the Supreme Court chambers.

Religion and the Federal Government Part 2 - Religion and the Founding of the American Republic Exhibitions Library of Congress

The first Congress sponsored the first Bible printed in the USA:

Congress appointed chaplains for itself and the armed forces, sponsored the publication of a Bible, imposed Christian morality on the armed forces, and granted public lands to promote Christianity among the Indians. National days of thanksgiving and of "humiliation, fasting, and prayer" were proclaimed by Congress at least twice a year throughout the war. Congress was guided by "covenant theology," a Reformation doctrine especially dear to New England Puritans, which held that God bound himself in an agreement with a nation and its people. This agreement stipulated that they "should be prosperous or afflicted, according as their general Obedience or Disobedience thereto appears." Wars and revolutions were, accordingly, considered afflictions, as divine punishments for sin, from which a nation could rescue itself by repentance and reformation.

Religion and the Congress of the Confederation - Religion and the Founding of the American Republic Exhibitions Library of Congress

Are you joining PoliticalSpice in her crusade to tear down the wall of separation between church and state?

Yes or no?

Never has been a separation. You and others have embraced a misconception routinely spewed forth as "truth" in America's public FOOL system. The Constitution protects religious folks from government but government can be influenced by religion.

If that is what you were taught when you were home schooled you should ask for your money back because it it utterly fallacious.

Religion doesn't get to dictate what a secular government does.

 

[DriftingSand]

There is no such "wall, " you uneducated dunce.

The KKKer, Hugo Black, FDR's first Supreme Court nominee, inserted it and dopes like you believe that the concept was not anathema to the view of the Founders.

1. The First Amendment (Amendment I) to the United States Constitution prohibits the making of any law respecting an establishment of religion, impeding the free exercise of religion, abridging the freedom of speech, infringing on the freedom of the press, interfering with the right to peaceably assemble or prohibiting ... First Amendment to the United States Constitution

Once again PoliticalSpice exposes her woeful ignorance of American history.

The KKKer, Hugo Black, FDR's first Supreme Court nominee, inserted it and dopes like you believe that the concept was no anathema to the view of the Founders.

Try reading Thomas Jefferson's Letter to the Danbury Baptists.

Jefferson s Letter to the Danbury Baptists June 1998 - Library of Congress Information Bulletin

Gentlemen

The affectionate sentiments of esteem and approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful and zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, & in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more and more pleasing.

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.

I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection & blessing of the common father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves & your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem.

Th Jefferson​

Jan. 1. 1802.

It was Jefferson himself who first used the phrase to describe the intent of the 1st Amendment.

Once again you have made a fool of yourself!

Jefferson recognized America as a Christian nation but didn't believe that any particular denomination should be dominant over the others. That was one of the reasons why he broke from England. He was wholly opposed to any government regulating a person's right to religion:

Jefferson understood their concern; it was also his own. In fact, he made numerous declarations about the constitutional inability of the federal government to regulate, restrict, or interfere with religious expression. For example:

[N]o power over the freedom of religion . . . [is] delegated to the United States by the Constitution. Kentucky Resolution, 1798 [3]

In matters of religion, I have considered that its free exercise is placed by the Constitution independent of the powers of the general [federal] government. Second Inaugural Address, 1805 [4]

[O]ur excellent Constitution . . . has not placed our religious rights under the power of any public functionary. Letter to the Methodist Episcopal Church, 1808 [5]

I consider the government of the United States as interdicted [prohibited] by the Constitution from intermeddling with religious institutions . . . or exercises. Letter to Samuel Millar, 1808 [6]

WallBuilders - Issues and Articles - The Separation of Church and State

By the same token, Jefferson was responsible for using the halls of Congress for church services:

It is no exaggeration to say that on Sundays in Washington during the administrations of Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809) and of James Madison (1809-1817) the state became the church. Within a year of his inauguration, Jefferson began attending church services in the House of Representatives. Madison followed Jefferson's example, although unlike Jefferson, who rode on horseback to church in the Capitol, Madison came in a coach and four. Worship services in the House--a practice that continued until after the Civil War--were acceptable to Jefferson because they were nondiscriminatory and voluntary. Preachers of every Protestant denomination appeared. (Catholic priests began officiating in 1826.) As early as January 1806 a female evangelist, Dorothy Ripley, delivered a camp meeting-style exhortation in the House to Jefferson, Vice President Aaron Burr, and a "crowded audience." Throughout his administration Jefferson permitted church services in executive branch buildings. The Gospel was also preached in the Supreme Court chambers.

Religion and the Federal Government Part 2 - Religion and the Founding of the American Republic Exhibitions Library of Congress

The first Congress sponsored the first Bible printed in the USA:

Congress appointed chaplains for itself and the armed forces, sponsored the publication of a Bible, imposed Christian morality on the armed forces, and granted public lands to promote Christianity among the Indians. National days of thanksgiving and of "humiliation, fasting, and prayer" were proclaimed by Congress at least twice a year throughout the war. Congress was guided by "covenant theology," a Reformation doctrine especially dear to New England Puritans, which held that God bound himself in an agreement with a nation and its people. This agreement stipulated that they "should be prosperous or afflicted, according as their general Obedience or Disobedience thereto appears." Wars and revolutions were, accordingly, considered afflictions, as divine punishments for sin, from which a nation could rescue itself by repentance and reformation.

Religion and the Congress of the Confederation - Religion and the Founding of the American Republic Exhibitions Library of Congress

Are you joining PolitcalSpice in her crusade to tear down the wall of separation between church and state?

Yes or no?

As you learned earlier, Chief Justice Rehnquist stated that the Jefferson quote has been misinterpreted.

You, being an imbecile, require remediation:

Hugo Black's anti-Catholic bias, showed up in his actions on the Supreme Court:

"... Black was head of new members for the largest Klan cell in the South. New members of the KKK had to pledge their allegiance to the “eternal separation of Church and State.”... Separation was a crucial part of the KKK’s jurisprudential agenda. It was included in the Klansman’s Creed..."
http://egnorance.blogspot.com/2011/10/hugo-black-and-real-history-of-wall-of.html]

Jefferson’s wall in actuality had federal government on one side of the wall and the state government and religion on the other side. The barrier was impervious in only one direction — meaning federal government was to have no control over the religious activities inside the individual states. This was in line with Jefferson’s strict interpretation of the non-establishment clause.

Yet more flailing ignorance on your part.

The states cannot impose a state religion because that would violate the federal constitution.

Try enrolling in an adult remedial education class for social studies at your local community college, PoliticalSpice.

And the State can, in no way, impose its will upon Christianity or impair the free exercise thereof. That means that if a religious institution is opposed to abortion the State CANNOT force that institution to do anything whatsoever that goes against its tenets.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

There is no such "wall, " you uneducated dunce.

The KKKer, Hugo Black, FDR's first Supreme Court nominee, inserted it and dopes like you believe that the concept was not anathema to the view of the Founders.

1. The First Amendment (Amendment I) to the United States Constitution prohibits the making of any law respecting an establishment of religion, impeding the free exercise of religion, abridging the freedom of speech, infringing on the freedom of the press, interfering with the right to peaceably assemble or prohibiting ... First Amendment to the United States Constitution

Once again PoliticalSpice exposes her woeful ignorance of American history.

The KKKer, Hugo Black, FDR's first Supreme Court nominee, inserted it and dopes like you believe that the concept was no anathema to the view of the Founders.

Try reading Thomas Jefferson's Letter to the Danbury Baptists.

Jefferson s Letter to the Danbury Baptists June 1998 - Library of Congress Information Bulletin

Gentlemen

The affectionate sentiments of esteem and approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful and zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, & in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more and more pleasing.

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.

I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection & blessing of the common father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves & your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem.

Th Jefferson​

Jan. 1. 1802.

It was Jefferson himself who first used the phrase to describe the intent of the 1st Amendment.

Once again you have made a fool of yourself!

Jefferson recognized America as a Christian nation but didn't believe that any particular denomination should be dominant over the others. That was one of the reasons why he broke from England. He was wholly opposed to any government regulating a person's right to religion:

Jefferson understood their concern; it was also his own. In fact, he made numerous declarations about the constitutional inability of the federal government to regulate, restrict, or interfere with religious expression. For example:

[N]o power over the freedom of religion . . . [is] delegated to the United States by the Constitution. Kentucky Resolution, 1798 [3]

In matters of religion, I have considered that its free exercise is placed by the Constitution independent of the powers of the general [federal] government. Second Inaugural Address, 1805 [4]

[O]ur excellent Constitution . . . has not placed our religious rights under the power of any public functionary. Letter to the Methodist Episcopal Church, 1808 [5]

I consider the government of the United States as interdicted [prohibited] by the Constitution from intermeddling with religious institutions . . . or exercises. Letter to Samuel Millar, 1808 [6]

WallBuilders - Issues and Articles - The Separation of Church and State

By the same token, Jefferson was responsible for using the halls of Congress for church services:

It is no exaggeration to say that on Sundays in Washington during the administrations of Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809) and of James Madison (1809-1817) the state became the church. Within a year of his inauguration, Jefferson began attending church services in the House of Representatives. Madison followed Jefferson's example, although unlike Jefferson, who rode on horseback to church in the Capitol, Madison came in a coach and four. Worship services in the House--a practice that continued until after the Civil War--were acceptable to Jefferson because they were nondiscriminatory and voluntary. Preachers of every Protestant denomination appeared. (Catholic priests began officiating in 1826.) As early as January 1806 a female evangelist, Dorothy Ripley, delivered a camp meeting-style exhortation in the House to Jefferson, Vice President Aaron Burr, and a "crowded audience." Throughout his administration Jefferson permitted church services in executive branch buildings. The Gospel was also preached in the Supreme Court chambers.

Religion and the Federal Government Part 2 - Religion and the Founding of the American Republic Exhibitions Library of Congress

The first Congress sponsored the first Bible printed in the USA:

Congress appointed chaplains for itself and the armed forces, sponsored the publication of a Bible, imposed Christian morality on the armed forces, and granted public lands to promote Christianity among the Indians. National days of thanksgiving and of "humiliation, fasting, and prayer" were proclaimed by Congress at least twice a year throughout the war. Congress was guided by "covenant theology," a Reformation doctrine especially dear to New England Puritans, which held that God bound himself in an agreement with a nation and its people. This agreement stipulated that they "should be prosperous or afflicted, according as their general Obedience or Disobedience thereto appears." Wars and revolutions were, accordingly, considered afflictions, as divine punishments for sin, from which a nation could rescue itself by repentance and reformation.

Religion and the Congress of the Confederation - Religion and the Founding of the American Republic Exhibitions Library of Congress

Are you joining PoliticalSpice in her crusade to tear down the wall of separation between church and state?

Yes or no?

Never has been a separation. You and others have embraced a misconception routinely spewed forth as "truth" in America's public FOOL system. The Constitution protects religious folks from government but government can be influenced by religion.

If that is what you were taught when you were home schooled you should ask for your money back because it it utterly fallacious.

Religion doesn't get to dictate what a secular government does.

But religious people can.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Once again Don PoliticalSpice Quixote is on her futile crusade to tear down the wall of separation between church and state.

There is no such "wall, " you uneducated dunce.

The KKKer, Hugo Black, FDR's first Supreme Court nominee, inserted it and dopes like you believe that the concept was not anathema to the view of the Founders.

1. The First Amendment (Amendment I) to the United States Constitution prohibits the making of any law respecting an establishment of religion, impeding the free exercise of religion, abridging the freedom of speech, infringing on the freedom of the press, interfering with the right to peaceably assemble or prohibiting ... First Amendment to the United States Constitution

Once again PoliticalSpice exposes her woeful ignorance of American history.

The KKKer, Hugo Black, FDR's first Supreme Court nominee, inserted it and dopes like you believe that the concept was no anathema to the view of the Founders.

Try reading Thomas Jefferson's Letter to the Danbury Baptists.

Jefferson s Letter to the Danbury Baptists June 1998 - Library of Congress Information Bulletin

Gentlemen

The affectionate sentiments of esteem and approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful and zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, & in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more and more pleasing.

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.

I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection & blessing of the common father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves & your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem.

Th Jefferson​

Jan. 1. 1802.

It was Jefferson himself who first used the phrase to describe the intent of the 1st Amendment.

Once again you have made a fool of yourself!

And once again the OP exhibits her ignorance of the Constitution and its case law.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

Once again Don PoliticalSpice Quixote is on her futile crusade to tear down the wall of separation between church and state.

There is no such "wall, " you uneducated dunce.

The KKKer, Hugo Black, FDR's first Supreme Court nominee, inserted it and dopes like you believe that the concept was not anathema to the view of the Founders.

1. The First Amendment (Amendment I) to the United States Constitution prohibits the making of any law respecting an establishment of religion, impeding the free exercise of religion, abridging the freedom of speech, infringing on the freedom of the press, interfering with the right to peaceably assemble or prohibiting ... First Amendment to the United States Constitution

Once again PoliticalSpice exposes her woeful ignorance of American history.

The KKKer, Hugo Black, FDR's first Supreme Court nominee, inserted it and dopes like you believe that the concept was no anathema to the view of the Founders.

Try reading Thomas Jefferson's Letter to the Danbury Baptists.

Jefferson s Letter to the Danbury Baptists June 1998 - Library of Congress Information Bulletin

Gentlemen

The affectionate sentiments of esteem and approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful and zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, & in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more and more pleasing.

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.

I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection & blessing of the common father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves & your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem.

Th Jefferson​

Jan. 1. 1802.

It was Jefferson himself who first used the phrase to describe the intent of the 1st Amendment.

Once again you have made a fool of yourself!

And once again the OP exhibits her ignorance of the Constitution and its case law.

The Constitution and case law are two very different things. Can you guess which one is the law of the land?