The Politics of Policing

[Iceweasel]

[...]

The point here is this: We deal with dangerous, violent situations hundreds of thousands of times a day, and almost every time we resolve it without the criminal getting so much as a scratch.

[...]

I've been watching the tv "ride-along" documentary series, COPS, for quite some time now. For those who are not familiar with it, this production covers police departments, big and small, all over the U.S., by having a camera crew ride along with cops during their tour of duty. Based on what I've seen, and what anyone who cares to watch this series will see, the vast majority, I estimate about 80% or more, of the activity American cops engage in involves petty drug offenses and domestic issues.

Any neutral individual who is willing to invest the time in following the COPS series will soon come to realize that no less then 50% of the activity American cops engage in is absolutely unnecessary and much of it is counterproductive. Very little of it comes close to the kind of hyper-macho, melodramatic, nonsensical police fiction served to the American tv viewer on a daily basis.

But don't take my word for it -- watch COPS.

And there's your problem. You get your world view from TV. I've been a member on a LEO board for ten years and they ALL say the show is not a reflection of their daily jobs. It's made for TV and there's a lot of editing. Nor do you know what the results would be if a domestic situation wasn't handled. Someone could end up dead. Then it's the cops fault.

 

[MaryL]

As an officer, it is frustrating to see my profession under attack. There are many things about what cops do that people just don't understand. Of course, politicians don't give a shit about facts, or educating themselves. Sadly, neither does much of the public.

The mental health and drug and alcohol abuse we deal with thousands, hundreds of thousands of times a day would make your head spin. You only understand if you have done this job. The "system" continuously lets repeat violent offenders back out on the street because keeping them in jail "costs too much money." So who deals with them? We do. Over and over. Multiple times a day we each deal with situations that would make the majority of the public shit themselves. Then, the next day, we do it again.

The point here is this: We deal with dangerous, violent situations hundreds of thousands of times a day, and almost every time we resolve it without the criminal getting so much as a scratch. Do you hear about when we use the less lethal or taser on the armed suspect and avoid shooting them? Nope. When we use only verbal to talk the suspect down? No. When we physically fight with the person, often resulting in injury to us, does that make the news? No. To the uneducated, a traffic stop or some other "routine" call may not seem like a big deal. What you don't know is ANY traffic stop, ANY call can turn deadly. I know, I was shot during one of those "routine" stops. Why? Because the repeat criminal had a couple felony charges coming and decided he wasn't going back to prison, where he never should have been let out of in the first place. I almost didn't go home that night to my wife and children.

When cops do wrong, we need to be held accountable. We need to be held to a high standard. Absolutely. However, remember all the good things we do every day to keep our communities safe, because THAT is why we do this job. We are protectors.

I love cops, but that isolated fraternity goes so far. Brother in law was a cop. But I have seen cops get abusive and pull guns on a mere ghost of a shadow of a whim. There are some bad people that never should have been made cops out there policing. I fear by and large black males because they actually pose a larger threat to each other and the rest of us. We all need to get on the same page here and recognize that. bad cops a trivial problem here, poor black males are more profound issue and we need to recognize it, discard racism.

 

[TexM3]

We need less laws. No harm caused to person or property = no laws broken. The same standard for a civil case should be applied to criminal cases. Policing over the years has devolved into revenue generation for the state.

 

[Iceweasel]

We need less laws. No harm caused to person or property = no laws broken. The same standard for a civil case should be applied to criminal cases. Policing over the years has devolved into revenue generation for the state.

Whoa! In a civil case you only need to tilt the scales. 51/49 makes the call. You want someone accused of murder to be tried like that? Cops don't make the laws so you need to lobby the legislators. But your argument is usually made by drug legalization types and not all agree there are no victims.

 

[TexM3]

We need less laws. No harm caused to person or property = no laws broken. The same standard for a civil case should be applied to criminal cases. Policing over the years has devolved into revenue generation for the state.

Whoa! In a civil case you only need to tilt the scales. 51/49 makes the call. You want someone accused of murder to be tried like that? Cops don't make the laws so you need to lobby the legislators. But your argument is usually made by drug legalization types and not all agree there are no victims.

Unanimous jury's and reasonable doubt would still apply.

 

[Iceweasel]

We need less laws. No harm caused to person or property = no laws broken. The same standard for a civil case should be applied to criminal cases. Policing over the years has devolved into revenue generation for the state.

Whoa! In a civil case you only need to tilt the scales. 51/49 makes the call. You want someone accused of murder to be tried like that? Cops don't make the laws so you need to lobby the legislators. But your argument is usually made by drug legalization types and not all agree there are no victims.

Unanimous jury's and reasonable doubt would still apply.

Then you said it wrong.

 

[TexM3]

We need less laws. No harm caused to person or property = no laws broken. The same standard for a civil case should be applied to criminal cases. Policing over the years has devolved into revenue generation for the state.

Whoa! In a civil case you only need to tilt the scales. 51/49 makes the call. You want someone accused of murder to be tried like that? Cops don't make the laws so you need to lobby the legislators. But your argument is usually made by drug legalization types and not all agree there are no victims.

Unanimous jury's and reasonable doubt would still apply.

Then you said it wrong.

Yes I did say it wrong ...a similar standard should apply.

 

[Iceweasel]

We need less laws. No harm caused to person or property = no laws broken. The same standard for a civil case should be applied to criminal cases. Policing over the years has devolved into revenue generation for the state.

Whoa! In a civil case you only need to tilt the scales. 51/49 makes the call. You want someone accused of murder to be tried like that? Cops don't make the laws so you need to lobby the legislators. But your argument is usually made by drug legalization types and not all agree there are no victims.

Unanimous jury's and reasonable doubt would still apply.

Then you said it wrong.

Yes I did...a similar standard should apply.

Yes you did say it wrong?

 

[Trump.Stamped]

As an officer, it is frustrating to see my profession under attack. There are many things about what cops do that people just don't understand. Of course, politicians don't give a shit about facts, or educating themselves. Sadly, neither does much of the public.

The mental health and drug and alcohol abuse we deal with thousands, hundreds of thousands of times a day would make your head spin. You only understand if you have done this job. The "system" continuously lets repeat violent offenders back out on the street because keeping them in jail "costs too much money." So who deals with them? We do. Over and over. Multiple times a day we each deal with situations that would make the majority of the public shit themselves. Then, the next day, we do it again.

The point here is this: We deal with dangerous, violent situations hundreds of thousands of times a day, and almost every time we resolve it without the criminal getting so much as a scratch. Do you hear about when we use the less lethal or taser on the armed suspect and avoid shooting them? Nope. When we use only verbal to talk the suspect down? No. When we physically fight with the person, often resulting in injury to us, does that make the news? No. To the uneducated, a traffic stop or some other "routine" call may not seem like a big deal. What you don't know is ANY traffic stop, ANY call can turn deadly. I know, I was shot during one of those "routine" stops. Why? Because the repeat criminal had a couple felony charges coming and decided he wasn't going back to prison, where he never should have been let out of in the first place. I almost didn't go home that night to my wife and children.

When cops do wrong, we need to be held accountable. We need to be held to a high standard. Absolutely. However, remember all the good things we do every day to keep our communities safe, because THAT is why we do this job. We are protectors.

I love cops, but that isolated fraternity goes so far. Brother in law was a cop. But I have seen cops get abusive and pull guns on a mere ghost of a shadow of a whim. There are some bad people that never should have been made cops out there policing. I fear by and large black males because they actually pose a larger threat to each other and the rest of us. We all need to get on the same page here and recognize that. bad cops a trivial problem here, poor black males are more profound issue and we need to recognize it, discard racism.

Yep, there are cops that shouldn't be cops. No doubt. I think what you are saying also is that blacks who become cops are more dangerous?

 

[TexM3]

Get rid of all city police departments and increase the number of county sheriffs where needed? At lest the sheriff is more accountable to the public. And will less laws obviously we would need police.

Perhaps change the MO to more passive policeing.

 

[Trump.Stamped]

We need less laws. No harm caused to person or property = no laws broken. The same standard for a civil case should be applied to criminal cases. Policing over the years has devolved into revenue generation for the state.

Get rid of all city police departments and increase the number of county sheriffs where needed? At lest the sheriff is more accountable to the public. And will less laws obviously we would need police.

Perhaps change the MO to more passive policeing.

lol...more passive policing...thats exactly what is happening. The result is officers afraid to use force, and it gets them hurt. No, you just need to make sure the right people are doing the job and they have the right training. Police Chiefs are just as accountable, maybe even more so, because they are appointed by the Mayor, who is elected. Its actually easier to get rid of a Chief - fire - than a Sheriff, who has to be voted out.

 

[leftwinger]

The media is no friend to Police. Recently Ferguson, BALT, Castile, LA they whipped up riots. How many Police assassinated over these false stories? 10 last week?

They should be held responsible, jailed & fined. The guy un STL should be locked up (burn this MoFo down).

Tough job. Police seem right 99.99%, close enough. Leave them alone or as the guy warned.....it will get worse.

Fork nbc cbs mslsd npr fix cnn.......they cause mayhem. Then real story comes out...then they off to next hype.

 

[leftwinger]

As an officer, it is frustrating to see my profession under attack. There are many things about what cops do that people just don't understand. Of course, politicians don't give a shit about facts, or educating themselves. Sadly, neither does much of the public.

The mental health and drug and alcohol abuse we deal with thousands, hundreds of thousands of times a day would make your head spin. You only understand if you have done this job. The "system" continuously lets repeat violent offenders back out on the street because keeping them in jail "costs too much money." So who deals with them? We do. Over and over. Multiple times a day we each deal with situations that would make the majority of the public shit themselves. Then, the next day, we do it again.

The point here is this: We deal with dangerous, violent situations hundreds of thousands of times a day, and almost every time we resolve it without the criminal getting so much as a scratch. Do you hear about when we use the less lethal or taser on the armed suspect and avoid shooting them? Nope. When we use only verbal to talk the suspect down? No. When we physically fight with the person, often resulting in injury to us, does that make the news? No. To the uneducated, a traffic stop or some other "routine" call may not seem like a big deal. What you don't know is ANY traffic stop, ANY call can turn deadly. I know, I was shot during one of those "routine" stops. Why? Because the repeat criminal had a couple felony charges coming and decided he wasn't going back to prison, where he never should have been let out of in the first place. I almost didn't go home that night to my wife and children.

When cops do wrong, we need to be held accountable. We need to be held to a high standard. Absolutely. However, remember all the good things we do every day to keep our communities safe, because THAT is why we do this job. We are protectors.

I love cops, but that isolated fraternity goes so far. Brother in law was a cop. But I have seen cops get abusive and pull guns on a mere ghost of a shadow of a whim. There are some bad people that never should have been made cops out there policing. I fear by and large black males because they actually pose a larger threat to each other and the rest of us. We all need to get on the same page here and recognize that. bad cops a trivial problem here, poor black males are more profound issue and we need to recognize it, discard racism.

I suppose all we can do is hope good MGT and co-workers ckean it up. If the "PC" allows it.......

 

[TexM3]

We need less laws. No harm caused to person or property = no laws broken. The same standard for a civil case should be applied to criminal cases. Policing over the years has devolved into revenue generation for the state.

Get rid of all city police departments and increase the number of county sheriffs where needed? At lest the sheriff is more accountable to the public. And will less laws obviously we would need police.

Perhaps change the MO to more passive policeing.

lol...more passive policing...thats exactly what is happening. The result is officers afraid to use force, and it gets them hurt. No, you just need to make sure the right people are doing the job and they have the right training. Police Chiefs are just as accountable, maybe even more so, because they are appointed by the Mayor, who is elected. Its actually easier to get rid of a Chief - fire - than a Sheriff, who has to be voted out.

We'll have to agree to disagree that the police are more passive then 20 or so years ago.

Less laws less need to interact with the public.

I believe you could recall the sheriff if the public lost confidence.

Lastly, and this is the most important part, stop resisting detainment and you most likely will live.

 

[Trump.Stamped]

We need less laws. No harm caused to person or property = no laws broken. The same standard for a civil case should be applied to criminal cases. Policing over the years has devolved into revenue generation for the state.

Get rid of all city police departments and increase the number of county sheriffs where needed? At lest the sheriff is more accountable to the public. And will less laws obviously we would need police.

Perhaps change the MO to more passive policeing.

lol...more passive policing...thats exactly what is happening. The result is officers afraid to use force, and it gets them hurt. No, you just need to make sure the right people are doing the job and they have the right training. Police Chiefs are just as accountable, maybe even more so, because they are appointed by the Mayor, who is elected. Its actually easier to get rid of a Chief - fire - than a Sheriff, who has to be voted out.

We'll have to agree to disagree that the police are more passive then 20 or so years ago.

Less laws less need to interact with the public.

I believe you could recall the sheriff if the public lost confidence.

Not easy to recall an elected official. At all.

Exactly which laws do you want to get rid of (not arguing - we do have too many laws)? I'm curious.

 

[leftwinger]

[...]

These rabid liberals in this thread ignore the whole thing and continued to attack the Police w/o Mention of this horrible Beast.

[...]

You seem to believe the police are generally beyond reproach and should not be criticized. But you are not unique in that regard. Rather you are a stereotypical example of the authoritarian personality, a condition which affects a broad category of Americans whose favorite form of entertainment is fictional police drama, which is by far the most popular genre of contemporary television and accounts for an enormously profitable sponsor base. The sample fact is authoritarians (like you) preconsciously worship the most crystallized form of authority known to contemporary Americans -- the police.

If you doubt what saying you might find it an interesting pastime to start a list of every police movie or tv drama you can remember. If you're old enough you can start with Dragnet, It won't take long for you to realize that a substantial percentage of Americans have a secret crush on cops and all of the melodramatic fiction associated with them in their fantasies.

Thankyou, I remember way back to ...... a lot. They do the best they can. There was nit 330mil back then with tons of heroin coke etc. 30mil illegals running around too, a large percentage working crime. Inner city problems since 70% welfare baby boom running like wild animals daily. Was not that bad way back.

 

[TexM3]

We need less laws. No harm caused to person or property = no laws broken. The same standard for a civil case should be applied to criminal cases. Policing over the years has devolved into revenue generation for the state.

Get rid of all city police departments and increase the number of county sheriffs where needed? At lest the sheriff is more accountable to the public. And will less laws obviously we would need police.

Perhaps change the MO to more passive policeing.

lol...more passive policing...thats exactly what is happening. The result is officers afraid to use force, and it gets them hurt. No, you just need to make sure the right people are doing the job and they have the right training. Police Chiefs are just as accountable, maybe even more so, because they are appointed by the Mayor, who is elected. Its actually easier to get rid of a Chief - fire - than a Sheriff, who has to be voted out.

We'll have to agree to disagree that the police are more passive then 20 or so years ago.

Less laws less need to interact with the public.

I believe you could recall the sheriff if the public lost confidence.

Not easy to recall an elected official. At all.

Exactly which laws do you want to get rid of (not arguing - we do have too many laws)? I'm curious.

End probation and the bulk of he issues would go away IMVHO. Move away from law enforcement back to peace officer.

I'd get rid of the dwi laws, instead focus on driving while impaired and maintaining lane disilplen (whatever that impairment may be, age, putting on makeup, texting, ect ). No more pre crime crap.

Get rid of all the unconstitutional gun laws.

 

[Iceweasel]

We need less laws. No harm caused to person or property = no laws broken. The same standard for a civil case should be applied to criminal cases. Policing over the years has devolved into revenue generation for the state.

Get rid of all city police departments and increase the number of county sheriffs where needed? At lest the sheriff is more accountable to the public. And will less laws obviously we would need police.

Perhaps change the MO to more passive policeing.

lol...more passive policing...thats exactly what is happening. The result is officers afraid to use force, and it gets them hurt. No, you just need to make sure the right people are doing the job and they have the right training. Police Chiefs are just as accountable, maybe even more so, because they are appointed by the Mayor, who is elected. Its actually easier to get rid of a Chief - fire - than a Sheriff, who has to be voted out.

We'll have to agree to disagree that the police are more passive then 20 or so years ago.

Less laws less need to interact with the public.

I believe you could recall the sheriff if the public lost confidence.

Not easy to recall an elected official. At all.

Exactly which laws do you want to get rid of (not arguing - we do have too many laws)? I'm curious.

End probation and the bulk of he issues would go away IMVHO. Move away from law enforcement back to peace officer.

I'd get rid of the dwi laws, instead focus on driving while impaired and maintaining lane disilplen (whatever that impairment may be, age, putting on makeup, texting, ect ). No more pre crime crap.

Get rid of all the unconstitutional gun laws.

Ah, I knew it. Prohibition. Get rid of dwi laws. Wow.

Your problem is obvious.

 

[TexM3]

We need less laws. No harm caused to person or property = no laws broken. The same standard for a civil case should be applied to criminal cases. Policing over the years has devolved into revenue generation for the state.

Get rid of all city police departments and increase the number of county sheriffs where needed? At lest the sheriff is more accountable to the public. And will less laws obviously we would need police.

Perhaps change the MO to more passive policeing.

lol...more passive policing...thats exactly what is happening. The result is officers afraid to use force, and it gets them hurt. No, you just need to make sure the right people are doing the job and they have the right training. Police Chiefs are just as accountable, maybe even more so, because they are appointed by the Mayor, who is elected. Its actually easier to get rid of a Chief - fire - than a Sheriff, who has to be voted out.

We'll have to agree to disagree that the police are more passive then 20 or so years ago.

Less laws less need to interact with the public.

I believe you could recall the sheriff if the public lost confidence.

Not easy to recall an elected official. At all.

Exactly which laws do you want to get rid of (not arguing - we do have too many laws)? I'm curious.

End probation and the bulk of he issues would go away IMVHO. Move away from law enforcement back to peace officer.

I'd get rid of the dwi laws, instead focus on driving while impaired and maintaining lane disilplen (whatever that impairment may be, age, putting on makeup, texting, ect ). No more pre crime crap.

Get rid of all the unconstitutional gun laws.

Ah, I knew it. Prohibition. Get rid of dwi laws. Wow.

Your problem is obvious.

I choose personal responsibility and Liberty over a bureaucratic police state.

If that's my problem, what's yours?

 

[Trump.Stamped]

lol...more passive policing...thats exactly what is happening. The result is officers afraid to use force, and it gets them hurt. No, you just need to make sure the right people are doing the job and they have the right training. Police Chiefs are just as accountable, maybe even more so, because they are appointed by the Mayor, who is elected. Its actually easier to get rid of a Chief - fire - than a Sheriff, who has to be voted out.

We'll have to agree to disagree that the police are more passive then 20 or so years ago.

Less laws less need to interact with the public.

I believe you could recall the sheriff if the public lost confidence.

Not easy to recall an elected official. At all.

Exactly which laws do you want to get rid of (not arguing - we do have too many laws)? I'm curious.

End probation and the bulk of he issues would go away IMVHO. Move away from law enforcement back to peace officer.

I'd get rid of the dwi laws, instead focus on driving while impaired and maintaining lane disilplen (whatever that impairment may be, age, putting on makeup, texting, ect ). No more pre crime crap.

Get rid of all the unconstitutional gun laws.

Ah, I knew it. Prohibition. Get rid of dwi laws. Wow.

Your problem is obvious.

I choose personal responsibility and Liberty over a bureaucratic police state.

If that's my problem, what's yours?

I'm sure "personal responsibility" will keep people from driving drunk. Yep.

Considering drunk drivers kill more people than people with guns, what do you think would happen to that number if you made driving drunk legal???